Chest, Chest, Chest!?!?!?

[collopy7]

Guys, I'm looking for help with my chest. I did a cycle with Green Mag, X Factor, Xtend, and not much change to my chest. I was working out 4 days per week, doing chest every third day.
I would do
flat bench 4x6
incline 3x6
decline 3x6
fly's on the machine 3x6

Along with a few others to hit tri's...etc.

Can someone give me a good plan to get my chest bigger and developed. To compare my chest, it looks like Tom Cruise's on Top Gun ( I hate to compare to that freak, but it's all I can think of). How many times per week, what excercises...etc..? Please help me get my chest built!!!

Thanks!

[SMC90]

no bench press? i would try some incline and decline flys too and maybe close and wide grip bench. on off days try some push ups too.

[Dave76]

1. How long have you been doing that chest program?
2. What were your starting weights for each exercise?
3. What weights are you using for each exercise now?

[SuicideGripMe]

Your chest aint some magical entity that needs to be hit with some crazy routine. Treat it the same as any other muscle, work it intensely, and eat right and enough to get big.

[salu]

i highly recommend inclined bench press on the barbell i u wanna put on mass the key is not dumbells or machine for pure mass lift heavy super heavy i mean 5-6 reps not 6-8 and use barbells bench press do some flat bench press dumbell bnch press is okay but flyes or for pecs that is it.

[In Flames]

stick to incline, flat and dips, that is all. or just pick one of those like incline bench for a couple of weeks trying to add weight to the bar, then switch to weighted dips for another 4-6 weeks and repeat, then to incline bench,etc. you don't need fancy routines, just progession in the weight your lifting.

[stracin]

Take TWO of those exercises, do them, and then on the third day, do the other two.

[SuicideGripMe]

Originally Posted by salu

i highly recommend inclined bench press on the barbell i u wanna put on mass the key is not dumbells or machine for pure mass lift heavy super heavy i mean 5-6 reps not 6-8 and use barbells bench press do some flat bench press dumbell bnch press is okay but flyes or for pecs that is it.

DB's dont put on mass? Thats um BULL. I agree machines are overused but DB's for presses allow you to get more ROM and use more stabilizer muscles. For chest, my shoulders have gotten messed up from wrestling and benching sucks. I only use DB's and dips for chest work now. My chest has been growing great. I hate benching but I do it to change things up. You shouldnt stick to one train of thought and get stuck in rut from it. Also, your grammar sucks.

[VikingMan]

Originally Posted by collopy7

I did a cycle with Green Mag, X Factor, Xtend, and not much change to my chest.

I'm curious how a suppliment cycle is supposed to have much of an impact on your chest? Muscle and body fat. Those are the factors that will have an impact on your chest. And the biggest factors that impact that, are diet and poundages moved.

[rashidiqbal]

eat meat drink apple juice daily and 4 day train in a week and 3 days rest and best of luck

[older-than-dirt]

Lift heavy. Throw in some forced reps with heavy weights...BUT....make sure your spotter is able first.

[JC-orginalbdass]

Muscle building=hypertrophy=more volume

Sounds like you've built up your strength. Now, try more reps. Try 4X8 bench, 3X10 dips, 4X8 incline DB bench, lots of sets/reps cable flies. Try 2 or 3 different types of cable flies/crossovers to finish out your workout.

Hit your chest every 5 or 6 days. Maybe alternate each workout between a power/strength workout and a high rep workout.

Also, It looks like your chest would be more defined if you cut some body fat.

[Andrew.Cook]

Originally Posted by VikingMan

I'm curious how a suppliment cycle is supposed to have much of an impact on your chest? Muscle and body fat. Those are the factors that will have an impact on your chest. And the biggest factors that impact that, are diet and poundages moved.

Thank you for saying that, Vik. Seriously, I knew I shouldn't poke my head in here. Frustration rising, anger clouding brain...

Gang, for the most part, the advice here has been junk. If you think you were right, you weren't. Vik knows he is right, he's safe. Man, I'm not even sure where to start!

