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Old 08-23-2007, 01:12 PM   #1
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Study finds that Martian soil may contain life

Just saw this on cnn.com:

Quote:
Study: Martian soil may contain life

LONDON, England (Reuters) -- The soil on Mars may contain microbial life, according to a new interpretation of data first collected more than 30 years ago.

The search for life on Mars appeared to hit a dead end in 1976 when Viking landers touched down on the red planet and failed to detect biological activity.

But Joop Houtkooper of the University of Giessen, Germany, said on Friday the spacecraft may in fact have found signs of a weird life form based on hydrogen peroxide on the subfreezing, arid Martian surface.

His analysis of one of the experiments carried out by the Viking spacecraft suggests that 0.1 percent of the Martian soil could be of biological origin.

That is roughly comparable to biomass levels found in some Antarctic permafrost, home to a range of hardy bacteria and lichen.

"It is interesting because one part per thousand is not a small amount," Houtkooper said in a telephone interview.

"We will have to find confirmatory evidence and see what kind of microbes these are and whether they are related to terrestrial microbes. It is a possibility that life has been transported from Earth to Mars or vice versa a long time ago."

Speculation about such interplanetary seeding was fueled a decade ago when researchers said an ancient meteorite found in Antarctica contained evidence of fossil life on Mars. Doubt has since been cast on that finding.

Houtkooper is presenting his research to the European Planetary Science Congress in Potsdam, Germany.

While most scientists think our next-door neighbor in the solar system is lifeless, the discovery of microbes on Earth that can exist in environments previously thought too hostile has fueled debate over extraterrestrial life.

Houtkooper believes Mars could be home to just such "extremophiles" -- in this case, microbes whose cells are filled with a mixture of hydrogen peroxide and water, providing them with natural anti-freeze.

They would be quite capable of surviving a harsh Martian climate where temperatures rarely rise above freezing and can fall to minus 150 degrees Celsius.

Houtkooper believes their presence would account for unexplained rises in oxygen and carbon dioxide when NASA's Viking landers incubated Martian soil. He bases his calculation of the biomass of Martian soil on the assumption that these gases were produced during the breakdown of organic material.

Scientists hope to gather further evidence on whether or not Mars ever supported life when NASA's next-generation robotic spacecraft, the Phoenix Mars Lander, reaches the planet in May 2008 and probes the soil near its northern pole.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/space/0...eut/index.html

We aren't sure but at least we know that it can't be ruled out. Finding life on Mars would be a truly incredible achievement in science.
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Old 08-23-2007, 01:19 PM   #2
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Awesome.

When you consider that natural selection applies at the molecular level life should be the rule in any place with enough chemical complexity.
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Old 08-23-2007, 01:25 PM   #3
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It would certainly be very exciting, though I'd much rather we put more time and money into researching Europa and Gliese 581c. It's about time we send a probe of some kind to Europa as I think life is much more likely there than on mars.
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Old 08-23-2007, 04:18 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diffusion View Post
It would certainly be very exciting, though I'd much rather we put more time and money into researching Europa and Gliese 581c. It's about time we send a probe of some kind to Europa as I think life is much more likely there than on mars.
Agreed.

And isn't another one of the Galilean moons supposed to have an ocean of water under it's surface too?

I know Io is a volcanic and Europa is covered in ice but i;m sure i read somewhere that either Ganymede or Calisto is covered in ice too.

As for Gliese 581c i think we'll have to pick up the pace of our technological advancement if we want to do any exploring in that solar system any time soon.

20 ly is not exactly walking distance.
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Old 08-23-2007, 08:38 PM   #5
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Claim of Martian Life Called 'Bogus'

Another viewpoint.

http://www.livescience.com/space/new...mars_life.html

Claim of Martian Life Called 'Bogus'


Martian soil analyzed 30 years ago by NASA's Viking landers might contain life, according to a controversial new study that one scientist called "bogus."

The dry, freezing Martian surface could be home to microbes whose cells are filled with a mixture of hydrogen peroxide and water, said Joop Houtkooper of the University of Giessen, Germany. But other scientists are skeptical of his results, which is the latest in a long series of contentious claims about what the Viking landers might or could have found.

Houtkooper reanalyzed data from the Gas Exchange (GEx) experiment carried out by the robotic landers in the 1970s and speculates the martian soil contained detectable amounts of life.

"It comes out to a little more than one part per thousand by weight, comparable to what is found in some permafrost in Antarctica," Houtkooper said.

Norman Pace, a microbiologist at the University of Colorado, is skeptical of the new claims. "It sounds bogus to me," Pace told SPACE.com. "I don't consider the chemical results to be particularly credible in light of the hash conditions that Mars offers."

The findings were presented by Houtkooper at the European Planetary Science Congress in Potsdam, Germany this week and are detailed in a recent issue of the International Journal of Astrobiology.

Alien chemistry

The GEx experiment detected rises in oxygen and carbon dioxide gas in soil samples collected on the martian surface.

"If we assume these gases were produced during the breakdown of organic material together with hydrogen peroxide solution, we can calculate the masses needed to produce the volume of gas measured," Houtkooper explained.

Houtkooper and his colleague Dirk Schulze-Makuch from Washington State University speculate that an organism based on hydrogen peroxide and water could survive the harsh martian climate, in which temperatures rarely rise above freezing and can reach -238 degrees Fahrenheit (-150 degrees Celsius) at the poles. The hydrogen peroxide would act like antifreeze for the cell, preventing its insides from crystallizing due to the cold.

Hydrogen peroxide-water solutions also tend to attract water, so the alien organisms could scavenge water molecules from the Martian atmosphere, the thinking goes. However, if such creatures were exposed to too much water or atmospheres with high humidity, they could theoretically die through over-hydration.

