PUAs=AFCs

[Johnny Rocket]

What's the point of being a PUA (a "pick up artist", as they say)? I mean, what's the fun in trying so hard to be someone else to make girls like you? it's like you want to stop being yourself to try to be the ken doll barbie always dreamed of... "cocky, funny, with temperament, someone that loves me but is not needy" if you try to be a PUA you will be just a facade of a real man, when deep inside you're still an insecure guy who needs constant women attention to be happy. "cocky and funny"... and what if I'm not cocky and funny? isn't it pathetic to try to be cocky and funny when you aren't to attract girls? I'm a serious guy, if a woman wants me to be funnier, **** her; I don't joke.

Dear PUA, if you're reading this: Do you ever try to be yourself to see if there's a woman out there that will like you for who you really are?, and not just because you did this and that and now she thinks you're the most uber-alpha of the alpha men? do you sometimes take out that fake mask you created to reveal the real "you"? or is it that you don't have a "real you" anymore? and you turned yourself into something plastic, hollow and lifeless, a clone of a clone of a clone of another "alpha man" without personality; do you know you need more balls to reveal yourself as you are than to be someone else to cover it?

I'm myself all the time, I'm not a nice guy; I'm just myself... with my quirkiness, sometimes awkwardness, strange sense of humor, individualism and arrogance and above all: HONESTY; sometimes this gives me problems with women, they tend to hate my guts because I don't turn out to be as they hoped... and sometimes for some reason they just seem to totally love how I don't give a **** about them, they're always waiting for me to be or do something that I'm not, what that is, I don't know and don't care. "what you see is what you get", "take it or leave it".

If you want girls to chase you, don't be a sissy PUA and follow the theories that some tool wrote, or waste your time carefully examining how a woman thinks, be a JERK like the real men, women don't like PUAs, they like JERKS that aren't willing to change into what THEY want.

How do you become a jerk? it's the opposite of becoming a PUA: don't give a **** about what women think of you; just love yourself and no one else; and be happy.

[sword chucks]

yay another contradiction

[peng]

Good advice.

I only disagree on one point: being a jerk. If someone isn't naturally like that, it's like saying "don't be this, be that". It's on the same level as "doing something to impress the ladies".

I think the slightly different, but related point of caring about yourself is more accurate. You shouldn't aim for "jerk", you should aim for being happy with yourself, and caring about yourself more than the ladies.

i.e. focus on yourself and not others.

Or some **** like that.

But yeah, I basically agree.

[drstrangepimp]

You guys have zero grasp of the PUA thing. Your criticism is laughable.

Being a PUA or whatever you guys call it is about ****ing alot of women, not getting a GF. You will not **** alot of women being Mr. nice boring guy or Mr. mean boring guy who doesn't dress well, or approach, have good verbal skills, etc.

Remember if you want a good sex life after college, women don't just fall in your lap. You're gonna have to pick them up = PUA by definition. You can either be good at it of suck. If you're good you're a PUA.

Originally Posted by Johnny Rocket

How do you become a jerk? it's the opposite of becoming a PUA: don't give a **** about what women think of you; just love yourself and no one else; and be happy.

That' basically what a PUA is except I'm more of a fun guy. I make women laugh by being a playful jerk.

Sorry bub I have already tried the common definition of "being a jerk". That bug hit me when I first started reading ASF. Girls don't like jerks unless you do it in a fun way. Being mean doesn't help you pick up.

Again you don't know what we do so quit criticising it. I don't care what you do yourself but don't tell me what I or any other PUAs do. There are alot of different approaches out there and many DO work.

P.S. At this point most of the stuff I do is my own. I direct people to things I have found helpful along the way. Everything is from EXPERIENCE, not theories that are untested.

And I love how people say "why do you try so hard to get women". I probably spend less money and time on my 3 gfs than most guys spend on 1.

When you understand how women think it gets EASIER not harder. I have a suspicion that the guys who think it is so much work to understand tactics are a little dumb.

