What about God? Where does he get his morals?

[JAGERBOY]

So Christians like to ask atheists where they get their morals from. They say "why aren't you out murdering and raping if you think you have nothing to answer to?". They seem to think that since we don't follow a book, or think that there is a heaven or hell or a god to answer to, that we should just be out committing crimes and killing people. So basically, we have no one to answer to, and because of that, we have no fear of any real consequences.

So....what about God? Who does he have to answer to? Why would an eternal God necessarily be all loving/good? He has NO ONE to answer to. So if he gets bored with the all loving thing, he could just, oh, I don't know, kill the entire world except one family, but that would be preposterous for an all loving/all powerful god to do...oh, wait.

Anyways, using your logic, since God has no consequences for his actions, and no one to answer to, then he shouldn't be good. At least atheists have the CHANCE of something to answer to, at the very least prison. But God, haha, ole God has ABSOLUTELY NO WORRY about answering to anything. Hell, if he ****s up, and something goes wrong, he can just change it back. He is all powerful correct? But wait, he's also all knowing, so that means he'd know what he would do before he did it, so there would be no reason to change it....

[mhar15931]

good point. but christians will argue against this with some line from the bible

[geetar_joe]

I thought we'd settled the issue that God was moral.

What?

Killing babies, condoning rape, and ordering a father to burn his daughter isn't moral enough?

[solidus2k3]

Originally Posted by geetar_joe

I thought we'd settled the issue that God was moral.

What?

Killing babies, condoning rape, and ordering a father to burn his daughter isn't moral enough?

lol

[farzamk]

Haha Jagerboy, once again athiests win...

[user1245464]

God is 'outside' of morality... he doesn't have to justify his morality to us...

Since when did murdering thousands of babies, drowning the entire world, permiting slavery, and filicide require and explaination?

[Clipto19]

what god does is right no matter how stupid it may seem, hes always right. it might not make sense to us but also you never question god. if he says its right then its fukin right and yo ass best not question him or else.

[Alfro]

Originally Posted by mhar15931

good point. but christians will argue against this with some line from the bible

What else would they argue it with?The Bible is the word we go by, what else should we answer it with?

[JAGERBOY]

Originally Posted by Alfro

What else would they argue it with?The Bible is the word we go by, what else should we answer it with?

Talk is cheap. I can say Im all loving, but if my actions don't reflect that, then my word is garbage. Now, since God would have no one to keep him moral, just like Christians charge atheists with, and he has committed some pretty messed up acts in the past, I would say the Christians Gods word is garbage. Actions speak louder than words.

Now, can you answer the question?

[Alfro]

Originally Posted by JAGERBOY

Talk is cheap. I can say Im all loving, but if my actions don't reflect that, then my word is garbage. Now, since God would have no one to keep him moral, just like Christians charge atheists with, and he has committed some pretty messed up acts in the past, I would say the Christians Gods word is garbage. Actions speak louder than words.

Now, can you answer the question?

Me, no... I would have to ask my pastor or someone a question ike that.Kinda off topic but I think that the Bible provides good morals for everyone not just Christians, such as the 10 commantments.Even if you dont believe in God you have got to respect that right?This isnt a bad question though, its just one I dont think the average Christian can answer so they would need to ask their pastor about questions like theese.

[RelentlessChaos]

Originally Posted by JAGERBOY

So Christians like to ask atheists where they get their morals from. They say "why aren't you out murdering and raping if you think you have nothing to answer to?". They seem to think that since we don't follow a book, or think that there is a heaven or hell or a god to answer to, that we should just be out committing crimes and killing people. So basically, we have no one to answer to, and because of that, we have no fear of any real consequences.

no we arent saying you should be out comitting crimes and killing people. The question is, why do you think theyre wrong? Do you think lying to someone is wrong? Do you think gossip, slander, is wrong? If so, why? is it "do unto others, as you would have done unto you" im sure we all hate being lied to, gossiped about etc.....

Is it because of your consience? well i believe God gave us a consience, but there is also the Holy Spirit, who is out to convict the world

Originally Posted by JAGERBOY

So....what about God? Who does he have to answer to? Why would an eternal God necessarily be all loving/good? He has NO ONE to answer to. So if he gets bored with the all loving thing, he could just, oh, I don't know, kill the entire world except one family, but that would be preposterous for an all loving/all powerful god to do...oh, wait.

noah's flood. hmmm, not sure what your talking about in this paragraph, could you elaborate a bit more? As for as morals, he is perfect and it would be a "contradiction" if He were to break His own rules. He sets them. Theyre there for us to abide by, not necissarily Him. But im sure he doesnt go lying, and gossiping, sladering.

