The more Muslims read the Quran, the more violent they become.

[Power-Quest]

Hal Lindsey proclaims:
Islam a violent religion
On national TV, Christian author declares most Muslims don't read Quran very much

Posted: January 11, 2006 5:39 a.m. Eastern

Christian author Hal Lindsey proclaimed on national television last night that Islam is a violent religion, with many believers becoming more "radical" the more they read the Muslim holy book, the Quran.

"When someone becomes devout and they begin to get really into the Quran and they begin to study what it really teaches, they become what we call a fundamentalist or a radical because the Quran itself and the Hadith teaches violence," Lindsey said on "Hannity & Colmes" on the Fox News Channel. "There are 109 verses that we sometimes call war verses ... these are the verses that the radicals begin to take seriously and they begin to want to overthrow Western civilization."

Lindsey was a guest on Fox after WorldNetDaily broke a series of stories about the best-selling non-fiction writer who is in a dispute with the Trinity Broadcasting Network over the content of his own twice-weekly Christian commentary program, "The International Intelligence Briefing," because of what he considers to be efforts to muzzle his opinions about radical Islam.

"After 9-11, I really studied Islam, studied the Quran, studied what they're teaching and especially why there was a difference between the moderate Muslims and those who were radical," Lindsey said last night. "I saw that there was a tremendous danger facing this country that many Americans really didn't seem to be seeing. So I started warning that radical Islam was at war with the United States, and that the threat was as great as any enemy we'd ever faced."

Co-host Alan Colmes asked Lindsey straight out: "Islam is a radical religion in your view?"

"It is," Lindsey responded. "It's kind of like most Christians don't read the Bible very much. I believe most Muslims don't read the Quran very much. That's why most Muslims are not radical, but when someone begins to really study the Quran and they begin to read the 109 verses that call for violence and war, they become very, very different. They become radical, they feel that they need to convert people by force."

Lindsey, author of "The Late Great Planet Earth" and many other best-selling books and a weekly columnist for WND, has anchored his own program for the last 12 years on the world's largest Christian network, founded by evangelist Paul Crouch, whom Lindsey says remains his friend.

As WND exclusively reported Jan. 3, Lindsey announced he would not go back to his show following an an abrupt six-week suspension of the popular TBN-sponsored program by Jan Crouch, TBN's vice president for programming.

Though John Casoria, TBN's general counsel first told WorldNetDaily the show's suspension was simply a traditional hiatus in lieu of seasonal programming, that statement was later revised to confirm that the network believed Lindsey's program "placed Arabs in a negative light."

Lindsey responded to this allegation: "I don't have to cast radical Muslims in a bad light. If the intimidation and persecution of moderate Muslims makes radical Islam look bad, that is because it is bad – not that I 'cast' them in a bad light. But I have never cast the Arabs as a race in a bad light."

Casoria said he could not recall specific examples from Lindsey's programs that were anti-Arab or anti-Muslim, but he expressed the network's concern about how Muslims are portrayed.

"TBN is a worldwide ministry; we have an entire channel that airs 24 hours a day, seven days a week in Arabic," he said. "We are trying to reach the Islamic world and open a dialogue with them regarding Christ and Christianity."

Casoria explained, "We do not feel that the best witness of Christ is to bash them but rather to show them the nature of Christ – the way Christ said to present himself – and that is through love, understanding and the presentation of the gospel to them."

Lindsey argued, however, his program is not shown in the Middle East.

"My show is produced for the Western world and for Christians who are at the most risk from radical Islam," he said.

Lindsey has been associated with TBN since its inception in the early 1970s.

He told WND that he has "no ax to grind" with TBN, saying, "I've been happy with my opportunities for ministry at TBN. I'm thankful for the platform TBN gave me. I will speak at the gates of hell as long as they don't tell me what to say. But it appears that they are now telling me what not to say – so sadly, it's time to move on."

Lindsey also announced that he is taking his popular television program to other outlets beginning in early February. His new half-hour news and commentary series will be called "The Hal Lindsey Report." A new video version of it will also be streamed on Lindsey's website.

