Palenstinian Terrorism 1993 to 1999

[bryan361]

In the threads about Palenstinian peace there were some questions as to the claim that the terrorists were active prior to 2000. With so much on the evening news these days it is impossible to remember all the reports over the past decade and with daily reports of terrorist attacks it becomes easy to tune them out or for media outside Israel to just not publish the attacks. I have compiled reports of these attacks culled from numerous Israeli newspapers.

As there are so many attacks they will be presented in a post for every year.

1993

Sep 24 93 Yigal Vaknin was stabbed to death in an orchard near the trailer home where he lived near the village of Basra. A squad of the HAMAS' Iz a-Din al Kassam claimed responsibility for the attack.

Oct 9 93 Dror Forer and Aran Bachar were murdered by terrorists in Wadi Kelt in the Judean Desert. The Popular Front and the Islamic Jihad 'Al-Aqsa Squads' each publicly claimed responsibility.

Oct 24 93 Two IDF soldiers, Staff Sgt. (res.) Ehud Rot, age 35, and Sgt. Ilan Levi, age 23, were killed by a HAMAS Iz a-Din al Kassam squad. The two entered a Subaru with Israeli license plates outside a Jewish settlement in the Gaza Strip, whose passengers were apparently terrorists disguised as Israelis. Following a brief struggle, the soldiers were shot at close range and killed. HAMAS publicly claimed responsibility for the attack.

Oct 29 93 Chaim Mizrahi, resident of Beit-El, was kidnapped by three terrorists from a poultry farm near Ramallah. He was murdered and his body burned. Three Fatah members were convicted of the murder on July 27, 1994.

Nov 7 93 Efraim Ayubi of Kfar Darom, Rabbi Chaim Druckman's personal driver, was shot to death by terrorists near Hebron. HAMAS publicly claimed responsibility for the murder.

Nov 9 93 Salman 'Id el-Hawashla, age 38, an Israeli Bedouin of the Abu Rekaik tribe who was driving a car with Israeli plates, was killed by three armed men driving a truck hijacked from the Gaza municipality, in a deliberate head-on collision.

Nov 17 93 Sgt. 1st Cl. Chaim Darina, age 37, was stabbed by a Gazan terrorist while seated at the cafeteria at the Nahal Oz road block at the entrance to the Gaza Strip. The perpetrator was apprehended. The Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility for the murder.

Dec 1 93 Shalva Ozana, age 23, and Yitzhak Weinstock, age 19, were shot to death by terrorists from a moving vehicle, while parked on the side of the road to Ramallah because of engine trouble. Weinstock died of his wounds the following morning. Iz a-Din al Kassam claimed responbility for the attack, stating that it was carried out in retaliation for the killing by Israeli forces of Imad Akel, a wanted HAMAS leader in Gaza.

Dec 5 93 David Mashrati, a reserve soldier, was shot and killed by a terrorist attempting to board a bus on route 641 at the Holon junction. The Islamic Jihad Shekaki group claimed responsibility for the attack.

Dec 6 93 Mordechai Lapid and his son Shalom Lapid, age 19, were shot to death by terrorists near Hebron. HAMAS publicly claimed responsibility for the attack.

Dec 22 93 Eliahu Levin and Meir Mendelovitch were killed by shots fired at their car from a passing vehicle in the Ramallah area. HAMAS claimed responsibility.

Dec 31 93 Chaim Weizman and David Bizi were found murdered in a Ramle apartment. ID cards of two Gaza residents were found in the apartment, together with a leaflet of the Popular Front 'Red Eagle' group, claiming responsibility for the murder.

Dec 24 93 Lieut.Col. Meir Mintz, commander of the IDF special forces in the Gaza area, was shot and killed by terrorists in an ambush on his jeep at the T-junction in Gaza. The HAMAS Iz a-Din al Kassam squads publicly claimed responsibility for the attack.

[bryan361]

1994

Jan 12 94 Moshe Becker of Rishon Le-Zion was stabbed to death by three Palestinian employees while working in his orchard. The Popular Front claimed responsibility for the murder.

Jan 14 94 Grigory Ivanov was stabbed to death by a terrorist in the industrial zone at the Erez junction, near the Gaza Strip. HAMAS claimed responsibility for the attack.

Feb 9 94 Ilan Sudri, a taxi driver, was kidnapped and murdered while returning home from work. The Islamic Jihad Shekaki group sent a message to the news agencies claiming responsibility for the murder.

Feb 13 94 Noam Cohen, age 28, member of the General Security Service, was shot and killed in an ambush on his car. Two of his colleagues who were also in the vehicle suffered moderate injuries. HAMAS claimed responsibility for the attack.

Feb 17 94 Yuval Golan, stabbed on December 29, 1993 by a terrorist near Adarim in the Hebron area, died of his wounds.

Feb 19 94 Zipora Sasson, resident of Ariel and five months pregnant, was killed on the trans-Samaria highway in an ambush by shots fired at her car. The terrorists were members of HAMAS.

Mar 23 94 Victor Lashchiver, employed as a guard at the Income Tax offices in East Jerusalem, was shot and killed near Damascus Gate on his way to work. The Popular Front claimed responsibility for the attack.

Mar 29 94 Yitzhak Rothenberg, age 70 of Petah Tikva, was attacked on a construction site by two residents of Khan Yunis by axe blows to the head. He died several days later of his wounds. The murderers, apprehended the next day, stated that they carried out the attack in order to clear themselves of suspected collaboration with the Israeli authorities.

Mar 31 94 Yosef Zandani, age 28 of Bnei Ayish, near Gedera, was found murdered in his apartment. Near the body was a leaflet of the DFLP "Red Star", explaining that the murder was carried out in revenge for the shooting of one of its members by an Israeli citizen.

