First Post, Progress, and now a Dilemma. *LONG READ*

[kaeyo]

Dear BodyBuilding.Com gents and ladies,
(I couldn't think of another creative way to start the post )

First and foremost, I would like to let ya guys know that this site has almost all the information anyone needs, and I spend almost 90% of my free time reading the threads on here. I've been around for a while, but I've finally decided to make an account, and participate in the daily talk and learning expierence here; and also to ask a question ( I rarely do this, as most questions can be answered with the vast amount of information on here! ).

This will be a long post, so sorry in advance for that!

Heres a quick cliff note basically about what my question is going to be, the first half is just intro and my workout as to date;
WHAT TO DO? I am in an intersection right now:
Bulk or Cut?
Hows the new workout?
Suggestions? Comments?
*Pics Included*

A little Introduction
I am 19 years of age, male, single, looking for.....
Just kidding!
So I am 19, Male, and a natural Endomorph.
Will be turning 20 in January 11th, so be sure to send me some ON Milk Chocolate or Chocolate Mint Protein Shakes
I grew up being real chubby and fat, most likely due to my eating habits and lack of exercise. My non-existent metabolism and being chinese ( love chinese food!) did not help either.

During the last 2 years of high school, I went on a diet, limiting myself solely to healthy foods, a nice hefty caloric deficit, ran 7 days a week, and lifted like any un-educated high-schooler does; the wrong way. Despite that, I lost about 35ish lbs in the span of 3-4 months, and looked skinny-fat'ish, due to probably still having a hefty body fat percentage. But I looked better than ever, and my confidence soared. I then began letting off; Eating normal ( meaning un-healthy and a lot ), partying ( I was into E and drinking a lot. ).

So lets fast forward to June 5th, 2007, about 2.8 mounths ago, I decided to work out again. This time, my motivation was to look good, but to test myself to see if I could see this through to a nice physique; ideal being "medium" and "lean". Like those models ya see on the beater and a-shirt packages, only with a little bit more muscle.

My Statistics as of now
19
160 lbs
5'9
~11% BF
Up til now, I have lost about 38 lbs. Going from 198 to 160.
Two weeks into my diet, I had a trainer at the gym test my body fat with his calipers, he does my bicep, tricep, abdominals, and upper back.
I was at 22% bf.
I trained hard every week, with a cycle of Hydroxycut Hardcore in the first month, and then having a month off, and just now finishing off the third month ( so 2 in total ). I have to say, I dont see much of a diff with it.
I lost a steady 1% bf a week.
With the same trainer testing it, same method.
3 Weeks ago I was at 13%.
I have not been tested as of that date, so I am assuming I am around 11.5 right now, but I have heard it gets harder the leaner you get, so I might be wrong!

As a Side Note, the past 2 Weeks seem to be real depressing. I just read up on it, it might be the low carb; but I seem to have lost a lot of motivation, seem to be lazy all the time, and just in general feel depressed, hence the little push for me to post here.

Supplements
Ive been taking CLA + GNC's Mega Man Religeously.
ON Milk Chocolate Protein SHake ( MMM )
Although I started with Nitro-Tech.

The Workouts & Diet
Anyway, my workout routine consisted of AM Fasted Cardio first thing in the morning, followed by a lifting session in the evening. The details are below; but, the first 4 weeks, I ran inside on the treadmill for 20 minutes, the two after that I ran outside for 25 mins, and the balance of the time I have been doing HIIT.
I do the fasted cardio 7 days a week.
I lift using Chest / Tri , Shoulder / Bi, Legs / Back split 6 days a week; using 3-4 sets of 8 repititions.
Despite losing a lot of size ( or seeming to )
I have gained quite a bit of strengh.
(ex. Incline DB Bench went from 35 - now 60.
DB Push Press went from 30s - now 55. And other lifts have increased to a similar extent.)

Diet wise, I really just try to use common sense, I most likely lack a lot of macros, but that is one of the reasons im posting, as I am redoing my whole regiment.

Morning : Fasted Cardio followed by 1 Scoop ON Protein Shake

1.5 Hours Later ( Breakfast ) : 5 Eggs = 2 Yolks + 3 Whites.

3 Hrs Later ( Lunch ) : Chicken ( the grilled pre cooked ones from Albertsons ) in a Mission Low Carb Tortilla Wrap + a little bit of cheese, sometimes tomatoes, and a lot of Tabasco sauce.
2 Hrs Later: Weight Training Session

1 Hr Later ( PWO ): 2 Scoops ON Protein Shake + Banana

1.5 Hrs Later ( Dinner ) : Same as Lunch.

Before Bed ( 3 hrs later ) : 4 hard boiled egg whites + ~1-2 tbs. Natural PB.

*As a side note, I have some apples or peaches here and there, in between meals or sometimes with meals Ill grab a finger of some Natural PB, and I might cheat with a Mocha Light Frap from starbucks sometimes. No cheat meals to date.