When the New York Times surveyed all book sales for the decade of the 1970s, it found that Lindsey's had far outsold all other authors. His "Late Great Planet Earth" alone sold more than 32 million copies.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=48298

[Jeremy1]

Originally Posted by Power-Quest

Hal Lindsey proclaims:
Islam a violent religion
On national TV, Christian author declares most Muslims don't read Quran very much

Posted: January 11, 2006 5:39 a.m. Eastern

Christian author Hal Lindsey proclaimed on national television last night that Islam is a violent religion, with many believers becoming more "radical" the more they read the Muslim holy book, the Quran.

"When someone becomes devout and they begin to get really into the Quran and they begin to study what it really teaches, they become what we call a fundamentalist or a radical because the Quran itself and the Hadith teaches violence," Lindsey said on "Hannity & Colmes" on the Fox News Channel. "There are 109 verses that we sometimes call war verses ... these are the verses that the radicals begin to take seriously and they begin to want to overthrow Western civilization."

Lindsey was a guest on Fox after WorldNetDaily broke a series of stories about the best-selling non-fiction writer who is in a dispute with the Trinity Broadcasting Network over the content of his own twice-weekly Christian commentary program, "The International Intelligence Briefing," because of what he considers to be efforts to muzzle his opinions about radical Islam.

"After 9-11, I really studied Islam, studied the Quran, studied what they're teaching and especially why there was a difference between the moderate Muslims and those who were radical," Lindsey said last night. "I saw that there was a tremendous danger facing this country that many Americans really didn't seem to be seeing. So I started warning that radical Islam was at war with the United States, and that the threat was as great as any enemy we'd ever faced."

Co-host Alan Colmes asked Lindsey straight out: "Islam is a radical religion in your view?"

"It is," Lindsey responded. "It's kind of like most Christians don't read the Bible very much. I believe most Muslims don't read the Quran very much. That's why most Muslims are not radical, but when someone begins to really study the Quran and they begin to read the 109 verses that call for violence and war, they become very, very different. They become radical, they feel that they need to convert people by force."

Lindsey, author of "The Late Great Planet Earth" and many other best-selling books and a weekly columnist for WND, has anchored his own program for the last 12 years on the world's largest Christian network, founded by evangelist Paul Crouch, whom Lindsey says remains his friend.

As WND exclusively reported Jan. 3, Lindsey announced he would not go back to his show following an an abrupt six-week suspension of the popular TBN-sponsored program by Jan Crouch, TBN's vice president for programming.

Though John Casoria, TBN's general counsel first told WorldNetDaily the show's suspension was simply a traditional hiatus in lieu of seasonal programming, that statement was later revised to confirm that the network believed Lindsey's program "placed Arabs in a negative light."

Lindsey responded to this allegation: "I don't have to cast radical Muslims in a bad light. If the intimidation and persecution of moderate Muslims makes radical Islam look bad, that is because it is bad – not that I 'cast' them in a bad light. But I have never cast the Arabs as a race in a bad light."

Casoria said he could not recall specific examples from Lindsey's programs that were anti-Arab or anti-Muslim, but he expressed the network's concern about how Muslims are portrayed.

"TBN is a worldwide ministry; we have an entire channel that airs 24 hours a day, seven days a week in Arabic," he said. "We are trying to reach the Islamic world and open a dialogue with them regarding Christ and Christianity."

Casoria explained, "We do not feel that the best witness of Christ is to bash them but rather to show them the nature of Christ – the way Christ said to present himself – and that is through love, understanding and the presentation of the gospel to them."

Lindsey argued, however, his program is not shown in the Middle East.

"My show is produced for the Western world and for Christians who are at the most risk from radical Islam," he said.

Lindsey has been associated with TBN since its inception in the early 1970s.

He told WND that he has "no ax to grind" with TBN, saying, "I've been happy with my opportunities for ministry at TBN. I'm thankful for the platform TBN gave me. I will speak at the gates of hell as long as they don't tell me what to say. But it appears that they are now telling me what not to say – so sadly, it's time to move on."