I told a guy to try standing not facing the girl when talking and he was like "that's too much to think about". LOL

I seldom ever get a truly negative reaction from a woman, even if I don't **** her she usually has a good time with the interaction. To me that's what it's all about. I just like to make them smile.

[Johnny Rocket]

Originally Posted by peng

If someone isn't naturally like that, it's like saying "don't be this, be that". It's on the same level as "doing something to impress the ladies".

But being overly nice with women is NOT a personality trait... but something guys do because they're insecure of themselves, they think they're worthless if they can't get women attention, so they kiss their feet to gain their respect... but they're losing it.

[EGun247]

If you wear a mask long enough then it becomes your true face.

[drstrangepimp]

Originally Posted by Johnny Rocket

But being overly nice with women is NOT a personality trait... but something guys do because they're insecure of themselves, they think they're worthless if they can't get women attention, so they kiss their feet to gain their respect... but they're losing it.

Yes, this whole supplicating attitude stems from the inner belief that the woman has higher status than he does, so he does things to try to get her to like him or to impress her, which lowers his status in her eyes.

Women interpret eveything you do, they are very good at picking out losers by their behavior and body language, inner beliefs, etc.

Then he tries to get to know her on a genuine personal level but she doesn't want to because she feels he is not in her league. Worthwhile women don't want to get to know every boring loser that comes along.

If you've ever tried to talk to a girl and she just will not get into anything you say even though you are being nice and friendly, you can bet it's because she thinks she's better than you.

It's amazing how you can lean back and start teasing her and making her laugh and all the sudden she wants to know more about you.

High status guys behave this way around women because they are comfortable with attractive women. The woman interprets this as you being a high status guy who gets laid. Therefore you deserve her. Women like guys who are comfortable around them and feel worthy of them. They also like guys who they feel could get other women. They want to be chosen by a guy who has options and picked her because she is special.

Women don't like low status guys so it all goes downhill when you start sucking up.

It's also phony and they see right through it. They know you are kissing their ass in hopes of getting something out of it and anytime a girl thinks you are doing something just to get in her pants she shuts you down.

So when people say "be real, be yourself" that's actually good advice if you understand what it means. Most men who are having trouble cannot do it. They don't have the self esteem.

[Jay Rawd]

Johnny, I hate to break it to you, but you have the attitude of a PUA. You're actually contradicting yourself just by making this thread. LOL

[captain_insano]

Originally Posted by Johnny Rocket

What's the point of being a PUA (a "pick up artist", as they say)? I mean, what's the fun in trying so hard to be someone else to make girls like you? it's like you want to stop being yourself to try to be the ken doll barbie always dreamed of... "cocky, funny, with temperament, someone that loves me but is not needy" if you try to be a PUA you will be just a facade of a real man, when deep inside you're still an insecure guy who needs constant women attention to be happy. "cocky and funny"... and what if I'm not cocky and funny? isn't it pathetic to try to be cocky and funny when you aren't to attract girls? I'm a serious guy, if a woman wants me to be funnier, **** her; I don't joke.

Dear PUA, if you're reading this: Do you ever try to be yourself to see if there's a woman out there that will like you for who you really are?, and not just because you did this and that and now she thinks you're the most uber-alpha of the alpha men? do you sometimes take out that fake mask you created to reveal the real "you"? or is it that you don't have a "real you" anymore? and you turned yourself into something plastic, hollow and lifeless, a clone of a clone of a clone of another "alpha man" without personality; do you know you need more balls to reveal yourself as you are than to be someone else to cover it?

I'm myself all the time, I'm not a nice guy; I'm just myself... with my quirkiness, sometimes awkwardness, strange sense of humor, individualism and arrogance and above all: HONESTY; sometimes this gives me problems with women, they tend to hate my guts because I don't turn out to be as they hoped... and sometimes for some reason they just seem to totally love how I don't give a **** about them, they're always waiting for me to be or do something that I'm not, what that is, I don't know and don't care. "what you see is what you get", "take it or leave it".

