muhammeds marrige to aisha

herox · 05-09-2005, 02:45 PM

People continue to post messages over the net about mohammed getting married to a 9 year old. most of these people do not even know the first thing about the quran or hadiths yet they act as if they are on a level where they can confidently speak with authority about these subjects.

i would like to point out a few things for these people :

1. The way that years where measured in those days are different to the way we measure years to day for example today we calculate with the sun while they calculated with the moon cycles. so the years would not be as accurate as they are today.

2. There timespan was shorter becuase they lived shorter lives then we do today.

3. There was no higher education so people where having familiys at the ages of 12 years old +.

4. in the hadiths many ages are given about the age of aisha ranges from 9 to 12,14,15,19,21 years old. what some sites have done is take the first one which is 9 and say that it is the one that muslims belive. this is wrong becuase muslims read a varity of hadiths including the ones that give the other ages.

and also please take the time to read this :

Age of Aisha at time of marriage with Holy Prophet Muhammad

It is believed on the authority of some Hadith reports that the marriage ceremony (known as nikah, amounting to betrothal) of Aisha with the Holy Prophet Muhammad took place when she was six years of age, and that she joined the Holy Prophet as his wife three years later at the age of nine. We quote below from two such reports in Bukhari.

“It is reported from Aisha that she said: The Prophet entered into marriage with me when I was a girl of six … and at the time [of joining his household] I was a girl of nine years of age.”

“Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed [alone] for two years or so. He married Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consummated that marriage when she was nine years old.” [3]

As to the authenticity of these reports, it may be noted that the compilers of the books of Hadith did not apply the same stringent tests when accepting reports relating to historical matters as they did before accepting reports relating to the practical teachings and laws of Islam. The reason is that the former type of report was regarded as merely of academic interest while the latter type of report had a direct bearing on the practical duties of a Muslim and on what was allowed to them and what was prohibited. Thus the occurrence of reports such as the above about the marriage of Aisha in books of Hadith, even in Bukhari, is not necessarily a proof of their credibility.

Determination of the true age of Aisha
It appears that Maulana Muhammad Ali was the first Islamic scholar directly to challenge the notion that Aisha was aged six and nine, respectively, at the time of her nikah and consummation of marriage. This he did in, at least, the following writings: his English booklet Prophet of Islam, his larger English book Muhammad, the Prophet, and in the footnotes in his voluminous Urdu translation and commentary of Sahih Bukhari entitled Fadl-ul-Bari, these three writings being published in the 1920s and 1930s. In the booklet Prophet of Islam, which was later incorporated in 1948 as the first chapter of his book Living Thoughts of the Prophet Muhammad, he writes in a lengthy footnote as follows:

“A great misconception prevails as to the age at which Aisha was taken in marriage by the Prophet. Ibn Sa‘d has stated in the Tabaqat that when Abu Bakr [father of Aisha] was approached on behalf of the Holy Prophet, he replied that the girl had already been betrothed to Jubair, and that he would have to settle the matter first with him. This shows that Aisha must have been approaching majority at the time. Again, the Isaba, speaking of the Prophet’s daughter Fatima, says that she was born five years before the Call and was about five years older than Aisha. This shows that Aisha must have been about ten years at the time of her betrothal to the Prophet, and not six years as she is generally supposed to be. This is further borne out by the fact that Aisha herself is reported to have stated that when the chapter [of the Holy Quran] entitled The Moon, the fifty-fourth chapter, was revealed, she was a girl playing about and remembered certain verses then revealed. Now the fifty-fourth chapter was undoubtedly revealed before the sixth year of the Call. All these considerations point to but one conclusion, viz., that Aisha could not have been less than ten years of age at the time of her nikah, which was virtually only a betrothal. And there is one report in the Tabaqat that Aisha was nine years of age at the time of nikah. Again it is a fact admitted on all hands that the nikah of Aisha took place in the tenth year of the Call in the month of Shawwal, while there is also preponderance of evidence as to the consummation of her marriage taking place in the second year of Hijra in the same month, which shows that full five years had elapsed between the nikah and the consummation. Hence there is not the least doubt that Aisha was at least nine or ten years of age at the time of betrothal, and fourteen or fifteen years at the time of marriage.” [4] (Bolding is mine.)

