Get ready for Christmas!

[Fitqb]

Every year it seems to come around earlier, as commerical businesses prepare to get the early jump on the holiday season...

Do you think Christmas(TM) is still a religious holiday?

[powerman2000]

Originally Posted by Fitqb

Do you think Christmas(TM) is still a religious holiday?

Not like it once was.

[IceDragon]

Yuletide? Already?

Wow, how fast the wheel turns...yeah, it is getting far too commercialised anyway. It's supposedly about the season to be merry and blah blah blah, but I find most people see it as time to say once a year those three magic little words...

...whadya get me?

[Fitqb]

Originally Posted by IceDragon

...whadya get me?

lol, yeah I have realized that for a lot of people, it is all about the receiving end.

[muirsy88]

I dont believe it ever was....technically. But that's an entirely different debate.

[IceDragon]

Originally Posted by muirsy88

I dont believe it ever was....technically. But that's an entirely different debate.

Of course it was...we may as well debate that here, it's in keeping (kind of) with the topic at hand...

I love Yuletide...decorating a tree, carol singers, snow, making snowmen and then having a snowball fight, hot chocolate and singing carols while wrapping presents, giving everyone a hug and getting away with it because it's the season for it...oh, it's just great! One time of the year I get to bake and really enjoy it...biscuits the kids ice to put on the tree, marshmallow and chocolate pizza, rhubarb and apple crumble, ginger cake...hel, now I've made myself hungry....lol

[muirsy88]

Originally Posted by IceDragon

Of course it was...we may as well debate that here, it's in keeping (kind of) with the topic at hand...

I love Yuletide...decorating a tree, carol singers, snow, making snowmen and then having a snowball fight, hot chocolate and singing carols while wrapping presents, giving everyone a hug and getting away with it because it's the season for it...oh, it's just great! One time of the year I get to bake and really enjoy it...biscuits the kids ice to put on the tree, marshmallow and chocolate pizza, rhubarb and apple crumble, ginger cake...hel, now I've made myself hungry....lol

I should have been more specific...my bad.

I meant to say that 'yes' it is religious (although nothing to do with the birth of Jesus)....and no...I dont believe that the majority of the people celebrate it as a religious holiday. At least where I live.

[xer0xed]

Originally Posted by Fitqb

Every year it seems to come around earlier, as commerical businesses prepare to get the early jump on the holiday season...

Do you think Christmas(TM) is still a religious holiday?

No, and I like it. They should continue using religion to glorify it a bit, as long as it increases sales.

[IceDragon]

Originally Posted by muirsy88

I should have been more specific...my bad.

I meant to say that 'yes' it is religious (although nothing to do with the birth of Jesus)....and no...I dont believe that the majority of the people celebrate it as a religious holiday. At least where I live.

lol I see what you mean. I'm in a funny mood at the moment...Powerman2000 must think I keep picking on him or something lol.

It has lost a lot of the sparkle for most people as we seem to be getting greedier...a lot of "I want" instead of giving people a helping hand like we should do. I try to keep it going though, with having time for friends and family, get-togethers, reunions, stuff like that. I'm naturally a hugger though, and Yuletide is the only time I allow myself to indulge that with family since they aren't that affectionate. Probably the only time I'd get away with it too. lol.

That last couple of sentences makes me sound really sad...oh well.

[frankenstein]

Nope. At the nearest mall to my house, they've had up Christmas decorations for over a week now. Almost 2 months ahead of time. That's disgusting. Halloween is finally tonight!!! By the time I'm old and grey, they'll start throwing up X-mas decorations and the Xmas season will start immediately after the 4th of July.

With that said, Christmas is tons of fun for kids. It's a good reason to get together with your family, to take of work, drink too much wine. It's also become for many the most stressful time of year. Personally, I plan on spreading out gifts for my kids year round instead of saving it for once a year.

[user4165146510]

http://www.buynothingchristmas.org/

This is what I do...

[theredshirt]

i celebrate it as a family holiday, i dont believe in the mysticism behind it. besides its an old pagan ritual anyways

[powerman2000]

Originally Posted by theredshirt

besides its an old pagan ritual anyways

Umm, its not an old pagan ritual. Christmas was created to celebrate the birth of a man named Jesus. It was modeled to compete with another pagan celebration that also happened at that time of the year. Its certainly reasonable and understandable why Christmas was created in that fashion to compete.