Apr 6 94 Asher Attia, 48, of Afula, bus driver; Vered Mordechai, 13, of Afula; Maya Elharar, 17, of Afula; Ilana Schreiber, 45, a teacher from Kibbutz Nir David; Meirav Ben-Moshe, 16, of Afula; Ayala Vahaba, 40, a teacher from Afula; and Fadiya Shalabi, 25, of Iksal were killed in a car-bomb attack on a bus in the center of Afula. HAMAS claimed responsibility for the attack. Ahuva Cohen Onalla, 37, wounded in the attack, died of her wounds on April 25.

Apr 7 94 Yishai Gadassi, age 32 of Kvutzat Yavne, was shot and killed at a hitchhiking post at the Ashdod junction by a member of HAMAS. The terrorist was killed by bystanders at the scene.

Apr 13 94 Rahamim Mazgauker, 34, of Hadera; David Moyal, 26 of Ramat Gan, an Egged mechanic; Daga Perda, 44, who immigrated from Ethiopia in 1991; Bilha Butin, 49, of Hadera; and Sgt. Ari Perlmutter, 19, of Ir Ovot in the Arava were killed in a suicide bombing attack on a bus in the central bus station of Hadera. HAMAS claimed responsibility for the attack.

May 17 94 Rafael Yairi (Klumfenbert), 36, of Kiryat Arba, and Margalit Ruth Shohat, 48, of Ma'ale Levona, were killed when their car was fired upon by by terrorists in a passing car near Beit Haggai, south of Hebron.

May 20 94 Staff Sgt. Moshe Bukra, 30, and Cpl. Erez Ben-Baruch, 24, were shot dead by HAMAS terrorists at a roadblock one kilometer south of the Erez checkpoint in the Gaza Strip.

Jul 7 94 Sarit Prigal, 17, was shot to death when terrorists opened fire from a passing car near the entrance to Kiryat Arba.

Jul 7 94 The body of Arye (Arik) Frankenthal, 20, from Moshav Gimzo near Lod, who had left his base in the south the previous day, was found stabbed and shot near the Arab village of Kafr Akab, near Ramallah. He had been abducted and murdered by Hamas Arab terrorists.

Jul 19 94 Lt. Guy Ovadia, 23, of Kibbutz Yotvata, was fatally wounded in an ambush near Rafiah. HAMAS took responsibility for the attack, saying it was "a response to the massacre at the Erez checkpoint".

Jul 25 94 Border policeman Sgt.-Maj. Jacques Attias, 24, died of his wounds after being shot by Palestinian policemen during the riots at Erez checkpoint on July 17.

Aug 14 94 Ron Soval, 18, of Lehavim, north of Beersheba, was shot to death in an ambush near Kissufim junction in the Gaza Strip. HAMAS claimed responsibility for the attack.

Aug 26 94 Shlomo Kapach, 22, of Holon and Gil Revah, 21, of Bat Yam, elevator technicians, were murdered at a Ramle building site. Israel has requested the extradition of the suspected killers from the Palestinian Authority.

Sep 4 94 Sgt. Victor Shichman, 24, was killed at the Morag junction in the southern Gaza Strip while on patrol, from shots fired from a vehicle bearing Palestinian license plates.

Sep 94 Natasha Ivanov, 32, of Ashdod was strangled to death. In March 2001, a Palestinian arrested for being in Israel illegally, admitted to carrying out the murder in order to gain acceptance into a terrorist organization.

Oct 9 94 Ma'ayan Levy, 19, an off-duty soldier from Moshav Beit Zayit and Samir Mugrabi, 35, from Kafr Akab, in north Jerusalem, were killed in a terrorist attack in the Nahalat Shiva section of downtown Jerusalem. HAMAS claimed responsibility for the attack.

Oct 14 94 Cpl. Nahshon Wachsman, 20, who had been abducted by HAMAS, was murdered by his captors. Capt. Nir Poraz, 23, was killed in the course of the unsuccessful IDF rescue operation to obtain his release.

Oct 19 94 In a suicide bombing attack on the No. 5 bus on Dizengoff Street in Tel-Aviv, 21 Israelis and one Dutch national were killed: Haviv Tishbi, 54, of Tel Aviv; Moshe Gardinger, 83, of Tel Aviv; Pnina Rapaport, 74, of Tel Aviv; Galit Rosen, 23, of Holon; Zippora Ariel, 64, of Tel Aviv; David Lida, 74, of Tel Aviv; Puah Yedgar, 56, of Givatayim; Dalia Ashkenazi, 62, of Tel; Aviv Esther Sharon, 21, of Lod; Ofra Ben-Naim, 33, of Lod; Tamar Karlibach-Sapir, 24, of Moshav Zafaria; Shira Meroz-Kot, 20, of Kibbutz Beit Ha****a; Miriam Adaf, 54, of Sderot; Anat Rosen, 21, of Ra'anana; Salah Ovadia, 52, of Holon; Eliahu Wasserman, 66, of Bat Yam; Alexandra Sapirstein, 55, of Holon; Dr. Pierre Atlas, 56, of Kiryat Ono; Ella Volkov, 21, of Safed; Ayelet Langer-Alkobi, 26, of Kibbutz Yiron; Kochava Biton, 59, of Tel Aviv; Reinier Verbiest, 25, of the Netherlands. Nov 11 94 Capt. Yehazkel Sapir, 36, of Kfar Sava; Lt. Yotam Rahat, 31, of Tel-Aviv; and Capt. Elad Dror, 24, of Kibbutz Nachson were killed at the Netzarim junction in the Gaza Strip when a Palestinian riding a bicycle detonated explosives strapped to his body. Islamic Jihad said it carried out the attack to avenge the car bomb killing of Islamic Jihad leader Hani Abed on Nov 2.

Nov 19 94 Sgt.-Maj. Gil Dadon, 26, of Bat Yam, was killed at the army post at Netzarim junction by shots fired from a passing car. HAMAS claimed responsibility for the attack.

[getting2big]

Originally Posted by bryan361

In the threads about Palenstinian peace there were some questions as to the claim that the terrorists were active prior to 2000. With so much on the evening news these days it is impossible to remember all the reports over the past decade and with daily reports of terrorist attacks it becomes easy to tune them out or for media outside Israel to just not publish the attacks. I have compiled reports of these attacks culled from numerous Israeli newspapers.

