PM: Debunking the 9/11 myths

shimmeh · 03-23-2006, 04:11 PM

I command ye to make no more stupid ass threads about the "9/11 conspiracy"

http://www.popularmechanics.com/scie...tml?page=1&c=y

And before you post your "www.bushislies9/11conspiracy.net" bullshiet, check to make sure its credibility can stack up with the following sources PM used for its article.

Air Crash Analysis
Cleveland Center regional air traffic control

Bill Crowley special agent, FBI

Ron Dokell president, Demolition Consultants

Richard Gazarik staff writer, Pittsburgh Tribune-Review

Yates Gladwell pilot, VF Corp.

Michael K. Hynes, Ed.D.,
ATP, CFI, A&P/IA president, Hynes Aviation Services; expert, aviation crashes

Ed Jacoby Jr. director,
New York State Emergency Management Office (Ret.); chairman, New York State Disaster Preparedness Commission (Ret.)

Johnstown-Cambria County Airport Authority

Cindi Lash staff writer, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Matthew McCormick manager, survival factors division, National Transportation Safety Board (Ret.)

Wallace Miller coroner, Somerset County, PA

Robert Nagan meteorological technician, Climate Services Branch, National Climatic Data Center

Dave Newell director, aviation and travel, VF Corp.

James O’Toole politics editor, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Pennsylvania State Police Public Information Office

Jeff Pillets senior writer,
The Record, Hackensack, NJ

Jeff Rienbold director, Flight 93 National Memorial, National Park Service

Dennis Roddy staff writer, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Master Sgt. David Somdahl public affairs officer,
119th Wing, North Dakota
Air National Guard

Mark Stahl photographer; eyewitness, United Airlines Flight 93 crash scene

Air Defense
Lt. Col. Skip Aldous (Ret.) squadron commander,
U.S. Air Force

Tech. Sgt. Laura Bosco public affairs officer,
Tyndall Air Force Base

Boston Center regional air traffic control

Laura Brown spokeswoman,
Federal Aviation Administration

Todd Curtis, Ph.D. founder, Airsafe.com; president, Airsafe.com Foundation

Keith Halloway public affairs officer, National Transportation Safety Board

Ted Lopatkiewicz director, public affairs, National Transportation Safety Board

Maj. Douglas Martin public affairs officer,
North American Aerospace Defense Command

Lt. Herbert McConnell public affairs officer,
Andrews AFB

Michael Perini public affairs officer, North American Aerospace Defense Command

John Pike director, GlobalSecurity.org

Hank Price spokesman, Federal
Aviation Administration

Warren Robak RAND Corp.

Bill Shumann spokesman,
Federal Aviation Administration

Louis Walsh public affairs officer, Eglin AFB

Chris Yates aviation security editor, analyst, Jane’s Transport

Aviation
Fred E.C. Culick, Ph.D., S.B., S.M. professor of aeronautics, California Institute of Technology

Robert Everdeen public affairs, Northrop Grumman

Clint Oster professor of public and environmental affairs, Indiana University; aviation safety expert

Capt. Bill Scott (Ret. USAF) Rocky Mountain bureau chief, Aviation Week
Bill Uher News Media Office, NASA Langley Research Center

Col. Ed Walby (Ret. USAF)
director, business development, HALE Systems Enterprise, Unmanned Systems, Northrop Grumman

Image Analysis
William F. Baker member, FEMA Probe Team; partner, Skidmore, Owings, Merrill

W. Gene Corley, Ph.D., P.E., S.E. senior vice president, CTL Group; director,
FEMA Probe Team

Bill Daly senior vice president, Control Risks Group

Steve Douglass image analysis consultant, Aviation Week

Thomas R. Edwards, Ph.D. founder, TREC; video forensics expert.

Ronald Greeley, Ph.D. professor of geology, Arizona State University

Rob Howard freelance photographer; WTC eyewitness

Robert L. Parker, Ph.D. professor of geophysics,
University of California, San Diego

Structural Engineering / Building Collapse
Farid Alfawakhiri, Ph.D. senior engineer, American Institute of Steel Construction

David Biggs, P.E. structural engineer, Ryan-Biggs Associates; member, ASCE team for FEMA report

Robert Clarke structural engineer, Controlled Demolitions Group Ltd.