Originally Posted by JAGERBOY

Anyways, using your logic, since God has no consequences for his actions, and no one to answer to, then he shouldn't be good. At least atheists have the CHANCE of something to answer to, at the very least prison. But God, haha, ole God has ABSOLUTELY NO WORRY about answering to anything. Hell, if he ****s up, and something goes wrong, he can just change it back. He is all powerful correct? But wait, he's also all knowing, so that means he'd know what he would do before he did it, so there would be no reason to change it....

again, your bringing up something none of us will understand, or be able to explain. So its safe to assume things? makes a lot of sense.

[JAGERBOY]

Originally Posted by Alfro

Me, no... I would have to ask my pastor or someone a question ike that.Kinda off topic but I think that the Bible provides good morals for everyone not just Christians, such as the 10 commantments.Even if you dont believe in God you have got to respect that right?This isnt a bad question though, its just one I dont think the average Christian can answer so they would need to ask their pastor about questions like theese.

Dude, thats not good if you can't answer a question in your own words, and you have to ask your pastor. Im not asking you for historic evidence of something in the bible, or to interpret a particular passage, Im asking you, in your own words to tell me what keeps god "moral".

[RelentlessChaos]

Originally Posted by JAGERBOY

Talk is cheap. I can say Im all loving, but if my actions don't reflect that, then my word is garbage. Now, since God would have no one to keep him moral, just like Christians charge atheists with, and he has committed some pretty messed up acts in the past, I would say the Christians Gods word is garbage. Actions speak louder than words.

Now, can you answer the question?

i agree your actions will show what your true heart desire is. Again, i dont get how you guys' are going about trying to tell us How God acts, is, was, and will be. Do you have a relationship with Him, talk to Him, read His word, or have the Spirit living in you? If not, you wont have discernment, and youll do whats right in your own eyes.

You/I, we all cant even grasp what God is, looks like, or how He works. So your now assuming He is wrong, and committs morally wrong acts.

[JAGERBOY]

Originally Posted by RelentlessChaos

noah's flood. hmmm, not sure what your talking about in this paragraph, could you elaborate a bit more? As for as morals, he is perfect and it would be a "contradiction" if He were to break His own rules. He sets them. Theyre there for us to abide by, not necissarily Him. But im sure he doesnt go lying, and gossiping, sladering.

This is in regards to Christians that ask atheists why they are "moral" if there is no god to answer to.

[JAGERBOY]

Originally Posted by RelentlessChaos

i agree your actions will show what your true heart desire is. Again, i dont get how you guys' are going about trying to tell us How God acts, is, was, and will be. Do you have a relationship with Him, talk to Him, read His word, or have the Spirit living in you? If not, you wont have discernment, and youll do whats right in your own eyes.

You/I, we all cant even grasp what God is, looks like, or how He works. So your now assuming He is wrong, and committs morally wrong acts.

Im simply asking, what keeps god in check? God doesn't have to worry about getting hurt, killed, imprisoned, going to hell. So if atheists have nothing keeping them in check, then what does God have to keep him in check?

[farzamk]

50 million people dead in world war 2 and most killed brutally and many extremely religous died very brutal and bloody deaths while many athiests didn't die...

Great way for god to say thank you for praying to him eh?

[RelentlessChaos]

Originally Posted by JAGERBOY

Dude, thats not good if you can't answer a question in your own words, and you have to ask your pastor. Im not asking you for historic evidence of something in the bible, or to interpret a particular passage, Im asking you, in your own words to tell me what keeps god "moral".

umm we dont know everything. The point of church is to grow with each other, and grow in your relationship with God. We learn and grow together. Your pastor is there to help you. Is it wrong to have to ask your pastor about something like this?

"what keeps God moral" i honestly dont know what to say, or have an answer, or know if there is a correct answer. Why would he need to break a law of His own. Who does he have to gossip, slander, lie to or about.

What keeps you moral?

[JAGERBOY]

Originally Posted by RelentlessChaos

umm we dont know everything. The point of church is to grow with each other, and grow in your relationship with God. We learn and grow together. Your pastor is there to help you. Is it wrong to have to ask your pastor about something like this?