If you want girls to chase you, don't be a sissy PUA and follow the theories that some tool wrote, or waste your time carefully examining how a woman thinks, be a JERK like the real men, women don't like PUAs, they like JERKS that aren't willing to change into what THEY want.

How do you become a jerk? it's the opposite of becoming a PUA: don't give a **** about what women think of you; just love yourself and no one else; and be happy.

I didnt bother to read much of that ****. Who cares if you have to be someone your not to **** a chick. Its not like everyone is looking for a serious relationship as you obviously are. Your appoach will get you sex on the 20th date, and Marriage and kids in the short-mid term. The AFC-PUA approach will get you laid and get you moving on to the next girl.

Its really a lifestyle choice.

[Jay Rawd]

Originally Posted by captain_insano

I didnt bother to read much of that ****. Who cares if you have to be someone your not to **** a chick. Its not like everyone is looking for a serious relationship as you obviously are. Your appoach will get you sex on the 20th date, and Marriage and kids in the short-mid term. The AFC-PUA approach will get you laid and get you moving on to the next girl.

Its really a lifestyle choice.

What's funny about guys like Johnny is that they do some of the stuff that PUA's do without even knowing it, and just knock the PUA stuff for whatever reason. Johnny talked about how men should be something that women want to change, but can't, and that's pretty much what a real PUA is in terms of attitude and behaviour. PUA stuff is just here to remind men how to think like real men and attempt to erase all the feminazi propaganda that teachers and parents have instilled in our brains since we were born. **** like "be nice to girls," "buy them stuff," etc. Learning PUA tactics is about going back to what we should be: ourselves. Men were made to be dominant and leaders. It's just that the advice "be yourself" is so misinterpreted that it actually ends up screwing many guys in the ass because they have low self esteem and have years of bad programming (feminazi crap) that takes a while to reverse the damage. Be yourself means being relaxed, confident, and not outcome dependent. Just having fun, making fun, and sitting back and enjoying the ride. It just happens that when you're not comfortable with yourself and are still struggling to find your own identity, "being yourself" is in fact the opposite because you're not sure who you really are. You can't tell an insecure person to be themselves, because with their insecurity, how can they know who they are?

I can tell you that me, sword_, drstrangepimp, I Love You, mASF, Sauce-Head, The Experiment, and other guys are all very different people. mASFers embrace individuality. That's one of the reasons that PUA's peacock, because being a PUA is all about standing out and not being like anyone else.

[Johnny Rocket]

Originally Posted by Jay Rawd

Johnny, I hate to break it to you, but you have the attitude of a PUA. You're actually contradicting yourself just by making this thread. LOL

I must say I think you and drstrangepimp are really intelligent people, everything you say is true; and I can tell you by experience, sometimes it feels like you're reading my mind.

PUAs have some ideas right, I can't deny it; but at the same time; I think they still feel the NEED of getting the aproval of the women; they're still needy just like AFCs.

Drstrangepimp said that being a PUA is "a way of getting sex", a lifestyle, that would be allright, but he also seems to say that if you're not a PUA, you're an AFC... that leaves me with no options.

[Jay Rawd]

Originally Posted by Johnny Rocket

I must say I think you and drstrangepimp are really intelligent people, everything you say is true; and I can tell you by experience, sometimes it feels like you're reading my mind.

PUAs have some ideas right, I can't deny it; but at the same time; I think they still feel the NEED of getting the aproval of the women; they're still needy just like AFCs.

Drstrangepimp said that being a PUA is "a way of getting sex", a lifestyle, that would be allright, but he also seems to say that if you're not a PUA, you're an AFC... that leaves me with no options.

It's really just a hobby like bodybuilding. It's fun and is something to do in our free time. That, and by hooking up with many women, a PUA has greater chances of finding "the one" if he ever wants to settle down. You can't find the right girl if you don't look, and a PUA is just looking if you think about it. Sitting in your mom's basement and playing video games is not going to get you a decent girlfriend, if it gets you ANY girlfriend at all.