1. Your decision to flush a bunch of money in supps is... bad. I'll leave it at that. You want more advice on this, ask. I'll be glad to explain why, otherwise I'll save my breath and advise you to just drop it.
2. Your exercise selection was pretty much spot on, and your volume looked reasonable enough. Of course, the ability to recover is an individual thing so perhaps this is too much, perhaps you could do more. For now let's assume that you can just stick to decline/incline/flyes with roughly the sets/reps you laid out. I would look at the flyes as a higher rep exercise and not worry about trying to move max tonnage there. Declines should be your bread and butter. Inclines should be secondary to this IMO. Inclines, depending on the angle are going to recruit your delts quite a bit. You can actually drop flat bench, unless you are gunning to be a powerlifter. So many people screw these up that I've given up trying to teach people everything that is right abot the flat bench.
3. You don't need to beat yourself into the ground every workout. Lift heavy, lift short and get out of the gym with gas in the tank. Forget all the crap that your gym buddies are telling you, that mythology is dead.
4. Don't lift fast, don't lift slow... lift at a rate that feels normal.
5. I'm not going to cover this for you, but do your homework on periodization. Without an understanding of this, nothing else I've said will matter.
6. As previously mentioned, probably 90% of your woes are the result of your diet. Most people know what healthy is, and choose to ignore it. I'm not going to teach you that you should eat your fruits and veggies and stay away from McDonalds. It's a given.

Knowledge is power, other people's misinformation is not. Knowing crap is useless. Make an effort to learn from credible sources.

[JC-orginalbdass]

Wow, Andrew. Strong bashing of everyone who was trying to help. I guess we should just defer to you at all times. Check my 3 month transformation. I do know about what I'm talking about. The bottom line is, the dude has to switch up something if he's been doing what he's doing without the desired results.

[:::JMANN:::]

Originally Posted by Andrew.Cook

Thank you for saying that, Vik. Seriously, I knew I shouldn't poke my head in here. Frustration rising, anger clouding brain...

Gang, for the most part, the advice here has been junk. If you think you were right, you weren't. Vik knows he is right, he's safe. Man, I'm not even sure where to start!

1. Your decision to flush a bunch of money in supps is... bad. I'll leave it at that. You want more advice on this, ask. I'll be glad to explain why, otherwise I'll save my breath and advise you to just drop it.
2. Your exercise selection was pretty much spot on, and your volume looked reasonable enough. Of course, the ability to recover is an individual thing so perhaps this is too much, perhaps you could do more. For now let's assume that you can just stick to decline/incline/flyes with roughly the sets/reps you laid out. I would look at the flyes as a higher rep exercise and not worry about trying to move max tonnage there. Declines should be your bread and butter. Inclines should be secondary to this IMO. Inclines, depending on the angle are going to recruit your delts quite a bit. You can actually drop flat bench, unless you are gunning to be a powerlifter. So many people screw these up that I've given up trying to teach people everything that is right abot the flat bench.
3. You don't need to beat yourself into the ground every workout. Lift heavy, lift short and get out of the gym with gas in the tank. Forget all the crap that your gym buddies are telling you, that mythology is dead.
4. Don't lift fast, don't lift slow... lift at a rate that feels normal.
5. I'm not going to cover this for you, but do your homework on periodization. Without an understanding of this, nothing else I've said will matter.
6. As previously mentioned, probably 90% of your woes are the result of your diet. Most people know what healthy is, and choose to ignore it. I'm not going to teach you that you should eat your fruits and veggies and stay away from McDonalds. It's a given.

Knowledge is power, other people's misinformation is not. Knowing crap is useless. Make an effort to learn from credible sources.

and that's how you lay the smack down!

[collopy7]

Sometimes I mixed it up, but the most common weight of my chest routine is was follows:
flat bench 4x6......185lbs first 2 sets of 6, then 205 second 2 sets,only getting maybe 4 or 5 up the last set
incline 3x6 using 65 lbs barbells
decline 3x6 185 lbs
fly's on the machine 3x6 150 lbs, up to 185 lbs

[stracin]

Originally Posted by collopy7

Sometimes I mixed it up, but the most common weight of my chest routine is was follows:
flat bench 4x6......185lbs first 2 sets of 6, then 205 second 2 sets,only getting maybe 4 or 5 up the last set
incline 3x6 using 65 lbs barbells
decline 3x6 185 lbs
fly's on the machine 3x6 150 lbs, up to 185 lbs

There shouldn't be a "common" weight. It should be increasing each workout, if not then increasing reps atleast. My best guess for you is to cut your volume by dropping two exercises for chest day and focusing on moving the weight up each workout.

Maybe go chest day 1: flat and Incline, Chest day 2: Decline and flies, and alternate the two...just and idea

BUT, you absolutely MUST increase something each workout. IE reps or weight.

[VikingMan]

Originally Posted by stracin

There shouldn't be a "common" weight. It should be increasing each workout, if not then increasing reps atleast. My best guess for you is to cut your volume by dropping two exercises for chest day and focusing on moving the weight up each workout.

Maybe go chest day 1: flat and Incline, Chest day 2: Decline and flies, and alternate the two...just and idea

BUT, you absolutely MUST increase something each workout. IE reps or weight.