"what keeps God moral" i honestly dont know what to say, or have an answer, or know if there is a correct answer. Why would he need to break a law of His own. Who does he have to gossip, slander, lie to or about.

Im asking for your opinion.

What keeps you moral?

Evolution and the threat of going to jail.

[Alfro]

Originally Posted by JAGERBOY

Dude, thats not good if you can't answer a question in your own words, and you have to ask your pastor. Im not asking you for historic evidence of something in the bible, or to interpret a particular passage, Im asking you, in your own words to tell me what keeps god "moral".

Why isnt it good to ask your pastor if you dont have the answer? He can inform you more on the subject then you can make your own views? If I dont understand something in school are you saying that I should try and figure it out on my own instead of ask the teacher(who is more educated than me and can give me a good answer) ? That is just like you saying that it is bad to ask my pastor. That is why you have him and he is willing to listen to all of your questions.That is a good question but it is hard to answer, and at the moment I cant give you an answer..

[JAGERBOY]

Originally Posted by Alfro

Why isnt it good to ask your pastor if you dont have the answer? He can inform you more on the subject then you can make your own views? If I dont understand something in school are you saying that I should try and figure it out on my own instead of ask the teacher(who is more educated than me and can give me a good answer) ? That is just like you saying that it is bad to ask my pastor. That is why you have him and he is willing to listen to all of your questions.That is a good question but it is hard to answer, and at the moment I cant give you an answer..

Because you are continuing the cycle of brainwashing. You aren't thinking for yourself, you are just relying on the word of your pastor and then parroting it off instead of arriving at your own conclusion. But yes, ask him, Im curious to see what he says.

[RelentlessChaos]

Originally Posted by farzamk

50 million people dead in world war 2 and most killed brutally and many extremely religous died very brutal and bloody deaths while many athiests didn't die...

Great way for god to say thank you for praying to him eh?

yet another post blaming God for deaths? Honestly, think about it. Your blaming GOd for our actions. If death isnt a result of our immediate actions, then its just a part of life.

As ive said before, we all have a purpose and plan here on this earth, and it will be fulfilled before we pass. All will pass. Its life. How can you go about blaming God for someone you love who dies? Why do you expect Him to save everyone? we'd all be living for eternity then.

Its your perspective, and you think its wrong for people dying. But are we playing or living by your rules or morals? no. Its Gods creation, and what he says or does, is what he wants to say or do.

[draco]

Originally Posted by JAGERBOY

So Christians like to ask atheists where they get their morals from. They say "why aren't you out murdering and raping if you think you have nothing to answer to?". They seem to think that since we don't follow a book, or think that there is a heaven or hell or a god to answer to, that we should just be out committing crimes and killing people. So basically, we have no one to answer to, and because of that, we have no fear of any real consequences.

So....what about God? Who does he have to answer to? Why would an eternal God necessarily be all loving/good? He has NO ONE to answer to. So if he gets bored with the all loving thing, he could just, oh, I don't know, kill the entire world except one family, but that would be preposterous for an all loving/all powerful god to do...oh, wait.

Anyways, using your logic, since God has no consequences for his actions, and no one to answer to, then he shouldn't be good. At least atheists have the CHANCE of something to answer to, at the very least prison. But God, haha, ole God has ABSOLUTELY NO WORRY about answering to anything. Hell, if he ****s up, and something goes wrong, he can just change it back. He is all powerful correct? But wait, he's also all knowing, so that means he'd know what he would do before he did it, so there would be no reason to change it....

I've heard arguments stating that whatever God commands is good, not necesarily because it is "good" in a above God metaphysical sense, but because He commands it.

I believe the reasoning is that if you follow what God commands, you become closer to Him, which is what your soul yearns for, which is "good." It could be anything, but if commanded by God, you must follow it, because this is how you become closer to Him.

Also, look up the Euthyphro Dilemma which is from Plato's "Euthyphro." It's topic is similar to this and very interesting.

[JAGERBOY]

Originally Posted by draco

I've heard arguments stating that whatever God commands is good, not necesarily because it is "good" in a above God metaphysical sense, but because He commands it.

I believe the reasoning is that if you follow what God commands, you become closer to Him, which is what your soul yearns for, which is "good." It could be anything, but if commanded by God, you must follow it, because this is how you become closer to Him.