Lindsey also announced that he is taking his popular television program to other outlets beginning in early February. His new half-hour news and commentary series will be called "The Hal Lindsey Report." A new video version of it will also be streamed on Lindsey's website.

When the New York Times surveyed all book sales for the decade of the 1970s, it found that Lindsey's had far outsold all other authors. His "Late Great Planet Earth" alone sold more than 32 million copies.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=48298

I happen to agree with Lindsey. "Radical" Islam is a redundancy.

[de silva]

Conservatives need to start answering allegations that they are "offending" someone with "Yes, and?".

Truth often is offensive to those unaware of it, or believing its antithesis. Thus far, the ruling liberal paradigm has been "better dead than rude". We need to reject this and zero in on the issues facing us.

"We" basically means conservatives. Liberals have their heads too far in the clouds. They're not even in the ball game. Forget about converting them. We need to make sure that conservatives consistently reject liberal worldviews that society expects them to adhere to. Those worldviews are proving to be bunk - we are better off without them. If it means sounding "offensive", so be it.

[de silva]

I should add, some Muslims desperately do want to reform Islam and read the Koran to think of ways to do it. These types are a minority, though. Most who read it (in a language they actually understand, not just memorizing the Arabic) probably become more radical in the act.

This wouldn't be any particular problem were it not for the fact that the essential aim of Islam is to rule the world, to conquer it for Allah and the Prophet. That sounds pretty conspiratorial, but it's true. That's why Islamic radicals do what they do.

[aiwass]

And there are no violent tendencies in the Bible? At least the Muslims follow their scripture, rather than ignore it...

[Power-Quest]

Great reply de silva , you are right it seems as though the left is part of the problem and not the solution ,since the left and our enemy seem to compliment each other (my opinion).

Anyways i could careless about religeon , i think God is a personal relationship between him and i , and not a book or the word/opinion of some other man/woman.

i know what god expects from me and a lot of it is just common since , good , honesty , do on to others as you would like to have done on to you and so on. Just rambling thanks for listening.

[Power-Quest]

Originally Posted by aiwass

And there are no violent tendencies in the Bible? At least the Muslims follow their scripture, rather than ignore it...

Thats why i don't do religion , don't get me wrong i think christians can and have also been violent , they would love nothing more than to convince everyone there way is the only way.

I love god ,but i hate religion.

Religion for me is between me and god and no other man or book. When i can smell it , taste it ,touch it or see it , is when i believe it.

[A & B]

Well, I have no doubt that fundamentalist Islamic believers read the Qu'ran with much greater frequency than moderates. The same would go for Fundamentalist Christians, or radical Jewish extremists.

But the underpinnings of this article (if I'm understanding it correctly) is that a Muslim who begins to read the Qu'ran more often will necessarily gravitate towards the more extremist/violent interpretation of Islam. I take issue with that. There are of course "war verses" as the author puts it, in the Qu'ran, no doubt. But there are also so-called "war verses" in the Christian and Hebrew Bibles, in pretty much any religious texts you would find these kinds of calls for violence.

Do all Muslims who read the Qu'ran regularly agree with a fundamentalist/violent perspective? Of course not, that's just a crock. Do all Christians or Jews who read the OT or the Talmud agree with the violence contained within their respective texts? Of course not.

Obviously however, extremists do. But this is a commonality of extremist thought.

But the conclusion (if it can be called that) that a more frequent reading of the Qu'ran leads in and of itself to a extremist mindset, is pure speculation on the part of the author.

[de silva]

Originally Posted by aiwass

And there are no violent tendencies in the Bible? At least the Muslims follow their scripture, rather than ignore it...

That's why it's instructive to look at the "essence" of the religions, to see what a "stripped down" version of the religion might look like.

With Christianity, the basic message is that we are all sinners, and destined to die, or perhaps even suffer in the afterlife, and that through faith in Christ we can be saved. That's pretty much it. It doesn't necessarily involve bothering anyone.