As there are so many attacks they will be presented in a post for every year.

1993

Sep 24 93 Yigal Vaknin was stabbed to death in an orchard near the trailer home where he lived near the village of Basra. A squad of the HAMAS' Iz a-Din al Kassam claimed responsibility for the attack.

Oct 9 93 Dror Forer and Aran Bachar were murdered by terrorists in Wadi Kelt in the Judean Desert. The Popular Front and the Islamic Jihad 'Al-Aqsa Squads' each publicly claimed responsibility.

Oct 24 93 Two IDF soldiers, Staff Sgt. (res.) Ehud Rot, age 35, and Sgt. Ilan Levi, age 23, were killed by a HAMAS Iz a-Din al Kassam squad. The two entered a Subaru with Israeli license plates outside a Jewish settlement in the Gaza Strip, whose passengers were apparently terrorists disguised as Israelis. Following a brief struggle, the soldiers were shot at close range and killed. HAMAS publicly claimed responsibility for the attack.

Oct 29 93 Chaim Mizrahi, resident of Beit-El, was kidnapped by three terrorists from a poultry farm near Ramallah. He was murdered and his body burned. Three Fatah members were convicted of the murder on July 27, 1994.

Nov 7 93 Efraim Ayubi of Kfar Darom, Rabbi Chaim Druckman's personal driver, was shot to death by terrorists near Hebron. HAMAS publicly claimed responsibility for the murder.

Nov 9 93 Salman 'Id el-Hawashla, age 38, an Israeli Bedouin of the Abu Rekaik tribe who was driving a car with Israeli plates, was killed by three armed men driving a truck hijacked from the Gaza municipality, in a deliberate head-on collision.

Nov 17 93 Sgt. 1st Cl. Chaim Darina, age 37, was stabbed by a Gazan terrorist while seated at the cafeteria at the Nahal Oz road block at the entrance to the Gaza Strip. The perpetrator was apprehended. The Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility for the murder.

Dec 1 93 Shalva Ozana, age 23, and Yitzhak Weinstock, age 19, were shot to death by terrorists from a moving vehicle, while parked on the side of the road to Ramallah because of engine trouble. Weinstock died of his wounds the following morning. Iz a-Din al Kassam claimed responbility for the attack, stating that it was carried out in retaliation for the killing by Israeli forces of Imad Akel, a wanted HAMAS leader in Gaza.

Dec 5 93 David Mashrati, a reserve soldier, was shot and killed by a terrorist attempting to board a bus on route 641 at the Holon junction. The Islamic Jihad Shekaki group claimed responsibility for the attack.

Dec 6 93 Mordechai Lapid and his son Shalom Lapid, age 19, were shot to death by terrorists near Hebron. HAMAS publicly claimed responsibility for the attack.

Dec 22 93 Eliahu Levin and Meir Mendelovitch were killed by shots fired at their car from a passing vehicle in the Ramallah area. HAMAS claimed responsibility.

Dec 31 93 Chaim Weizman and David Bizi were found murdered in a Ramle apartment. ID cards of two Gaza residents were found in the apartment, together with a leaflet of the Popular Front 'Red Eagle' group, claiming responsibility for the murder.

Dec 24 93 Lieut.Col. Meir Mintz, commander of the IDF special forces in the Gaza area, was shot and killed by terrorists in an ambush on his jeep at the T-junction in Gaza. The HAMAS Iz a-Din al Kassam squads publicly claimed responsibility for the attack.

i guess that after all this the israeli gov. would uderstand that their policy of mass killing dosent work

[bryan361]

1995
Jan 6 95 Ofra Felix, 20, of Beit El, a university student, was killed when terrorists opened fire on her car north of Beit El.

Jan 22 95 Two consecutive bombs exploded at the Beit Lid junction near Netanya, killing 18 soldiers and one civilian. The Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility for the attack. The soldiers killed were: Lt. David Ben-Zino, 20, of Ashdod; Lt. Adi Rosen, 20, of Moshav Bitzaron; Lt. Yuval Tuvya, 22, of Jerusalem; Sgt.-Maj. Anan Kadur, 24, of Daliat al-Carmel; Staff-Sgt. Damian Rosovski, 20, of Kadima; Staff-Sgt. Yehiel Sharvit, 21, of Haifa; Staff-Sgt. Yaron Blum, 20, of Jerusalem; Sgt. Maya Kopstein, 19, of Jerusalem; Sgt. Daniel Tzikuashvili, 19, of Jerusalem; Sgt. Avi Salto, 19, of Rishon Lezion; Sgt. Rafael Mizrahi, 19, of Ramat Gan; Sgt. Eran Gueta, 20, of Ashkelon; Cpl. Soli Mizrahi, 18, of Ramat Ramat Gan; Cpl. David Hasson, 18, of Ashkelon; Cpl. Amir Hirschenson, 18, of Jerusalem; Cpl. Gilad Gaon, 18, of Herzliya; Cpl. Ilie Dagan, 18, of Kochav Yair; Cpl. Eitan Peretz, 18, of Nahariya; and Shabtai Mahpud, 34, of Moshav Tnuvot. Lt. Eyal Levy, 20, of Ashdod, and Cpl. Yaniv Weiser, 18, of Givatayim, who were seriously wounded in the attacks, later died of their wounds.

Feb 6 95 Yevgeny Gromov, 32, of Ashkelon, a security guard, was killed when terrorists opened fire from a passing car on the Gaza bypass road between Jabalya and Gaza City, as he was escorting a gasoline truck to a Gaza Strip filling station.

Feb 13 95 Rafael Cohen, 35, of Jerusalem, a taxi driver, was fatally stabbed on the Jerusalem-Ma'aleh Adumim road. Mar 19 95 Nahum Hoss, 32, of Hebron and Yehuda Fartush, 41, of Kiryat Arba, were killed when terrorists fired on an Egged bus near the entrance to Hebron.