Also, look up the Euthyphro Dilemma which is from Plato's "Euthyphro." It's topic is similar to this and very interesting.

It doesn't work for me. Just because God is the originator, if he views things as sins or evil, then that means those things are evil regardless of who does it, even him. If a parent tells their child not to steal, just because they are in an authoritative position, does not give them the right to steal. If murder is evil, and god murders people, then he is evil. Doesn't matter if created the concept of evil, doesn't matter if he created the idea of morals. Because once he created them, he is then stuck within his own realm of creation. Your authority does not give you a pass on morality.

[jackal337]

Originally Posted by mhar15931

good point. but christians will argue against this with some line from the bible

Well yeah, if you want to discuss where a fictional character gets his morals from, you can only look to the work of fiction in which he is portrayed to draw your conclusions. Anything else would be speculation.

[devire1]

"god" is perfect. so he doesn't need to have someone to answer to to have "morals".

of course "morals" is just another word for common human nature that most humans share due to evolution and also lessons that have been taught to them by parents and society. these lessons have existed long before any known religious texts so they are not a product of any "god" / gods, and serve the betterment of society.

[Revolver45]

Whether or not you consider God to be "moral" or not has no bearing on whether or not he actually exists. I doubt there's a Christian out there who doesn't have a lot of questions that he or she wants to ask if they ever get the opportunity.

[r_robert]

Atheists Ftw!

[Clipto19]

Originally Posted by r_robert

Atheists Ftw!

Palestinians arent atheists?? wtf but yes, you're right about that part.

[Calhexas]

Originally Posted by JAGERBOY

So Christians like to ask atheists where they get their morals from. They say "why aren't you out murdering and raping if you think you have nothing to answer to?". They seem to think that since we don't follow a book, or think that there is a heaven or hell or a god to answer to, that we should just be out committing crimes and killing people. So basically, we have no one to answer to, and because of that, we have no fear of any real consequences.

So....what about God? Who does he have to answer to? Why would an eternal God necessarily be all loving/good? He has NO ONE to answer to. So if he gets bored with the all loving thing, he could just, oh, I don't know, kill the entire world except one family, but that would be preposterous for an all loving/all powerful god to do...oh, wait.

Anyways, using your logic, since God has no consequences for his actions, and no one to answer to, then he shouldn't be good. At least atheists have the CHANCE of something to answer to, at the very least prison. But God, haha, ole God has ABSOLUTELY NO WORRY about answering to anything. Hell, if he ****s up, and something goes wrong, he can just change it back. He is all powerful correct? But wait, he's also all knowing, so that means he'd know what he would do before he did it, so there would be no reason to change it....

while i don't think atheists are without morals, you're human, God is supposedly a supreme being. Different set of rules...which he set by the way.

Anyways...there's nothing I can say that hasn't already been said by some christian...can't compare mortal beings to their immortal supreme creator. The idea though would be that God doesn't really "F" up anything...everything has a reason. But then again I don't know if that's completely true. I mean I'm sure if he has made any mistakes, they were few and far between. Probably the only mistake I can see is allowing Satan such a powerful hold on humanity. But then again he's vowed to let us make our own decisions...so it depends on how you look at it. One may say it's a mistake, but wouldn't it be a bigger mistake if he just went around controlling everything and everyone...and nobody had the gift of choice? Sure nobody would go to hell...but nobody would ever truly be able to live or do what they want when they want.

Also, I fully understand that human law is enough incentive not to do anything wrong...but to some not even that is enough. Also, I'm sure that such laws and rules were founded through God, even if it wasn't the christian God they were attributed to in the beginning, the inspiration and realization of such morals had to come from somewhere.

[draco]

Originally Posted by JAGERBOY

It doesn't work for me. Just because God is the originator, if he views things as sins or evil, then that means those things are evil regardless of who does it, even him. If a parent tells their child not to steal, just because they are in an authoritative position, does not give them the right to steal. If murder is evil, and god murders people, then he is evil. Doesn't matter if created the concept of evil, doesn't matter if he created the idea of morals. Because once he created them, he is then stuck within his own realm of creation. Your authority does not give you a pass on morality.

It is believed that God knows what is best for us. This would mean that the morality He hands down are guidelines by which we can follow to achieve our purpose (which is to be closer to him) and attain happiness. When God acts it is for our best interests. This is where faith comes in to believe that God is actually acting for our true interests.

The morality cannot be applied to Him because it is a morality designed for humans.