To facilitate understanding dates of these events, please note that it was in the tenth year of the Call, i.e. the tenth year after the Holy Prophet Muhammad received his calling from God to his mission of prophethood, that his wife Khadija passed away, and the approach was made to Abu Bakr for the hand of his daughter Aisha. The hijra or emigration of the Holy Prophet to Madina took place three years later, and Aisha came to the household of the Holy Prophet in the second year after hijra. So if Aisha was born in the year of the Call, she would be ten years old at the time of the nikah and fifteen years old at the time of the consummation of the marriage.

Later research
Research subsequent to the time of Maulana Muhammad Ali has shown that she was older than this. An excellent short work presenting such evidence is the Urdu pamphlet Rukhsati kai waqt Sayyida Aisha Siddiqa ki umar (‘The age of Lady Aisha at the time of the start of her married life’) by Abu Tahir Irfani.[4a] Points 1 to 3 below have been brought to light in this pamphlet.

1. The famous classical historian of Islam, Ibn Jarir Tabari, wrote in his ‘History’:

“In the time before Islam, Abu Bakr married two women. The first was Fatila daughter of Abdul Uzza, from whom Abdullah and Asma were born. Then he married Umm Ruman, from whom Abdur Rahman and Aisha were born. These four were born before Islam.” [5]

Being born before Islam means being born before the Call.

2. The compiler of the famous Hadith collection Mishkat al-Masabih, Imam Wali-ud-Din Muhammad ibn Abdullah Al-Khatib, who died 700 years ago, has also written brief biographical notes on the narrators of Hadith reports. He writes under Asma, the older daughter of Abu Bakr:

“She was the sister of Aisha Siddiqa, wife of the Holy Prophet, and was ten years older than her. … In 73 A.H. … Asma died at the age of one hundred years.” [6]

This would make Asma 28 years of age in 1 A.H., the year of the Hijra, thus making Aisha 18 years old in 1 A.H. So Aisha would be 19 years old at the time of the consummation of her marriage, and 14 or 15 years old at the time of her nikah. It would place her year of birth at four or five years before the Call.

3. The same statement is made by the famous classical commentator of the Holy Quran, Ibn Kathir, in his book Al-bidayya wal-nihaya:

“Asma died in 73 A.H. at the age of one hundred years. She was ten years older than her sister Aisha.” [7]

Apart from these three evidences, which are presented in the Urdu pamphlet referred to above, we also note that the birth of Aisha being a little before the Call is consistent with the opening words of a statement by her which is recorded four times in Bukhari. Those words are as follows:

“Ever since I can remember (or understand things) my parents were following the religion of Islam.” [8]

This is tantamount to saying that she was born sometime before her parents accepted Islam but she can only remember them practising Islam. No doubt she and her parents knew well whether she was born before or after they accepted Islam, as their acceptance of Islam was such a landmark event in their life which took place just after the Holy Prophet received his mission from God. If she had been born after they accepted Islam it would make no sense for her to say that she always remembered them as following Islam. Only if she was born before they accepted Islam, would it make sense for her to say that she can only remember them being Muslims, as she was too young to remember things before their conversion. This is consistent with her being born before the Call, and being perhaps four or five years old at the time of the Call, which was also almost the time when her parents accepted Islam.

herox · 05-09-2005, 02:46 PM

continued from above......

Two further evidences cited by Maulana Muhammad Ali
In the footnotes of his Urdu translation and commentary of Sahih Bukhari, entitled Fadl-ul-Bari, Maulana Muhammad Ali had pointed out reports of two events which show that Aisha could not have been born later than the year of the Call. These are as follows.