Glenn Corbett technical editor, Fire Engineering; member, NIST advisory committee

Vincent Dunn deputy fire chief (Ret.), FDNY; author, The Collapse Of Burning Buildings: A Guide To Fireground Safety

John Fisher, Ph.D. professor of civil engineering, Lehigh University; professor emeritus, Center for Advanced Technology; member, FEMA Probe Team

Ken Hays executive vice president, Masonry Arts

Christoph Hoffmann, Ph.D. professor of computer science, Purdue University; project director, September 11 Pentagon Attack Simulations Using LS-Dyna, Purdue University

Allyn E. Kilsheimer, P.E.
CEO, KCE Structural Engineers PC; chief structural engineer, Phoenix project; expert in blast recovery, concrete structures, emergency response

Won-Young Kim, Ph.D. seismologist, Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory, Columbia University

William Koplitz photo desk manager, FEMA

John Labriola freelance photographer, WTC survivor

Arthur Lerner-Lam, Ph.D. seismologist; director,
Earth Institute, Center for Hazards and Risk Research, Columbia University

James Quintiere, Ph.D. professor of engineering, University of Maryland member, NIST advisory committee

Steve Riskus freelance photographer; eyewitness, Pentagon crash

Van Romero, Ph.D. vice president, New Mexico Institute of Mining and Technology

Christine Shaffer spokesperson, Viracon

Mete Sozen, Ph.D., S.E. Kettelhut Distinguished Professor of Structural Engineering, Purdue University; member, Pentagon Building Performance Report; project conception, September 11 Pentagon Attack Simulations Using LS-Dyna, Purdue University

Shyam Sunder, Sc.D.
acting deputy director, lead investigator, Building and Fire Research Laboratory, National Institute of Standards and Technology

Mary Tobin science writer, media relations, Earth Institute, Columbia University

Forman Williams, Ph.D. professor of engineering, physics, combustion, University of California,
San Diego; member, advisory committee, National Institute of Standards and Technology

AlphaMaleness · 03-23-2006, 04:17 PM

Thank you for posting this.

SHut it liberals

SikoJames · 03-23-2006, 04:23 PM

Debunking Popular Mechanics

http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/pm/

http://www.serendipity.li/wot/pop_me..._mechanics.htm

The article in Popular Mechanics was authored by Benjamin Chertoff. Does the name sound familiar? Yes, because his cousin Michael is the head of Homeland Security.

shimmeh · 03-23-2006, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SikoJames

http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/pm/

http://www.serendipity.li/wot/pop_me..._mechanics.htm

Wow, Weak Credibility!

Diana Ball · 03-23-2006, 04:26 PM

PM does a good job debunking the myths that I or many other people dont even believe in, the so-called "red herrings" of 9/11.

What is does not debunk and no one can debunk are the many facts that are undeniable about various events surrounding 9/11 that point to an American conspiracy, and the government's COMPLETE LACK of response to all of these facts and questions- and numerous incidents of them delibately being covered up by the 9/11 commission and other governmental entities including the CIA, FBI, and the White House.

Krunk Fu · 03-23-2006, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SikoJames

Debunking Popular Mechanics

http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/pm/

http://www.serendipity.li/wot/pop_me..._mechanics.htm

The article in Popular Mechanics was authored by Benjamin Chertoff. Does the name sound familiar? Yes, because his cousin Michael is the head of Homeland Security.

LOL, so if he is a republican, he loses all credibility... Does that mean your sites should be disregarded as well since they are by liberals? I guess the green party should decide the truth, lol.

SikoJames · 03-23-2006, 04:28 PM

http://www.prisonplanet.tv/audio/090305alexresponds.htm

Audio of Alex Jones ripping them apart.

shimmeh · 03-23-2006, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diana Ball

PM does a good job debunking the myths that I or many other people dont even believe in, the so-called "red herrings" of 9/11.

What is does not debunk and no one can debunk are the many facts that are undeniable about various events surrounding 9/11 that point to an American conspiracy, and the government's COMPLETE LACK of response to all of these facts and questions- and numerous incidents of them delibately being covered up by the 9/11 commission and other governmental entities including the CIA, FBI, and the White House.

Your right, and I didn't post this to contradict your points. I posted it to contradict the other retardeds who are going 'ohh yeah controlled demolition, I play video games yeah thats definately a missle, oh yeah www.socomIII.com/9/11conspiracy.com said so, it must be true!'

Diana Ball · 03-23-2006, 04:30 PM

Scholars for 9/11 Truth

Website:
http://www.st911.org/

The website provides articles and peer-reviewed research papers describing the real conspiracy behind 9/11. The website is membered by a very considerable number of scholarly individuals.

"Who are we?

Quote:

Scholars for 9/11 Truth" (S9/11T) is a non-partisan association of faculty, students, and scholars, in fields as diverse as history, science, military affairs, psychology, and philosophy, dedicated to exposing falsehoods and to revealing truths behind 9/11.

