No Compulsion in Religion

[TranceNRG]

In the Quran we have a group of verses which specify that religion is to be accepted freely and cannot be forced upon someone and this confirms what we have been saying namely that in Islam no one can be coerced, be told either to become Muslims or die. These verses illuminate those unconditional verses in a different way.

One is a part of Ayatul-kursi (2:255-257) and is well-known;

"There is no compulsion in religion, for the truth has been made manifest from the false" (2:255)

Which means that we must explain clearly the right path to people; its own reality, is manifest. There is no place for the use of compulsion in religion, no one must be obliged to accept the religion of Islam. This verse is explicit in its meaning. In the Quranic commentaries it is written that an Ansari who had previously been a polytheist had two sons who had converted to Christianity. These two sons had become fascinated by Christianity and very devoted to it, but their father was now a Muslim and upset that his sons had become Christians. He went to the Holy Prophet and said to him: "Rasulallah! What can I do to these sons of mine who have become Christians? Whatever I have tried, still they do not accept Islam. Do you give me permission to force them to leave their religion and become Muslims?" The Prophet said: "No. there is no compulsion in religion."

About the circumstances in which this verse was revealed, it is also written that there were two tribes, the Aws and the Khazraj, who were living in Medina, and who were the original inhabitants of Medina. At the dawn of Islam they were living there together with several large Jewish tribes who had come to Medina at a later period. One was the tribe, Bani Nazil, and another was the Bani Qoraizeh, while there was yet another large tribe of Jews that lived on the fringes of the city.

The Jews, having Judaism as their religion and having also a holy book, came to be more or less considered as the learned of that society, while, amongst the original inhabitants of Medina, who were polytheists and generally illiterate, there had newly come into existence a small group also able to read and write. The Jews, as a result of their superior culture and the wide dimension of their thoughts, exercised quite an influence on this group. Thus, despite the fact that the religion of the Aws and Khazraj was different from that of the Jews, nevertheless they allowed themselves to be influenced by Jewish ideas. As a result, they would sometimes send their children to the Jews to be educated, and while they were among the Jews, the children would once in a while renounce their pagan religion of polytheism and convert to Judaism. Thus, when the Holy Prophet entered Medina, a group of these boys from that city were being trained by the Jews and had chosen for themselves the Jewish religion, which some of them chose not to renounce. The parents of these children became Muslims, yet the children did not give up their new religion Judaism. And when it was settled that the Jews should leave Medina (as a punishment for the chaos they had instigated), those children also left with their fellow Jews. Their fathers came to the Holy Prophet asking him for permission for them to separate their children from the Jews, to force them to relinquish Judaism and to become Muslims; permission which the Holy Prophet did not give. They said: "O Rasulallah! Allow us to force them to leave their religion and embrace Islam." The Holy Prophet told them: "No. Now that they have chosen to go with the Jews, let them go with them." And the commentators say that it was then that the verse (2:255) was revealed.


Another famous verse is:

"And call to the way of your Lord (Rabb) with the judgment and beautiful admonitions, and dispute with them with that which is beautiful..." (16:125)

Invite people to the path of your Rabba. With what? With force of sword? No. With beautiful admonitions and advice.

"And dispute with them with that which is beautiful... " (16:125)

With those who dispute with us, we must also dispute, beautifully. This verse has introduced clearly the way for Islam to be embraced.

In another verse we are told:

"The truth is from your Rabba, so whoever has the will so he must reject..." (18:29)

Whoever wants to believe will believe, and whoever wants to be a kafir will be a kafir. So this verse has also stated that faith and rejection, iman and kufr, can only be chosen by oneself, they cannot be forced upon one by others. So Islam does not say that others must be forced into Islam; that if they become Muslims, well and good, and if they do not, they are to be killed, that the choice is theirs. Islam says that whoever wants to believe will believe, and whoever does not want to, will not.

