Christians, Muslims, and Jews: Where do you believe your soul comes from?

[Skwidward]

Obviously you believe God made it...

Do you believe he made it simultaniously while making you inside your Mum?

Where do you believe it orriginates from?

Are you made in Heaven then zapped down into your body at birth?

I just ask because the concept of reincarnation kinda makes sense-you die, your soul goes to the spirit world, you chill, you choose a new life, you get zapped down into your new body, you die and so on.

[eazy_mas]

Good Question:

check this out : http://www.jalyat.net/Human%20Embryonic.htm

as well as Adam was created from the Earth, if you see your body it contian the same minerals as the Earth.

here a vid about Islam and science:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...57434193876105

[Dr Triceps]

What soul? I was in a coma for weeks as a teen and I had no other conscience take over. Where was my 'soul' then? My brain was barely on (still is) and there was nothing there...
By the way, if anyone is gonna use the 'saw the white light and the doctors working on me when I died' story, there was a study done where they used electrical stimulation on certain parts of the brain. 600 out of 600 people saw the 'white light and themselves from above. 600 out of 600...

[KhanPaulsen]

Originally Posted by Dr Triceps

By the way, if anyone is gonna use the 'saw the white light and the doctors working on me when I died' story, there was a study done where they used electrical stimulation on certain parts of the brain. 600 out of 600 people saw the 'white light and themselves from above. 600 out of 600...

Proof.

[Skwidward]

Originally Posted by Dr Triceps

What soul?

The one that goes to heaven when you die according to the Christian, Muslim, and Jewish religions.

[Dr Triceps]

Originally Posted by KhanPaulsen

Proof.

Proof of what, the study I assume? I'll research it, it was on discovery channel or 20/20, something like that a few months ago and I think it was at Northwestern. They stimulated the limbic system, If I remember correctly. Everyone felt the same thing and came to the conclusion that they were entering heaven. When the stimulation was stopped the people were upset because they liked it so much. I wish I had caught the details of the study and I was debating whether or not I was going to post it because I knew it would be challenged. I'll find out though...maybe someone out there saw it also???

[Dr Triceps]

Originally Posted by Skwidward

The one that goes to heaven when you die according to the Christian, Muslim, and Jewish religions.

Where is it now??? Where's the proof of a soul and why has no one identified their's when unconscience??? Where is it now?

[reignoffire]

Originally Posted by Dr Triceps

What soul? I was in a coma for weeks as a teen and I had no other conscience take over. Where was my 'soul' then?

I find this interesting....didn't you dream at all or anything like that? Were you a believer before your coma? what about the people who are in coma's that gradually respond to voices and music and things like that?

[Desahogo]

being in a coma is very different from being dead. dead = no brain activity at all, coma: well, you are not dead. I dont get why people draw the correlation between the two. or when they compare being dead to being asleep.

[Dr Triceps]

Originally Posted by reignoffire

I find this interesting....didn't you dream at all or anything like that? Were you a believer before your coma? what about the people who are in coma's that gradually respond to voices and music and things like that?

I knew nothing. I slipped off a high dive board and hit my head on the side of the pool. I knew nothing for weeks, no dreams, no feelings, nothing. I opened my eyes and immediately asked 'Who got me out of the pool?" I remember slipping and that's it. No soul was there when my brain was partially off so I believe there will be no soul when it's totally off...

[Skwidward]

Originally Posted by Dr Triceps

Where is it now??? Where's the proof of a soul and why has no one identified their's when unconscience??? Where is it now?

Good question.

I pose that question to the aformentioned relgions too.

EDIT: There are those studies that show a body loses 21grams after death.

[PissingQuietly]

Isn't being in a coma similair to being asleep?

[Lolzords]

Originally Posted by eazy_mas

Good Question:

check this out : http://www.jalyat.net/Human%20Embryonic.htm

as well as Adam was created from the Earth, if you see your body it contian the same minerals as the Earth.

here a vid about Islam and science:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...57434193876105

Of course our bodies contain minerals from the earth. You dont just think the matter that makes up our bodies comes out of nowhere do you?