With Islam, it's two fold: it's living your daily life by Shariah (a bunch of primitive religious laws) and always aiming to advance Islam until it establishes sovereignty over all the world. That's why it's so hard to imagine a stripped down version of Islam that ignores either of these two essential elements. It just doesn't look much like Islam if you take that out of it. But with keeping that in it, it makes it very difficult for Islam to peacefully coexist with others - which is why it's a problem. I'm not saying this is how most Muslims live. Clearly, they don't. But then "Muslim" is really just an identity for them. The only reason they can get away with living the way they do and still call themselves Muslim is because they never try to set down in concrete terms exactly what it is they believe. That's why all this talk about finding a "moderate Islam" isn't really producing any results - the moment they try to establish just what they mean it either becomes obvious that that's "not really Islam" or that that's "not really reform". Rock and a hard place.

[de silva]

Obviously however, extremists do. But this is a commonality of extremist thought.

But is there a commonality of result, with respect to violence? Clearly not. That one is a one man show.

[A & B]

Originally Posted by de silva

That's why it's instructive to look at the "essence" of the religions, to see what a "stripped down" version of the religion might look like.

With Christianity, the basic message is that we are all sinners, and destined to die, or perhaps even suffer in the afterlife, and that through faith in Christ we can be saved. That's pretty much it. It doesn't necessarily involve bothering anyone.

With Islam, it's two fold: it's living your daily life by Shariah (a bunch of primitive religious laws) and always aiming to advance Islam until it establishes sovereignty over all the world. That's why it's so hard to imagine a stripped down version of Islam that ignores either of these two essential elements. It just doesn't look much like Islam if you take that out of it. But with keeping that in it, it makes it very difficult for Islam to peacefully coexist with others - which is why it's a problem. I'm not saying this is how most Muslims live. Clearly, they don't. But then "Muslim" is really just an identity for them. The only reason they can get away with living the way they do and still call themselves Muslim is because they never try to set down in concrete terms exactly what it is they believe. That's why all this talk about finding a "moderate Islam" isn't really producing any results - the moment they try to establish just what they mean it either becomes obvious that that's "not really Islam" or that that's "not really reform". Rock and a hard place.

You are giving one interpretation of Christianity as a "stripped down" version of it. Next, you are giving one interpretation of Islam as a "stripped down" version of it. How much of the Qu'ran have you read? How much Islamic study have you done?

All you're doing is giving an oversimplified, and partially ignorant spat about two religions... How is that helpful at all? Instructive? I don't think so.

[A & B]

Originally Posted by de silva

But is there a commonality of result, with respect to violence? Clearly not. That one is a one man show.

What does this mean?

[de silva]

Originally Posted by A & B

How much of the Qu'ran have you read? How much Islamic study have you done?

Realistically, probably a hell of a lot more than you or any non-Muslim on here.

All you're doing is giving an oversimplified, and partially ignorant spat about two religions... How is that helpful at all? Instructive? I don't think so.

Look, if you're not a Christian and you're not a Muslim, what, more than anything, do you want from those religions? That they leave you alone to live your life unmolested, right?

Supposedly, neither of them do at the moment. Then let's look at a version of each religion, stripped down to its barest essentials and see whether that version might provide us the peace we seek.

Basically, you want to take the religion down until only its most essential parts are left. At some point, you go "too far" and no one would honestly believe that it's still Christianity or still Islam.

I probably left a bit too much in my stripped Islam version. You could probably do without Shariah, but trying to redefine Islam's mission into one which doesn't require world domination is going to be very hard.

See, essentially, Christianity demands your soul, whereas Islam demands your land. It's been probably the most essential part of Islam since its inception. How (and why) else do you think Islam "spread" - ie invaded - in the years immediately following Mohammed's death?

I'd love to see an Islam that no longer felt it had to "win" anything or anyone for Islam. Then I'd be about as worried about it as I am today of fundamentalist Buddhism.

[de silva]

Originally Posted by A & B

What does this mean?