[IceDragon]

Originally Posted by powerman2000

Umm, its not an old pagan ritual. Christmas was created to celebrate the birth of a man named Jesus. It was modeled to compete with another pagan celebration that also happened at that time of the year. Its certainly reasonable and understandable why Christmas was created in that fashion to compete.

Created to "compete"...man, I'm not touching that statement with a bargepole...

...I'll get negged into oblivion...

[powerman2000]

Originally Posted by IceDragon

Created to "compete"...man, I'm not touching that statement with a bargepole...

...I'll get negged into oblivion...

Please do my dear.

I'll offer you my protection.

[Health&vigor]

It really never was.......
"The truth is that all of the customs of Christmas pre-date the birth of Jesus Christ, and a study of this would reveal that
Christmas in our day is a collection of traditions and practices taken from many cultures and nations.

The date of December 25th comes from Rome and was a celebration of the Italic god, Saturn, and the rebirth of the sun god.

This was done long before the birth of Jesus.

It was noted by the pre-Christian Romans and other pagans, that daylight began to increase after December 22nd, when they assumed that the sun god died.

These ancients believed that the sun god rose from the dead three days later as the new-born and venerable sun.

Thus, they figured that to be the reason for increasing daylight.

This was a cause for much wild excitement and celebration. Gift giving and merriment filled the temples of ancient Rome, as sacred priests of Saturn, called dendrophori, carried wreaths of evergreen boughs in procession.

In Germany, the evergreen tree was used in worship and celebration of the yule god, also in observance of the resurrected sun god.

The evergreen tree was a symbol of the essence of life and was regarded as a phallic symbol in fertility worship.

Witches and other pagans regarded the red holly as a symbol of the menstrual blood of the queen of heaven, also known as Diana.

The holly wood was used by witches to make wands.

The white berries of mistletoe were believed by pagans to represent droplets of the semen of the sun god.

Both holly and mistletoe were hung in doorways of temples and homes to invoke powers of fertility in those who stood beneath and kissed, causing the spirits of the god and goddess to enter them.

These customs transcended the borders of Rome and Germany to the far reaches of the known world."

[IceDragon]

Originally Posted by powerman2000

Please do my dear.

I'll offer you my protection.

You mean it? Pwomise?

ROFL.

Right, I do actually have a link that describes all this in detail (sorry but it's a lot to write and I'm still slightly inebriated lol) so I can either link to it, or post it here for all to read...it's very good actually.

It contrasts the Christian with the pagan and explains what the crossovers are and why...blah blah blah...you get the point...

[powerman2000]

Originally Posted by IceDragon

It contrasts the Christian with the pagan and explains what the crossovers are and why...blah blah blah...you get the point...

Oh, you mean like the post previous to yours by H&V?

[IceDragon]

Originally Posted by Health&vigor

It really never was.......
"The truth is that all of the customs of Christmas pre-date the birth of Jesus Christ, and a study of this would reveal that
Christmas in our day is a collection of traditions and practices taken from many cultures and nations. Nope, pagan only

The date of December 25th comes from Rome and was a celebration of the Italic god, Saturn, and the rebirth of the sun god. I'll disprove this in a minute...

This was done long before the birth of Jesus.

It was noted by the pre-Christian Romans and other pagans, that daylight began to increase after December 22nd, when they assumed that the sun god died.well hel, he's actually right...

These ancients believed that the sun god rose from the dead three days later as the new-born and venerable sun. ...and this, wow!

Thus, they figured that to be the reason for increasing daylight. ...and funnily enough, this too...

This was a cause for much wild excitement and celebration. Gift giving and merriment filled the temples of ancient Rome, as sacred priests of Saturn, called dendrophori, carried wreaths of evergreen boughs in procession. since when did they have evergreens in Italy...?

In Germany, the evergreen tree was used in worship and celebration of the yule god, also in observance of the resurrected sun god. er...there was no Yule god...something else I'll disprove in a minute...

The evergreen tree was a symbol of the essence of life and was regarded as a phallic symbol in fertility worship. that's just plain crap

Witches and other pagans regarded the red holly as a symbol of the menstrual blood of the queen of heaven, also known as Diana. did they hel. Witches follow more than one, and Diana was never Queen of anything. Aside from that...witches don't believe in heaven...

The holly wood was used by witches to make wands. as were about eleven or twelve other trees...your point?

The white berries of mistletoe were believed by pagans to represent droplets of the semen of the sun god. ROFL...no they weren't! It's because it was so prolific that they related it to fertility, same as rabbits, for obvious reasons...