And there ya have it, what I have been doing for the past 2.8 months, I know it lacks a lot of nutritional value, but thats why im revamping it now!

SO NOW THE QUESTION!
Haha again I am sorry for the long read!
Like I said, I am down to about 11% bf, but I feel as though I have turned "skinny-fat" again, my abs seemed to be coming through, but I have lost a lot of size, and I still am not happy.
I'll tell you now, I cannot wait to bulk.
Not because I want to eat junk, but I just simply want to eat more, and do the "bulk" programs, and be able to run less and workout less ( meaning less days a week, my intensity will only increase!)

So now, I really hope you guys could give me feedback on what I have decide to do now, and what I should do.

I have just ordered some Creatine Mono from Higher Power.
I have decided to start cycling it, although I am afraid it will just make me look "soft" and take away what definition I have.
Although my hope is it will help me psycologically look bigger ( haha ) and increase my lifts to retain as much muscle as possible, if not build some.

I have decided to Start doing Rippletoe's Workout, in the evening ( Mon,Wed,Fri ) with moderate cardio in the morning, and HIIT in the morning Tues,Thurs,Sat. With Sunday being COMPLETELY off.

Diet wise will look something like this on WORKOUT DAYS:
Morning : Cardio + 1 Scoop Protein After.

1.5 Hrs Later : 5 Eggs ( 3 of it being whites ) + 2 Slices of Whole Grain Bread

3 Hrs Later : Chicken + 1 Slice of Whole Grain Bread with 1 tbsp. PB Spread on it.

2 Hrs Later : WORKOUT

1 Hr Later : PWO Shake ( 2 Scoops Protein, 5g Creatine, Banana )

1.5 Hrs Later : Chicken + Brown Rice and Veggies

Before Bed : Same as before, or I might get the Casein Shake + PB.

On Non-Workout days ( Just HIIT in the morning )
I will do sort of a carb cycle type thing, and eat mainly protein + healthy fat, like my previous diet.

What do you guys think that will accomplish? I have not calculated the calories, although I think it still is in deficit, at least on Non-Workout days.
I HAVE to get SOME results from it right?
Will the creatine make me look better or worse?
Will it be cut or Bulk? What do you guys suggest me do? Any input on which direction to go is appreciated, as that is my main delimma right now. WHAT TO DO?

So there you have it folks, I appologize for the long post, but it has come to an end! And heres the pics.

p.s.
I almost NEVER take pictures and post them on the internet, as I am real self conscious, but this is a bodybuilding site, so I figure Ill do it, and without all those little angle pics like myspace. I just had my sis take a round, so please dont mind it! Haha.

[phantumx]

at 11% you should go rippetoe and bulk up, and even if the creatine takes off some definition, you'll get it back but bigger.

[blueguitar322]

Dude, you're not "skinny fat" - you're not even really skinny by any non-bodybuilding standard. You're just lean...average (non-BB) musclarity, and lean. Congrats on getting here from 23%! That's a pretty awesome achievement.

You're basically at a win-win crossroads. You're at a point where you can either continue cutting another 3-4% BF or start bulking, cause you're low enough BF to not add too much fat. And you're young enough that hormones will work for you, regardless of what you try to accomplish.

If you read the Rippetoe FAQ (awesome, btw) then you'll realize that - like every other strength-building program - it's difficult to get everything out of it that you want while on a calorie deficit. Will you go up? Initially, yeah...but eventually you'll want to eat clean at a calorie surplus.

There is a third option, since you're still young and relatively new to lifting: eat at maintenence, but lift hard. It's very possible that you'll continue to see small reductions in BF%, yet add more mass than on a true caloric deficit.

I'm guessing that most guys here will take one look at your pics and go "dude, you're small, go lift FTW" or something. Realize that some guys here have true bodybuilder-sized goals, and they'll give advice through that perspective. If your goal is more "Abercrombie" (derided around here, but I don't see any shame in that...it's what I'm going to achieve eventually) then you'll have to keep that in mind.

So, based on my inuitive guess that you'd really like lower body fat (why else would you want to start a Rippetoe bulk on caloric deficit with frequent HIIT? why would you call yourself skinny fat at 11%?), I'd suggest that you keep cutting and drop down to 8%/visible six-pack before you start bulking.

Here's one benefit to that approach that nobody mentions: as an endo, if you get to 8%, you'll have convinced yourself that, yes, you CAN achieve a six-pack. You'll know that, even if you lose it while bulking, that you can always get it back with hard work and some time. This will allow you to really put 100% into bulking, without worrying about lots of cardio or calorie deficits or whatever. I think that, mentally, you'll be more confident that you'll achieve the results you want...and confidence is much more important that most of us give it credit for.

But again...you're in an ideal spot. You can do just about anything successfully. It's just what you want to do first. Hope this helps,

Dave

[kaeyo]

Originally Posted by blueguitar322

Dude, you're not "skinny fat" - you're not even really skinny by any non-bodybuilding standard. You're just lean...average (non-BB) musclarity, and lean. Congrats on getting here from 23%! That's a pretty awesome achievement.