Well, you said:

Do all Muslims who read the Qu'ran regularly agree with a fundamentalist/violent perspective? Of course not, that's just a crock. Do all Christians or Jews who read the OT or the Talmud agree with the violence contained within their respective texts? Of course not.

Obviously however, extremists do. But this is a commonality of extremist thought.

Supposedly, even though not all Muslims, Christians or Jews agree with "the violence contained within in their respective texts", some do agree with it. This is the "commonality of extremist thougth" that you say you see.

What I am asking you is, given that there are extremists in all three of the above religions, does this "extremist thought" manifest itself in physical violence by perpetrators from all three faiths?

We know there are violent Islamists. Yet how many violent "Christianists" - bred on a diet of Biblical violence - do we see? That is what I am asking you: do the results of this "commonality of extremist thought" reflect a "commonality of extremist violence.

[mahmoud mohamed]

Well, well, it seems this kind of debates never ends

So lets look and concise what have been said by some members here:

1) Islam seeks world domination?
2) The holy Quran encourages violence?
3) Violent moslims extremists are more than other, and have done more crimes?
4) We should reform Islam?
5) We must look at the core of religion, and when we look at the core of Islam we can't find except seeking world domination?


ah, a tired one, are there any more claims?

Well, shall we define these stereotype words, or shall we just see what the holy Quran commands us.

Or shall we just get into the first 13 years of Islam (the message took only 23 years)

For the ones who don't know these first 13 years Islam was commanding moslims not to raise a single knife against any one even the ones who insult, injure, even kills us, even injuring the prophet (pbuh) himself.

What happened to the first christians happened to moslims, torture, seage for years, killing, humiliating, etc

So when the holy Quraan commanded moslims to fight, When they were totally expelled from their homes, every thing stolen from them, and then the preparation for eliminating them was on hand. (well, how violent of muslims to fight for their own existence, and their families).
But did the holy Quraan just told them to fight, NO, Before the the first verse in the holy Quraan about fighting it commands moslims to do not transgress limits, the verses clearly indicates warriors only to fight not civilian casualties.

This topic has been much illustrated in the forum, but i guess many don't even care to read,

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...9&postcount=71

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=437828



And as for other extremists less than moslim extremists?, count the casualties and compare, Serbian extremists (You can't deny the role of christian orthodox extremism in association with the greed for land), ha , Nazi extremists, Russian extremists, Have you counted the french king chareman killing 1/4 of germanian (germany today) people to force the rest to christianity, have you count how many killings were made under the name of christainity while religious freedom was prevailing in moslim lands, while non moslims took many times leading positions in the government itself. And we are not going to talk about crusades and their crimes, and how whole moslims cities killed to the last infant. Or wasn't killing more civilians to save more soldiers the war strategy for most western armies till a very near time, (Well, can we count vietnam, hiroshima, nagasaki, etc and for Egypt before, alexandria, porsaid, etc, if i continued counting it will take the whole page)


And ah, how you say the Islam only seeks world domination when it commands moslims to make peace with the enemy as long as he wants to make peace even if he is deceiving.

Holy Quran, sura 8 Al Anfal.

61 And if they incline to peace, incline thou also to it, and trust in Allah (God). Lo! He is the Hearer, the knower.
62 And if they would deceive thee, then lo! Allah (God)is sufficient for thee. He it is Who supporteth thee with His help and with the believers.

When it says that God created people to be different and know each other (see signature below).



And ah, some talk about the history of moslims defeating the Roman and Persian empires without even looking at history just saying it was invasion.

Here is a hint

Do you know that the Roman and Persian empires were preparing to invade Arabia for the purpose of eliminating the new religion, do you know that the first battle moslims were only 3000 while romans were 200,000, Moata battle. I guess you don't.

What Islam commands us regarding war is exactly what the US is claiming to do today, ironically. To fight for defense of our country against invaders, and fight for Freedom Especially religious freedom.

OR you forgot that all religions were living very peacefully in moslims lands while humiliated in Europ. Or shall I remind you how even jews were living among moslims peacefully running away form European discrimination.