[drstrangepimp]

Originally Posted by Johnny Rocket

I must say I think you and drstrangepimp are really intelligent people, everything you say is true; and I can tell you by experience, sometimes it feels like you're reading my mind.

PUAs have some ideas right, I can't deny it; but at the same time; I think they still feel the NEED of getting the aproval of the women; they're still needy just like AFCs.

Drstrangepimp said that being a PUA is "a way of getting sex", a lifestyle, that would be allright, but he also seems to say that if you're not a PUA, you're an AFC... that leaves me with no options.

I guess as long as you have what you want and you're not getting walked on by the woman you're with you're not an AFC.

Let me say though I think if you aren't at the player level of handling women or your girl isn't just super cool and easy to manage, that's a tall order.

Girls have a way of testing guys, trying to get them pissed off, flirting with other guys, you see it all day on these forums - guys complaining about these issues.

Knowing what I know I EXPECT this and it's easy for me to deal with because I'm not an idealist in denial.

As for being needy, I do need women. I love them, and I'll do alot to make myself more attractive to them.

However, I don't need any PARTICULAR one, hence I'm not at the mercy of any particular one.

Just that revelation alone can do wonders for a guy's self esteem and they way he comes across to women.

[drstrangepimp]

Originally Posted by Jay Rawd

It's really just a hobby like bodybuilding. It's fun and is something to do in our free time. That, and by hooking up with many women, a PUA has greater chances of finding "the one" if he ever wants to settle down. You can't find the right girl if you don't look, and a PUA is just looking if you think about it. Sitting in your mom's basement and playing video games is not going to get you a decent girlfriend, if it gets you ANY girlfriend at all.

That's a good point, most guys choose their wife out of 5-6 gfs that they met randomly. Shopping around is always a good idea.

It's also fun, I look at it as a thrill, something fun to do not a need.

[Jay Rawd]

Originally Posted by drstrangepimp

I guess as long as you have what you want and you're not getting walked on by the woman you're with you're not an AFC.

Let me say though I think if you aren't at the player level of handling women or your girl isn't just super cool and easy to manage, that's a tall order.

Girls have a way of testing guys, trying to get them pissed off, flirting with other guys, you see it all day on these forums - guys complaining about these issues.

Knowing what I know I EXPECT this and it's easy for me to deal with because I'm not an idealist in denial.

As for being needy, I do need women. I love them, and I'll do alot to make myself more attractive to them.

However, I don't need any PARTICULAR one, hence I'm not at the mercy of any particular one.

That's a good point, because alot of guys who have a girl who is super cool to them and easy to manage are good with other women as well, even if they don't want to sleep around. I saw this back in high school with the All American halfback who was ****ing the hottest girl in the school. She was so cool to him and she never even flirted with other guys much while he had so much fun with other girls, even if he didn't sleep with them. This was all in front of her, too.

[Jay Rawd]

Originally Posted by drstrangepimp

That's a good point, most guys choose their wife out of 5-6 gfs that they met randomly. Shopping around is always a good idea.

It's also fun, I look at it as a thrill, something fun to do not a need.

I'm not really sure if I want to get married, but if I ever feel like settling down, at least I know I have many options open, and can visit everything from the department store to the outlet mall to see what good deal I can find on a outfit I plan to wear often and for a long time.

[drstrangepimp]

Originally Posted by Jay Rawd

That's a good point, because alot of guys who have a girl who is super cool to them and easy to manage are good with other women as well, even if they don't want to sleep around. I saw this back in high school with the All American halfback who was ****ing the hottest girl in the school. She was so cool to him and she never even flirted with other guys much while he had so much fun with other girls, even if he didn't sleep with them. This was all in front of her, too.

Now that I think about it...

That's true, the more the girl likes you the more likely she is to be that way. Absolutely.

That's sort of what I meant by how knowing how to maintain attractive behavior can prolong your relationships.

I think if they guy was acting all insecure and asking her constantly if she loved him and never talked to any other girls, she would behave much differently.

It's amazing how they actually get annoyed with that and start causing trouble.