Mar 29 95 Police Insp. Nitzan Cohen, 22, of Jerusalem and Sgt.-Maj. Jamal Suwitat from Makr village in Western Galilee were killed when a Palestinian driver rammed his truck into their jeep in a convoy east of the Netzarim junction in Gaza.

Apr 9 95 Staff-Sgt. Yuval Regev, 20, of Holon; Staff-Sgt. Meir Scheinwald, 20, of Safed; Sgt. Itai Diener, 19, of Rishon Lezion; Sgt. Zvi Narbat, 19, of Rishon Lezion; Sgt. Netta Sufrin, 20, of Rishon Lezion; Cpl. Tal Nir, 19, of Kibbutz Miflasim; Sgt. Avraham Arditi, 19, of Jerusalem; and Alisa Flatow, 20, of the United States were killed when a bus was hit by an explosives-laden van near Kfar Darom in the Gaza Strip. The Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility for the attack.

Jul 24 95 Moshe Shkedi, 75, of Ramat Gan; Rahel Tamari, 65, of Tel Aviv; Zviya Cohen, 62, of Tel Aviv; Zahava Oren, 60, of Tel Aviv; Nehama Lubowitz, 61, of Tel Aviv; and Mordechai Tovia, 37, of Tel Aviv were killed in a suicide bomb attack on a bus in Ramat Gan.

Aug 21 95 Rivka Cohen, 26, of Jerusalem; Hannah Naeh, 56, of Jerusalem; Joan Davenney, 46, of Connecticut; and Police Chief Superintendent Noam Eisenman, 35, of Jerusalem were killed in a suicide bombing of a Jerusalem bus.

[bryan361]

Originally Posted by getting2big

i guess that after all this the israeli gov. would uderstand that their policy of mass killing dosent work

That isn't the intent of these postings. It was pointed out by some that there were no terrorist attacks on citizens prior to 2000 because they hadn't heard any reports of terrorism on citizens before 2000.

[bryan361]

1996
Jan 16 96 Sgt. Yaniv Shimel and Major Oz Tibon, both of Jerusalem, were killed when terrorists fired on their car on the Hebron-Jerusalem road.

Jan 30 96 Staff Sgt. Ehud Tal, 21, of Kibbutz Maoz Haim, was stabbed to death at the liaison office in an army camp south of Jenin.

Feb 25 96 In a suicide bombing of bus No. 18 near the Central Bus Station in Jerusalem, 26 were killed (17 civilians and 9 soldiers).The civilians: Daniel Biton, 42; Yitzhak Elbaz, 57, Boris Sharpolinsky, 64; Semion Trakashvili, 60; Yitzhak Yakhnis, 54; Peretz Gantz, 61; Anatoly and Jana Kushnirov, 36 and 37; Masuda Amar, 59; Swietlana Gelezniak, 32; Celine Zaguri, 19 - all of Jerusalem; Navon Shabo, 22, of Bnei Brak; Michael Yerigin, 16, of Kibbutz Maabarot; Matthew Eisenfeld, 25 and Sara Duker, 23, of the United States, Wael Kawasmeh, 23, of East Jerusalem, and Ira Yitzhak Weinstein, 53, of Maaleh Adumim, later died of their wounds. The soldiers: Sgt. Yonatan Barnea, 20; St-Sgt. Gavriel Krauss, 24; St.-Sgt. Gadi Shiloni, 22; Cpl. Moshe Reuven, 19; St.-Sgt. Maj. (res.) Arye Barashi, 39; Cpl. Iliya Nimotin, 19; Cpl. Merav Nahum, 19; Sgt. Sharon Hanuka, 19; Arik Gaby, 16 (student in pre-army boarding school) - all of Jerusalem. HAMAS claimed responsibility for the attack.

Feb 25 96 Sgt. Hofit Ayyash, 20, of Ashdod was killed in an explosion set off by a suicide bomber at a hitchhiking post oustide Ashkelon. HAMAS claimed responsibility for the attack.

Mar 3 96 In a suicide bombing of bus No. 18 on Jaffa Road in Jerusalem, 19 were killed (16 civilians and 3 soldiers). The civilians: Maya Birkan, 59; Naima Zargary, 66; Gavriel Shamashvili, 43; Shemtov Sheikh, 63; Anna Shingeloff, 36; Raya Daushvili, 55; George Yonan, 38 - all of Jerusalem; Sarina Angel, 45, of Beit Jalla; Gidi Taspanish, 23, a tourist from Ethiopia; Valerian Krasyon, 44, a tourist from Romania; Dominic Lunca, 29; Daniel Patenka, 33; Marian Grefan, 40; Mirze Gifa, 39; Dimitru Kokarascu, 43 - all Romanian workers. Imar Ambrose, 51, of Romania, died on March 9.The soldiers: Sgt. Yoni Levy, 21, of Jerusalem; Sgt. Haim Amedi, 19, of Jerusalem; Senior NCO Uzi Cohen, 54, border policeman of Jerusalem.

Mar 4 96 Outside Dizengoff Center in Tel-Aviv, a suicide bomber detonated a 20-kilogram nail bomb, killing 13 (12 civilians and 1 soldier): Bat-Hen Shahak, 15, of Tel Mond; Hadas Dror, 15, of Tel Mond; Kobi Zaharon, 13, of Tel Aviv; Inbar Atiya, 21, of Ramat-Efal; Dan Tversky, 58, of Tel Aviv; Dana Gutman, 14, of Moshav Mishmeret; Yovav Levy, 13, of Tel Aviv; Leah Mizrahi, 60, of Tel Aviv; Tali Gordon, 24, of Givatayim; Rahel Sela, 82, of Tel Aviv; Sylvia Bernstein, 73, of Hod Hasharon; Gail Belkin, 48, of Herzliya; St.-Sgt. Assaf Wachs, 21, of Holon.

May 14 96 David Baum, 17, a yeshiva high school student in Beit El, was killed when terrorists fired at students at a hitchhiking post at Beil El, near Ramallah.

