Why religion is false and God cannot exist

[farzamk]

Here's a piece of writing I wrote earlier on a different forum. This will show you the reason how all religions have come to be and how they are accepted:

*Mormonism was founded by Joseph Smith, born 1805. According to the official story of the LDS Church, in 1820 Smith was visited by God the Father and God the Son, after praying about which church he should join. He was told by Jesus, he should join none of them for they were "all wrong" and all the Christian church's doctrines "were an abomination" (Joseph Smith - History 19, Pearl of Great Price). This First Vision was followed by several visits from an angel named Moroni who, in 1827, directed Smith to retrieve a set of Golden Plates which had been buried in a hill near Smith's home in Palmyra, New York. Between 1827-1830, Smith, with the help of friends, translated the Golden Plates into the LDS scripture, the Book of Mormon. Published in 1830, this was to become the first of many scriptures for the Mormon Church. By this time, Smith had also officially organized the LDS Church and was gaining a following.

Here is one of their doctrines:

Black people are black because of their misdeeds in the pre-existence (Three Degrees of Glory, LDS Apostle Melvin J. Ballard, p. 21). No need to comment on the unbelievable arrant nonsense of this point.

The main point of interest here however, is how Joseph Smith started his new church. He claimed to have had a vision (he was the only one to have had this vision) that told him to start a new church with himself as the leader.(How fortunate for Smith). He was told where to find the 'golden plates' that contained 'the scriptures' (they just happened to be buried, by an ancient civilisation, conveniently near his home in New York). He set out alone and 'found' them alone.(No witnesses). Once found, only he could translate them with the aid of a mystical device that only he was in possession of. (Very fortunate). Smith allowed no one else to see the plates and 'translated' them in secret from behind a screen. (Okay, we've got the picture).

Smith was a known trickster and fraudster and was charged by the police on a number of occasions for various offenses.

Some may say that the whole thing was an obvious fraud devised by Smith to set himself up as the leader of a new church. Indeed, to believe otherwise would take a monumental leap of faith that would include leaving behind common sense and reason. BUT, Mormonism is a growing religion that has a massive following. Why? Because it was not 'Smith's ' idea, it was revealed to Smith in a vision, or so he claimed. This is crucial. If he had attempted to start this new church as his idea, without such a 'devine seal of approval' the entire concept would never have got off the ground. People wouldn't have believed tricky Smith, but the words of Jesus, that's a different matter entirely. It could be argued however, that it really doesn't matter how the Mormon Church was founded as many would say it does a lot of good anyway.

As another example of religion we can look to Christianity and The Ten Commandments. Moses was leading the Israelites away from Egypt into the desert. After months of travel the masses were a little discontent, they were making golden idols and generally misbehaving, they needed strong leadership. They wouldn't listen to Moses, after all, what right did he have to tell them what to do? So Moses heads up (alone) into the high mountain and there, in complete secrecy, is given the ten commandments by God. He returns with the famous stone tablets and reads out the law, the word of God. The law must be obeyed without question because it comes from God, with Moses of course as His chosen spokesman on Earth. Sound familiar? This of course is pretty much the same method as adopted by Joseph Smith in modern times, and why not? it worked for Moses. The same theme, with variations, has been used time and time again in all religions since time immemorial. **




Ok I didn't copy the whole thing I wrote as it goes on for quite a while, but you see above how any religion has come to be.

Islam for example had the prophet Muhamaad be in a cave all by himself all day long for many years, his future actions clearly showed he was a power hungry and sex addicted man. He brought forth Islam by first gathering a small group of young people and then came some more idiots who joined him. Eventually his power grew and he was attacking villages and marrying women. He set his own limit to 4 but ended up having 13 wives!! The so called "4 limit set by Allah," now became 13 for him because he was for some reason an exception. One will uncommonly have 4-5 sexual partners let alone 13! He even married a 9 year old girl whom he had sex with (pedophile). It wasn't enough for him though...he brought a surah from Allah that permitted sex with slaves, is it a coincidence he ended up having sex with a woman who's husband has just been murdered on that also same day? In total I'd say he had 25-30 sexual partners in his lifetime, of course we never knew about him before he brought Islam and 25-30 includes 13 wives and lots of unnamed slaves.