The members of S9/11T are encouraged to take an active role by devoting themselves to reporting the results of research on 9/11 to the nation and the world by means of lectures, articles, and other venues.

S9/11T members are convinced their research proves the current administration has been dishonest about what happened in New York and Washington, D.C.

These experts contend that books and articles by members and other associates have established that the World Trade Center was almost certainly brought down by controlled demolitions and that the available relevant evidence casts grave doubt on the government's official story about the attack on the Pentagon.

They believe that the government not only permitted 9/11 to occur but may even have orchestrated these events to facilitate its political agenda.
S9/11T encourages its members to vigorously express their concerns on this score through lectures, conferences, symposia, articles, and books as well as other access routes that publicize their findings.

Founded by professors Jim Fetzer and Steven Jones, S9/11T is devoted to applying the principles of scientific reasoning to the available evidence, "letting the chips fall where they may".

Currently, S9/11T has four categories of members: full members (FM), who have or have had academic appointments or the equivalent; associate members (AM), who have backgrounds and interests relevant to 9/11 research; and student members (SM), who are concerned about these issues and want to pursue them. The special category of society associate (SA) exists for others who wish to publicly support the association.

[quote]

shimmeh · 03-23-2006, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SikoJames

http://www.prisonplanet.tv/audio/090305alexresponds.htm

Audio of Alex Jones ripping them apart.

Wow, Weak Credibility

(I think I'm going to be saying that an awful lot, because they can't come up with anything credible)

Diana Ball · 03-23-2006, 04:32 PM

http://www.st911.org/

Quote:

The presently enrolled members of S9/11T are as follows:

Full Members

Kevin Barrett (FM)
Folklore, UW-Madison; Director, Khidria, Inc.; Founding Member, Muslim-Jewish-Christian Alliance for 9/11 Truth

Tracy Blevins (FM)
Bioengineering, Rice University

Robert M. Bowman (FM)
Former Director of the U.S. "Star Wars" Space Defense Program in both Republican and Democratic administrations, and a former Air Force Lieutenant Colonel with 101 combat missions

Clare Brandabur (FM)
Assistant professor of English Literature at Dogus University in Istanbul

Michiel Brumsen (FM)
Philosophy, Engineering ethics

Andreas von Buelow (FM)
Former assistant German defense minister, director of the German Secret Service, minister for research and technology, and member of Parliament for 25 years

Harriet Cianci (FM)
Tunxis Community College, CT

William A. Cook (FM)
Professor of English, University of La Verne, Author of "Tracking Deception: Bush Mid-East Policy"

Richard Curtis (FM)
Philosophy, Seattle University

Lloyd DeMause (FM)
Director of The Institute for Psychohistory, President of the International Psychohistorical Association and Editor of The Journal of Psychohistory

Alexander L. Dent (FM)
Microbiology and Immunology, Indiana University School of Medicine

A. K. Dewdney (FM)
Mathematician, Computer Scientist, University of Western Ontario

Albert Dragstedt (FM)
Classics and Philosophy, St. Mary's College, Oakland, CA

Ted Elden (FM)
Architect, Communicator

Jeffrey Farrer (FM)
Physics/ Materials Science, BYU

James H. Fetzer (FM)
Distinguished McKnight University Professor of Philosophy at the University of Minnesota, Duluth, a former Marine Corps officer, author or editor of more than 20 books, and co-chair of S9/11T

Marcus Ford (FM)
Humanities, NAU

Ruth Frankenberg (FM)
American Studies, Cultural Studies, Author of four books

David Gabbard (FM)
Curriculum & Instruction College of Education East Carolina University

Daniele Ganser (FM)
Historian, Basel University, Switzerland

David Ray Griffin (FM)
Emeritus Professor of Philosophy of Religion & Theology, Claremont School of Theology & Claremont Graduate University, Author or editor of some 30 books, including "The New Pearl Harbor" and "The 9/11 Commission Report: Omissions and Distortions"

David Hawkins (FM)
Forensic economics, Joint-venture enterprise, Management and network design

Timothy Howells (FM)
Computer Science, Medical Software, Akademiska Sjukhuset

Brady L. Hutchison (FM)
American legal history, Constitutional history, Rice University, San Jacinto College South

Dillon K. Inouye (FM)
Instructional Psychology and Technology, Brigham Young University

Don "Four Arrows" Jacobs (FM)
Former Dean of Education, Oglala Lakota College and currently professor of educational leadership at Fielding Graduate University and at Northern Arizona University

