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Old 02-06-2006, 09:56 AM   #1
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What happens when the oil bourse opens up in March?

Would countries actually start dumping the dollar before this happens?
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Old 02-06-2006, 10:31 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marlowfrost
Would countries actually start dumping the dollar before this happens?
I thought that I was the only one who knew about this. Glad someone else does. The Media sure as heck isn't talking about this. I think that this is big time trouble for the dollar. Chavez has already switched to the Euro. China has "diversified" their holdings, and now Iran. Irans oil bourse is to start up in March, using a euro-based international oil-trading mechanism. In 2003 Iran switched its oil payments of European and Asian customers to the euro. I think that the Iranian bourse will put in a new oil marker pegged to the Euro which I believe would be the logical next step. If this happens, the U.S. will no longer be able to finance it's debt as it has been using T bills. The demand for the dollar will fall as will the liquidity and value thus wreaking havoc on the economy.
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Old 02-06-2006, 11:03 AM   #3
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But on the other hand if the U.S. takes control of the oil fields of the east bank of the Persian Gulf(in addition to the Caspian basin) it would pretty much have control of much of the worlds oil, which means total control of the global economy.

Last edited by Marlowfrost; 02-06-2006 at 11:05 AM.
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Old 02-06-2006, 11:04 AM   #4
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Great topic

How close is Iran to opening the Iranian Oil Bourse? The Iranian Oil Bourse is scheduled to be opened in March. Curiously, that is the same month Israel has quietly set as a deadline for a diplomatic resolution of the Iranian nuclear crisis.
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Old 02-06-2006, 07:34 PM   #5
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I suppose we'll just have to wait and see. I can't see how the U.S. could fail. It just doesn't seem like them.
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Old 02-06-2006, 07:42 PM   #6
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I havnt heard of this

Can i have a link of some sort perhaps
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Old 02-06-2006, 08:36 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the next arnold
I havnt heard of this

Can i have a link of some sort perhaps
http://news.google.com/news?q=oil+bo...ab=nn&oi=newsr
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Old 02-06-2006, 08:45 PM   #8
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Old 02-06-2006, 11:46 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by javierruizleon
Great topic

How close is Iran to opening the Iranian Oil Bourse? The Iranian Oil Bourse is scheduled to be opened in March. Curiously, that is the same month Israel has quietly set as a deadline for a diplomatic resolution of the Iranian nuclear crisis.
I have too much time on my hands.

March 1: Deadline set by Israel for diplomatic efforts with Iran to prove successful.

March 6: Scheduled IAE meeting with ElBaradei.

March 20: Oil Bourse set to kick off.

March 28: Israeli elections.

Interesting timeline IMO.

Last edited by Jeremy1; 02-07-2006 at 07:58 AM.
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Old 02-10-2006, 10:25 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marlowfrost
Would countries actually start dumping the dollar before this happens?
I don't think that they will start dumping the dollar before this, but I do believe that once enacted they will start to lessen their dollar holdings if not outright dump. Why hold a falling dollar when you can hold a stronger euro? Who knows though what will really happen? I hope nothing, but I feel very strongly that something will, and it will not be to our benefit.
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Old 02-10-2006, 12:37 PM   #11
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This is why the bogus concern about Iran's nuclear program is being put out on the news. The neocons need more WMD bs stories so the public will back an attack on Iran. Now we know the real reason for the coming attack.
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Old 02-10-2006, 01:17 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy1
I thought that I was the only one who knew about this. Glad someone else does. The Media sure as heck isn't talking about this. I think that this is big time trouble for the dollar. Chavez has already switched to the Euro. China has "diversified" their holdings, and now Iran. Irans oil bourse is to start up in March, using a euro-based international oil-trading mechanism. In 2003 Iran switched its oil payments of European and Asian customers to the euro. I think that the Iranian bourse will put in a new oil marker pegged to the Euro which I believe would be the logical next step. If this happens, the U.S. will no longer be able to finance it's debt as it has been using T bills. The demand for the dollar will fall as will the liquidity and value thus wreaking havoc on the economy.
Sounds great!!!
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Old 02-10-2006, 01:48 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy1
I don't think that they will start dumping the dollar before this,
Its starting just as you said:

http://english.eastday.com/eastday/e...ai1837430.html
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Old 02-10-2006, 03:40 PM   #14
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Interesting read. Thanks
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Old 02-10-2006, 04:46 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ironman1964bc
This is why the bogus concern about Iran's nuclear program is being put out on the news. The neocons need more WMD bs stories so the public will back an attack on Iran. Now we know the real reason for the coming attack.
That must be why Europe is backing us in the Iran situation...huh...dolt.