So my point is a man whom is sent by God and who brings the so called final religion, is he supposed to be a sex addict and power hungry, or a proper man like he is exagerrated to be?


Why God doesn't exist, well there are too many reasons.

How about the world trade center and 9/11 attacks which killed all those people? How about the tsunami? How about all the suicide bombing? How about all the natural disasters that have happened? Do these really show God's mercifulness? Especially if we consider the fact that a whole bunch of people who died in these were extremely religous and were praying until the last moment.

Now how about miracles. Why did they stop? The seas do not part anymore to allow refugees to cross, the starving masses are not fed with a few fish. Why not?

Iman Mahdi in Islam is supposed to return, why do Muslims ignore the signs of him returning? They are waiting for someone that is never going to happen and want to delay the so called predicted signs that were written in the Quran because deep down they know it can't happen now and probably never will.

So anyways back to the miracles thing, why doesn't God send down a VERY clear miracle so we can all believe in him. After all he is all loving and merciful so he doesn't want us in Hell right? So why play with our minds when he is all powerful and knows what's going to happen in the end, if we really have free will as said in religous books, send down signs, and not ones that are hoaxes which we see and hear A LOT of, something very convincing to convert everyone into the right religion. I mean most will say "Jesus came down to earth," well what proof do you have that actually shows everything that happened the way it did with Jesus? Just because a book says so doesn't mean it's right. Plus something that was 2000 years ago isn't very convincing for scientists and philosophers, so if God really loves us the way it says in the Torah, Bible and Quran, he'll want us all in heaven and he should know sending down one man to change mankind is pretty idiotic...he needs to send down clear signs, and they seem to be coming if you're a small boy with a IQ of 60 to actually believe it, but obviously noone seems to be buying them so clearly they aren't clever enough. Again showing that God isn't all poweful and almighty and most of all not all-loving.


We see all these things happening in the news, one religous person may tell you "noone knows God's work/plan," and you watch people die and say "God has good reason for all of this." Would you say the same thing if it was a family or relative or a loved person who died in a natural disaster or in 9/11? I doubt it..

This leads me to another point, why is there evil? Why have 50 million people die in world war II?

What about AIDs and cancer? Is it population control with all these deaths? But why not just make it harder to get pregnant in the first place, God is all knowing so he should know how especially if he can create and design the universe and the world. I'm sure a average man can tell you how God could make it harder to have a baby, that's a much better population control method rather than brutal murder.

For those who say you'll end up in heaven, well all those years of suffering for what? Another person will also end up in heaven who lived a much more comfortable life, why did you have to suffer and he didn't?


Now I come to my final point and question which I will defenitely get. People will ask me: How did the Universe and life come from?

I'm sure we all know about the Big Bang, it is very logical and has lots of proof behind it in the solar system and other regions of our galaxy and others. We know the universe expands, and has been since the moment of explosion, why would the universe expand if God just said Be and everything came to be? If he is that powerful, why not fix up some things on this tiny little planet Earth?

Plus the universe doesn't appear intelligently designed...98% dark matter and everything just going around in different order and everything happening by chance.

[farzamk]

Abiogenesis will explain how life came to be from nothing, how a single cell formed into more advanced life over the course of 13 billion years. Everything in nature happens by chance, like if your baby is a boy or girl or how earth has life and nowhere in the universe till the point we know of has any. We're animals that out of all the speicies we have in our world today just happened to get smart and formed civilization, while other animals haven't because they aren't smart enough... Same thing applies to earth, out of all the things formed from the big bang in the universe, the earth against odds of 1 to a trillion became a life filled planet. While millions of other planets may have came close but have no human like intelligent life.

[HELIX35]

To say god can't exist is extremely ignorant.

[daniel77]

Thankyou! You dont know how long I have been waiting for this. This explains everything we have been trying to understand for thousands of years...you have done it...God Bless You!

[ElderJefferson]

Originally Posted by HELIX35

To say god can't exist is extremely ignorant.

He's a troll, and I think it's the only thing he CAN say (based on his post history).

Basically, it's farzamk's word against the Bible.

Hmmm, tough decision. It's like trying to choose between a doughnut and baked chicken.