But I guess no one cares to read even before making baseless claims.

[Dr Triceps]

Originally Posted by mahmoud mohamed

Well, well, it seems this kind of debates never ends

So lets look and concise what have been said by some members here:

1) Islam seeks world domination?
2) The holy Quran encourages violence?
3) Violent moslims extremists are more than other, and have done more crimes?
4) We should reform Islam?
5) We must look at the core of religion, and when we look at the core of Islam we can't find except seeking world domination?


ah, a tired one, are there any more claims?

Well, shall we define these stereotype words, or shall we just see what the holy Quran commands us.

Or shall we just get into the first 13 years of Islam (the message took only 23 years)

For the ones who don't know these first 13 years Islam was commanding moslims not to raise a single knife against any one even the ones who insult, injure, even kills us, even injuring the prophet (pbuh) himself.

What happened to the first christians happened to moslims, torture, seage for years, killing, humiliating, etc

So when the holy Quraan commanded moslims to fight, When they were totally expelled from their homes, every thing stolen from them, and then the preparation for eliminating them was on hand. (well, how violent of muslims to fight for their own existence, and their families).
But did the holy Quraan just told them to fight, NO, Before the the first verse in the holy Quraan about fighting it commands moslims to do not transgress limits, the verses clearly indicates warriors only to fight not civilian casualties.

This topic has been much illustrated in the forum, but i guess many don't even care to read,

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...9&postcount=71

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=437828



And as for other extremists less than moslim extremists?, count the casualties and compare, Serbian extremists (You can't deny the role of christian orthodox extremism in association with the greed for land), ha , Nazi extremists, Russian extremists, Have you counted the french king chareman killing 1/4 of germanian (germany today) people to force the rest to christianity, have you count how many killings were made under the name of christainity while religious freedom was prevailing in moslim lands, while non moslims took many times leading positions in the government itself. And we are not going to talk about crusades and their crimes, and how whole moslims cities killed to the last infant. Or wasn't killing more civilians to save more soldiers the war strategy for most western armies till a very near time, (Well, can we count vietnam, hiroshima, nagasaki, etc and for Egypt before, alexandria, porsaid, etc, if i continued counting it will take the whole page)


And ah, how you say the Islam only seeks world domination when it commands moslims to make peace with the enemy as long as he wants to make peace even if he is deceiving.

Holy Quran, sura 8 Al Anfal.

61 And if they incline to peace, incline thou also to it, and trust in Allah (God). Lo! He is the Hearer, the knower.
62 And if they would deceive thee, then lo! Allah (God)is sufficient for thee. He it is Who supporteth thee with His help and with the believers.

When it says that God created people to be different and know each other (see signature below).



And ah, some talk about the history of moslims defeating the Roman and Persian empires without even looking at history just saying it was invasion.

Here is a hint

Do you know that the Roman and Persian empires were preparing to invade Arabia for the purpose of eliminating the new religion, do you know that the first battle moslims were only 3000 while romans were 200,000, Moata battle. I guess you don't.

What Islam commands us regarding war is exactly what the US is claiming to do today, ironically. To fight for defense of our country against invaders, and fight for Freedom Especially religious freedom.

OR you forgot that all religions were living very peacefully in moslims lands while humiliated in Europ. Or shall I remind you how even jews were living among moslims peacefully running away form European discrimination.

But I guess no one cares to read even before making baseless claims.

It doesn't matter what one religion or philosophy did in the past, what matters is the present. And these times have one dominant worldwide threat- Radical Islamists. And seeing as the typical Muslim isn't taking control of their wayward believers it falls into our hands. Our solution? Take control of your lands and see if the affluence of capitalism can change their thinking. If not, then they will be blown to bits. It's simple really. And there is nothing in the world that will stop us. Nothing.

[SYRIANKID]

Where do people get the idea that most Muslims don't read the Qur'an?

Every Mosque I've ever been to has people reading the Qur'an and memorizing it. An average Muslim completes the Qur'an once a month, and the best every week or 3 days. The minimum is twice a year.