[Jay Rawd]

Originally Posted by drstrangepimp

Now that I think about it...

That's true, the more the girl likes you the more likely she is to be that way. Absolutely.

That's sort of what I meant by how knowing how to maintain attractive behavior can prolong your relationships.

I think if they guy was acting all insecure and asking her constantly if she loved him and never talked to any other girls, she would behave much differently.

It's amazing how they actually get annoyed with that and start wandering.

Yeah, in fact it was the other way around. From what I saw, she was always asking him if he loved her and basically couldn't stop talking about how awesome he was and how she would do anything for him. She was wbAFC around this guy.

Not a good-looking guy either. Just a short 5'6 120 lber with a gut, although playing for the team did up his status by alot, but that's another story.

[rungrl]

So let me see if I understand this correctly......all of your advice on how to act around girls is judged only on how many girls you actually have sex with.

So, when you are older and actually looking for a GF or wife, will your behavior change?

[Jay Rawd]

Originally Posted by rungrl

So let me see if I understand this correctly......all of your advice on how to act around girls is judged only on how many girls you actually have sex with.

So, when you are older and actually looking for a GF or wife, will your behavior change?

When I'm older and if I'm looking for a wife, NO my behaviour won't change. If the way I act can prolong the relationship, why would I want to change that?

[Jay Rawd]

Originally Posted by rungrl

So let me see if I understand this correctly......all of your advice on how to act around girls is judged only on how many girls you actually have sex with.

So, when you are older and actually looking for a GF or wife, will your behavior change?

It's not just about sex, bro. It's about the fun in the interaction with females, playing around with them, just having a good time in general. It's all fun, not just the goal, but the whole process. In fact I don't sex itself shouldn't really a goal. It's about the fun in the whole process. Basically if you don't even have fun talking to girls and playing with them and if sex is your only goal, then you should stay away from PUA stuff because you have other issues to deal with. That, and you won't be getting laid much. Who wants a prick that doesn't know how to have fun and is boring? Because if you have this attitude you ain't getting any, unless you have other **** like money, good-looks, etc.

[rungrl]

Other's have said that it is all about having sex with a girl....so you seem to have different views on what the "goal" of your behavior is.

I just don't think your way of thinking and behaving will work forever, maybe when you're 18 and girls are naive and all about getting attention.....or maybe with girls who aren't exactly bright or high quality.

I just think that "older" more established women will see right through your behavior....if you're acting like someone you're not, they will see this.

If you ARE a fun confident guy GREAT, if you read stuff to learn how to act, it's bordering on pathetic. This is a general comment, not directed at anyone.

I hear so many of my friends talk about being attracted to the guys who are "confident in their own way"...meaning they don't have to do any deliberate actions to show they are confident. Or they say "he's sooo good-looking, and him acting like he's a regular guy makes him even more attractive".

[Jay Rawd]

Originally Posted by rungrl

Other's have said that it is all about having sex with a girl....so you seem to have different views on what the "goal" of your behavior is.

I just don't think your way of thinking and behaving will work forever, maybe when you're 18 and girls are naive and all about getting attention.....or maybe with girls who aren't exactly bright or high quality.

I just think that "older" more established women will see right through your behavior....if you're acting like someone you're not, they will see this.

If you ARE a fun confident guy GREAT, if you read stuff to learn how to act, it's bordering on pathetic. This is a general comment, not directed at anyone.

I hear so many of my friends talk about being attracted to the guys who are "confident in their own way"...meaning they don't have to do any deliberate actions to show they are confident. Or they say "he's sooo good-looking, and him acting like he's a regular guy makes him even more attractive".

Read my posts on top, I am getting borderline aggravated with having to explain why reading PUA stuff is important for guys who act like little girls and don't take charge. Scroll up so I don't have to get arthritis or Carpal Tunnel Syndrome.

[Jay Rawd]

Originally Posted by rungrl

Other's have said that it is all about having sex with a girl....so you seem to have different views on what the "goal" of your behavior is.