Matter cannot be created or distroyed only changed therefore the atoms we are made of have been here since the beginning of time.

[Lolzords]

Originally Posted by Skwidward

Good question.

I pose that question to the aformentioned relgions too.

EDIT: There are those studies that show a body loses 21grams after death.

Wasn't that some study done about 100 years ago on cats and dogs?

[sumguy]

Originally Posted by Skwidward

Good question.

I pose that question to the aformentioned relgions too.

EDIT: There are those studies that show a body loses 21grams after death.

"Those studies" was just some eccentric guy with a bad scale a long time ago. Modern technology doesn't show that it's true.

[eazy_mas]

Originally Posted by Lolzords

Of course our bodies contain minerals from the earth. You dont just think the matter that makes up our bodies comes out of nowhere do you?

Matter cannot be created or distroyed only changed therefore the atoms we are made of have been here since the beginning of time.

you could see that Islam knew these before 1400 years ago

[Lolzords]

Originally Posted by eazy_mas

you could see that Islam knew these before 1400 years ago

Maybe... I doubt they knew about the atoms, or used the logic of matter cannot be created or destroyed, but before the huge boom of christianity didn't most people hold naturalistic pagan beliefs? I'd think people who believed in nature would probably have had the idea we come from the earth because it sustains us with the water food and shelter we obtain from it etc..

[Lolzords]

Originally Posted by Skwidward

Obviously you believe God made it...

Do you believe he made it simultaniously while making you inside your Mum?

Where do you believe it orriginates from?

Are you made in Heaven then zapped down into your body at birth?

I just ask because the concept of reincarnation kinda makes sense-you die, your soul goes to the spirit world, you chill, you choose a new life, you get zapped down into your new body, you die and so on.

HE dosn't make you inside your mum.. A series of biological processes start occuring at the point of fertilisation, that end up producing a baby. Provided of course none of the processes screw up.

No reincarnation does not make sense. Where are all the new souls coming from? The worlds population is always increasing, why dont you remember previous lives etcetcetc.

[JBDW]

Originally Posted by Lolzords

No reincarnation does not make sense. Where are all the new souls coming from? The worlds population is always increasing, why dont you remember previous lives etcetcetc.

1. Intelligent life exists elsewhere on earth, and souls are also 'allocated', if you will, to those intelligent beings. In other words, the reservoir of souls could be far more vast than just the 6 billion currently required for our planet. Either that, or God simply creates more.

2. Some books on the afterlife say that we don't remember our past lives because that would not be constructive to our effort in our present life, limited as we are by our previous memories. Our biasness, preconceptions and mistakes are still us, and sometimes ti is better to just start afresh.

Of course, I'm not saying I necessarily believe in reincarnation or even in the afterlife, but those are answers which I've seen before. I must say though, that if I were to analyse the 'afterlife' concepts, reincarnation would make the most sense to me. It would fulfil the concept of karma perfectly, and in the long run even out in terms of fairness for everyone. As well as the notion of multiple lives, each one being a slow improvement on the previous, until one is pure enough to ascend to heaven.

[Skwidward]

Originally Posted by Lolzords

HE dosn't make you inside your mum.. A series of biological processes start occuring at the point of fertilisation, that end up producing a baby. Provided of course none of the processes screw up.

lol....oh so that's how a baby grows.

I'm talking about souls.

[QUOTE=Lolzords] Where are all the new souls coming from? QUOTE]
This is my question.

[David77]

Originally Posted by JBDW

Of course, I'm not saying I necessarily believe in reincarnation or even in the afterlife, but those are answers which I've seen before. I must say though, that if I were to analyse the 'afterlife' concepts, reincarnation would make the most sense to me. It would fulfil the concept of karma perfectly, and in the long run even out in terms of fairness for everyone.

Agreed. Which is why I believe it. There is no other explanation that is just and fair. Reincarnation and karma are the only way justice can be done, and if God is just, which is stated in all religions, then it must be true. The "just and merciful" God of the Christians is anything but.