[jackal337]

Originally Posted by HELIX35

To say god can't exist is extremely ignorant.

depends on your definition of god. an all powerful, all good god can not exist. but a god possessing just one of those characteristics could possibly exist.

[Rune]

Originally Posted by HELIX35

To say god can't exist is extremely ignorant.

It's also extremely ignorant to say God must exisit based on a book written 2000 years ago.

[st_jimmy]

Originally Posted by Rune

It's also extremely ignorant to say God must exisit based on a book written 2000 years ago.

x2

[farzamk]

If anyone is willing to intelligently tell me why and how my post above is wrong, I will debate with them, otherwise take your negs and trolling speeches elsewhere.

May I also point out, HOW can you prove God exists? You can't. Simple as that. But I can ask you what evidence is there that you say God exists? Though if you haven't actually read what I wrote, you are still not thinking outside the box and are a close minded fool.

[Violator009]

Wow youve convinced me, there is no god..

[farzamk]

I actually made this to get other people's thoughts on my opinion and what is behind every religion. I'm not trying to really convince you that there is no God...it's more for a debate..

[HELIX35]

Originally Posted by Rune

It's also extremely ignorant to say God must exisit based on a book written 2000 years ago.

I agree.

To say one absolutely can or absolutely can't is ignorant. When will people learn to accept that we just don't know.

[riptor]

Even though I agree that the OPs posts don't disprove God or religion, they do help show that religion is man made. Millions of people believe in Mormonism, and yet there is ample evidence that it is clearly false. We know the claims put forth by Joseph Smith are shady and the whole story about ancients coming to America has absolutely no evidence to support it. Yet people will believe based just on faith. There are ample reasons to suspect that all religions are man made, and not just Mormonism. The only difference is that most modern religions have their roots lost to history, or there is little known about how they began. Often all we have to go on is a religion's holy book, and it is claimed to be true by its believers based on faith, and that the book says it is true.

Cargo cults are a great example of how easily it is for religions to develop. And when the religion begins to become popular, and has existed for awhile, people tend to assume that there is something to it.

[farzamk]

All religions are man made...There can't be tons of right religions so what about long ago? Then, religion was different forms of idol worship...if there is one true path, why does God allow there to be so many untrue paths, of course unless he wants most people to end up in hell and only those who were "lucky" enough to be born and raises in that right path's community would be allowed into heaven.

[farzamk]

To add more to that, religion was made by people who wanted power or just wanted to start a religion of their own. No prophet really did miracles...of course they would say that about Jesus to make him holy, but is he really just because a book that also says the earth is flat says so? I went on a site the other day about christianity, it talked about how and why God exists and how everything is and came to be. It also said to ignore the verses that are scientifically incorrect. We all (other than those who are ignorant completely of course) know ALL religous books contain scientific errors. Of course in different translations and descriptions, one verse will be able to have many meanings because many religous verses are vague. However the verse "the earth is expanding" in the Quran, this is simply trying to say a flat earth is getting biggest an bigger if you read the entire paragraph, though a muslim scholar will say that this is talking about the continental drift and the platonic plates moving. Further they'll say this is trying to describe how the super continent pangea (which is true scientifically) came to become what it is now (NA, europe, asia etc.) Of course when you want to describe it that way it makes sense, but it is really that? Of course it isn't. The Quran also seems to try and translate verses to match the Big Bang theory as well as an expanding universe. Funny thing is an unchanged book still contains a few VERY easy to point out errors such as saying sperm comes from a man's back and the sun RISES and SETS ON earth.

[JJJJ4]

OMG!!!111 Thousands of years of debates and finally teh mystery is solved on bodybuilding.com!!11one

[farzamk]

Originally Posted by JJJJ4

OMG!!!111 Thousands of years of debates and finally teh mystery is solved on bodybuilding.com!!11one

.......

[ballsoftitanium]

Originally Posted by JJJJ4

OMG!!!111 Thousands of years of debates and finally teh mystery is solved on bodybuilding.com!!11one

**** son, some kind of Stephen Hawking ****.

Bodybalders be rockin' an IQ of 245 or some ****.

[striker543]

I like how you just string together about 50 consecutive questions that each would require at least a paragraph to answer and then expect serious replies.

[Couldbebigga]

Originally Posted by HELIX35

I agree.