There is also this verse:

"And if your Lord willed all the earth would have believed, in total, will you then compel them to be believers." (10:99)

The verse is addressed to the Prophet. The Holy Prophet really loved the people and wanted them to be true believers. The Quran says that the use of force in the matter of belief is meaningless. If force was valid, God Himself, with His own Power of creation would have made believers of all the people, but belief is a thing that people must choose for themselves. God with all His Powers of creation and compulsion has not forced mankind to be true believers and has given them the free will to choose. Thus, for the same reason the Prophet also was to let them choose for themselves. He whose heart has the desire will become a good believer, and he whose heart does not want to, will not.

Another verse addressed to the Prophet says:

"Seemingly you will grieve yourself to death that they do not become good believers." (26: 3)
"O Prophet! it is as if you intend to kill yourself because they have not believed as if you want to destroy yourself. Do not be so full of grief for their sakes. We, with Our Power of Creation and Might, if we wanted to force the people to belief we could easily have done so. If we willed it, we could send down the sky a sign to overshadow their neck, for them to be submissive" (26:4)

Here God says that if He wanted to send down from the sky a sign, an affliction, and tell the people that they must either become true believers or be destroyed by that affliction, all the people under compulsion would become believers, but He does not do so because He wants the people to choose for themselves.

These verses further clarify the idea of jihad in Islam and make clear that jihad in Islam is not that which some self-interested parties have said it is. These verses clarify that Islam's aim is not compulsion; that it does not command Muslims to raise the sword over the head of whoever is not a Muslim and offer the simple choice of Islam or death; that this is not the purpose of jihad.

By: Ayatullah Morteza Mutahhari

[Vante]

Well, all thats nice and dandy in theory, but you have to understand that practically speaking, prejudice always gets the best of ppl.

[TranceNRG]

Originally Posted by Vante

Well, all thats nice and dandy in theory, but you have to understand that practically speaking, prejudice always gets the best of ppl.

I agree...
Criminals and sinners always exist.

[alicairo]

"There is no compulsion in religion, for the truth has been made manifest from the false" (2:255)

I agree with this statement.
I cannot say all Catholics agree, but, this is how my faith came to be.

[Organichu]

Trance,

I do not speak Arabic fluently, but I do speak Hebrew, and so I've come to naturally recognize a good bit of Arabic vocabulary. I do not know the exact definition, but when I hear 'kafir', my first thought would be "ingrate", or "not accepting". I haven't been surrounded by Arabic in a long time, so I could be off.

Isn't that a harsh way to describe non believers? I liked the tone of your OP, because I agree that no religion should be compulsory; at the same time, though, I think "ingrate" would be a poor word, then, to describe non-adherents.

Am I translating it poorly?

[Organichu]

Anyone who speaks Arabic: can you clear this up for me? In my mind the word has really degrading connotations.

[TranceNRG]

Originally Posted by Organichu

Trance,

I do not speak Arabic fluently, but I do speak Hebrew, and so I've come to naturally recognize a good bit of Arabic vocabulary. I do not know the exact definition, but when I hear 'kafir', my first thought would be "ingrate", or "not accepting". I haven't been surrounded by Arabic in a long time, so I could be off.

Isn't that a harsh way to describe non believers? I liked the tone of your OP, because I agree that no religion should be compulsory; at the same time, though, I think "ingrate" would be a poor word, then, to describe non-adherents.

Am I translating it poorly?

I don't speak Arabic myself, but I've read about this word

Kafir comes from the root word "kafr", which means "to cover."
Kafir is the one who covers the truth.

Kafir IS a harsh word, however, it is only directed towards disbelievers and NOT non-believers. Disbelievers are those who are aware of the truth, YET consciously and actively choose to reject it due to the diseases of the hearts (arrogance, pride, envy and etc.)
So kafirs, are those who KNOW the truth, YET COVER it from others (either by lying or not mentioning it) in order to misguide others away from God's path. AND disbelievers will be punished severely in the hereafter.

It is very important to distinguish between disbelievers and nonbelievers/unbelievers.

For example... Satan is a DISbeliever, because he is FULLY aware of the truth, yet has chosen to misguide the people, and he will be punished in hell eternally.

