Board Protocol - Everyone Must Read

[Big Cat]

Keep it bumped, til this has been read by most, then I will sticky it. I learned from making the rules and FAQs that making it a sticky immediately doesn't seem to help much, since despite being mandatory reading for anyone posting, very few seem to be aware of them, that includes some people who have been here a long time.

We're not making any more rules, There is little or no point, it seems everyone just breaks them, and since we can't ban everyone permanently, it just results in a few minor bans no one seems to care much about, since the situation is getting progressively worse. I have a better idea. I'm creating this as a protocol, some things civil, serious people will adhere to. Do you have to follow this protocol ? No. But whether or not you do will show the moderators whether, regardless of rep count, post count or date of registration, you are a serious poster, or a trouble maker.

Because let’s face it, some of the problems we've been having can be attributed to newbies not reading the rules, trouble makers, and trolls. But a lot of the fact that it has escalated is actually more respected members aggravating matters. It has to stop. Your reputation or your post count can no longer be a shield against proper enforcement of the rules on our part. Whether or not you can conduct yourself in a proper manner, some guidelines will be given in this protocol, will give US, the moderators, a better view of whom we should be watching. And the result will of course be that we will take action against repeat offenders and people who fail to contribute positively, while being brought to our attention negatively.

I hope you will all try your hardest to participate in this.

PROTOCOL GUIDELINES

1.Respect each other. Discussions are what a good board thrives on, and discussions get heated. The odd word or two that is less than appropriate can be uttered, and that is understandable. What dissociates the valuable members from the others is that the valuable members will refrain from using derogatory remarks as much as possible, and if somehow something slips out, they are man enough to apologize for it. Its time that people realize that apologizing for a mistake DOES NOT MAKE YOU A WIMP. On the contrary, it demonstrates you are the bigger man. An apology for a flame does not detract from a valid argument in any way.

2.Respect newbies. A lot to ask, I know, especially if they don't read the board rules. But please, do not flame them. Point out there mistake in a proper and to the point manner (the shorter the better, as stupid questions are never in short supply) and point them to the correct places to find the correct information. Rules, FAQ’s and the search button. I know this isn't easy, and that when you are on the internet, that extra 2 minutes seems like such a waste of time, but it does show the lengths you are willing to go to, to help this board.

3.Bring proper arguments. "That's not how I do it and you're a loser" is not a proper argument. If there is no clear answer to prove a point, then that point is open for debate. If people are to learn anything on here, we need civil debate and proper arguments. Even points previously set in stone are open for debate if valid proof to the contrary is brought to the fore (of course then the burden of proof is on the one erring against logic). Keep an open mind. Present both facts and opinions, but be as descriptive as possible, and state whether it is fact, opinion or theory to the best of your recollection. If we can form debates like this, without riddling the good arguments with 300 posts that are not to the point, it will allow for a reiteration and conclusion at the end, and EVERYONE BENEFITS.

4. Post to the point in debates and arguments. Much as I appreciate people saying "Big Cat your the best", and I'm sure many others here do to, and they are all equally thankful of your support, such posts do little to further the debate and usually only serve to frustrate the other side, leading to more altercations. I appreciate all the kudos I get, from all of you, and I'm sure I speak for all other people her who present information, but they will be equally meaningful and appreciated by PM or by rep as they are in threads, where they only clutter things up. That is not to say you can't throw in the odd remark in the 13-to-a-dozen threads.

5.Refrain from stupidity. Post OT threads all you want, but keep the bull**** out of serious threads. I'm giving an example that is plaguing the supp section right now, which is the repeated posting of the word "OWNED" after every point that is made, usually accompanied by a lame picture that looks like it was photo-shopped by a lobotomized 5-year old. Usually indicative of the IQ of the poster. Such posts not only clutter up relevant threads, they serve to incite one of more parties and eggs them on, and, more importantly, BB.com spends a lot of money on server space, this is not the way we like to see it used. Have a little decency, and extend fellow members a little respect and courtesy.

6.Educate yourself. Solid advice for a newbie, especially if they haven't read the rules of FAQ before posting. But for vets as well. Its not because some people think you are a big shot, or you think you are a big shot, or you get rep points simply for being the board elder, that you are really the ****. In my opinion the people who are the ****, are those that help fellow members and the board. The only way to do that is to keep bringing solid information. In the entertainment industry we see a lot of one-hit wonders, and they all fade in oblivion. Its no different here. Because you once educated newbies on the state of the art PCT 10 years ago, does not make you an expert or a vet or a guru. Try to be as helpful as you can. We DO appreciate people taking the time to re-adress issues over and over, god knows the questions keep coming back. But if you are bored and on the internet anyway, don't be shy to look something up and post it. You will gain more respect in the eyes of members and the board, even if not entirely correct.