Both holly and mistletoe were hung in doorways of temples and homes to invoke powers of fertility in those who stood beneath and kissed, causing the spirits of the god and goddess to enter them. yeah, this is BS alright...it was mistletoe only, and that was a fertility rite between couples only...

These customs transcended the borders of Rome and Germany to the far reaches of the known world.again, BS, it originated in Germanic paganism..."

Since that's plagerised in it's entirety, it could have been common courtesy to at least put it in quote marks and quote the source. The mistakes are corrected, by the way. Like I've said to you before, don't believe everything you read.

Well, 3 out of 13 isn't that bad.

[IceDragon]

Originally Posted by powerman2000

Oh, you mean like the post previous to yours by H&V?

He won't like me much...

[cowboyathlete]

Christmas is not even the most important holiday for Christians - Easter is. Christmas has had such a commercial bleed over effect that Chanukah is thrown out of whack for Jews (Yom Kippur is more important for them).

[IceDragon]

Hopefully you'll all find this very helpful. It's by the very people who work tirelessly to promote the truth behind paganism and it's festivals. It's long, but well worth it. Link is at the bottom - have a look, it's got a little flashy tree! lol

PAGAN ANTI-DEFAMATION NETWORK

YULETIDE AND THE WINTER SOLSTICE

The contemporary Christian feast-day of Christmas originates from the vast storehouse of our ancient Pagan past. The actual date of Jesus Christ's birthday is unknown. Even the gospels fail to specify the exact time of his commencement. In fact the Church only set up the official date of Christ's birth in AD 273.

The early Church, eager to win converts from the natural old earth-orientated faiths, saw an immense theocratical advantage to be gained by adopting this native midwinter festival. This crafty spiritual stratagem was applied with equal vigour to ALL our indigenous Pagan feast-days.

The whole Christian year is clandestinely grafted onto a much older Pagan agricultural calendar, which links intimately with the solar orb/seasonal cycles.

Thousands of years before the ‘Christian Cult’ was first instigated, our Pagan forefathers were celebrating the happy feast of the Midwinter Solstice. Everywhere people honoured the birth of the 'SUN-GOD' under his numerous titles and epithets. Midwinter marked the period when the sun was at its lowest point in the sky. This truth was acknowledged and vitalised by the Ancients as the time of 'NEW-BIRTH.' From now onward the days would grow lighter as the solar power of the great ‘Life-Giver’ increased. Christianity merely took the name 'SUN' and converted it into 'SON' so as to give the new intolerant faith from the East a more acceptable countenance for our Pagan ancestors. This clever ruse ensured that the indigenous peoples would still retain their old festival dates whilst jettisoning their original rich spirituality for the new ‘man-made’ monotheistic doctrine.

Most Christmas tradition and customs are transparently based on the old Roman feast of the 'Saturnalia,' which was enjoyed for seven days toward the end of December. During the celebration of the God ‘Saturn’ all schools, courts, businesses etc would remain closed. Slaves and masters would reverse roles with masters serving their subordinates at table etc. Incidentally, this custom still remains within our native consciousness even today. The charity aspect of the Solstice is common to everyone. Army officers still serve their minions at Xmas dinner; employers worldwide still give large parties for their workers and folk exchange loving presents. A small cap known as a 'Pileus' was the Roman sign of a ‘Freeman.’ During the Saturnalia Slaves were allowed to wear this head covering at the banquet. This is a fact worth remembering when people next enter into the party spirit and don silly hats at their Xmas Feast.

The word "Yule" stems from the old Viking word 'Iul' meaning Wheel - Yule being the lowest ebb in the sun's travel through the wheel of the year. The Yule log was traditionally cut from an oak-tree. This wood was sacred to the Thunder God ‘Thor,’ who is also known as 'Thunor'. Incidentally, this deity gives his name to Thursday (Thor’s-day). The Yule log, after being charred by fire, was believed to protect a dwelling from lightening strike. Mistletoe was seen as an all-healing plant and sacred to the Norse deity Balder. This plant was used by Druidic priests and native Healers to promote fertility. It is still used today in a *magickal sense, i.e. the tradition kissing under the Mistletoe! Holly is of course a customary part of Yuletide and like the mistletoe it has traditional connections. It is sacred to ‘Saturn,’ God of the Dying Year and was hung outside houses by the Romans to avert psychic attack, lightening and perceived evils of any kind. Today's Father Christmas image is based upon the Holly-King figure of Odin, the Norse Father - God who rode through the night's sky not on a reindeer but a fast white charger. The aspect of his red and white costume (and flying through the sky) is possibly linked to the use of the brightly coloured hallucinogenic mushroom, Fly Agaric by Norse Shamans and warriors before battle. Xmas Trees originate from ancient rites of the great, Phrygian, mother Goddess ‘Cybele.’ Her worship was brought to Rome in 204BC. A Pine tree was felled and placed within her sacred temple then decorated with lavish adornments of beautiful flowers and coloured wools etc. It is quite likely that the tree custom travelled with the Legions into Germanic localities and amalgamated with native tradition there at some later date. We should possibly give credit for the tree's modern day usage in celebration to ‘Drusus the Elder’ who embarked upon a military campaign for Roman domination against the Germanic and Raetian tribes in 15BC.