1. The above mentioned statement by Aisha in Bukhari, about her earliest memory of her parents being that they were followers of Islam, begins with the following words in its version in Bukhari’s Kitab-ul-Kafalat. We quote this from the English translation of Bukhari by M. Muhsin Khan:

“Since I reached the age when I could remember things, I have seen my parents worshipping according to the right faith of Islam. Not a single day passed but Allah’s Apostle visited us both in the morning and in the evening. When the Muslims were persecuted, Abu Bakr set out for Ethiopia as an emigrant.” [9]

Commenting on this report, Maulana Muhammad Ali writes:

“This report sheds some light on the question of the age of Aisha. … The mention of the persecution of Muslims along with the emigration to Ethiopia clearly shows that this refers to the fifth or the sixth year of the Call. … At that time Aisha was of an age to discern things, and so her birth could not have been later than the first year of the Call.” [10]

Again, this would make her more than fourteen at the time of the consummation of her marriage.

2. There is a report in Sahih Bukhari as follows:

“On the day (of the battle) of Uhud when (some) people retreated and left the Prophet, I saw Aisha daughter of Abu Bakr and Umm Sulaim, with their robes tucked up so that the bangles around their ankles were visible hurrying with their water skins (in another narration it is said, ‘carrying the water skins on their backs’). Then they would pour the water in the mouths of the people, and return to fill the water skins again and came back again to pour water in the mouths of the people.” [11]

Maulana Muhammad Ali writes in a footnote under this report:

“It should also be noted that Aisha joined the Holy Prophet’s household only one year before the battle of Uhud. According to the common view she would be only ten years of age at this time, which is certainly not a suitable age for the work she did on this occasion. This also shows that she was not so young at this time.” [12]

If, as shown in the previous section above, Aisha was nineteen at the time of the consummation of her marriage, then she would be twenty years old at the time of the battle of Uhud. It may be added that on the earlier occasion of the battle of Badr when some Muslim youths tried, out of eagerness, to go along with the Muslim army to the field of battle, the Holy Prophet Muhammad sent them back on account of their young age (allowing only one such youngster, Umair ibn Abi Waqqas, to accompany his older brother the famous Companion Sa‘d ibn Abi Waqqas). It seems, therefore, highly unlikely that if Aisha was ten years old the Holy Prophet would have allowed her to accompany the army to the field of battle.

We conclude from all the evidence cited above that Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her) was nineteen years old when she joined the Holy Prophet as his wife in the year 2 A.H., the nikah or betrothal having taken place five years previously.

Aaron_01 · 05-09-2005, 05:32 PM

We've had like 90 threads on this. It's no big surprise.

Renegade Master · 05-09-2005, 06:55 PM

Didn't he marry her at 6, and just bone her at 9?

Either way he was a sick ****, from beheading 500 jews in one day to boneing 9 year old girls, he was ****ed in the head. Just look at the product of his dementia, Islam. Look how that turned out.

TranceNRG · 05-09-2005, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renegade Master

Either way he was a sick ****, from beheading 500 jews in one day to boneing 9 year old girls, he was ****ed in the head. Just look at the product of his dementia, Islam. Look how that turned out.

ya ok.

Purge · 05-09-2005, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renegade Master

Didn't he marry her at 6, and just bone her at 9?

Either way he was a sick ****, from beheading 500 jews in one day to boneing 9 year old girls, he was ****ed in the head. Just look at the product of his dementia, Islam. Look how that turned out.

Yeah, and Christianity has had a sparkling, flawless past, right?

Renegade Master · 05-09-2005, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purge

Yeah, and Christianity has had a sparkling, flawless past, right?

When compared to Islam it is.

Desahogo · 05-09-2005, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renegade Master

When compared to Islam it is.

for example? besudes the prophet's marriage to aisha?

Renegade Master · 05-09-2005, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desahogo

for example? besudes the prophet's marriage to aisha?

Just look at all the attrocitys commited by Islam, the state of Islam today... just take a look at any givin Islamic nation and see what Islam is in reality.