Andrew Johnson (FM)
Physics, Computer Science, Software Engineering

Steven Jones (FM)
Professor of Physics, Brigham Young University, co-chair of S9/11T and the creator of its home page and its forum

Michael Keefer (FM)
English and theatre, University of Guelph

Stephen F. LeRoy (FM)
Professor of Economics, University of California, Santa Barbara

Richard McGinn (FM)
Associate Professor Emeritus of Linguistics and Southeast Asian Studies, Ohio University. Former chair of Linguistics (10 years) and Director of Southeast Asian Studies (4 years) at Ohio University

Robert Merrill (FM)
Literature and Humanities; Maryland Institute College of Art; Editor, Maisonneuve Press

Ted Micceri (FM)
Statistical Research, Planning and Analysis, University of South Florida

Michael Morrissey (FM)
English as a Foreign Language, University of Kassel, Germany

John McMurtry, Ph.D. (FM)
Professor of Philosophy, University Professor Emeritus Elect, University of Guelph, Fellow of the Royal Society of Canada, and the author of six books dealing with public policy issues

Raymond Munro (FM)
Professor of Theatre, Clark University

George Nelson (FM)
Colonel, USAF (retired)

Jesus Nieto (FM)
College of Education, San Diego State University

Daniel Orr (FM)
Professor Emeritus, Department of Economics, University of Illinois

Matthew Orr (FM)
Population Biology, Evolution and Ecology, University of Oregon "Is the War on Terror Fraudulent?"

Peter Phillips (FM)
Sociology Department, Sonoma State University, Global Dominance Research, www.projectcensored.org

Jean-Pierre Petit (FM)
Aeronautics, astrophysics, engineering

Diana Ralph (FM)
Associate Professor Carleton University School of Social Work. Author of Work and Madness: The Rise of Community Psychiatry

Joseph Raso (FM)
Political Science, Comparative and International Politics, State-sponsored terrorism

Paul W. Rea (FM)
Humanities, St. Mary's College, CA, Author of "Still Seeking the Truth about 9/11"

Morgan Reynolds (FM)
Texas A & M Professor Emeritus of Economics, former Chief Economist for the Department of Labor for President George W. Bush, and former Director of the Criminal Justice Center at the National Center for Policy Analysis

Karen Rice (FM)
Associate Professor, Western Washington University Libraries

David Sprintzen (FM)
Professor Emeritus of Philosophy, Long Island Progressive Coalition, Citizen Action of New York

Morgan Stack (FM)
Accounting, Finance & Information Systems, University College Cork (UCC), Ireland. Co-founder of the Irish 9/11 Truth Movement

Webster Griffin Tarpley (FM)
President, Washington Grove Institute Government-sponsored terror

Constance De Vereaux (FM)
Philosophy and political science, Program in Arts Management, Shenandoah University

Lon Waters (FM)
High performance computing Software engineering Sandia National Laboratory

Carl Weis (FM)
Associate Professor of Creative Arts, Siena College, retired

Richard Welser (FM)
Psychology, Neuropsychology, Philosophy of Science

Judy Wood (FM)
Mechanical Engineering, Clemson University

shimmeh · 03-23-2006, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diana Ball

Scholars for 9/11 Truth

Wow, Weak Credibility

Diana Ball · 03-23-2006, 04:33 PM

http://www.st911.org/

Associate Members

Sterling D. Allan (AM)
New Energy Congress, Founder, PES Network, Inc, Executive Director

James Arft (AM)
America First Party

Victoria Ashley (AM)
Architecture and physiological psychology, 911research.wtc7.net

Steve Baer (AM)
Solar energy, Manufacturing

Len Bracken (AM)
Credentialed Journalist
Graduate of GWU's Elliott School of International Affairs
Author of "Shadow Government: 9/11 and State Terror"

Jordan Brewster (AM)
Conspiracies

Fred Burks (AM)
Served for many years as a language interpreter for presidents and other dignitaries.
www.wanttoknow.info/911information

Frank Carmen (AM)
Physics Ph.D., BYU

John Cameron (AM)
American politics

Thom Clark (AM)
Registered geologist, Environmental geologist

Muhammad Columbo (AM)
Graduate Engineer electronics wide industrial experience

Rose Davis (AM)
Publisher, Indian Voices

Steve De'ak (AM)
Network professional

Kent R. Dixon (AM)
Author

Karel Donk (AM)
Multimedia and Web Design

Eric Douglas (AM)
New York City architect Chair of the Independent Peer Review Committe for the NIST WTC Reports at nistreview.org

Curtis T. Dunlap (AM)
Weather forecaster, Global Hawk technology

Bill Fikes, Jr. (AM)
U.S. Army, Website construction

Alex Floum (AM)
Attorney.