7.Don't be afraid to ask questions. To balance the last point out, I wanted to add that its not because you ask a question, that you will somehow lose your all or not well-earned status of vet or pro. On the contrary, the answers you receive will help you determine which members are also smart and helpful, you further your own knowledge and in doing so, make yourself even more helpful and valued around this board.

8.Don't take anything at face value. BE CRITICAL. I can't stress that enough. Too many times people accuse me of just saying things, even though I take care to back up every word I say. I post the reasons and the proof for a reason, so you can verify it. Then verify it, if it is within your possibilities. I pride myself on being a good research scientist, but I'm not infallable. Nor is anyone else. Demand proof if something sounds fishy, especially if it goes against what is commonly accepted. DEMAND IT. Respect towards people is one thing, but they need to respect you as well. You come here to contribute and to learn. You can't learn unless people back up their arguments, otherwise its nothing but conjecture.


These are just some guidelines to follow, suggestions, that will allow people to see you for who you really are. A more valid measuring tool than all the posts and rep points in the world, and I for one will be basing future sanctions by reviewing people's last ten posts at the very least.

Please post your opinions below. This is a good place to start demonstrating your worth, so keep it civil. Everybody wants respect, so prove you are worth it. I've been here long enough to know the potential of this board. Let's work together and make it a place we all enjoy being.

[Big Cat]

PROTOCOL ADDENDUM 1 : COMPANY OWNERS AND REPS

A lot of the problems currently plaguing the board seem to be the result of company owners and company reps going at it. So I wanted to go over a few things so that we are all clear on a few things :

1.A company owner or rep should identify himself at all times. This is in the rules as well. Likewise it also helps if you clarify if you are one of the people who are testing a product and in return received that product for free. This too can cloud your judgment on matters and people reading your posts should be made aware of this.

2.Discussing a product openly speaks in your favour. You don’t owe anyone a fight to the death to defend an ingredient or product, in fact I don’t advise it, such arguments inevitably only lead to making people look bad and do more commercial damage than not interjecting at all. But it would help if companies were more open about why they chose for certain ingredients and formulations, what their exact claim is to what the product does and why they think it is superior to something else, when applicable.

3.Not discussing matters when there is nothing of importance to say will not be held against you, on the contrary, it will speak in your favour. I know the outrage of some members who may not like your company will sometimes demand you say something, but that isn’t always necessary to put it simply. If your reply serves as no more than a re-iteration of made statements, if it is provocative, or it basically clutters the thread up with no added value, it not only makes you look bad, in my opinion you are doing a disservice to the board.

4.Company owners, control your reps. I have a big problem with the whole rep issue because its basically taking people from the community with a pre-established reputation or post count, and turning that to your advantage. Twist and turn that every way you want, people on here jump at the chance to be a rep and it means a lot to them, whether they receive remuneration or not, it skews their vision of things in regards to your company’s products. These people represent you, if you cannot control their behaviour, especially in regards to your products, it reflects poorly on your, commercially, but also in regards to how we view your company as board moderators. It tells us that you either condone their disturbing of the peace, or you are unable to lead your company as you should.

5.Please do not take a critical discussion of your product or an ingredient as an insult or bad publicity. I will go on record now as saying that is not the case. Critical arguments against an ingredient or product are entirely within the context of that one product. It says nothing in regards to your other products, your ability to deal with situations, or in any way a comparison against another person’s product. Some less than ideal products become quite good in a consumer’s eyes if the price is right. And even if criticism has been brought against your product, it usually says something positive about its presence and profile, and doesn’t exclude the fact that there are many products out there that are far worse. The aim of the board and its discussions is not to convince someone to buy or not to buy, but rather provide the information so they can make that decision.

6.In regards to the previous point I would also like to point out that you are here courtesy of BB.com. This website provides you with a wide audience to present your products too, a large population of potential testers and all of this at no cost to you whatsoever. Please extend the website and its forum the courtesy it deserves by taking these points to heart. This is not your personal playground, this is not the place to blatantly pimp things, defending a product does not give you the right to clutter up a valuable thread and so on and so forth. Present facts, opinions, hypotheses and whatever supports them. The rest serves no other purpose than to disrupt the proper functioning of the boards.

Reminder : this too is just protocol, not rule. But we will be monitoring these events closely because we believe these issues are a large part of the problems on the board currently.

[Big Cat]

PROTOCOL ADDENDUM 2 : My Përsonal Moderating philosophy.