Any seriously unbiased investigation into the historical side of Christmas clearly reveals that Christianity has no right whatsoever to claim sole monopoly of the SUN/RESURRECTION GOD situation. The Christian re-born ‘Sun-God Myth’ is but the latest in a long line of ‘deity modifications.’

So why did the Xtian Church hijack original Pagan midwinter solstice celebrations and replace them with Xmas?

Why the 25th December?
Innumerable crucified sun gods have their customary birthday on December 25th. This is because the ancients acknowledged that the sun makes a yearly descent southward in anticipation of December 21st or 22nd, the winter solstice, when it stops moving southerly for three days and next starts to move northward again. During this period our wise ancient forbears affirmed that ‘God's sun’ had ‘died’ for three days and was ‘born again’ on December 25th. The ancients realised that they needed the sun to come back every day and that they would be in immense difficulty if the sun continued to move southward and did not stop and repeal its direction. Therefore, countless diverse cultures celebrated their ‘Sun of God’s’ anniversary on December 25th. Fundamentalists within the early Xtian Church merely adopted the heathen, earth-orientated midwinter celebrations to equate with their newly fashioned adaptation of the sun god, Jesus Christ known as the ‘Son of God!’

The following are prominent qualities of the ubiquitous ‘Sun God’ mythos which can be related to contemporary Xtian revision of older Pagan mythology.

The sun dies for three days on December 22nd, the winter solstice, when it stops in travels southward, to be born again (resurrected) on December 25th, when it continues its progress north.
* In various areas, the calendar originally began in the constellation of Virgo and the sun would consequently be perceived as being born of a ‘virgin’.
* The sun is of course the ‘Light of the World.’
* The sun ‘cometh on clouds and every eye shall see him.’
* The sun rising in the morning is the ‘Saviour of mankind.’
* The sun wears a corona, crown of thorns or ‘circle of light’ (halo).
* The sun is seen to ‘walk on water.’
* The sun's follower’s helpers (disciples) are the 12 months and the 12 signs of the zodiac or constellations, through which the sun has to pass.
* The sun at 12 noon is in the house/temple of the ‘Most High,’ consequently ‘he’ begins ‘his Father's work’ at the age of 12.
* The sun enters each sign of the zodiac at 30°; hence, the ‘Sun of God’ begins his ministry at the age of 30.
* The sun is hung on a cross (crucified) which represents its passing through the equinoxes, the spring/vernal equinox being Easter, at which time it is then reborn.
The early Church made light work of presenting its newly formed Christ god to the Pagan masses and quite easily substituted a wholesome solar/agricultural calendar for a new man made one based of its theocratical, monotheistic agenda.

There is nothing new under the sun!

Attis, Adonis, Sol, Mithras, these Gods and numerous others were celebrated during seasonal solar cycles long before the ‘Jesus story’ was ever created by sectarian monotheistic interest groups with an axe to ground against the social structure of the day! I wonder WHO will contest the title next?

We would do well to recall the old maxim: "History repeats itself." Yuletide/Midwinter Solstice is an indispensable element of our indigenous, Pagan spiritual heritage. It conjoins us with the wondrous seasonal energies of this planet of which we are all an integral part. We should always celebrate and enjoy it to the full!

http://home.freeuk.net/patregan/yule.htm

[Stinker]

X-mas is a time for getting together with the family and eating ham, what more do you need to know?

[IceDragon]

Originally Posted by Stinker

X-mas is a time for getting together with the family and eating ham, what more do you need to know?

Ham? HAM? Man, we have turkey...and stuffing...and yorkshires...and crispy roast tatties, and gravy and parsnips....ooh, love my Yuletide feast...