[kinikee]

Originally Posted by SYRIANKID

Where do people get the idea that most Muslims don't read the Qur'an?

Every Mosque I've ever been to has people reading the Qur'an and memorizing it. An average Muslim completes the Qur'an once a month, and the best every week or 3 days. The minimum is twice a year.

the more literally someone takes a religious text, the more out of touch they're going to be with modern society and the more radical their beliefs.

[SYRIANKID]

Originally Posted by kinikee

the more literally someone takes a religious text, the more out of touch they're going to be with modern society and the more radical their beliefs.

Can you give a specific example from the Islamic perspective? Define out of touch...not following trends? Not smoking up and clubbing on the weekends? Give us a list of the "negative" effects of living a life of debauchery.

Use me, since like every other practicing Muslim I take the Qur'an literally as the Word of God .

[Muscle D]

The Koran says not only for a Muslim to not befriend a Jew or a Christian, but to kill them:

"O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people." (Sura 5.51)

"And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers." (Sura 2.191)

But, Jesus said to love one another, including those who hate you:

"Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbor, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;" (Matthew 5:43-44)

The Bible further corroborates Jesus' statement, and directly contradicts the Koran:

"Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him." (1 John 3:15)

[AntonToo]

"Religion is bad sht mmk kids?"

Good religion is dead religion - like the hommeric gods - Zeus and Hercules rule

[kinikee]

Originally Posted by SYRIANKID

Can you give a specific example from the Islamic perspective? Define out of touch...not following trends? Not smoking up and clubbing on the weekends? Give us a list of the "negative" effects of living a life of debauchery.

Use me, since like every other practicing Muslim I take the Qur'an literally as the Word of God .

hmmmm there are enough examples. The Qur'an doesn't look very highly upon women, if taken literally women really have no chance to seek out their own destiny according to that culture apart from their husband women have no individual identity or rights.

That is one of my major problems with Islam. I don't care if it's your religion the way Islam views women is totally out of touch with modern society. If you want to keep them oppressed without any voice aside from their husbands and enforce their roles as nothing more than child bearers and housekeepers thats fine but go and do it in some barren desert in the middle east not in a developed country with progressive beliefs.

[SYRIANKID]

Originally Posted by kinikee

hmmmm there are enough examples. The Qur'an doesn't look very highly upon women, if taken literally women really have no chance to seek out their own destiny according to that culture apart from their husband women have no individual identity or rights.

Can you give a specific example of the above? What do you mean women have no individual rights, examples please.

Are the laws that govern men and women different? Obviously. The laws favour women in matters of religion and finances, and favours men in matters related to marriage, divorce, and public nudity. Those personal rights like private ownership are no different, in fact as far as I recall, most private property in Saudi Arabia for example, is owned by women.

[Seraphil]

its funny how people can speak about islam but have so little knowledge about it. i am not an expert on the bible, the koran, or the torah/talmud so i try avoid commenting about them. Some of you morons who obviously have little knowledge about islam shouldnt be spewing garbage that makes you look like fools.

[Vargas]

Power-Quest:- You have made one of the most stupid, ignorant threads I have ever come accross on the net.

Like really...can you honestly be that ignorant to post such a ridiculously ignorant thread? Honestly???

[2 Scoops]

I am a christian. SK is a muslim. We are friends, we talk from time to time. To the best of my knowledge, he has no plans to kill me.

[SYRIANKID]

Originally Posted by 2 Scoops

I am a christian. SK is a muslim. We are friends, we talk from time to time. To the best of my knowledge, he has no plans to kill me.

"Liberal propaganda! Political correctness!"

[de silva]

I am a christian. SK is a muslim. We are friends, we talk from time to time. To the best of my knowledge, he has no plans to kill me.

No, but if takes the Koran as seriously as he says, you can be sure he has other plans (that if you knew about, probably wouldn't be to your liking).