To say one absolutely can or absolutely can't is ignorant. When will people learn to accept that we just don't know.

I disagree with your bolded section. Saying that "we just don't know" that god exists is like saying that "we just don't know" the FSM exists. There is as much evidence for both and it is highly unlikely that either exist.

However, you could never truly rule out the possiblity that either exists. So, when asked if god exists you can genuinely answer "NO" and be confident that you are right because the odds that he does exist are neglible.

[WCC]

oh for christ's sake.
i'm so sick of seeing these threads. why the **** do the atheists on this board feel the need to cram all this **** down our throats? there is a thread like this posted every day... this topic is so ****ing overdone.

[WRbigbody]

just my .02 you ask why God isnt delivering a "clear path" for us to believe....

then everyone would be on the Jesus bandwagon, and there would be no point in life.. basically from what I believe life is about filtering out who is a believer and who isnt... maybe the reason all of these things happen is because God wants you to question, to see if your faith is strong enough to still believe what seems nonexistent... its way to easy to believe something you see.... which is the point...

[HELIX35]

Originally Posted by Couldbebigga

I disagree with your bolded section. Saying that "we just don't know" that god exists is like saying that "we just don't know" the FSM exists. There is as much evidence for both and it is highly unlikely that either exist.

However, you could never truly rule out the possiblity that either exists. So, when asked if god exists you can genuinely answer "NO" and be confident that you are right because the odds that he does exist are neglible.

That doesn't make sense. You say with finality one could answer NO, yet mention unlikeliness and negligible odds. Either you believe he doesn't, and there are no odds he might exist, or you don't.

[Couldbebigga]

Originally Posted by HELIX35

That doesn't make sense. You say with finality one could answer NO, yet mention unlikeliness and negligible odds. Either you believe he doesn't, and there are no odds he might exist, or you don't.

It makes perfect sense. Can you say with confidence that the sun will rise tomorrow? Yes you can. However, is it possible that it won't rise? Yes it's very possible.

[zaeltart]

saying god must exist is ignorant

saying god can't exist is ignorant

saying god may exist is smart

saying god may not exist is smart

[Pump that iron!]

Farzamk, you make a good point with the whole "divine seal of approval."

Good post but I think philosophers of past times have tackled and made the same points you have.

I think you can have religion without God -- buddhism is a great example however there are buddhist sects that believe in gods called bodhisattvas.

[Rune]

Originally Posted by WRbigbody

then everyone would be on the Jesus bandwagon, and there would be no point in life.. basically from what I believe life is about filtering out who is a believer and who isnt... maybe the reason all of these things happen is because God wants you to question, to see if your faith is strong enough to still believe what seems nonexistent... its way to easy to believe something you see.... which is the point...

Why would god only send a "messenger" to the Europeans (general vicinity at least) then? Why not send one to Asia, one to South America, etc? (Yes.. I know these are WHY? questions) Further to that why did the "messengers" from those areas have completely different doctrines?

If God really does love everybody equally, and it is his intent for us to follow his rules, it seems a little odd that he would not want ALL the people of the world to be able to see his power, and to hear his laws, and not just a small percentage.

And don't give me any of this "chosen people" BS, all that would indicate is that God is a bigot.

[JJJJ4]

Originally Posted by Rune

Why would god only send a "messenger" to the Europeans (general vicinity at least) then? Why not send one to Asia, one to South America, etc? (Yes.. I know these are WHY? questions) Further to that why did the "messengers" from those areas have completely different doctrines?

If God really does love everybody equally, and it is his intent for us to follow his rules, it seems a little odd that he would not want ALL the people of the world to be able to see his power, and to hear his laws, and not just a small percentage.

And don't give me any of this "chosen people" BS, all that would indicate is that God is a bigot.

When did god send a messenger anywhere near Europe?

[Rune]

Originally Posted by JJJJ4

When did god send a messenger anywhere near Europe?

As far as I know at the time the Roman Empire stretched into what is now the middle east(or at least what is considered the "holy land"). Would the Romans not be considered European?

[Sabatoge]

Originally Posted by farzamk

Abiogenesis will explain how life came to be from nothing, how a single cell formed into more advanced life over the course of 13 billion years.

Abiogenesis will explain how nothing = something? How 0=1?

mmmk

Let us know when that happens