Robert Fritzius (AM)
Electrical Engineering, Radar and telecommunications

Alex L. Funk (AM)
Electronic engineering, Research and development

Patrick Gallagher (AM)
Mechanical engineer

Cathy Garger (AM)
Freelance Writer, Motivational Speaker

Michael Gass (AM)
Air Force Explosive Ordnance, Disposal Specialist, Bomb disposal technician

Kenyon Gibson (AM)
Former US Naval Intelligence, author of "Common Sense: A Study of the Bushes, the CIA and the Suspicions Regarding 9/11" (2003, in Arabic) and of "Hemp for Victory" (2006)

Gordon Ginn (AM)
Motives behind attack

Sean Glazier (AM)
Software engineering

Rick Guerard (AM)
Journeyman ironworker, Industrial maintenance

Rich Hellner (AM)
Air Traffic Controller, Air Route Traffic Control Center

Jesse Hemingway (AM)
Author of "Friendly Fire on Holy Grounds"

Eric Hermanson (AM)
Engineering Physics, Nuclear Engineering, Software Architect

James F. Holwell (AM)
Mathematics, Communication

Eric Hufschmid (AM)
Author of "Painful Questions" and "Painful Deceptions"

Debbie Johnson (AM)
Writer, Editor, Proofreader

Alan Keightley (AM)
Radio, Broadcasting

Jeff Kellogg (AM)
Policy analyst, Environmental issues

Peter Kirsh (AM)
Forensic pathologist

Robert Klassen (AM)
Editor, Freelance writer, Critical care respiratory therapy

Rebecca R. Kline (AM)
Teacher, Journalist

Paul Landis (AM)
Industrial engineering, Author of "A Real 9/11 Commission"

Spero Larres (AM)
Physics and Mathematics, Rutgers University

Frank Legge (AM)
Chemistry, Solar Track Pty Ltd., Logical Systems Consulting

Greg Lemon (AM)
Animation, Simulation, Special Effects

Stevan Douglas Looney (AM)
Attorney

Greg Lopreato (AM)
Senior Research Scientist

Regan MacBannon-Mason (AM)
Vocational rehabilitation counseling

Wayne Madsen (AM)
Investigative journalist and syndicated columnist, a former communications security analyst with NSA and a former intelligence officer in the USMC and a Senior Fellow of the Electronic Privacy Information Center

Michael Maguire (AM)
Mechanical engineering, Aeronatutical engineering, Prognostic Health Monitoring

Gene Maier (AM)
Corporate controller

Aldwin Marquis (AM)
9/11 Researcher/Activist

David Masdon (AM)
Electrical Engineering

George Marinakis (AM)
Patent attorney

Brad Mayeux (AM)
RF Engineering, 911review.org

David McGowan (AM)
Author and lecturer

Scott Meredith (AM)
Theoretical Linguistics, High technology 21 years

Peter Meyer (AM)
Computational physics, computer programmer, software developer, creator of the Serendipity web site (www.serendipity.li) and of the Hermetic Systems web site (www.hermetic.ch)

Dennis "galen" Mitrzyk (AM)
Physics and math, Business administration

Aidan Monaghan (AM)
Electronics engineering,
www.explosive911analysis.com

Robert Moore (AM)
Attorney, Member, Connecticut Pro Bono Network

Jeff Moskin (AM)
Private pilot, Electronics engineer, Certified flight instructor

Nicholas Newton (AM)
Astrophysics, Simulation Models

Ralph Omholt (AM)
Technical writer

Don Paul (AM)
Author of "9/11:Facing Our Fascist State" (2002) and co-author with Jim Hoffman of "9/11: Great Crimes, a Greater Cover-up" (2003) and "Waking Up from Our Nightmare: The 9/11/01 Crimes in New York City" (2004)

Tom Pinto (AM)
Information systems analyst

Joe Plummer (AM)
http://StopTheLie.com

Chris Poate (AM)
Carpenter, Contractor, Cabinetmaker

Michael Provost (AM)
Independent film maker

Carter W. Rae (AM)
Biology, Chemistry, Dentistry

Paul Robins (AM)
Electronics, Aerospace products

Gordon Ross (AM)
Mechanical engineering, Production engineering

Kevin Ryan (AM)
Former Site Manager for Environmental Health Laboratories, a division of Underwriters Laboratories