I can’t speak for other mods, but have faith in all my colleagues enough to know they will act in good conscience. These are my personal thoughts on how I moderate :

1.I believe in warning people. I find that apart from a few trolls most of you really do enjoy being part of this community, and want it to continue. If that is so you will agree that what is best for the board comes first. That’s why I will warn people once or twice when problems arise, because I firmly believe most of you are willing to hear the argument, listen and make the necessary changes. A warning is not a blame, it doesn’t shift the cause of a problem entirely on you. Its merely making clear that your behaviour is part of a problem and that you should think about making a change. Sadly, because of my extreme lenience in the past, people seem to not take my warnings seriously any more. When I see that sort of behaviour I will not hesitate to give you a short ban. I warn because I believe in the best of you. Do not take advantage of that.

2.Personal offenses will not count against you. There is more than one person on here who doesn’t like me. Some for how I acted in the past, some for moderating decisions they will not have agreed with because of a certain blind affinity for the person it affects. Your comments, however rude they are sometimes, will not count against you in anyway. Most of it may be unjust, once in a while a good point is made that makes me a better moderator. As rude as some of you are, and as much as that makes me want to ban you, I will not and will not even take it into account as any more than what is already listed in the main protocol (with regards to respect for others). When your transgressions bother decent members or impose in any way on the proper functioning of the board, I will however intervene immediately. That is my job as a moderator after all.

3.I believe in openness and honesty. I try to answer for what I do by explaining myself. A first statement in this regard is that none of the mods owe you this. We know from experience it only causes more problems than help them if we say anything at all. I do continue to do this as a courtesy to others. Please keep your comments in regards to it civil. Your complaints will be heard, preferably via PM. The second statement in this regard is that unlike in the past I will not keep repeating my explanation over and over again.

4.After 1 or 2 warnings, depending on the issue, you will be given a 1 or 2 week ban. This to make you think about whether you really want to be a part of this community and whether or not you are willing to do what it takes to be a contributing member. If you come back and do not adjust your attitude I will not hesistate to make that 1 or 2 months or even permanent. Because that would only prove you haven’t used that time at all to think, or that you feel this community doesn’t mean anything to you. Then you have no place here.

Because there seems to be a lot of problems in regards to the rep system and rep trading, and people neg repping to impose their will on others or make themselves feel important, we are working on a way to change people’s rep as well. We feel this will hit some of you harder than a warning or a ban.

[DejaBlue55]

ttt. good stuff BC

[uhockey]

Originally Posted by Big Cat

4.Company owners, control your reps. I have a big problem with the whole rep issue because its basically taking people from the community with a pre-established reputation or post count, and turning that to your advantage. Twist and turn that every way you want, people on here jump at the chance to be a rep and it means a lot to them, whether they receive remuneration or not, it skews their vision of things in regards to your company’s products. These people represent you, if you cannot control their behaviour, especially in regards to your products, it reflects poorly on your, commercially, but also in regards to how we view your company as board moderators. It tells us that you either condone their disturbing of the peace, or you are unable to lead your company as you should.

No offense intended, but you should note that some of us (or maybe just myself) have remained quite objective despite our affiliation. Yes, I answer DS questions and recommend DS products, but never through slanted judgement. If I feel the product may benefit a board member, I'll suggest it. I've also taken it upon myself to test a number of other companies products and OFTEN suggest products not affiliated with our company in ANY way.

Being a rep means next to nothing to my long term life-goals, I do this because I enjoy it, because I believe strongly in our products, and because the people at DS are quality individuals.

This idea of protocol is excellent and should prevent things like the GMS incident.

IMO, however, the RANT thread is full of inappropriate commentary (similar to JSM in the past) and should either be moved to the misc. section or eliminated entirely to comply with the protocol of the SUPPLEMENT section.

[r1ddl3r]

Bump

[jkeithc82]

Originally Posted by uhockey

No offense intended, but you should note that some of us (or maybe just myself) have remained quite objective despite our affiliation. Yes, I answer DS questions and recommend DS products, but never through slanted judgement. If I feel the product may benefit a board member, I'll suggest it. I've also taken it upon myself to test a number of other companies products and OFTEN suggest products not affiliated with our company in ANY way.

I believe in this quote myself

[Blap Blaow]

Originally Posted by uhockey

IMO, however, the RANT thread is full of inappropriate commentary (similar to JSM in the past) and should either be moved to the misc. section or eliminated entirely to comply with the protocol of the SUPPLEMENT section.