Good post.

If the requirement does not change, neither will the result. Want better results? You need a better requirement. That can be done through more volume and more weight.

[Nightwolfer]

Originally Posted by salu

i highly recommend inclined bench press on the barbell i u wanna put on mass the key is not dumbells or machine for pure mass lift heavy super heavy i mean 5-6 reps not 6-8 and use barbells bench press do some flat bench press dumbell bnch press is okay but flyes or for pecs that is it.

6 reps is not gone be alot heavier than 8 , and if he is strong enough for hypherprohy training i would defenetly train on 6-8 rep range doing like 4 sets and focusing on every rep, Also remember to push your chest out with lsight arch remove your shoulders from movment.

[Andrew.Cook]

Originally Posted by JC-orginalbdass

Wow, Andrew. Strong bashing of everyone who was trying to help. I guess we should just defer to you at all times. Check my 3 month transformation. I do know about what I'm talking about. The bottom line is, the dude has to switch up something if he's been doing what he's doing without the desired results.

Not to be a dick, but allow me to dismantle your advice and point out where I think you went wrong. I applaud your transformation, truthfully. However, there is a difference between making a little progress and knowing your ****.

Originally Posted by JC-orginalbdass

Muscle building=hypertrophy=more volume

Does it? Would it surprise you to note that approximately 10% of my total chest sets go above the 4 rep range? Another 40% fall in the 2-3 reps and the rest is all heavy singles. Now, take a look at my pictures and tell me if my "hypertrophy" is ok. I get my volume in by other means, but the need for high reps and low weights is basically... well, it is one road, but maybe not the best one. The real point here is that it isn't "gospel" to throw schemes of sets and reps around. Truthfully, it isn't the set/rep values that matter, but rather the way you progress and how you measure that progression. If you aren't on top of this idea, then you simply aren't in a good place to offer quality advice.

Originally Posted by JC-orginalbdass

Sounds like you've built up your strength. Now, try more reps. Try 4X8 bench, 3X10 dips, 4X8 incline DB bench, lots of sets/reps cable flies. Try 2 or 3 different types of cable flies/crossovers to finish out your workout. .

See, this is what I'm talking about. Can you tell me why 3x10 and not 10x3? Can you tell me why 3x10 would be better than 1x30, or 30x1? The totals all balance, right? Why not 5x6? 6x5? Hell, why not 3x20? More=better? reps and sets mean very little if you can't dictate what proper recovery and progression would look like.

Originally Posted by JC-orginalbdass

Hit your chest every 5 or 6 days. Maybe alternate each workout between a power/strength workout and a high rep workout..

Why 5 or 6 days? What if his volume is low enough that he could work out every three? What if he needed extra recovery? See... one size won't fit all. In some way the best advice that anyone can give is to tell a person to experiment.

Originally Posted by JC-orginalbdass

Also, It looks like your chest would be more defined if you cut some body fat.

This... I'll agree with

[mjw8204]

The fact that a list of supplements was the first info the OP provided makes me want to jab a pen in my eye.

As for Andrew.Cook "bashing" everyone that was "trying to help", there's a difference between trying to help and giving solid advice. Good intentions are nice, but they really aren't helpful unless the advice given is solid. I would defer to Andrew or VikingMan before anyone else in this thread, or most others, for that matter.

[JC-orginalbdass]

Originally Posted by Andrew.Cook

See, this is what I'm talking about. Can you tell me why 3x10 and not 10x3? Can you tell me why 3x10 would be better than 1x30, or 30x1? The totals all balance, right? Why not 5x6? 6x5? Hell, why not 3x20? More=better? reps and sets mean very little if you can't dictate what proper recovery and progression would look like.

Personally, I think 3X10 is better than 10X3 simply because I believe that TUT is important, but in any case, my point was to have the OP try something different. I was just giving a specific example. What he was doing wasn't working, so I gave another idea to see how it works.

[Andrew.Cook]

Originally Posted by mjw8204

The fact that a list of supplements was the first info the OP provided makes me want to jab a pen in my eye.

As for Andrew.Cook "bashing" everyone that was "trying to help", there's a difference between trying to help and giving solid advice. Good intentions are nice, but they really aren't helpful unless the advice given is solid. I would defer to Andrew or VikingMan before anyone else in this thread, or most others, for that matter.

True enough... the road to hell is paved with good intentions

Wasn't really trying to bash anyone, but rather make the very clear distinction that this thread pretty much had a little of all the classic old wives tales (with the noted exception that nobody tried to get the guy to "bodybuilder bench").

