N Gorge Marketing - implictions for CEE/NO2

[Penrice]

The gist of N-Gorge's marketing seem based on Author's belief that arginine should not be used with Creatine, as one counters the other.

I am about to start Omega Thunder and was planning on using it with Nitrous but am now uncertain.

I noticed in a recent thread, i cant now find, that Matpal and PU12 were both suggesting that CET would stack v nicely with an arginine based supp so would be particularly interested in either of your views please??

Plenty others seem to be combining CEE/NO2 products as well so all opinions welcome...

What's the concensus on this.... are **** wrong or is everybody wasting their money on a fundamentally flawed combo???

Thanks

[TheOMEGA]

Creatine with No2 is like

peanuet butter and jelly

ham and cheese

Simon and Garfunkil if you will

[Penrice]

LOL!

Egg n bacon where i'm from!

So is ****'s marketing (see below) a pile of doggy-doo or are we all not seeing the wood for the trees???


The Dream-Team?

The thought process behind teaming up CEE with NO2 potentiators is rock-solid, as increasing nitric oxide levels in the body, while ingesting creatine, would result in increased signaling for muscle cell absorption and even greater muscle growth and performance enhancement due to the synergy involved. However, up until now, the science used to put these physique-transforming wonders together has been haphazard at best. The result? Pissing both your money and your results down the drain!

So What's the Problem?

I'll give you the short version... lack of research! In their haste to be the first to market with creatine/NO2 combination supplements, most companies are simply throwing together creatine and arginine, perhaps along with 1 or 2 other nitric oxide precursors. Well, guess what my friends...research shows that arginine actually inhibits creatine absorption! Read it and weep fellas...


"Mitochondrial creatine transport was to a significant part dependent on the energetic state of mitochondria and was inhibited by arginine, and to some extent also by lysine, but not by other creatine analogues and related compounds."
And this statement holds true whether AAKG, arginine-malate, or even AEE (arginine ethyl ester) is used in the formula! "Hmmm, no wonder I wasn't getting any stronger or bigger on creatine/NO2 product 'X, Y, or Z... I wasn't even absorbing the freaking creatine!"

[G.D.]

favorite stacks right now, the results for me are the shiznit!! i usually take arginine before the cee...and i only take the arginine/no2 on days i work out, still gettin good results..

[Penrice]

Bump

Do Author's findings mean we're all getting it wrong??

[matpal]

Well, I really respect Author, and he is defianly one smart cookie, but honetly, the user feedback would seem to indicate that infact they are a very good 1-2 combo.

I'll see if I can find anything one way or the other, because I would really like to know for sure as well now that there is some doubt out there.

[Action Hero]

Isn't this the same type of thing as the NO2 doesn't work with caffeine argument which NO-Xplode, Superpump, hell even my own experiment seemed to prove wrong? We've seen creatine and NO2 work together.

-Hero

[PinkDaisy]

Originally Posted by Penrice

I am about to start Omega Thunder and was planning on using it with Nitrous but am now uncertain.

I'm using that exact stack right now and get incredible pumps. I'm also seeig increased vascularity all day long.

[grail]

Well, I have seen this statement made by **** as well, and naturally this caused reason for concern. According to them, the creatine absorption is inhibited, which means it doesn't necessarily mean it completely blocks out creatine, but it can reduce the absorption. So even though you guys are stacking the creatine with nitric oxide, it doesn't mean you will get zero results, you just might not be using your creatine to your full potential.

So, in order to get a non-biased answer for this, I emailed Avicena, a biotechnology company "focused on developing and commercializing novel, high-value products that improve the lives of patients through the regulation of critical cellular energy processes." Simply put they deal with neurological and neuromuscular diseases, such as Parkinson's and Creatine Transporter Defect.

I asked if the following statement was true: "Mitochondrial creatine transport was to a significant part dependent on the energetic state of mitochondria and was inhibited by arginine, and to some extent also by lysine, but not by other creatine analogues and related compounds."


This is what I got back:

Can you confirm that you are referring to transport of creatine across the
plasma membrane and not the putative transport across the mitochondrial
membrane?

Taking the question at face value for the plasma membrane transport:
Arginine via NO production produces cGMP that can decrease ion transport at
the plasma membrane. I have not heard about the lysine part. Any active
transport will/could/may be decreased if the mitochondrial activity
decreases. Nonetheless, the creatine analogues have all been shown to
inhibit Cr transport across the plasma membrane with varying IC50s.

Regards,
Belinda

Belinda Tsao Nivaggioli, Ph.D.
Chief Executive Officer


Not being too knowledgeable with that area, I am firing off an email to **** industries so they can tell me which mitochondrial transport they are referring to.

Also interesting to note is that she says that the creatine analogues have ALL been shown to inhibit creatine transport across the plasma membrane, which contradicts what **** industries has said, if this is referring to the transport of creatine across the plasma membrane.

I'll just have to wait and see how **** responds to my email.

[Penrice]

Originally Posted by grail

Well, I have seen this statement made by **** as well, and naturally this caused reason for concern. According to them, the creatine absorption is inhibited, which means it doesn't necessarily mean it completely blocks out creatine, but it can reduce the absorption. So even though you guys are stacking the creatine with nitric oxide, it doesn't mean you will get zero results, you just might not be using your creatine to your full potential.

So, in order to get a non-biased answer for this, I emailed Avicena, a biotechnology company "focused on developing and commercializing novel, high-value products that improve the lives of patients through the regulation of critical cellular energy processes." Simply put they deal with neurological and neuromuscular diseases, such as Parkinson's and Creatine Transporter Defect.

I asked if the following statement was true: "Mitochondrial creatine transport was to a significant part dependent on the energetic state of mitochondria and was inhibited by arginine, and to some extent also by lysine, but not by other creatine analogues and related compounds."


This is what I got back:

Can you confirm that you are referring to transport of creatine across the
plasma membrane and not the putative transport across the mitochondrial
membrane?

Taking the question at face value for the plasma membrane transport:
Arginine via NO production produces cGMP that can decrease ion transport at
the plasma membrane. I have not heard about the lysine part. Any active
transport will/could/may be decreased if the mitochondrial activity
decreases. Nonetheless, the creatine analogues have all been shown to
inhibit Cr transport across the plasma membrane with varying IC50s.

Regards,
Belinda

Belinda Tsao Nivaggioli, Ph.D.
Chief Executive Officer


Not being too knowledgeable with that area, I am firing off an email to **** industries so they can tell me which mitochondrial transport they are referring to.

Also interesting to note is that she says that the creatine analogues have ALL been shown to inhibit creatine transport across the plasma membrane, which contradicts what **** industries has said, if this is referring to the transport of creatine across the plasma membrane.

I'll just have to wait and see how **** responds to my email.

Great post Grail, rep for you... please keep us posted!!

I've actually got 2mths worth of Thunder and 1 of Nitrous... so for now I'm just using Thunder and will decide later whether to include Nitrous in mth 2.

For anyone interested, i'm it's my 9th day on Thunder and so far I've noted the following:

No noticable increase in pump/vascularity.
Modest improvement in focus.
Good improvement in energy (during workout).
Strength gains that i'm SO impressed with i'm hesitant to comment further on just yet.

[Pat Bateman]

bump