Nila Sagedevan (AM)
Pilot, Aeronautical engineer

E. Martin Schotz (AM)
Psychiatrist, Citizen Historian

Dave Short (AM)
Volunteer fireman, Emergency medical technician

Rick Siegel (AM)
www.911eyewitness.com
www.911eyewitness.com/truth

Jimmy Smith (AM)
Communications Engineering

Leonard Spencer (AM)
Twin Towers Attack, The Pentagon Attack, www.serendipity.li

Deanna Spingola (AM)
Author/Writer, Renew America, News with Views

Glenn Stanish (AM)
Airline Pilot, Air Line Pilots Association (ALPA), Allied Pilots Association (APA)

Stephen M. St. John (AM)
Sole Author An Eight Part Peace Proposal for Greater Jerusalem

Harry Stottle (AM)
Philosopher, Author, Computer Consultant, Inventor. IT Director of the Codel Project. Specialist in authentication and related issues.

Soren Stoutner (AM)
Computer Consulting, System Administrator, Technology Specialist

Coco Tralla (AM)
Writer, Speaker, Publisher, Distributor

Diane Verkler (AM)
Art director, Former prosecutor, Background in law

H. Chris Videll (AM)
Accountant, Financial analyst

Brad Waddell (AM)
DVD producer, Question911.com

Jack White (AM)
Photoanalyst

Edgar Williams (AM)
Statistics, Computer Science, Database Management

Larry Winfrey (AM)
Network engineer

Ian Woods (AM)
Publisher and Editor of Global Outlook (the Magazine of 9/11 Truth); president of S.I.F.T. - Skeptics Inquiry For Truth (aka 911inquiry.org)

[/quote]

Diana Ball · 03-23-2006, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shimmeh

Wow, Weak Credibility

Yeah, take a look at the members. Definately a "credible" source. But the only thing credible to Shimmeh is that which writes about what he wants to believe. I read it all and judge from that.

Diana Ball · 03-23-2006, 04:37 PM

Yes, those are more credible than Chertoff.

How about Kevin Ryan? Is he credible?

http://www.septembereleventh.org/new...11-11-ryan.php

Quote:

The collapse of the WTC
by Kevin Ryan
Underwriters Laboratories
Thursday, Nov 11, 2004

The following letter was sent today by Kevin Ryan of Underwriters Laboratories http://www.ul.com to Frank Gayle of the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) http://www.nist.gov. Underwriters Laboratories is the company that certified the steel componets used in the constuction of the World Trade Center towers. The information in this letter is of great importance.

Dr. Gayle,

Having recently reviewed your team's report of 10/19/04, I felt the need to contact you directly.

As I'm sure you know, the company I work for certified the steel components used in the construction of the WTC buildings. In requesting information from both our CEO and Fire Protection business manager last year, I learned that they did not agree on the essential aspects of the story, except for one thing - that the samples we certified met all requirements. They suggested we all be patient and understand that UL was working with your team, and that tests would continue through this year. I'm aware of UL's attempts to help, including performing tests on models of the floor assemblies. But the results of these tests appear to indicate that the buildings should have easily withstood the thermal stress caused by pools of burning jet fuel.

There continues to be a number of "experts" making public claims about how the WTC buildings fell. One such person, Dr. Hyman Brown from the WTC construction crew, claims that the buildings collapsed due to fires at 2000F melting the steel (1). He states "What caused the building to collapse is the airplane fuel…burning at 2,000 degrees Fahrenheit. The steel in that five-floor area melts." Additionally, the newspaper that quotes him says "Just-released preliminary findings from a National Institute of Standards and Technology study of the World Trade Center collapse support Brown’s theory."

We know that the steel components were certified to ASTM E119. The time temperature curves for this standard require the samples to be exposed to temperatures around 2000F for several hours. And as we all agree, the steel applied met those specifications. Additionally, I think we can all agree that even un-fireproofed steel will not melt until reaching red-hot temperatures of nearly 3000F (2). Why Dr. Brown would imply that 2000F would melt the high-grade steel used in those buildings makes no sense at all.

The results of your recently published metallurgical tests seem to clear things up (3), and support your team's August 2003 update as detailed by the Associated Press (4), in which you were ready to "rule out weak steel as a contributing factor in the collapse." The evaluation of paint deformation and spheroidization seem very straightforward, and you noted that the samples available were adequate for the investigation. Your comments suggest that the steel was probably exposed to temperatures of only about 500F (250C), which is what one might expect from a thermodynamic analysis of the situation.