I just don't think your way of thinking and behaving will work forever, maybe when you're 18 and girls are naive and all about getting attention.....or maybe with girls who aren't exactly bright or high quality.

I just think that "older" more established women will see right through your behavior....if you're acting like someone you're not, they will see this.

If you ARE a fun confident guy GREAT, if you read stuff to learn how to act, it's bordering on pathetic. This is a general comment, not directed at anyone.

I hear so many of my friends talk about being attracted to the guys who are "confident in their own way"...meaning they don't have to do any deliberate actions to show they are confident. Or they say "he's sooo good-looking, and him acting like he's a regular guy makes him even more attractive".

You're talking about "being yourself" and all that other crap, but then why are you always preaching about how all guys should dress alike? Kinda contradicting yourself, sweetheart.

[rungrl]

I NEVER tried to define how all guys should dress....I always said it was just my preference. Just like my preference is for guys with their own personality, not one they read on a forum.

[Fender85]

Originally Posted by rungrl

Or they say "he's sooo good-looking, and him acting like he's a regular guy makes him even more attractive".

So what defines a "regular" guy? Remember, normal is only a setting on a washer and dryer . . .

[I Still Love U]

Originally Posted by rungrl

Other's have said that it is all about having sex with a girl....so you seem to have different views on what the "goal" of your behavior is.

I just don't think your way of thinking and behaving will work forever, maybe when you're 18 and girls are naive and all about getting attention.....or maybe with girls who aren't exactly bright or high quality.

I just think that "older" more established women will see right through your behavior....if you're acting like someone you're not, they will see this.

So far, all the evidence points to NO.

A couple weeks back I layed a 29 year old within 4 hours of meeting her.

The only difference is with younger teenage girls, they need attention/attract material more than the older women. Younger ones tend to flake like f u ck, which is annoying.

If you ARE a fun confident guy GREAT, if you read stuff to learn how to act, it's bordering on pathetic. This is a general comment, not directed at anyone.

This is completely LEARNABLE.

ANYONE can pull this off. Although, the better looking you are, the more mistakes you can afford to make.

I hear so many of my friends talk about being attracted to the guys who are "confident in their own way"...meaning they don't have to do any deliberate actions to show they are confident. Or they say "he's sooo good-looking, and him acting like he's a regular guy makes him even more attractive".

Meaning girls aren't very good at quantifying what causes attraction.

This has been field tested for over a decade now by hundreds of guys.

It has been proven to work over and over.

Why is this argument still going on?

[Jay Rawd]

Originally Posted by I Still Love U

So far, all the evidence points to NO.

A couple weeks back I layed a 29 year old within 4 hours of meeting her.

The only difference is with younger teenage girls, they need attention/attract material more than the older women. Younger ones tend to flake like f u ck, which is annoying.



This is completely LEARNABLE.

ANYONE can pull this off. Although, the better looking you are, the more mistakes you can afford to make.



Meaning girls aren't very good at quantifying what causes attraction.

This has been field tested for over a decade now by hundreds of guys.

It has been proven to work over and over.

Why is this argument still going on?

Word

[Jay Rawd]

Originally Posted by rungrl

I NEVER tried to define how all guys should dress....I always said it was just my preference. Just like my preference is for guys with their own personality, not one they read on a forum.

Here's some news: if YOU act a certain way no matter WHO told you or didn't tell you to do it, it's YOUR personality. Learn sociology. Who you are is the outcome of your environment. You are always being yourself no matter what. The things you go through in life make you who you are. Reading something on the internet is something that you go through in life, and if you choose to follow it, it becomes part of you. It's really that simple. If you're tired of girls treating you like **** while you give them the world and decide to change it, guess what? It's something you go through in life, and therefore becomes a part of you. So this ASF stuff is already a part of us, and we are being ourselves following it. Nobody put a gun to our head and told us to act this way. We made the choice, so it IS us.

[sword chucks]

Reading websites like asf sent my confidence and regular people skills through the roof so I think it is a good thing to read those guides