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Old 02-10-2006, 06:08 PM   #16
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hmmmm

Here is a good article in this topic


->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >


For starters, you don't need to acquire any U.S. assets in order to purchase a barrel of oil that is priced in dollars. You could pay with eurodollars, which are dollar-denominated accounts that could be issued by any bank anywhere in the world.

And even if the oil were purchased with dollars drawn on a U.S. bank, there is no reason at all that the seller needs to retain the proceeds in that form. Those selling oil could convert those dollars back to euros or Japanese yen or whatever their hearts desired, and likewise could convert euros obtained through sales on an Iranian bourse back into dollars, if they wished. What ultimately determines the demand for dollars is not the unit of account for the transaction, but rather the desired asset holdings of those who are accumulating the wealth.

You could buy gold right now in New York for dollars or in London for pounds. Which one is cheaper? Guess what-- you'll pay exactly the same price either place once you make the currency conversion at the current exchange rate. The same will surely hold for crude oil.

And the notion that the U.S. dollar is currently "backed by oil" is so nonsensical that it is difficult even to fathom what that phrase is intended to convey. When we say that under a gold standard, the dollar is backed by gold, I know exactly what that means-- it means you can surrender dollars at any time to obtain a fixed amount of gold promised by the government. But if you surrender dollars on any given day in January 2006, how much oil are you going to get back?

It varies literally by the minute, and the rate at which dollars get exchanged for oil has nothing to do with the promises made by any government and everything to do with market fluctuations in supply and demand.

Which is also my explanation for the prevalence of these theories on the internet-- there is a demand for a deeply conspiratorial interpretation of world events, and always someone willing to supply such.

The KEY issue behind all of this hype is that of reserve status of the US dollar. The "Bourse Nonsense" seems to imply two things that simply are not true:

1. Oil will have to be priced in euros (or some other currency) for the US dollar to lose reserve status.

2. As long as oil remains priced in US dollars the US will retain reserve status.

As best as I can tell those are the poor assumptions behind these articles. One of the articles even declared "Bush descended victoriously from a fighter jet and declared the mission accomplished—he had successfully defended the U.S. dollar, and thus the American Empire". How can anyone take such nonsense seriously?

The point I would like to make is that regardless of the pricing unit on oil there will likely be a gradual shift away from US dollar assets and US dollar currency reserves. That is the key issue, and it will NOT take oil to be priced in Euros for that to happen any more that it will take gold to be priced in Euros for China, Russia, Argentina, and other countries to start accumulating gold.
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Old 02-10-2006, 06:59 PM   #17
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I dont see how it matters considering the Iranians will most likely be drowning in their own oil after the world embargoes their asses. Most likely change their tune when "the great satan" takes it buisness elsewhere.
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Old 02-10-2006, 07:00 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy1
I have too much time on my hands.

March 1: Deadline set by Israel for diplomatic efforts with Iran to prove successful.

March 6: Scheduled IAE meeting with ElBaradei.

March 20: Oil Bourse set to kick off.

March 28: Israeli elections.

Interesting timeline IMO.
Another interesting occurrence in March:
March 23: M-3 will be hidden. One key difference between M3, M1 & M2 is that M3 includes Eurodollar deposits. Eurodollars are deposits denominated in US dollars at banks outside the United States.

www.federalreserve.gov/releases/h6/discm3.htm

Ok editorial explaining the M's with a few theories from some as to why the hiding of the M3.
http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials...and112205.html

Last edited by Jeremy1; 02-10-2006 at 08:21 PM.
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Old 02-14-2006, 12:59 AM   #19
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The end of publishing of M3 in March 2006 coincides with the start of the Iranian Oil Bourse. The premise here is that the with the oil bourse trading in Euros there will be a rush out of US$ into Euros and that M3 could drop sharply. A sharp drop in M3 would of course presage a recession as falling M3 is a characteristic of weak economic periods.
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Old 02-14-2006, 03:27 AM   #20
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I am close friends with two senior oil traders for a very large European bank and we were having the same discussion last weekend. They fully expect the dollar to crash within the next 12 months as it will not only be Iran which will switch to the Euro. The Euro is a more stable currency and it's in most countries' interest to switch from the dollar.

Another interesting aside is that when the Iraqi govt was replaced, they were forced by the US govt to switch back to dollars (Saddam started trading in Euros years ago), which has costed the new Iraqi Govt billions of dollars.
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Old 02-14-2006, 04:49 AM   #21
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Is anyone here actually an economist, and how come when I search for "oil bourse" in google news, I don't see a link from any news source I recognize?