Jun 9 96 Yaron (26) and Efrat (25) Unger, of Kiryat Arba, were killed when terrorists fired on their car near Beit Shemesh.

Jun 26 96 Staff Sgt. (Res.) Asher Berdugo, 22, of Kiryat Bialik; Sgt. Ashraf Shibli, 20, of Shibli; and Cpl. (Res.) Ya'acov Turgeman of Rishon Lezion were killed in an ambush along the Jordan River north of Jericho by terrorists who infiltrated from Jordan.

Jul 26 96 Uri Munk, 53, and his daughter-in-law, Rachel Munk, 24, of Moshav Mevo Betar, were killed in a drive-by shooting attack near Beit Shemesh. 30-year-old Ze'ev Munk, Rachel's husband, was critically wounded and died in the hospital the following week.

Dec 11 96 Etta Tzur, 48, and her son Ephraim, 12, were killed when their car was shot at by terrorists near Surda, west of Beit El.

[bryan361]

1997
Mar 21 97 Michal Avrahami, 32, Yael Gilad, 32, and Anat Winter-Rosen, 32, were killed when a suicide bomber detonated a bomb on the terrace of a Tel Aviv cafe. 48 people were wounded.

Apr 10 97 The body of IDF Staff-Sgt. Sharon Edri, missing for seven months, was found buried near the West Bank village of Kfar Tzurif. Edri had been kidnapped and murdered by a Hamas terrorist cell in September 1996 while hitchiking to his home in Moshav Zanoah.

Apr 25 97 Hagit Zavitzky, 23, of Kfar Adumim and Liat Kastiel, 23, of Holon were found stabbed to death in Wadi Kelt.

Jul 30 97 16 people were killed and 178 wounded in two consecutive suicide bombings in the Mahane Yehuda market in Jerusalem: Lev Desyatnik, 60, of Jerusalem; Regina Giber, 76, of Jerusalem; Valentina Kovalenko, 67, of Jerusalem; Shmuel Malka, 44, of Mevaseret Zion; David Nasco, 44, of Mevaseret Zion; Muhi A-din Othman, 33, of Abu Ghosh; Simha Fremd, 92, of Jerusalem; Grisha Paskhovitz, 15, of Jerusalem; Leah Stern, 50, of Jerusalem; Rachel Tejgatrio, 80, of Jerusalem; Liliya Zelezniak, 47, of Jerusalem; Shalom (Golan) Zevulun, 52, of Jerusalem; Mark Rabinowitz, 80, of Jerusalem, Eli Adourian, 49, of Kfar Adumim, died of his wounds on August 11. Ilia Gazrach, 73, of Pisgat Ze'ev, died on August 29. Baruch Ostrovsky, 84, of Jerusalem died on October 3.

Sep 4 97 Five people were killed and 181 wounded in three suicide bombings on the Ben-Yehuda pedestrian mall in Jerusalem. The victims: Yael Botwin, 14; Sivan Zarka, 14; Smadar Elhanan, 14; Rami Kozashvili, 20; and Eliahu Markowitz, 40 - all of Jerusalem.

Nov 19 97 Gabriel Hirschberg, 26, was killed by automatic gunfire in the Old City of Jerusalem.

1998
Jan 6 98 Yael Meivar, 25, died of gunshot wounds sustained in a terrorist attack on Dec 31, 1997 near the settlement of Alei Zahav in Samaria.

Feb 11 98 David Ktorza, 40, of Jerusalem, was stabbed to death near his home.

May 6 98 Haim Kerman, 28, was stabbed to death in the Old City of Jerusalem.

Aug 5 98 Harel Bin-Nun, 18, and Shlomo Liebman, 24, were shot and killed in an ambush by terrorists while on patrol at the Yizhar settlement in Samaria.

Aug 20 98 Rabbi Shlomo Ra'anan, 63, was stabbed to death in the bedroom of his caravan in Hebron.

Oct 9 98 IDF soldier Michal Adato, 19, was stabbed to death at Moshav Tomer in the Jordan Valley.

Oct 14 98 Itamar Doron, 24, was shot to death near Moshav Ora, outside Jerusalem.

Oct 26 98 Danny Vargas, 29, of Kiryat Arba was shot to death in Hebron.

Oct 29 98 Sergeant Alexey Neykov, 19, was killed when a terrorist drove an explosives-laden car into an Israeli army jeep escorting a bus with 40 elementary school students from the settlement of Kfar Darom in the Gaza Strip.

1999
Jan 13 99 Sergeant Yehoshua Gavriel, 25, of Ashdod, was killed when terrorists opened fire at the Othniel junction near Hebron.

Aug 7 99 The body of an Israeli, shot in the head, was found in a burned vehicle.

Aug 30 99 Yehiel Finfeter, 25, of Kiryat Motzkin, and Sharon Steinmetz, 21, of Haifa, were murdered whlie hiking in the Megiddo region.

[A & B]

Originally Posted by bryan361

That isn't the intent of these postings. It was pointed out by some that there were no terrorist attacks on citizens prior to 2000 because they hadn't heard any reports of terrorism on citizens before 2000.

Who said that?

And in all the cases where civilians were killed, that is tragic and wrong.

But don't include attacks against soldiers and military targets as 'terrorist' attacks. Those are legitimate resistance.


I'm getting pretty sick and tired of being accused by all the people on this board who accuse me of supporting and justifying terrorism. I have absolutely never said anything to that effect.

[bulletproofsoul]

Originally Posted by A & B

...But don't include attacks against soldiers and military targets as 'terrorist' attacks. Those are legitimate resistance...

Are they? How can that be so when the duly elected Palestinian Authority in the form of President Abbas has expressly forbidden all such attacks? Hamas and Islamic Jihad are not legitimate organizations authorized by the Palestinian people to wage warfare. They are terrorists...period.

There is a legitimate government in place in the Palestinian Territories with the power to negotiate through peaceful means with the Israelis, which these groups continue to undermine by flaunting Abbas' authority and continuing lawlessness. They kidnap and terrorize their own people also and there is little Abbas can do to stop them at this point.