You're basically at a win-win crossroads. You're at a point where you can either continue cutting another 3-4% BF or start bulking, cause you're low enough BF to not add too much fat. And you're young enough that hormones will work for you, regardless of what you try to accomplish.

If you read the Rippetoe FAQ (awesome, btw) then you'll realize that - like every other strength-building program - it's difficult to get everything out of it that you want while on a calorie deficit. Will you go up? Initially, yeah...but eventually you'll want to eat clean at a calorie surplus.

There is a third option, since you're still young and relatively new to lifting: eat at maintenence, but lift hard. It's very possible that you'll continue to see small reductions in BF%, yet add more mass than on a true caloric deficit.

I'm guessing that most guys here will take one look at your pics and go "dude, you're small, go lift FTW" or something. Realize that some guys here have true bodybuilder-sized goals, and they'll give advice through that perspective. If your goal is more "Abercrombie" (derided around here, but I don't see any shame in that...it's what I'm going to achieve eventually) then you'll have to keep that in mind.

So, based on my inuitive guess that you'd really like lower body fat (why else would you want to start a Rippetoe bulk on caloric deficit with frequent HIIT? why would you call yourself skinny fat at 11%?), I'd suggest that you keep cutting and drop down to 8%/visible six-pack before you start bulking.

Here's one benefit to that approach that nobody mentions: as an endo, if you get to 8%, you'll have convinced yourself that, yes, you CAN achieve a six-pack. You'll know that, even if you lose it while bulking, that you can always get it back with hard work and some time. This will allow you to really put 100% into bulking, without worrying about lots of cardio or calorie deficits or whatever. I think that, mentally, you'll be more confident that you'll achieve the results you want...and confidence is much more important that most of us give it credit for.

But again...you're in an ideal spot. You can do just about anything successfully. It's just what you want to do first. Hope this helps,

Dave

Thanks for the input bro.
Haha I want to be a lot bigger than the "abercrombie look".
Your completely right about the 6 pack and feeling that "I can do it"
I guess endo's do think alike.

But I dont think I will ever have a 6 pack. It seems like I have loose skin, not a ton compared to the weight transformation individuals, but still enough to cover up the abs I have

I think the new diet I posted above is a little higher in calories, higher in complex carbs, but still a deficit.
The creatine also probably would help me feel less "small", if it doesnt make me soft!

Maybe Ill cycle the creatine, and do that above diet, ill still trim a little Bf, while also making my metabolism work a little harder then its been use to for these past 3ish months.

If all goes bad, I can cut my calories back down in 2 weeks and jump start the fat burning.

Haha I kind of just said that out while typing. Bulking seems so appealing. Just the idea of not ever being able to see my six pack, and having even larger gyno is daunting. haha.

[blueguitar322]

Originally Posted by kaeyo

But I dont think I will ever have a 6 pack. It seems like I have loose skin, not a ton compared to the weight transformation individuals, but still enough to cover up the abs I have
...

Just the idea of not ever being able to see my six pack, and having even larger gyno is daunting. haha.

Maybe other eyes are more discerning than mine...but (1) I didn't see anything close to loose skin. You're at 11.5% BF. Very VERY few people will see abs at 11.5%. To get them to really pop like those underwear models or whatever, you're probably talking 7-8%. That's quite a bit difference - ~4% BF. AND, even if you did have a bit of loose skin at 7%, you're so young that odds are your skin will tighten with time. (2) Gyno? What gyno? You mentioned that and I had to go back and look at the gyno pic you posted. Maybe a little. Very little. I'd probably never have noticed on my own.

My guess? Like all of us, your mind is inventing this to be worried about. You're subconsciously giving yourself an "excuse" for failure.

And as I said...it happens to all of us. Every other day, I look at the mirror and second-guess every single thing I've done. But looking at pics and measurements I've accrued over 8.5 months, I know that's not at all the case. And I'm sure that when I get down to 11%, I'll need someone there to reassure me the same things I'm telling you ;-)

So - chin up. Don't quit now. If you can't achieve six-pack abs, with the condition you're in, then it's utterly hopeless for 95% of the rest of us.

Dave

[pimpalot805]

You barely have any core muscles it looks like, the lower portion is good, but even at 7-8%; hmm i dunno.

Abs are muscles too, they need to be built.

It looks like you're fit but you're PE teachers growing up didn't make you do sit-ups.

I could be wrong, because you're not flexing, but that is just from first glance.

I'm only talking about your core is because; if you have the stomach; it takes the attention away from everything else.

I'd train it hard, and once you train it hard.. go harder!

But you're deffinately going to get there; i can tell by the look in your eyes! haha.

Great job so far, and great job for the hard work to come.

[kaeyo]

Just came back from my Morning HIIT....
I still don't know if I should increase my cals and do rippletoes or not?

How do you guys feel about the new workout regiment? And taking the creatine?

Or should I stick to my old one and take creatine?