Ever play the game "telephone?" This place is like that. One person gets a good idea, but never understands it. They pass that idea on, but they change something that was importatnt and now this third person has something "almost" right. So on and so on and then by the time one person gets a wild hair to post it is all about how 10x10 is the best program ever for blowing up teh gunz0rz!

Originally Posted by JC-orginalbdass

Personally, I think 3X10 is better than 10X3 simply because I believe that TUT is important, but in any case, my point was to have the OP try something different. I was just giving a specific example. What he was doing wasn't working, so I gave another idea to see how it works.

Is TUT important? Why? Because someone else said it was? I know we get this idea that if something doesn't work, then it is time to change up the program. This is a little like being told to paint a house and trying to do so with the handle. It isn't that the tool is broken, but rather maybe we need to go over how to use it. Frankly I thought the OP's program was laid out well, but probably lacked the details on how to make progress and what to do if progress stalls.

[Dave76]

Originally Posted by Andrew.Cook

Frankly I thought the OP's program was laid out well, but probably lacked the details on how to make progress and what to do if progress stalls.

Which is exactly why I asked the leading questions way back in post #3. I figured that either he was impatient and hadn't given the program time to work or he hadn't added any weight to the bar. Judging from the answer given, I'd say the main problem is that no weight has been added to the bar. You can't really expect a muscle to adapt if you don't give it something to adapt to.

*ducks in case AC disagrees*

[Andrew.Cook]

What is there to disagree about? It isn't just about adding weight, I mean, there has to be a systematic approach to it. I think people stall more often because they have no method. It is just like barreling head first into a wall over and over. Sure, the person is trying, they just don't understand how to accomplish their task.

[Dave76]

Originally Posted by Andrew.Cook

What is there to disagree about?

Nothing really. I never did get a real answer to my questions. I strongly suspect that there was never a real attempt to add weight. I'm making that assumption based on the "Sometimes I mixed it up, but the most common weight of my chest routine is was" comment.

Mixing it up but most commonly using the same weight??

To me, that implies little or no effort to add weight. If that's the case, then that's why the chest isn't growing. I think I'm agreeing with you, AC.

[Overload]

Originally Posted by Andrew.Cook

3. You don't need to beat yourself into the ground every workout. Lift heavy, lift short and get out of the gym with gas in the tank. Forget all the crap that your gym buddies are telling you, that mythology is dead.

Best one out of your list. Too many people brag about how they could hardly walk out of the gym or threw up doing such and such exercise. I leave just thinking to myself "that was a damn fine workout" and go about my day.

Train, don't annihilate!

[Andrew.Cook]

Originally Posted by Overload

Best one out of your list. Too many people brag about how they could hardly walk out of the gym or threw up doing such and such exercise. I leave just thinking to myself "that was a damn fine workout" and go about my day.

Train, don't annihilate!

And look where it got you! My god, you are invisible!

Seriously, the idea that beating yourself into a near girlishly sobbing state is a good workout is flat out retarded. Put in hard work and you will be sore enough. I always get very suspicious when people claim that they don't get sore from lifting low reps and heavy weights.

[Dr Clay]

Originally Posted by stracin

Take TWO of those exercises, do them, and then on the third day, do the other two.

Great advice!!

[:::JMANN:::]

Originally Posted by Andrew.Cook

Not to be a dick, but allow me to dismantle your advice and point out where I think you went wrong. I applaud your transformation, truthfully. However, there is a difference between making a little progress and knowing your ****.
Does it? Would it surprise you to note that approximately 10% of my total chest sets go above the 4 rep range? Another 40% fall in the 2-3 reps and the rest is all heavy singles. Now, take a look at my pictures and tell me if my "hypertrophy" is ok. I get my volume in by other means, but the need for high reps and low weights is basically... well, it is one road, but maybe not the best one. The real point here is that it isn't "gospel" to throw schemes of sets and reps around. Truthfully, it isn't the set/rep values that matter, but rather the way you progress and how you measure that progression. If you aren't on top of this idea, then you simply aren't in a good place to offer quality advice.


See, this is what I'm talking about. Can you tell me why 3x10 and not 10x3? Can you tell me why 3x10 would be better than 1x30, or 30x1? The totals all balance, right? Why not 5x6? 6x5? Hell, why not 3x20? More=better? reps and sets mean very little if you can't dictate what proper recovery and progression would look like.


Why 5 or 6 days? What if his volume is low enough that he could work out every three? What if he needed extra recovery? See... one size won't fit all. In some way the best advice that anyone can give is to tell a person to experiment.



This... I'll agree with

and again!!!

a little constructive criticism and good advice is not bashing. atleast not looking at it objectively.