How you can excuse such "extra-governmental" resistance as legitimate is beyond me. If we had a bunch of Americans who engaged in similar activities against Canada or Mexico, we would never consider it legitimate since it would not reflect our government's policy or our laws.

[A & B]

Originally Posted by bulletproofsoul

Are they? How can that be so when the duly elected Palestinian Authority in the form of President Abbas has expressly forbidden all such attacks? Hamas and Islamic Jihad are not legitimate organizations authorized by the Palestinian people to wage warfare. They are terrorists...period.

There is a legitimate government in place in the Palestinian Territories with the power to negotiate through peaceful means with the Israelis, which these groups continue to undermine by flaunting Abbas' authority and continuing lawlessness. They kidnap and terrorize their own people also and there is little Abbas can do to stop them at this point.

How you can excuse such "extra-governmental" resistance as legitimate is beyond me. If we had a bunch of Americans who engaged in similar activities against Canada or Mexico, we would never consider it legitimate since it would not reflect our government's policy or our laws.

Your first two paragraphs have a lot of merit, and I agree with a lot of what you said.

But here is how I see it. It is a fact, that the Palestinian people live under a foreign occupation, and have so for the last 38 years. It is the inherent right of anybody to take up arms against those who would oppress them. And whether or not you feel the occupation is justified, we must agree that it is a right to resist armed occupation, with force is necessary. I believe the US fought a war against the British over self-determination.

Any resistance against the armed forces of the occupying power, cannot be seen as terrorism. So long as the Palestinian people live under occupation, they have the right to combat it. If Israel pulled out of the West Bank tomorow, and these groups continued to attack Israeli military targets in Israel proper, that would be an unwarranted act of aggression.

But you can't have your cake and eat it too. You can't say it's right to occupy a people, and then claim they are 'wrong' to fight back.



And your analogy of the US and Canada/Mexico isn't accurate. Canada and Mexico don't have the United States under a military occupation.

[bryan361]

Originally Posted by A & B

Who said that?

And in all the cases where civilians were killed, that is tragic and wrong.

But don't include attacks against soldiers and military targets as 'terrorist' attacks. Those are legitimate resistance.


I'm getting pretty sick and tired of being accused by all the people on this board who accuse me of supporting and justifying terrorism. I have absolutely never said anything to that effect.

Are you saying that members of the IDF eating at a restaurant being gunned down is not a terrorist attack. You are aware when a group of people attack a US Embasy (filled with millitary personel), or docked Navy Ships (IE: Yemen) it has been called Terrorist Attacks. Are you also aware that the attacks in Iraq on US Soldiers are also called Terrorist Attacks. I fail to see the difference between those attacks and those few instances of IDF members I have included. What if it was your son or daughter in the IDF stopping at a restaurant for a bite to eat or walking down the street making sure your neighborhood is safe? Would you just say, 'Oh well, it was legimate resistance, the killing of my kid is completly justified'?

I never accused you of anything, I never said anything about you. I just didn't want to name names. See Post #48 here:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...=616695&page=2

Of course you didn't say that, I never said you did. I know we have a difference of an opinion on many issues, but I would never accuse you of supporting and justifying terrorism.

I specifically started another thread so that your thread wouldn't be hijacked, You even indicated that was something for another topic. Geez, I guess that's what one gets for being a nice guy. This is what you said:

Originally Posted by A & B

If you want to talk about the intifada's, I'll be more than willing to. That's a subject we could talk about for ever. Start a thread on it and I'll be there.

Should I have posted all this information in your thread?

[A & B]

Originally Posted by bryan361

Are you saying that members of the IDF eating at a restaurant being gunned down is not a terrorist attack. You are aware when a group of people attack a US Embasy (filled with millitary personel), or docked Navy Ships (IE: Yemen) it has been called Terrorist Attacks. Are you also aware that the attacks in Iraq on US Soldiers are also called Terrorist Attacks. I fail to see the difference between those attacks and those few instances of IDF members I have included. What if it was your son or daughter in the IDF stopping at a restaurant for a bite to eat or walking down the street making sure your neighborhood is safe? Would you just say, 'Oh well, it was legimate resistance, the killing of my kid is completly justified'?

I never accused you of anything, I never said anything about you. I just didn't want to name names. See Post #48 here:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...=616695&page=2

Of course you didn't say that, I never said you did. I know we have a difference of an opinion on many issues, but I would never accuse you of supporting and justifying terrorism.

I specifically started another thread so that your thread wouldn't be hijacked, You even indicated that was something for another topic. Geez, I guess that's what one gets for being a nice guy. This is what you said:



Should I have posted all this information in your thread?

I made that post in reference to the posters in my thread, I didn't mean to say you were accusing me of those. I probably should have posted it in my thread though to avoid the confusion.


With regards to terrorist attacks though. In the examples you used, the circumstances are different. Iraq and the US are not the West Bank. The analogies don't fit.

Here is the way I justify attacks against IDF:
-The Palestinians are under military occupation.
-They have the fundamental right to fight their oppressors.

No people in the history of the world would live willingly under a military occupation, every one of them has the right to fight for self-determination and freedom. Because regardless of how you feel they're being treated, they feel that they've been oppressed.

And your final example is just asinine. I'm not saying it's a good thing when an IDF soldier is killed. It's a tragedy of the circumstances. I feel for all the IDF soldiers and their families when this happens, and of course I'd be crushed and hate the Palestinians if it were someone I knew.

Never the less, it is a fundamental right to rise up in arms against those who would oppress you.

It's a tragedy when anybody dies, yes even when it's an Islamic Jihad militant. It's a shame that he was driven to those lengths and felt he had no other choice, and it's always a shame when somebody dies. He was someone's son and father too.

Violence and death are never a good thing my friend. You know I'm not saying otherwise, stop patronizing.

[twangtownguy]

Why did you only go back to 1993?