Not forgetting the pud with brandy sauce...delish..

[Revolver45]

On the whole? No, I don't think most people call it a religious holiday anymore, sadly. For me it still is, and for the Christian community I think it is, but even we tend to commercialize it a bit too much I think. At very least though it is 2 days filled with delicious bulking meals and enough leftovers to last a week .

[theredshirt]

Originally Posted by Revolver45

On the whole? No, I don't think most people call it a religious holiday anymore, sadly. For me it still is, and for the Christian community I think it is, but even we tend to commercialize it a bit too much I think. At very least though it is 2 days filled with delicious bulking meals and enough leftovers to last a week .

sounds like gluttony to me

[powerman2000]

Originally Posted by theredshirt

sounds like gluttony to me

Yeeeeah baby!

[siamesedream]

I celebrate it as a religious holiday as well as a holidy full of the simple spirit of giving.

[Health&vigor]

Originally Posted by IceDragon

Since that's plagerised in it's entirety, it could have been common courtesy to at least put it in quote marks and quote the source. The mistakes are corrected, by the way. Like I've said to you before, don't believe everything you read.

Well, 3 out of 13 isn't that bad.

Give me a break this is a message board not term paper and I did use quotes!
Anyway here is the source, so you can quit crying:
Like it matters..............
http://www.lasttrumpetministries.org/tracts/tract3.html
Oh and for future reference any post that I make that is in quotes is from another website.
I don't always feel the need to reference the URL.

However thanks for the correction and you should take your own advice, "don't believe everything you read."

[IceDragon]

Originally Posted by Health&vigor

Give me a break this is a message board not term paper and I did use quotes!
Anyway here is the source, so you can quit crying:
Like it matters..............
http://www.lasttrumpetministries.org/tracts/tract3.html
Oh and for future reference any post that I make that is in quotes is from another website.
I don't always feel the need to reference the URL.

However thanks for the correction and you should take your own advice, "don't believe everything you read."

lol At least you acknowledge you completely plagerised it...oh, and I don't need to take my own advice. I already do. I don't believe everything I read unless I've tried and tested it out from at least three other unbiased sources. Your just pissed off because I know more about it than you do. Woop-de-****.

Aside from that, you shouldn't have taken it as read because it's a Christian site, so biased in the extreme.

You forgot a major bit at the bottom...ignored deliberately perhaps? You found something that you didn't like maybe? Yup, thought you would....can you say "owned"???

A simple study of the tactics of the Romish Church reveals that in every case, the church absorbed the customs, traditions and general paganism of every tribe, culture and nation in their efforts to increase the number of people under their control.

In short, the Romish church told all of these pagan cultures, "Bring your gods, goddesses, rituals and rites, and we will assign Christian sounding titles and names to them.

When Martin Luther started the reformation on October 31st, 1517, and other reformers followed his lead, all of them took with them the paganism that was so firmly imbedded in Rome.

These reformers left Christmas intact.

In England, as the authorized Bible became available to the common people by the decree of King James the II in 1611, people began to discover the pagan roots of Christmas, which are clearly revealed in Scripture.

The Puritans in England, and later in Massachusetts Colony, outlawed this holiday as witchcraft.

Near the end of the nineteenth century, when other Bible versions began to appear, there was a revival of the celebration of Christmas.

We are now seeing ever-increasing celebrating of Christmas or Yule, its true name, as we draw closer to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ!

In both witchcraft circles and contemporary Christian churches, the same things are going on.

As the Bible clearly states in Jeremiah 10:2-4, "Thus saith the Lord, learn not the way of the heathen; and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven. For the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain. For one cutteth a tree out of the forest. The work of the hands of the workman with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold. They fasten it with nails and with hammers that it move not."

So, what is wrong with Christmas?

1. To say that Jesus was born on December 25th is a lie! The true date is sometime in September according to the Scriptures.

2. Trees, wreaths, holly, mistletoe and the like are strictly forbidden as pagan and heathen! To say that these are Christian or that they can be made Christian is a lie!

3. The Lord never spoke of commemorating his birth but rather commanded us to remember the sacrifice of His suffering and death, which purchased our salvation.

Think about it! Can we worship and honor God by involving ourselves with customs and traditions, which God Himself forbade as idolatry? Can we convince God to somehow "Christianize" these customs and the whole pretense and lie of Christmas, so we can enjoy ourselves? Can we obey through disobedience?

So what is right about Christmas? 1. Nothing!