I agree

[dp13368]

Originally Posted by uhockey

IMO, however, the RANT thread is full of inappropriate commentary (similar to JSM in the past) and should either be moved to the misc. section or eliminated entirely to comply with the protocol of the SUPPLEMENT section.

I agree and good information BC, bump.

[Big Cat]

Originally Posted by uhockey

No offense intended, but you should note that some of us (or maybe just myself) have remained quite objective despite our affiliation. Yes, I answer DS questions and recommend DS products, but never through slanted judgement. If I feel the product may benefit a board member, I'll suggest it. I've also taken it upon myself to test a number of other companies products and OFTEN suggest products not affiliated with our company in ANY way.

Being a rep means next to nothing to my long term life-goals, I do this because I enjoy it, because I believe strongly in our products, and because the people at DS are quality individuals.

This idea of protocol is excellent and should prevent things like the GMS incident.

IMO, however, the RANT thread is full of inappropriate commentary (similar to JSM in the past) and should either be moved to the misc. section or eliminated entirely to comply with the protocol of the SUPPLEMENT section.

As is indicated, this is protocol. If you adhere to it, it will become obvious to us as well. So don't worry, this is to adress the observed problems, not to blame anyone.

[dito]

I am not reading all of that! Anyone want to give me a summary?

[BiggJohn]

Originally Posted by dito

I am not reading all of that! Anyone want to give me a summary?

Reminds me of...

[dito]

Seems fair enough.

[DejaBlue55]

Originally Posted by uhockey

IMO, however, the RANT thread is full of inappropriate commentary (similar to JSM in the past) and should either be moved to the misc. section or eliminated entirely to comply with the protocol of the SUPPLEMENT section.

Oh please, we discuss supplements everyday.

[R_N_S]

we actually do, only cause I think about supplements 24/7 tho

[Blap Blaow]

Originally Posted by Chronicdrummer9

Oh please, we discuss supplements everyday.

[DejaBlue55]

Originally Posted by Blap Blaow

We actually do...

[Blap Blaow]

Originally Posted by Chronicdrummer9

We actually do...

sorry, I must've missed it in all the chatter and rep-trading. My bad.

[R_N_S]

we just got a warning about the rep trading; that's not a problem now.

The thread hasn't been a problem for a few months, how's it all of a sudden such a pain in the ass.

[dito]

I think if it's allowed to stay up, then the JSM thread should be brought back as well. Fair is fair.

[DejaBlue55]

Originally Posted by Blap Blaow

sorry, I must've missed it in all the chatter and rep-trading. My bad.

Rep-trading? I don't think so bud.

Don't be jealous you're not part of the Rant Inquisition.

[Blap Blaow]

Originally Posted by rippednshredded

we just got a warning about the rep trading; that's not a problem now.

Originally Posted by Chronicdrummer9

Rep-trading? I don't think so bud.

[fitnfirm]

Is the Rant thread actually causing harm to anyone? Has anyone actually suffered from a visit to the Rant? I see alot of threads were people talk off topic, and it is called the RANT, isnt that what its for? Although there is alot of discussion in there about supps and diet and WO, I think its helped alot people from jumping board to board searching for answers. Its like a visit to the doctor get everything in one place sorta say.

[DejaBlue55]

Originally Posted by Blap Blaow

That was a month or two ago, look at our reps, it's self-explanatory we can't do rep-trading, none of us are mega-rep powered like Dito and the like. Wouldn't do much getting a few hundred every 30 days would it? I don't think so.

[Blap Blaow]

Originally Posted by fitnfirm

Is the Rant thread actually causing harm to anyone? Has anyone actually suffered from a visit to the Rant? I see alot of threads were people talk off topic, and it is called the RANT, isnt that what its for? Although there is alot of discussion in there about supps and diet and WO, I think its helped alot people from jumping board to board searching for answers. Its like a visit to the doctor get everything in one place sorta say.

in other words, the topics discussed there are MISCELLANEOUS in nature...

[DejaBlue55]

Originally Posted by Blap Blaow

in other words, the topics discussed there are MISCELLANEOUS in nature...

Oh please.

[bfr290]

Originally Posted by uhockey

IMO, however, the RANT thread is full of inappropriate commentary (similar to JSM in the past) and should either be moved to the misc. section or eliminated entirely to comply with the protocol of the SUPPLEMENT section.

Bump

[fitnfirm]

They say supplements are maybe only 10% of the total benefit of health, so I guess that would be considered misc. We all know exercise and diet are 90%.

[Mister_A]

Good read. Hope everybody can take the time to read it too.

[Blap Blaow]

so what exactly are the objections to moving the RANT to the misc? Dosn't it make far more sense than having it here?