The researchers think this could account for the anomalous GEx results. The experiment exposed samples to water vapor which might have killed any hydrogen peroxide-water microbes died. The resulting breakdown of their cells would release oxygen and their organic compounds would react with the hydrogen peroxide to release carbon dioxide, water vapor and traces of nitrogen.

Houtkooper thinks the microbes could be detected by NASA's Phoenix lander, which launched on Aug. 4 and will arrive at Mars next May.

While rare, terrestrial organisms are known to use hydrogen-peroxide. The bombardier beetle, Brachinus Crepitans, uses a 25 percent solution of hydrogen peroxide to shoot steam into the face of pursuing predators.

No one suspects there are any beetles on Mars. But most experts have yet to rule out the possibility of microbial life.

"There does not appear to be any basic reason why hydrogen peroxide could not be used by living systems," Houtkooper said. "While organisms on Earth have found it advantageous to include salt in their intracellular fluids, hydrogen peroxide may have been more suitable for organisms adapting to the cold, dry environment of Mars."

Not likely

But Pace, the University of Colorado microbiologist, thinks there is one very important reason why hydrogen peroxide life is unlikely. "Hydrogen peroxide inside cells is deadly in terrestrial kinds of cells," Pace said. "In fact, that's one way that our cells combat bacteria, by producing hydrogen peroxide locally."

For Pace and many other scientists, the definitive experiment performed by the Viking landers was the gas chromatography mass spectrometry (GC-MS) test, which was capable of identifying substances by their chemical makeup. That test failed to turn up evidence of organic compounds. "That's the interesting experiment. Everything else can be explained chemically," Pace said.

Some scientists have speculated the oxygen results from the GEx test came from peroxide-containing iron in the martian soil.
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Old 08-23-2007, 08:46 PM   #6
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Maybe we'll see when the new probe reached Mars.
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Old 08-23-2007, 08:55 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ballsoftitanium View Post
Agreed.

And isn't another one of the Galilean moons supposed to have an ocean of water under it's surface too?

I know Io is a volcanic and Europa is covered in ice but i;m sure i read somewhere that either Ganymede or Calisto is covered in ice too.

As for Gliese 581c i think we'll have to pick up the pace of our technological advancement if we want to do any exploring in that solar system any time soon.

20 ly is not exactly walking distance.
Actually both Callisto and Ganymede are thought to contain liquid water and ice underneath their surface, but Europa is a much better target since the oceans are more vast and closer to it's surface.
Oh, and for Gliese 581c i wasn't talking about actually sending a probe there, at least not for a few decades or so. But it should definately be subject to intense research and observation.
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Old 08-23-2007, 09:02 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diffusion View Post
It would certainly be very exciting, though I'd much rather we put more time and money into researching Europa and Gliese 581c. It's about time we send a probe of some kind to Europa as I think life is much more likely there than on mars.
eurpoe???? europeans are there you dope!!! omg, havent u ever heard of france or england??? theyre all over and yes they are alive....wow that is so dumb
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Old 08-23-2007, 09:20 PM   #9
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It's interesting. Microbial life has always been a physiologically trumping life form, here on Earth they can survive in places to us extermely uninhabitable. I'm not sure if they're on Mars on not but I could assume it's possible.
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Old 08-24-2007, 02:06 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fidelis View Post
Just saw this on cnn.com:


http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/space/0...eut/index.html

We aren't sure but at least we know that it can't be ruled out. Finding life on Mars would be a truly incredible achievement in science.
Can you explain why it would be a truly incredible achievement in science? I don't understand how that logically follows. It seems more like an achievement than a discovery.
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Old 08-24-2007, 05:44 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Persecuted View Post
Can you explain why it would be a truly incredible achievement in science? I don't understand how that logically follows. It seems more like an achievement than a discovery.
You don't agree that sending probes to Mars, landing them on the surface, collecting soil samples, and analyzing them and finding life doesn't represent an achievement in science?
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Old 08-24-2007, 07:34 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by sosmart View Post
eurpoe???? europeans are there you dope!!! omg, havent u ever heard of france or england??? theyre all over and yes they are alive....wow that is so dumb
Wow strong misunderstanding and lack of knowledge. Europa is one of Jupiters moons.
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Old 08-24-2007, 08:04 AM   #13
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Exclamation cool.

cool.
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Old 08-24-2007, 08:05 AM   #14
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Quote:
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Wow strong misunderstanding and lack of knowledge. Europa is one of Jupiters moons.
and here he calls himself "sosmart". lol.
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Old 08-24-2007, 08:09 AM   #15
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Old 08-24-2007, 08:11 AM   #16
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Quote:
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Would you trust a guy named Joot Houtkooper??
So a German with a German name must be stupid.
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Old 08-24-2007, 09:01 AM   #17
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user1245464 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)user1245464 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)user1245464 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)user1245464 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)user1245464 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)user1245464 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)user1245464 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)user1245464 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)user1245464 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)user1245464 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)user1245464 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)
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Originally Posted by devire1 View Post
and here he calls himself "sosmart". lol.
He even spelled "impeach" wrong.
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Old 08-24-2007, 10:25 AM   #18
Fidelis
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Originally Posted by catmando View Post
Would you trust a guy named Joot Houtkooper??
Would you trust a guy named George?

boom shaka laka
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Old 08-24-2007, 10:33 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Fidelis View Post
Would you trust a guy named George?

boom shaka laka
What about a guy named Dick?
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Old 08-24-2007, 01:12 PM   #20
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bumping because iamGigantor reposted
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Old 08-24-2007, 01:48 PM   #21
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Thumbs down

Repost, negged.
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Old 08-24-2007, 01:56 PM   #22
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Repost, negged.
negged
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