However the summary of the new NIST report seems to ignore your findings, as it suggests that these low temperatures caused exposed bits of the building’s steel core to "soften and buckle." (5) Additionally this summary states that the perimeter columns softened, yet your findings make clear that "most perimeter panels (157 of 160) saw no temperature above 250C." To soften steel for the purposes of forging, normally temperatures need to be above1100C (6). However, this new summary report suggests that much lower temperatures were be able to not only soften the steel in a matter of minutes, but lead to rapid structural collapse.

This story just does not add up. If steel from those buildings did soften or melt, I’m sure we can all agree that this was certainly not due to jet fuel fires of any kind, let alone the briefly burning fires in those towers. That fact should be of great concern to all Americans. Alternatively, the contention that this steel did fail at temperatures around 250C suggests that the majority of deaths on 9/11 were due to a safety-related failure. That suggestion should be of great concern to my company.

There is no question that the events of 9/11 are the emotional driving force behind the War on Terror. And the issue of the WTC collapse is at the crux of the story of 9/11. My feeling is that your metallurgical tests are at the crux of the crux of the crux. Either you can make sense of what really happened to those buildings, and communicate this quickly, or we all face the same destruction and despair that come from global decisions based on disinformation and “chatter”.

Thanks for your efforts to determine what happened on that day. You may know that there are a number of other current and former government employees that have risked a great deal to help us to know the truth. I've copied one of these people on this message as a sign of respect and support. I believe your work could also be a nucleus of fact around which the truth, and thereby global peace and justice, can grow again. Please do what you can to quickly eliminate the confusion regarding the ability of jet fuel fires to soften or melt structural steel.

1. http://www.boulderweekly.com/archive...overstory.html 2. CRC Handbook of Chemistry and Physics, 61st edition, pg D-187 3. http://wtc.nist.gov/media/P3Mechanic...sisofSteel.pdf 4. http://www.voicesofsept11.org/archive/911ic/082703.php 5. http://wtc.nist.gov/media/NCSTACWTCS...101904WEB2.pdf (pg 11) 6. http://www.forging.org/FIERF/pdf/ffaaMacSleyne.pdf

Kevin Ryan,
Site Manager Environmental Health Laboratories A Division of Underwriters Laboratories

shimmeh · 03-23-2006, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diana Ball

How about Kevin Ryan? Is he credible?

DAMN DUDE CHECK IT OUT, ANOTHER 9/11 CONSPIRACY WEBSITE POSTED BY DIANABALL, WHAT A SUPRISE!

BTW, did you ever look at the qualificatiosn of the people on your '9/11 truth' website?

Looks more like they should be reading William Shakesphere than dealing with building collapses. I see more resumes on their member list dealing with 'philosophy' 'humanities' 'religion' 'theology' 'economics' 'psychology' 'english and theatre'

Puhleease...

SikoJames · 03-23-2006, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shimmeh

Wow, Weak Credibility!

What can i say, government mass-murder isnt exactly in the times or taploids.

shimmeh · 03-23-2006, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SikoJames

What can i say, government mass-murder isnt exactly in the times or taploids.

Yeah, because FAKE news that STUPID isnt even credible enough for the TABLOIDS to report on... LOL!

Diana Ball · 03-23-2006, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shimmeh

DAMN DUDE CHECK IT OUT, ANOTHER 9/11 CONSPIRACY WEBSITE POSTED BY DIANABALL, WHAT A SUPRISE!
.

Yeah youre right you know...

Kevin Ryan of Underwriters Labs who certified the steel of the WTC is not as credible as a CHERTOFF family member who wrote your oft-quoted, but blatently biased PM article right?

shimmeh · 03-23-2006, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diana Ball

Yeah youre right you know...

Kevin Ryan of Underwriters Labs who certified the steel of the WTC is not as credible as a CHERTOFF family member who wrote your oft-quoted, but blatently biased PM article right?

Let me think now.. Popular Mechanics, one of the most popular and reliable scientific magazines out there. Staff members with years and years of experience in the field.

Their experience vs. who? An individual, Kevin Ryan?

Yeah, what I thought.

AlphaMaleness · 03-23-2006, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shimmeh

Looks more like they should be reading William Shakesphere than dealing with building collapses. I see more resumes on their member list dealing with 'philosophy' 'humanities' 'religion' 'theology' 'economics' 'psychology' 'english and theatre'

Puhleease...

ahahhahaha

psychology to tap into the mind of why Diana ball and other fellow members believe that It was an "Inside Job" done by the CIA.

hohandy · 03-23-2006, 05:10 PM

The whole to me is fairly simple - rather than being completely upfront and public about everything the Bush Administration has engaged in secrecy, stonewall, and cover-your-ass, and fought tooth and nail against having an official bi-partisan public investigation. A major rule of governence is that if you aren't upfront about things, then rumors and speculation will start flying - just as it has with 9/11 - and that divides (or distracts - which is it?) the people. The fact that these stuff is still a huge topic 4 1/2 years later says a lot about the legitimacy of the Bush way of doing things.

