On Rwanda: Recommended Reading!

wayoutwest · 07-19-2005, 12:41 AM

I just finished reading "Shake Hands with the Devil: The failure of humanity in Rwanda" by Lt. Gen. Romeo Dallaire.
I found it to be an awesome read, compelling yet disturbing. I would suggest everyone to read it.
Hard to understand how the world can allow such tragedies such as the Rwanda genocide to take place. Even after the world vowed after the Holocaust to never let such heinous acts occur again, but even now we see such violence recurring: in Sudan, Rwanda, Congo, and various parts of the world. Can we ever look beyond self-interest to the interest and well-being of humanity as a whole?

MushMouth · 07-19-2005, 12:58 AM

It would help if people first heard about these attrocities. I'm still haunted by the descriptions of what goes on in some of these countries that I first heard about in Shawcross's Deliver Us From Evil.

Really, how many people here in America have even heard of the Lord's Resistance Army? Not many, I'm sure, which is odd considering they might well be the most evil organization on the planet, imo.

wayoutwest · 07-19-2005, 01:19 AM

good post and link Mush.

heres some links that provide info on the rwanda genocide:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/evil/

http://www.hrw.org/reports/1999/rwan...2.htm#P21_7273

irpker · 07-19-2005, 02:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wayoutwest

Can we ever look beyond self-interest to the interest and well-being of humanity as a whole?

Not when that self-interest will lead to the deaths of thousands of young men to stop a brutal conflict in a land thousands of miles from home. It's hard to write a letter home to the mother of a Marine saying : "Sorry, your son died in a jungle somewhere in Sub-Saharran Africa trying to stop a brutal political-ethnic war. But feel proud that humanity has benefitted at the expense of your son's life.''

majortrepak · 07-19-2005, 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irpker

Not when that self-interest will lead to the deaths of thousands of young men to stop a brutal conflict in a land thousands of miles from home. It's hard to write a letter home to the mother of a Marine saying : "Sorry, your son died in a jungle somewhere in Sub-Saharran Africa trying to stop a brutal political-ethnic war. But feel proud that humanity has benefitted at the expense of your son's life.''

must such wars will never end just a half-time break then they start again
(look at bosina it been going on from 1000 a.d.I think)

DKM · 08-04-2005, 08:03 AM

I am currently watching the movie Hotel Rwanda. It's amazing how people can do this. The movie has affected me so deeply that I hate every human being at this point for being so selfish and not doing more to better the world. I take the train and I hear people about buying flat screen TVs and walk around and see people driving around SL500s and I think to myself how lucky they are that no one is coming at them with a machete.

MushMouth · 08-04-2005, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DKM

I am currently watching the movie Hotel Rwanda. It's amazing how people can do this. The movie has affected me so deeply that I hate every human being at this point for being so selfish and not doing more to better the world. I take the train and I hear people about buying flat screen TVs and walk around and see people driving around SL500s and I think to myself how lucky they are that no one is coming at them with a machete.

The Khartoum gov't in Sudan has endorsed the systematic rape of women (including children) during the current genocide in Darfur. When Doctors Without Borders issued a report on this issue the gov't responded by throwing the lead doctor in jail.

Meanwhile the world was dragging its feet while the US blocked efforts to intervene because it didn't want to endorse the ICC, Russia blocked because it wanted to keep selling arms to the Sudanese militants, and China blocked because it didn't want to compromise its oil interests in Sudan.

EDIT - And also, tv was busy not covering this tragedy. http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstrac...AE0894DD404482

Quote:

According to monitoring by the Tyndall Report, ABC News had a total of 18 minutes of the Darfur genocide in its nightly newscasts all last year - and that turns out to be a credit to Peter Jennings. NBC had only 5 minutes of coverage all last year, and CBS only 3 minutes - about a minute of coverage for every 100,000 deaths. In contrast, Martha Stewart received 130 minutes of coverage by the three networks

run213 · 08-04-2005, 09:38 AM

Frontline On pbs did a great documentary called The ghosts of Rawanda. After seeing this you realize how totaly useless the UN is also the Clinton admin takes a huge hit Madeline Albright must have trouble sleeping at night. I give PBS credit on this. Seeing how they tilt to the left on most of there programing.