[Organichu]

Originally Posted by TranceNRG

I don't speak Arabic myself, but I've read about this word

Kafir comes from the root word "kafr", which means "to cover."
Kafir is the one who covers the truth.

Kafir IS a harsh word, however, it is only directed towards disbelievers and NOT non-believers. Disbelievers are those who are aware of the truth, YET consciously and actively choose to reject it due to the diseases of the hearts (arrogance, pride, envy and etc.)
So kafirs, are those who KNOW the truth, YET COVER it from others (either by lying or not mentioning it) in order to misguide others away from God's path. AND disbelievers will be punished severely in the hereafter.

It is very important to distinguish between disbelievers and nonbelievers/unbelievers.

For example... Satan is a DISbeliever, because he is FULLY aware of the truth, yet has chosen to misguide the people, and he will be punished in hell eternally.

Okay, Trance, thank you for the clarification. That makes far more sense and I can see the distinction.

Thanks.

[TranceNRG]

Originally Posted by Organichu

Okay, Trance, thank you for the clarification. That makes far more sense and I can see the distinction.

Thanks.

No problem

[Vante]

Would an atheist be a disbeliever? (assuming he knows that a religion called Islam exists)

What about Sunni Muslims? (I ask, because you are Shia, correct me if Iam wrong)..

[HatesFat]

Can you please outline the treatment of Apostates under Islamic law?

Thanks
HF.

[TranceNRG]

Originally Posted by Vante

Would an atheist be a disbeliever? (assuming he knows that a religion called Islam exists)

One of the scholars in his translation of the Qur'an has used the word "faithless" for this word. A person, who knows about Islam, and has rejected it either by not studying it, or studying it, knowing its truth but not accepting it, would then be considered a kafir.

What about Sunni Muslims? (I ask, because you are Shia, correct me if Iam wrong)..

No
They are not considered Kafirs...

[TranceNRG]

Originally Posted by HatesFat

Can you please outline the treatment of Apostates under Islamic law?

Thanks
HF.

This question has been asked repeatedly...

http://al-islam.org/short/apostasy/

^ short book about it...

In Islam, the concept of treason is not limited to political and military aspects; it also has a spiritual and cultural dimension to it. In the Islamic order of sacredness, Allah, then the Prophet, and then the Quran occupy the highest positions. Tawhid (oneness of God), nubuwwa (prophethoot of prophet Mohammad), and qiyama (The afterlife) form the constitution of Islam. Just as upholding and protecting the constitution of a country is sign of patriotism, and undermining it is a form of treason - in the same way open rejection of the fundamental beliefs of Islam by a Muslim is an act of treason. Apostasy, i.e., the public declaration of rejecting the fundamentals of Islam, has also negative influence on the Muslim society; it is indeed a major fitna. And that is why Islam has prescribed harsh punishment for apostasy.


It must be emphasized that the apostasy that we are discussing here involves open rejection, without any force and with full realization of what one's statements or actions imply. If a Muslim has a genuine doubt on an Islamic matter, that process of doubting does not automatically classify him as an apostate. As long as he is still in state of doubt, the punishment of apostasy is suspended.[6] An apostate must fully realize the implications of his open rejection and what it means - casting doubt on the truth and honesty of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) as the Messenger of God.


The punishment prescribed by the shariah for apostasy is death.


This punishment is only applicable in case of apostasy by men; in case of women, the punishment is not death but life imprisonment. And if such a woman repents, then her repentance is accepted and the punishment is lifted.


In writings of some of the Shiah jurists, one gets the sense that the punishment of apostate is to be implemented only in the Muslim world, and that if the murtad flees to the abode of disbelief, then he is not to be pursued.[8]

[HatesFat]

Originally Posted by TranceNRG

The punishment prescribed by the shariah for apostasy is death.

No compulsion in religion.

Yeah, I can see that.

Is anyone else buying this crap?

[alicairo]

Originally Posted by HatesFat

No compulsion in religion.

Yeah, I can see that.

Is anyone else buying this crap?

my faith is not complusive..
that's enough for me to know

[HatesFat]

Originally Posted by alicairo

my faith is not complusive..
that's enough for me to know

Were you to choose something other than Islam now and publicly declare it, you would be put to death.