[mahmoud mohamed]

Originally Posted by Dr Triceps

It doesn't matter what one religion or philosophy did in the past, what matters is the present. And these times have one dominant worldwide threat- Radical Islamists. And seeing as the typical Muslim isn't taking control of their wayward believers it falls into our hands. Our solution? Take control of your lands and see if the affluence of capitalism can change their thinking. If not, then they will be blown to bits. It's simple really. And there is nothing in the world that will stop us. Nothing.

Considering the last sentence, How old are you, really, with no offence.

[mahmoud mohamed]

Originally Posted by Muscle D

The Koran says not only for a Muslim to not befriend a Jew or a Christian, but to kill them:

"O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people." (Sura 5.51)

"And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers." (Sura 2.191)

But, Jesus said to love one another, including those who hate you:

"Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbor, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;" (Matthew 5:43-44)

The Bible further corroborates Jesus' statement, and directly contradicts the Koran:

"Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him." (1 John 3:15)

Haven't you people got bored with twisting known facts and getting incomplete verses separated from the previous and following verse.

Originally Posted by Muscle D

"And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers." (Sura 2.191)

Intentionally separated from the very verse before it (190) commanding moslims to Fight only who fight us and Not transgress limits.
Have you read the links,

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=437828

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...9&postcount=71

I suppose you ignored reading.

Originally Posted by Muscle D

"O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people." (Sura 5.51)

Again misunderstanding of the Arabic language, The word is ''Aolyaa'' meaning protecting friend, meaning military Ally, etc.

Not normal human brotherhood dealing, not even love, it is permissible for moslim to marry christian or jew.

Holy Quran SURA 3: AL.'IMRAN
113 - Not all of them are alike: of the people of the book are a portion that stand (for the right); they rehearse the signs of Allah (God) all night long, and they prostrate themselves in adoration
114 - They believe in Allah (God) and the last day; they enjoin what is right, and forbid what is wrong; and they hasten (in emulation) in (all) good works: they are in the ranks of the righteous
115 - Of the Allah (God) that they do, nothing will be rejected of them; for Allah (God) knoweth well those that do right.


Holy Quran SURA 5: MA'IDAH
5 - This day are (all) things good and pure made lawful unto you. the food of the people of the book is lawful unto you and yours is lawful unto them. (lawful) unto in marriage) are (not only) chaste women who are believers, but chaste women among the people of the book, revealed before your time, when you give them their due dowers, and desire chastity, not lewdness, nor secret intrigues. if any one rejects faith, fruitless is his work, and in the hereafter he will be in the ranks of those who have lost (all spiritual good).

The prohibition is for taking a military ally, or taking non moslim as an ally on other moslim, etc.

And of course it indicates that you can't tell military secrets to non moslim even if he is your dearest friend. This is logic.

Islam makes the moslim have love for all mankind, it makes the moslim talkes to every one with love, and wish for best for him (of course including wishing him to be a moslims with respect for his choice).
Have you even read the first chapter (Sura) in the Holy Qraan which moslims must read in all prayers (The fateha,), again I guess you haven't bothered yourself.

SURA 1: FATIHAH
1 - In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful
2 - Praise be to God, The Cherisher and Sustainer of the Worlds
3 - Most Gracious, Most Merciful
4 - Master of the Day of judgment
5 - Thee do we worship, And Thine aid we seek
6 - Show us the straight way
7 - The Way of those on Whom Thou hast bestowed Thy Grace, Those Whose (potion) Is not Wrath, And Who go not astray

If you heard it in Arabic, its rhythm is better than the best relaxing melody,

The second verse:

2 - Praise be to God, The Cherisher and Sustainer of the Worlds

The sentence The Cherisher and Sustainer of the Worlds, in Arabic is ''rab alalamin'', meaning he is the lord of all humans, animals and all creation, he is their provider with life, the only feeling from this is love for all God creation.

Any one who have just read this small chapter with relax can never commit a crime or even hurt a fly. This is an instant psychological feeling that gathers any person.
Remember that reading with relax and thinking is an order in the holy Quran for moslims.