Then compare that to Christianity and what ever issues it has had in the past seem trivial.

Vegan · 05-09-2005, 07:39 PM

Let's see, there's the 300+ years of the Spanish Inquisition, the Salem Witch Trials of the late 1600's, and who can forget the Great Flood that destroyed almost all of humanity...

Renegade Master · 05-09-2005, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vegan

Let's see, there's the 300+ years of the Spanish Inquisition

More like 50, and that what killed few hundred people? Few thousand maybe if your going to be liberal about it.

Quote:

the Salem Witch Trials of the late 1600's

They were conducted by Protestants, not Christians.

Purge · 05-09-2005, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renegade Master

They were conducted by Protestants, not Christians.

Wow, I had no idea there was a difference. Thanks for the clarification!

Vegan · 05-09-2005, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renegade Master

More like 50, and that what killed few hundred people? Few thousand maybe if your going to be liberal about it.

They were conducted by Protestants, not Christians.

Nah, Spanish Inquistion was ~1478-1834, which is about 350 years...Anyway, the conservative numbers estimate 3,000-5,000 people killed.

Protestant = denomination of Christianity...

Oh, and who could forget about the crusades...

Heh, anyway, the point is that followers of your religion are far from perfect, just like some followers of Islam are far from perfect.

Renegade Master · 05-09-2005, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purge

Wow, I had no idea there was a difference. Thanks for the clarification!

There is a huge difference. Many of them a theological difference, but for all of them the fact that they simply pick and choose what teachings to follow.

Jesus created one chuch, they rejected that and choose to follow a church created by a man, a man who made it for his own self serving intrests. Their religion is flawed at the start due to that fact. Where Christians follow the church created by Jesus Christ himself.

Purge · 05-09-2005, 08:01 PM

You know something, Renegade--I'm just gonna stop arguing with you, because I know that you want me and the others who disagree with you to continue to bicker. I've come to realize over the years that certain religions thrive in places/forums where they are persecuted and shunned, which helps to explain the many outrageous and flame-baitish things you've said here. It 's just like Jerry Falwell when he suggested a few years ago that one of the TeleTubbies was gay; he didn't really believe that in his heart of hearts, but he said it because he knew it would create a backlash from the public.

Starsky · 05-09-2005, 08:22 PM

Unless the posting gets wierd, this thread will not be shut down.

Any thread justifying Mohammeds paedophilia is ok, while those criticizing it are deleted by anonymous mods. My scientology thread got deleted and whoever did it, still hasn't let me know who they are. It was a legit question, but apparently someone was too sensitive or uncomfortable. Newsflash: They are covering the Michael Jackson trial on major networks, and they dont censor it to appease Jackson supporters.

BTW, if someone is complaining to mods about any threads being critical of Islam, they can take it up their oversensitive ass. The forum is called "*Religion/Politics*".

Dave22reborn · 05-09-2005, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Starsky

Unless the posting gets wierd, this thread will not be shut down.

Any thread justifying Mohammeds paedophilia is ok, while those criticizing it are deleted by anonymous mods. My scientology thread got deleted and whoever did it, still hasn't let me know who they are. It was a legit question, but apparently someone was too sensitive or uncomfortable. Newsflash: They are covering the Michael Jackson trial on major networks, and they dont censor it to appease Jackson supporters.

BTW, if someone is complaining to mods about any threads being critical of Islam, they can take it up their oversensitive ass. The forum is called "*Religion/Politics*".

Damn that sucks that your thread was deleted, just got back from work, and was hoping to respond to it. Guess it was just to offensive.

I mean if it's offensive to call someone who's 250 pounds and 40 years old porking a 9 year old girl, who probably only weighs 75 pounds a disgusting pervert, then I'll just shut up then.

Or think about this, since she would be married to this sick ****, she's obligated to **** him whenever he desires, so this girl could be giving it up 2-3 times a day. But that's normal isn't it???