Dave22reborn · 08-04-2005, 10:24 AM

And what exactly were we supposed to do????? People still had the memories of Somalia in their heads. Remember that???? We were just trying to help out there too.

And what would you do???? Station troops over there??? How long would they stay there?? Because once we left they would just go back at it again.

A & B · 08-04-2005, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave22reborn

And what exactly were we supposed to do????? People still had the memories of Somalia in their heads. Remember that???? We were just trying to help out there too.

And what would you do???? Station troops over there??? How long would they stay there?? Because once we left they would just go back at it again.

Your government and the rest of the world turned a blind eye to the brutral slaughter of 800,000 people, including 300,000 children. The US government in particular made sure that no substancial relief ever got to Rwanda, they sabotaged the efforts at every turn. Stop trying to justify it.

Odd, do you think that the world was justified in letting the Holocaust happen too?

Dave22reborn · 08-04-2005, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A & B

Your government and the rest of the world turned a blind eye to the brutral slaughter of 800,000 people, including 300,000 children. The US government in particular made sure that no substancial relief ever got to Rwanda, they sabotaged the efforts at every turn. Stop trying to justify it.

Odd, do you think that the world was justified in letting the Holocaust happen too?

I didn't see Canada doing anything pal. Plus we're not the only country in the world, why didn't any of the middle eastern countries do anything??? Why didn't Europe?? Or China??

Don't put the blame solely on the US.

Thy_Kingdom · 08-04-2005, 12:03 PM

I caught the documentary on CBC with the same name ''Shaking Hands..'', very informative. At the end of the documentary, they mentioned that the tutsi and hutu's roles were reversed 10 years later.

run213 · 08-04-2005, 01:15 PM

The sad thing about Rawanda is that a force of about 100 troops could have stoped the whole thing the UN comander was begging the UN to let him stop the murders and Koffi said no . Clinton didnt want to do anything Either they couldnt decide if what was going on was technically called a genocide if it was they said they would help. so they used this bizzare excuse of saying that if they wernt sure it was genocide then they coulnt act. This whole situation lies at the feet of the UN with clinton also being guilty. Of course every other country was guilty also but with the exception of theUK and Australia the rest of the world rarely does any thing to stop these attrocities. If you watch this documentary. You will loose all respect for the UN. this slaughter could have been easily avoided.

DKM · 08-05-2005, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MushMouth

The Khartoum gov't in Sudan has endorsed the systematic rape of women (including children) during the current genocide in Darfur. When Doctors Without Borders issued a report on this issue the gov't responded by throwing the lead doctor in jail.

Meanwhile the world was dragging its feet while the US blocked efforts to intervene because it didn't want to endorse the ICC, Russia blocked because it wanted to keep selling arms to the Sudanese militants, and China blocked because it didn't want to compromise its oil interests in Sudan.

EDIT - And also, tv was busy not covering this tragedy. http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstrac...AE0894DD404482

In your opinion, what can one person do about such things? Besides contributing to Amnesty International or taking up arms yourself, is there anything one person can do?

MushMouth · 08-05-2005, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DKM

In your opinion, what can one person do about such things? Besides contributing to Amnesty International or taking up arms yourself, is there anything one person can do?

Spread the word. Raise awareness. Write your representatives and let them know you are concerned. Right you local paper or tv station and let them know that you would like to see coverage of these stories.

For instance, Niger is now undergoing a famine. The UN had issued a report last Oct warning that starvation was imminent for the people of Niger and asked for aid. No one responded. But several weeks ago the BBC ran a story about the now starving and dying children there and the world is now donating money for relief. It will now cost $80 a day to feed the starving, if the world had responded in Oct. it would have cost $1 a day.