I think this represents an interesting development, but it will be hard for those of us not fully educated in macroeconomics to comprehend without coming off as sophomoric.

It does seem like most of the sites reporting on the "oil bourse" are somewhat left leaning and are looking for some "nitty gritty" ulterior motive to the anti-Iranian war drum which is being beaten rather fiercely as of late.
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Old 02-17-2006, 09:57 AM   #22
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Another article on this subject:

http://www.fin24.co.za/articles/econ...518-25_1804831
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Old 02-25-2006, 01:17 PM   #23
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Another article, but about Norway.
http://www.energybulletin.net/13081.html
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Old 03-09-2006, 09:42 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy1
I have too much time on my hands.

March 1: Deadline set by Israel for diplomatic efforts with Iran to prove successful.

March 6: Scheduled IAE meeting with ElBaradei.

March 20: Oil Bourse set to kick off.

March 28: Israeli elections.

Interesting timeline IMO.
Well, the IAE meeting did not prove successful which we all knew it wouldn't.

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Old 03-20-2006, 10:50 PM   #25
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Old 03-22-2006, 09:43 AM   #26
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Did the oil bourse start?
http://english.pravda.ru/world/asia/...06/77628-oil-0

http://en.rian.ru/world/20060320/44575239.html

Check this out from our friends at al-jazeera. Look at the last paragraph and the word optimism.
http://www.aljazeera.com/cgi-bin/rev...ervice_ID=9752

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Old 05-06-2006, 10:53 PM   #27
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http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/busine...Oil_Euros.html

Analysts skeptical of Iran oil plan
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

TEHRAN, Iran -- Iran took a step on Friday toward establishing an oil market denominated in euros, a plan analysts described as highly unlikely to materialize but which in theory could have serious consequences for the U.S. economy.

Iranian state-run television said the country's oil ministry granted a license for the euro-denominated market, an idea first floated back in 2004, though just who would trade on it remains unclear.

If the market were to succeed - or if Iran simply demanded payment for its oil in euros - commodities experts said it could lead central bankers around the world to convert some dollar reserves into euros, possibly causing a decline in the dollar's value.

Oil is currently denominated in dollars around the globe, whether through direct sales between producers and consumers or in trades made on markets in New York and London.

But if one day the world's largest oil producers allowed, or worse demanded, euros for their barrels, "it would be the financial equivalent of a nuclear strike," said A.G. Edwards commodities analyst Bill O'Grady.

"If OPEC decided they didn't want dollars anymore," he added, "it would signal an end of American hegemony by signaling an end to the dollar as the sole reserve currency status."

If the dollar lost its status as the world's reserve currency, that would force the United States to fund its massive account deficit by running a trade surplus, which would increase inflationary pressures.
O'Grady said there are practical reasons why the Iranian threat is an empty one.

For starters, Iran is not a very attractive site for a market, given the volatile nature of its politics, the U.S. sanctions against it and the lack of a fair legal system. Moreover, there is no indication that the European Union is interested in vying to become the world's central bank, which requires a willingness to run large currency deficits, he said. For the U.S., that has meant allowing cheap imports to undermine the strength of some major industries, including textiles, autos and electronics manufacturing.

PFC Energy oil analyst Jamal Qureshi said the fears stirred up by a hypothetical euro-denominated oil market in Iran or anywhere else are overblown, not least because the oil trade is just a small component of the overall global economy.

Iranian legislators earlier this year urged the government to set up the market to reduce the United States' influence over the Islamic republic's economy. They also criticized Oil Minister Sayed Kazem Vaziri Hamaneh, saying he had delayed setting up the bourse.

First floated in 2004 when reformist president Mohammad Khatami was in power, the idea of a euros-traded oil bourse gained new life after the stridently nationalist Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was elected president last summer.

Iran is the fourth-largest oil producing country in the world, the second-largest in the Organization of Petroleum Exporting countries and controls about 5 percent of the global oil supply, so it has a measure of influence over international oil markets. Tehran also partially controls the Persian Gulf's Strait of Hormuz through which much of the world's oil supply must pass.

Iran has sought to wield its oil resources as a bargaining tool in Tehran's ongoing standoff with the West over its nuclear program.

Oil prices jumped above $75 a barrel last month amid escalating diplomatic tensions between Washington and Tehran. On Friday, crude oil futures traded just above $70 a barrel.

Iran's deputy oil minister, M.H. Nejad Hosseinian, said Thursday he doubted the U.N. Security Council would impose sanctions on Iran's oil sector because such a move would drive oil prices higher.

Council members are considering imposing sanctions on Iran for defying their request to halt all uranium enrichment-related activities by late last month.
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