That's pretty compelling if you're in some crazy country where they can actually do that.

[TranceNRG]

Originally Posted by HatesFat

Were you to choose something other than Islam now and publicly declare it, you would be put to death.

That's pretty compelling if you're in some crazy country where they can actually do that.

Apostasy is treason and a crime in an Islamic state.
Were you to choose treason and publically declare it anywhere, you'd be punished...
Were you to commit ANY crime publically you'd be punished...

If you don't want to be a muslim, if you want to smoke crack, if you want to commit ANY crime, as long as you do it privately you will not be punished.

So, I think your issue is that, you want to declare loudly to everyone in public that you're not a muslim anymore, while you're IN an Islamic state, and you expect not to be punished or arrestd...

[HatesFat]

Originally Posted by TranceNRG

Apostasy is treason and a crime in an Islamic state.
Were you to choose treason and publically declare it anywhere, you'd be punished...
Were you to commit ANY crime publically you'd be punished...

Agreed. In Canada we have compulsion in behaviour because we forcibly prevent people from things like murder and rape. So you might say:

1. We compel people to not kill anyone on pain of grave punishment
2. We compel people to not rape anyone on pain of grave punishment
3. We compel people to not steal on pain of punishment.

In ISLAM:
4. you COMPEL people to FOLLOW a religion on pain of DEATH.

If you don't want to be a muslim, if you want to smoke crack, if you want to commit ANY crime, as long as you do it privately you will not be punished.

We're not talking about compulsion in smoking crack. We're talking about compulsion in following Islam.

So, I think your issue is that, you want to declare loudly to everyone in public that you're not a muslim anymore, while you're IN an Islamic state, and you expect not to be punished or arrestd...

Exactly. If that's not compulsion, I don't know what is.

[TranceNRG]

Originally Posted by HatesFat

Agreed. In Canada we have compulsion in behaviour because we forcibly prevent people from things like murder and rape. So you might say:

1. We compel people to not kill anyone on pain of grave punishment
2. We compel people to not rape anyone on pain of grave punishment
3. We compel people to not steal on pain of punishment.

In ISLAM:
4. you COMPEL people to FOLLOW a religion on pain of DEATH.

No
see...
According to Islamic Laws, you "COULD" become an apostate, without being punished in THIS world by the Islamic courts.
But to preserve the Islamic society, to prevent treason against the islamic society, IF someone chooses to publically announce their crime, THEN they will be punished.

So, the punishment of death is prescribed ONLY WHEN you make announce it publically, which is not difficult to see, how it may disturb an Islamic society.

If you wish to leave Islam, you have the free will and the choice to do so. Just do it privately without disturbing the society.

Lastly, there are ways to avoid punishment in this world, in regards to ANY crime, however, it is the next world that ANY criminal should be worried about more.

We're not talking about compulsion in smoking crack. We're talking about compulsion in following Islam.

There's no compulsion.
Let's think about it...

If you possess crack in your pocket and you keep quiet about it, you won't be punished for it. Now, if you walk to a police station and publically confess that you have crack in your pocket, THEN you will be punished.

So, it is YOUR action that leads to YOUR punishment.
There would be NO punishment in THIS world, if you choose to behave in such a way to avoid punishment.

Exactly. If that's not compulsion, I don't know what is.

The compulsion is NOT about following Islam, it's rather to prevent the society from diturbance.

In an islamic state, the foundation of the society is based on Islam. So, IF a person chooses to publically reject the foundations of the society, then it may lead to social disturbance.

Think about publically undermining the foundation of ANY society...

[JAGERBOY]

Originally Posted by TranceNRG

One of the scholars in his translation of the Qur'an has used the word "faithless" for this word. A person, who knows about Islam, and has rejected it either by not studying it, or studying it, knowing its truth but not accepting it, would then be considered a kafir.

So if I HAVE studied it, and don't think its the truth, I am not a kafir then?

[TranceNRG]

Originally Posted by JAGERBOY

So if I HAVE studied it, and don't think its the truth, I am not a kafir then?