To look at little pre-teens and get a hard on is completely normal.

Starsky · 05-09-2005, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave22reborn

Damn that sucks that your thread was deleted, just got back from work, and was hoping to respond to it. Guess it was just to offensive.

I mean if it's offensive to call someone who's 250 pounds and 40 years old porking a 9 year old girl, who probably only weighs 75 pounds a disgusting pervert, then I'll just shut up then.

Or think about this, since she would be married to this sick ****, she's obligated to **** him whenever he desires, so this girl could be giving it up 2-3 times a day. But that's normal isn't it???

To look at little pre-teens and get a hard on is completely normal.

Careful, people who criticize Paedophile's actions can get banned.

Petey_G · 05-09-2005, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Starsky

Careful, people who criticize Paedophile's actions can get banned.

You know what your ****ing problem is Starsky??? You just not progressive enough to accept such tolerant and modern views ad pedophilia.
Culture is relative, your your bigot ass needs to learn to tolerate and accept 40 year old men ****ing 9 year old girls...

Its Bigots like you that keep the world from changing for the better....

/End sarcasm

DG

SYRIANKID · 05-09-2005, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renegade Master

from beheading 500 jews in one day

Moses (pbuh) killed thousands more Jews than that.

Plus that's what happens when a tribe of Jews allies themselves with polytheists in war against Muslims.

Renegade Master · 05-09-2005, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SYRIANKID

Moses (pbuh) killed thousands more Jews than that.

Plus that's what happens when a tribe of Jews allies themselves with polytheists in war against Muslims.

Where did Moses Behead 500 innocent jews in one day?

SYRIANKID · 05-09-2005, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renegade Master

Where did Moses Behead 500 innocent jews in one day?

500? Try 3,000 in one go, 24,000 in another sitting.

Renegade Master · 05-09-2005, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Nah, Spanish Inquistion was ~1478-1834, which is about 350 years...Anyway, the conservative numbers estimate 3,000-5,000 people killed.

Ok, thats a shame. But 3,000 - 5,000 people dieing over a span of 350 in the 15th - 19th century is hardly an event that stands out as a great attrocity.

Quote:

Protestant = denomination of Christianity

No, Protestant = preversion of Christianity.

A christian is one who follows Christ, Protestants rejected Christs church and created their own according to their own needs, they pick and choose what to belive/follow according to whats good for them.

Hell, Protestants have homosexuals and women as clergy. Their status as Christians was lost when they rejected Jesus's teachings and left the church.

Quote:

Oh, and who could forget about the crusades

The Crusades where the Christian nations comeing to the defence of the HOly Roman Empire who was being invaded by Muslim hords.

Had it not been for the Crusades the Holy Roman empire would have fell and Europe would have been conqured by Islam. You should thank God that the crusades happened.

Quote:

Heh, anyway, the point is that followers of your religion are far from perfect

True, no one is perfect.

Quote:

just like some followers of Islam are far from perfect.

Islam itself is far from perfect, it is a violent cult. One of blood, opression and brutalisation of anyone they can find.

Renegade Master · 05-09-2005, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SYRIANKID

500? Try 3,000 in one go, 24,000 in another sitting.

Again, where did Moses do these things?

SYRIANKID · 05-09-2005, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renegade Master

Again, where did Moses do these things?

The book attached in the begining of the Bible, I think Christians call it the Old Testament while Jews call it the Torah? You should read it, it has a lot of surprising info.

Try

Num 25:4,9

Exodus 32:21-28

Vegan · 05-09-2005, 09:47 PM

And the LORD said unto Moses, Take all the heads of the people, and hang them up before the LORD against the sun, that the fierce anger of the LORD may be turned away from Israel.

Num 25:5 And Moses said unto the judges of Israel, Slay ye every one his men that were joined unto Baalpeor.

Num 25:6 And, behold, one of the children of Israel came and brought unto his brethren a Midianitish woman in the sight of Moses, and in the sight of all the congregation of the children of Israel, who [were] weeping [before] the door of the tabernacle of the congregation.