I am old enough to remember the 1972 Olympics when Palestinian terrorists attacked the Israelis in Munich, Germany. 11 Israelis murdered.

[Lieb]

Originally Posted by A & B

I made that post in reference to the posters in my thread, I didn't mean to say you were accusing me of those. I probably should have posted it in my thread though to avoid the confusion.


With regards to terrorist attacks though. In the examples you used, the circumstances are different. Iraq and the US are not the West Bank. The analogies don't fit.

Here is the way I justify attacks against IDF:
-The Palestinians are under military occupation.
-They have the fundamental right to fight their oppressors.

No people in the history of the world would live willingly under a military occupation, every one of them has the right to fight for self-determination and freedom. Because regardless of how you feel they're being treated, they feel that they've been oppressed.

And your final example is just asinine. I'm not saying it's a good thing when an IDF soldier is killed. It's a tragedy of the circumstances. I feel for all the IDF soldiers and their families when this happens, and of course I'd be crushed and hate the Palestinians if it were someone I knew.

Never the less, it is a fundamental right to rise up in arms against those who would oppress you.

It's a tragedy when anybody dies, yes even when it's an Islamic Jihad militant. It's a shame that he was driven to those lengths and felt he had no other choice, and it's always a shame when somebody dies. He was someone's son and father too.

Violence and death are never a good thing my friend. You know I'm not saying otherwise, stop patronizing.

why don't they attack the Israel military then, instead of cowardly blowing up/attacking civilian people who have absolutley nothing to do with their "oppression?" Really..why doesn't HAMAS attack soldiers?

[bryan361]

Originally Posted by twangtownguy

Why did you only go back to 1993?

I am old enough to remember the 1972 Olympics when Palestinian terrorists attacked the Israelis in Munich, Germany. 11 Israelis murdered.

Give me time to do the research The initial request was for information from 1993 to 2000. Yes, I remember some of the attacks from the 70's, though in 1972 I was only 3 I do remember some of the events after 1977. 1972 is about the major start of everything. We can't do much before that because it wasn't until after 1964 and the 1967 6 day war that the Arabs started fabricating a "Palestinian Peoplehood".

[bryan361]

Originally Posted by Lieb

why don't they attack the Israel military then, instead of cowardly blowing up/attacking civilian people who have absolutley nothing to do with their "oppression?" Really..why doesn't HAMAS attack soldiers?

Good question! Perhaps it is easier to kill civilians than heavily armed military personel.

[AccountantGuy]

Originally Posted by getting2big

i guess that after all this the israeli gov. would uderstand that their policy of mass killing dosent work

Its a policy of exponential punishment. For every one man (or baby for in many of these cases) the Palestinians kill, Israelis kill 10.

[P01Shooter]

Originally Posted by Lieb

why don't they attack the Israel military then, instead of cowardly blowing up/attacking civilian people who have absolutley nothing to do with their "oppression?" Really..why doesn't HAMAS attack soldiers?

If you were a muslim arab and were given a choice between fighting someone who has kicked your butt every time or blowing up a pizzaria at lunch what would you choose. Cowardace and fear lead to their tactics. After all, that is why Arafat was put in at the head of the PLO.

Normally I avoid the politics/religion section since tensions can get high but I'm finding most are pretty sane in there posts. Perhaps I'll start a thread on the exodus of Jews from their homes in Arab land. This is perhaps the one topic that solidified in my mind an unwavering support of Isreal and the Jewish people when it comes to the Isreali/Palestinian issue.

[NuggzTheNinja]

Originally Posted by P01Shooter

If you were a muslim arab and were given a choice between fighting someone who has kicked your butt every time or blowing up a pizzaria at lunch what would you choose. Cowardace and fear lead to their tactics. After all, that is why Arafat was put in at the head of the PLO.

Normally I avoid the politics/religion section since tensions can get high but I'm finding most are pretty sane in there posts. Perhaps I'll start a thread on the exodus of Jews from their homes in Arab land. This is perhaps the one topic that solidified in my mind an unwavering support of Isreal and the Jewish people when it comes to the Isreali/Palestinian issue.

Interesting you bring that up actually.

Almost twice as many Jews were kicked out of their homelands in '48, as Arabs.

[Ruhanv]

Both groups have committed acts of terrorism over the years. What's more helpful is looking at the internal forces on both sides which prevent healthy, secure democracy from developing.

Religious, nationalistic, right wing elements from within both the Isreali Govt and PLO have prevented this from happening. From the assassination of Rabin to Arrafat's (spl?) refusal to compromise in 1999.

There have been moderate, intellectuals on both sides that have met regularly over the years to try to work together to marginalise these right wing elements, but as long as both Jewish and Islamic religious and nationalistic fundamentalism thrives, there will be no peace in this region.

[getting2big]

oh please nuggs you can neg. rep. all you want but thats just pathetic

and tell me what are these mass killing comitted by palestinians

i guess your good at talking but dnt have a way of proving what you say

yes there are palestinians killing innocent people but compared to the israeli gov. thats nothing

so please if you have anything to say come out and say to all the people in here

and one more thing please bring proof to what your going to say

MASS KILLING COMMITED BY PALESTINIANS LMAO

[NuggzTheNinja]

Originally Posted by getting2big

oh please nuggs you can neg. rep. all you want but thats just pathetic

and tell me what are these mass killing comitted by palestinians

i guess your good at talking but dnt have a way of proving what you say

yes there are palestinians killing innocent people but compared to the israeli gov. thats nothing

so please if you have anything to say come out and say to all the people in here

and one more thing please bring proof to what your going to say

MASS KILLING COMMITED BY PALESTINIANS LMAO

Between the night club bombings, and the restaurant bombings, targeting innocent civilians directly, I think I've made my case.