Ocrum's razor says that the simplest explanation is most often the correct one. If the Bush Administration is trying to hide aspects of 9/11, then they must have something to hide. Otherwise what's the point of trying to keep it secret?

shimmeh · 03-23-2006, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hohandy

Ocrum's razor says that the simplest explanation is most often the correct one.

You mean, like, "Arabs got pissed at US so decided to kill Americans"

Yup.

Krunk Fu · 03-23-2006, 05:13 PM

^^ The planning couldn't have taken in place strictly during Bush's term in office. So why did you fail to mention anything about Clinton - I mean he still supports the war.

tunaman · 03-23-2006, 05:21 PM

All the sheep have ignored the undeniable fact there was a major cover up. Most people don't get caught in the act of committing a crime, but the reason they are found out is the subsequent cover up.

How can that popularmechanics site have any credibility when it is obviously written by the government trying to cover their own ass?

Just look at the following lies they use to try to explain the controlled demolition of WTC 7.

FACT : But NIST's analysis suggests the fall of WTC 7 was an example of "progressive collapse," a process in which the failure of parts of a structure ultimately creates strains that cause the entire building to come down. Videos of the fall of WTC 7 show cracks, or "kinks," in the building's facade just before the two penthouses disappeared into the structure, one after the other.

The entire building fell in on itself, with the slumping east side of the structure pulling down the west side in a diagonal collapse.

Really?

http://thunderbay.indymedia.org/uplo...demolition.gif

Mrs Grudge · 03-23-2006, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tunaman

All the sheep have ignored the undeniable fact there was a major cover up. Most people don't get caught in the act of committing a crime, but the reason they are found out is the subsequent cover up.

How can that popularmechanics site have any credibility when it is obviously written by the government trying to cover their own ass?

Just look at the following lies they use to try to explain the controlled demolition of WTC 7.

FACT : But NIST's analysis suggests the fall of WTC 7 was an example of "progressive collapse," a process in which the failure of parts of a structure ultimately creates strains that cause the entire building to come down. Videos of the fall of WTC 7 show cracks, or "kinks," in the building's facade just before the two penthouses disappeared into the structure, one after the other.

The entire building fell in on itself, with the slumping east side of the structure pulling down the west side in a diagonal collapse.

Really?

http://thunderbay.indymedia.org/uplo...demolition.gif

You know, I noticed somthing. You seem to stick on to the WTC7 point alot. For good reason for its really the strongest point against the offical story.

So lets say they did Pull the WTC7. How would you prove the government did the rest?

Krunk Fu · 03-23-2006, 05:36 PM

The problem with these debates are, any refuting evidence against the 9/11 theories will be labeled as right wing cons propaganda and/or right winger lies... but isn't that hypocritical since the majority of the 9/11 conspiracy sites are done by left wing liberals?

AlphaMaleness · 03-23-2006, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by akaye47

The problem with these debates are, any refuting evidence against the 9/11 theories will be labeled as right wing cons propaganda and/or right winger lies... but isn't that hypocritical since the majority of the 9/11 conspiracy sites are done by left wing liberals?

Amen to that

shimmeh · 03-23-2006, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tunaman

Just look at the following lies they use to try to explain the controlled demolition of WTC 7.

FACT : But NIST's analysis suggests the fall of WTC 7 was an example of "progressive collapse," a process in which the failure of parts of a structure ultimately creates strains that cause the entire building to come down. Videos of the fall of WTC 7 show cracks, or "kinks," in the building's facade just before the two penthouses disappeared into the structure, one after the other.

Sigh... the link you posted doesent even show the bottom portion of the tower or how the building collapsed in the end, it is obscured by other buildings.

The PM article says

Quote:

The entire building fell in on itself

Which it did in your video

[quotewith the slumping east side of the structure pulling down the west side in a diagonal collapse.[/quote]

Which you cant see because 'ground zero' is obscured.

SikoJames · 03-23-2006, 05:54 PM

Anyone watch CNN tonight? Government cover-up of 9/11 was never discussed on the news until tonight. Alex Jones did an incredible job getting the word out. I guess the movement got a huge push from Charlie Sheen's confidence to speak up.

Vote here:

http://edition.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/showbiz.tonight/