If you have studied it, certain parts of it do seem to be the truth to you, but you still have doubts about other parts, and because of those doubts you reject even the parts that you do know are true, you'd be a kafir.

Being a kafir is an issue of the heart. A kafir KNOWS the truth (either parts of it or all of it), yet due to pride, arrogance, envy, stubborness and etc., chooses not to admit to it and rejects it instead.

So, from a muslim perspective, IF you have genuinely and sincerely studied it, without approaching it with a biased heart and mind, then you would've seen its truth. However, when an individual approaches anything with a biased heart, and with a decision already made in his/her heart, then regardless how much one studies that topic, he/she won't change his/her heart.


Therefore, a muslims, would tell you that before you study ANY religion, it's best to polish your heart by fighting your inner temptations and vain desires, by fighting the ego, and by strictly abiding to a set of ethical laws. Such adherence to ethics and the conflicts one faces in life, help in polishing one's heart.

Then AFTER, you feel the bias and the partiality has been removed from your heart, you could beging studying religions, once again.

[JAGERBOY]

Originally Posted by TranceNRG

If you have studied it, certain parts of it do seem to be the truth to you, but you still have doubts about other parts, and because of those doubts you reject even the parts that you do know are true, you'd be a kafir.

Being a kafir is an issue of the heart. A kafir KNOWS the truth (either parts of it or all of it), yet due to pride, arrogance, envy, stubborness and etc., chooses not to admit to it and rejects it instead.

So, from a muslim perspective, IF you have genuinely and sincerely studied it, without approaching it with a biased heart and mind, then you would've seen its truth. However, when an individual approaches anything with a biased heart, and with a decision already made in his/her heart, then regardless how much one studies that topic, he/she won't change his/her heart.


Therefore, a muslims, would tell you that before you study ANY religion, it's best to polish your heart by fighting your inner temptations and vain desires, by fighting the ego, and by strictly abiding to a set of ethical laws. Such adherence to ethics and the conflicts one faces in life, help in polishing one's heart.

Then AFTER, you feel the bias and the partiality has been removed from your heart, you could beging studying religions, once again.

So I believe a guy named Mohammed probably existed. And I believe there may be SOME historical truths. But all the other crazy stuff I don't believe in. Do you think Im a kafir?

[TranceNRG]

Originally Posted by JAGERBOY

So I believe a guy named Mohammed probably existed. And I believe there may be SOME historical truths. But all the other crazy stuff I don't believe in. Do you think Im a kafir?

http://www.understanding-islam.com/r...stion&qid=1642

[JAGERBOY]

Originally Posted by TranceNRG

http://www.understanding-islam.com/r...stion&qid=1642

Again, do YOU think I'm a Kafir?

[TranceNRG]

Originally Posted by JAGERBOY

Again, do YOU think I'm a Kafir?

No...
I don't make personal judgment calls.
I don't know much about your personality, your environment, how you were raised, the events in your life and etc., so I can't make a judgment call.

[asiya-sparkles]

Originally Posted by HatesFat

Were you to choose something other than Islam now and publicly declare it, you would be put to death.

That's pretty compelling if you're in some crazy country where they can actually do that.

that isn't correct really, because in Islam Muslimsare informed to respect the right of people to follow their own religion. It is about people having 'pledged' then publicly denouncing Islam. There is a difference InshAllah this will make sense for you.

[asiya-sparkles]

salam alaikom brother...good thread!

[Bodysteele]

Originally Posted by HatesFat

No compulsion in religion.

Yeah, I can see that.

Is anyone else buying this crap?

I buy it....I was baptized in the Roman Catholic Church at several months of age then became a Lutheran and rejected the R Cath. church at 17 bc I rejected its stances on scripture, Zionism, and marriage for Priests...as well as a myriad of other stuff.

I looked into Islam and even Buddhism....but in the end since I believed Jesus Christ was G-d reborn and not merely a prophet or philosopher I had to reconcile that with my rejection of the Church through the practice of Lutheranism...

So now im a Lutheran.

I was never prothelytized or brought up as one or in the church.