[Desahogo]

Originally Posted by David77

Reincarnation and karma are the only way justice can be done,

how is reincarnation fair if you cant even remmember you past life and rectify your errors? X steals and then dies. reincarnates into Y. now Y is born handless. And Y is Y he never remmebers being X. He doesnt know what he did wrong so he cant do anything to fix it and asks himself why am i being punished. thats like taking a murderer, putting him in a coma and then sticking him in prison? no point.

[David77]

Originally Posted by Desahogo

how is reincarnation fair if you cant even remmember you past life and rectify your errors? X steals and then dies. reincarnates into Y. now Y is born handless. And Y is Y he never remmebers being X. He doesnt know what he did wrong so he cant do anything to fix it and asks himself why am i being punished. thats like taking a murderer, putting him in a coma and then sticking him in prison? no point.

The memory of past lives is taken away for our benefit. What if you committed some act that you were very shamed by and you carried this burden with you your whole life? Would you want to carry this with you for 100s of lives? Wiping our memory gives us a chance to start fresh, a chance to live a pure life untainted by the many tragedies of the past. Besides what is the alternative? The baby is born without the use of his hands for absolutely no reason at all? Is that more fair? Or perhaps it's the mysterious will of God? Surely this is completely unfair.

[NicVJ]

Originally Posted by Dr Triceps

What soul? I was in a coma for weeks as a teen and I had no other conscience take over. Where was my 'soul' then? My brain was barely on (still is) and there was nothing there...

So you don't recall any time lapse whatsoever between you being in a coma and waking up? You didn't even know you were in a coma till you were told?

[NicVJ]

Originally Posted by David77

The memory of past lives is taken away for our benefit. What if you committed some act that you were very shamed by and you carried this burden with you your whole life? Would you want to carry this with you for 100s of lives? Wiping our memory gives us a chance to start fresh, a chance to live a pure life untainted by the many tragedies of the past. Besides what is the alternative? The baby is born without the use of his hands for absolutely no reason at all? Is that more fair? Or perhaps it's the mysterious will of God? Surely this is completely unfair.

But you see, the point of karma and fairness is something like reward and punishment. If you do something good, you get rewarded. Rewards only work if you know what you're rewarded for. For example, you win a trophy because you put in 10 hours more work per week than your competitors and you know that is the critical factor. Conversely, you get sent to prison for offences you commit. If you're ignorant or unaware of the reason that got you into prison, chances are you will either consciously or otherwise, commit the same offence without knowing it is actually punishable by a prison sentence.

In this context, reincarnation and karma can possibly only work IF you know your previous life and that your current life is a result of your previous life's actions. It doesn't have to be tit-for-tat I feel. It could just be a less fortunate position than you were previously. For example, if you had a top college degree, a high-flying career etc and you did something real bad, in your next life you could just be an average layman with the knowledge of your mistake. I admit this is kind of simplistic, but it's just a general guideline. Alternatively, karma and reincarnation - without knowing our past mistakes - can achieve the aim of making humans lead better lives if it is proven that reincarnation really exists and we indeed pay for our mistakes in our next life. However, I really think it is quite hard to prove this scientifically or even theoretically. I'm sure some people here will say hypnotic, psychological etc studies have been conducted that corroborate claims of reincarnation, but I doubt the general public is any nearer to being convinced than they are about 9/11.

[JBDW]

Originally Posted by NicVJ

But you see, the point of karma and fairness is something like reward and punishment. If you do something good, you get rewarded. Rewards only work if you know what you're rewarded for. For example, you win a trophy because you put in 10 hours more work per week than your competitors and you know that is the critical factor. Conversely, you get sent to prison for offences you commit. If you're ignorant or unaware of the reason that got you into prison, chances are you will either consciously or otherwise, commit the same offence without knowing it is actually punishable by a prison sentence.