Num 25:7 And when Phinehas, the son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron the priest, saw [it], he rose up from among the congregation, and took a javelin in his hand;

Num 25:8 And he went after the man of Israel into the tent, and thrust both of them through, the man of Israel, and the woman through her belly. So the plague was stayed from the children of Israel.

Num 25:9 And those that died in the plague were twenty and four thousand

Exo 32:21 And Moses said unto Aaron, What did this people unto thee, that thou hast brought so great a sin upon them?

Exo 32:22 And Aaron said, Let not the anger of my lord wax hot: thou knowest the people, that they are set on mischief.

Exo 32:23 For they said unto me, Make us gods, which shall go before us: for as for this Moses, the man that brought us up out of the land of Egypt, we wot not what is become of him.

Exo 32:24 And I said unto them, Whosoever hath any gold, let them break it off. So they gave it me: then I cast it into the fire, and there came out this calf.

Exo 32:25 And when Moses saw that the people were naked; (for Aaron had made them naked unto their shame among their enemies

Exo 32:26 Then Moses stood in the gate of the camp, and said, Who is on the LORD'S side? let him come unto me. And all the sons of Levi gathered themselves together unto him.

Exo 32:27 And he said unto them, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbour.

Exo 32:28 And the children of Levi did according to the word of Moses: and there fell of the people that day about three thousand men.

TranceNRG · 05-09-2005, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Starsky

Unless the posting gets wierd, this thread will not be shut down.

Any thread justifying Mohammeds paedophilia is ok, while those criticizing it are deleted by anonymous mods. My scientology thread got deleted and whoever did it, still hasn't let me know who they are. It was a legit question, but apparently someone was too sensitive or uncomfortable. Newsflash: They are covering the Michael Jackson trial on major networks, and they dont censor it to appease Jackson supporters.

BTW, if someone is complaining to mods about any threads being critical of Islam, they can take it up their oversensitive ass. The forum is called "*Religion/Politics*".

you can be sure it wasn't me.

I was enjoying that thread and all the baseless comments and emotional come backs.

TranceNRG · 05-09-2005, 09:49 PM

SK you missed out Starsky's thread

It was a great thread.
He and many modern citizens tried, but I had to take your place to show them the problems with their arguements

Renegade Master · 05-09-2005, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SYRIANKID

Num 25:4,9

[Numbers Num 25:4]And the LORD said unto Moses, Take all the heads of the people, and hang them up before the LORD against the sun, that the fierce anger of the LORD may be turned away from Israel.

So how is God telling Moses to fight idolotrys who attack and sacarfice and eat the Israelites the same as Moses beheading 500 innocent Jews?

[Numbers Num 25:9]And those that died in the plague were twenty and four thousand.

God created the plague, not Moses.

Quote:

Exodus 32:21-28

Again, fighting in a battle is not the same as beheading innocent unarmed Jews.

SYRIANKID · 05-09-2005, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vegan

And the LORD said unto Moses, Take all the heads of the people, and hang them up before the LORD against the sun

Hey Renegade Master, where'd you go all of a sudden?

It seems to me that Moses (pbuh) is taking off the heads of a few thousand Jews here himself.

Quote:

Num 25:5 And Moses said unto the judges of Israel, Slay ye every one his men that were joined unto Baalpeor.

Fascinating, people being killed for paganism!

Quote:

Num 25:8 And he went after the man of Israel into the tent, and thrust both of them through, the man of Israel, and the woman through her belly.

So the javelin was thrust through the stomachs of two people at once?

Quote:

Exo 32:27 And he said unto them, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbour.

Did I read that correctly?

Quote:

Exo 32:28 And the children of Levi did according to the word of Moses: and there fell of the people that day about three thousand men.

THREE THOUSAND JEWS SLAIN! Hey Renegade Master where'd you go, bro? I need help interpretting this business about the three thousand Jews getting butchered.