[getting2big]

Originally Posted by NuggzTheNinja

Between the night club bombings, and the restaurant bombings, targeting innocent civilians directly, I think I've made my case.

between sabra and shatila and jenin and the wb i guess i also have made my case

and killing 2 to 5 people in each bombing isnt considered mass killings

[A & B]

Originally Posted by Lieb

why don't they attack the Israel military then, instead of cowardly blowing up/attacking civilian people who have absolutley nothing to do with their "oppression?" Really..why doesn't HAMAS attack soldiers?

Because they are misguided ****ed up people. Seriously, you can't be thinking rationally to blow up children.

Orinigally actually Hamas restricted it's attacks to military, but apparently it didn't last.

But that doesn't change the fact, that military personel are legitimate targest. If Islamic Jihad members are legit targest (which they are IMO), then so is the Israeli military. For God's sakes, you can't expect people to live under occupation and not fight back.

Originally Posted by nuggztheninja

Almost twice as many Jews were kicked out of their homelands in '48, as Arabs.

Nuggz, literally you fabricate statistics like this all the time. The '48 war created between 650,000-900,000 Arab refugee's. As well as 650,000+ Jewish refugee's. Don't make up statistics in order to try and prove a non-existent point. If you can back your claim up, then do it with a source. But I know for a fact that you can't.

[A & B]

Originally Posted by P01Shooter

If you were a muslim arab and were given a choice between fighting someone who has kicked your butt every time or blowing up a pizzaria at lunch what would you choose. Cowardace and fear lead to their tactics. After all, that is why Arafat was put in at the head of the PLO.

Normally I avoid the politics/religion section since tensions can get high but I'm finding most are pretty sane in there posts. Perhaps I'll start a thread on the exodus of Jews from their homes in Arab land. This is perhaps the one topic that solidified in my mind an unwavering support of Isreal and the Jewish people when it comes to the Isreali/Palestinian issue.

Not to take away anything from this thread and it's legitimacy... but you of course realize that Israel has killed far more Palestinian civilians right?

[Skrape]

Originally Posted by A & B

Not to take away anything from this thread and it's legitimacy... but you of course realize that Israel has killed far more Palestinian civilians right?

It's kind of hard to tell who you've killed considering militants are dressed in civillian clothing, and most civillians are militant supporters.

Also , referring to you previous point of fighting the 'opressor' is not terrorism, Israel has withdrawn from Gaza, yet attacks on civillians and the IDF are still staged from Gaza. My question to you is, are those not acts of terrorism, considering that Gaza is no longer under Israeli occupation?

[A & B]

Originally Posted by Skrape

It's kind of hard to tell who you've killed considering militants are dressed in civillian clothing, and most civillians are militant supporters.

Also , referring to you previous point of fighting the 'opressor' is not terrorism, Israel has withdrawn from Gaza, yet attacks on civillians and the IDF are still staged from Gaza. My question to you is, are those not acts of terrorism, considering that Gaza is no longer under Israeli occupation?

It is sometimes difficult to tell.

And yes, they are still justified. I mean, there is still the vast majority of Palestinian land being occupied. If someone placed the United States under occupation, and then withdrew from only California, would you say that Californian's didn't have the right to resistance anymore?

But you know I condemn any attacks on civilians. But just because a civilian is a "militant supporter" doesn't make them targets does it? That's killing someone who hasn't done anything, for a thought crime.

But Gaza is a tricky situation, technically I suppose, there are no troops in Gaza. But Israel still controls it. Israel still has de facto sovereignty in Gaza. The PA is allowed to run the day to day type operations. But Gaza is still under Israeli control.

[NuggzTheNinja]

Originally Posted by A & B

Because they are misguided ****ed up people. Seriously, you can't be thinking rationally to blow up children.

Orinigally actually Hamas restricted it's attacks to military, but apparently it didn't last.

But that doesn't change the fact, that military personel are legitimate targest. If Islamic Jihad members are legit targest (which they are IMO), then so is the Israeli military. For God's sakes, you can't expect people to live under occupation and not fight back.




Nuggz, literally you fabricate statistics like this all the time. The '48 war created between 650,000-900,000 Arab refugee's. As well as 650,000+ Jewish refugee's. Don't make up statistics in order to try and prove a non-existent point. If you can back your claim up, then do it with a source. But I know for a fact that you can't.

This source has it at 900,000.

http://www.yaledailynews.com/article.asp?AID=20342

This source puts the Arab refugees at no more than 650,000, while Jewish refugees numered in the 800,000's.

Sorry, 1 1/2 times as many.

[A & B]

Originally Posted by NuggzTheNinja

This source has it at 900,000.

http://www.yaledailynews.com/article.asp?AID=20342

This source puts the Arab refugees at no more than 650,000, while Jewish refugees numered in the 800,000's.

Sorry, 1 1/2 times as many.

Well, I would have preferred something with a little more weight than a guest column in a e-newsletter written by a college freshman, but I suppose it's a source none the less. But try to get something more credible next time.

But 900,000? I'd like to know where he got that number from, that's by far the highest estimate I've ever heard. The common numbers in books I've read are 650,000 Jewish refugees. And that includes books written by Israeli's.

Either way, it doesn't really matter. I could get sources that say 900,000 Palestinian refugee's (though that's a high estimate too). I would imagine the number is realistically about the same for both. Considering we get ranges of 650,000-900,000 for both, depending on the source.

[NuggzTheNinja]

Originally Posted by A & B

Well, I would have preferred something with a little more weight than a guest column in a e-newsletter written by a college freshman, but I suppose it's a source none the less. But try to get something more credible next time.

But 900,000? I'd like to know where he got that number from, that's by far the highest estimate I've ever heard. The common numbers in books I've read are 650,000 Jewish refugees. And that includes books written by Israeli's.

Either way, it doesn't really matter. I could get sources that say 900,000 Palestinian refugee's (though that's a high estimate too). I would imagine the number is realistically about the same for both. Considering we get ranges of 650,000-900,000 for both, depending on the source.

Yeah, so how is their terrorism justified...?

You don't see Jewish refugees doing terror attacks to the same degree.

And don't start with that "but the Jews could go to Israel" crap, because you know damn well that Jordan admitted Palestinian refugees just the same.