In this context, reincarnation and karma can possibly only work IF you know your previous life and that your current life is a result of your previous life's actions. It doesn't have to be tit-for-tat I feel. It could just be a less fortunate position than you were previously. For example, if you had a top college degree, a high-flying career etc and you did something real bad, in your next life you could just be an average layman with the knowledge of your mistake. I admit this is kind of simplistic, but it's just a general guideline. Alternatively, karma and reincarnation - without knowing our past mistakes - can achieve the aim of making humans lead better lives if it is proven that reincarnation really exists and we indeed pay for our mistakes in our next life. However, I really think it is quite hard to prove this scientifically or even theoretically. I'm sure some people here will say hypnotic, psychological etc studies have been conducted that corroborate claims of reincarnation, but I doubt the general public is any nearer to being convinced than they are about 9/11.

Karma is about rewards and punishment, true. But that’s it. Since when was karma supposed to be about a conscious knowledge about what you were being rewarded or punished for?

Your example isn’t really karmic repayment. A more accurate scenario would be if a parent in one life was abusive and caused the death of their child. And in a later life, have a child that they wanted desperately being taken away from them through a miscarriage. The karmic debt is more accurately repaid in this case.

I’d say a clean slate is more important. Otherwise, your current life would be too defined by your previous lives, which really defeats the whole purpose. Unless your new life is exactly the same as the previous one, the opportunities and experiences would be most likely entirely different. Knowledge of the previous lives would then be a hindrance in trying out new experiences and solutions.

[David77]

I agree that it would be helpful to remember your past lives, but it would be more of a hinderance, and in most cases it's not necessary. Suffering is a tool that is used to spur your desire for freedom. After you have suffered enough during many lifetimes a great desire for liberation arrises. Once you are on the path to freedom from all suffering your past isn't very important, only what you do from now on. Remembrance of past lives is also an ability that the advanced yogi attains, so it's not impossible.

[Dr Triceps]

Originally Posted by NicVJ

So you don't recall any time lapse whatsoever between you being in a coma and waking up? You didn't even know you were in a coma till you were told?

No. It felt like the same day when I came to. I didn't believe anyone at first, I had thought I got knocked out until logic told me that a fall from that height would do more than knock you out. Usually, according to the Dr, people who come out of coma's slowly regain their thinking process. I felt fine right away, I asked immediately "who got me out of the water"?" I even went back to school a few days later.
I've heard other coma stories where they felt like they were out for a long time, but not me. I've asked the question of soul awarness to other coma survivors and not one of them felt a soul of any kind...maybe someone out there did, though...
I've questioned the soul theory ever since...if my soul isn't there when I'm unconscience, then what good is it? If it isn't there then, I would think it wouldn't be there after death...we'll all see, I guess...

[David77]

Originally Posted by Dr Triceps

No. It felt like the same day when I came to. I didn't believe anyone at first, I had thought I got knocked out until logic told me that a fall from that height would do more than knock you out. Usually, according to the Dr, people who come out of coma's slowly regain their thinking process. I felt fine right away, I asked immediately "who got me out of the water"?" I even went back to school a few days later.
I've heard other coma stories where they felt like they were out for a long time, but not me. I've asked the question of soul awarness to other coma survivors and not one of them felt a soul of any kind...maybe someone out there did, though...
I've questioned the soul theory ever since...if my soul isn't there when I'm unconscience, then what good is it? If it isn't there then, I would think it wouldn't be there after death...we'll all see, I guess...

I don't see why you would expect to experience the soul just because you are in a coma. If you can't experience it now you won't when you are in a coma, or when you die.

[Dr Triceps]

Originally Posted by David77

I don't see why you would expect to experience the soul just because you are in a coma. If you can't experience it now you won't when you are in a coma, or when you die.

The soul must be an extension of my conscienceness or it isn't mine. I would think one should feel it and know it is theirs, and no one I know has. I'm not saying I'm right, I have no idea until I die, but all experience thusfar has show me there is no soul. What do you think a soul is? I've aked that question before and gotten different answers form everyone, thus making the question more difficult...