Why can't we just....

Lilkj · 07-17-2007, 07:34 AM

Accept that there is no extra meaning to our lives? Why must we continue to insist that there is a God watching over us and why must we continue to be so concerned with pleasing him and staying away from the devil? We've let an old wive's tale get out of control. Religion today is nothing like it was in the past, and it just keeps going downhill. Why can't we just accept that we have one life to live and thats that? Why does there HAVE to be an afterlife? I understand the idea of an afterlife helps people cope with death but its done something very creepy to the word death-it has become a welcomed experience and something most religious people embrace openly as they "Are now in Gods hands." This is horrible! Death is NOT something we should openly embrace. We should fight for our lives against all odds even if death is immenent! Stop using the name of God to ease the pain of something that should scare the **** out of you!

Is 60-80 years of time on earth not enough? You neeed more time to be happy? Actually, you need all of time? This is ridiculous! The only way you should have everlasting life is through the memory you leave behind on Earth. That way, you are TRULY immortalized. Why restrain yourself from the beauty of nature and instinct in the name of God? Why raise your children in fear of a Hell and Devil that neither of which exist. Is there any particular method to the madness of religion? Don't you find it strange that your belief is much different from that of other religions? Do you ever think that maybe you could be following the wrong ideas? If it is so easy to create a religion, and you can basically gather a following of whoever believes what you say, why do you think any of the worlds religions today are any different?

Don't speak of your God-like claims, as claims do not hold any water in a court system, and they should not hold any water when determining whether God exists or not. Miracles? Yeah right. The power of human will to overcome something such as a disease, a drug addiction, or whatever, is much more powerful than praying for results and doing nothing. Those that pull through from near death experiences did so because THEY did not want to die, not because YOU prayed or I prayed or ANYONE else prayed.

In a world where science is speeding towards the discovery of where and how life came to be, religious folks are grabbing for any ledge they can on their spiral downwards.

Why does there have to be a "meaning" to life in order for you to be happy? What, you can't just be happy that you're here, live the way that makes you happy, and fulfill your life before your death? Why do you have to surpress yourself from so many beautiful things just because you feel it will get you to heaven? What good does this do? You will die empty, and your soul will not go anywhere or do anything! While people on Earth think you went to heaven, your body will be buried in the ground and that is where it stays! It's harsh to think of it that way, but its the truth! Why would you think there is some magical place for JUST us humans? Have you ever seen it? Has anyone ever seen it? Have you ever spoke with the people who wrote the bible? Have you ever interviewed them? How do you know they even existed? It could've been written by a single person in the hopes of gathering a following-and boy did they.

I just wish religion would be done with. If you need God to ease the pain of life-then you are weak. Death is something we all do yes, but it should not be a feeling of enjoyment and fullfillment to experience such.

"LIFE IS THE GREAT INDULGENCE,DEATH THE GREAT ABSTINENCE,THEREFORE MAKE THE MOST OF LIFE-HERE AND NOW!!"

Dreamscapes · 07-17-2007, 07:39 AM

Until science has infallible, unchallengeable proof that there is no god, people will continue to believe.

Since belief (and faith) transcends science, I don't think that it's going to ever happen.

That, and some people will look at what science says and what the bible says and throw science right out the window, regardless of the evidence supporting theories.

ChplHillGymGirl · 07-17-2007, 07:42 AM

Life is what you make it, with or without God. There are plenty of people who are happy both with and without religion. Likewise, just because someone is religious or spiritual does not mean they are necessarily constantly seeking to fill a void or that they're weak.

Lilkj · 07-17-2007, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dreamscapes

Until science has infallible, unchallengeable proof that there is no god, people will continue to believe.

Since belief (and faith) transcends science, I don't think that it's going to ever happen.

That, and some people will look at what science says and what the bible says and throw science right out the window, regardless of the evidence supporting theories.

Its just madness! Its hard to believe adults believe in this kind of fairy-tale, teach it to their children like its truth, and the same continues. You'd think it'd be like Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy-there is no proof such beings exist, and they are told to be false before the child gets too old. Why do we continue to feed them lies when it comes to God and angels and devils and demons?

Cramerica · 07-17-2007, 07:56 AM

You're pretty concerned about all of this, aren't you?

Lilkj · 07-17-2007, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cramerica

You're pretty concerned about all of this, aren't you?

Yes, I am. People are so concerned with God and Heaven, that they completely forget about living life! Now, there certainly are peopel who believe in God that do not think he is responsible for everything on Earth, and they do not believe that he is there to answer prayers (as it is evident he doesn't answer prayers, because there are still starving people in the world and still mass poverty and violence). If people would live by the laws set forth in their countries, and started living lives based off of reality rather than fantasy, this world would be a much better place to live in.

**GApump** · 07-17-2007, 08:02 AM

If you wish to break that cycle that is your right, don't teach it to your children. I think you already know that in the immediate future religions (of all types) will continue to play a role in the lives of most (not all) people. It is no different for a person of a certain religion to instill that in their child than it would be for you as a non-believer to instill your beliefs in your child.

Dreamscapes · 07-17-2007, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lilkj

Its just madness! Its hard to believe adults believe in this kind of fairy-tale, teach it to their children like its truth, and the same continues. You'd think it'd be like Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy-there is no proof such beings exist, and they are told to be false before the child gets too old. Why do we continue to feed them lies when it comes to God and angels and devils and demons?

I don't know.

I have several theories, though. Although, were I to mention them, it must be known that I'd not be in any way,shape,or fashion be attempting to generalize the entire flock like I've seen done on here all too often.

Beatitude · 07-17-2007, 08:03 AM

So you are absolutely convinced that the entire population of the planet that believes in God is delusional? You are absolutely convinced that I am delusional and that the only reason I believe in God is that I am denying all the facts and denying my own mind? You are absolutely convinced that I am a brainwashed peon?

Cramerica · 07-17-2007, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lilkj

Yes, I am. People are so concerned with God and Heaven, that they completely forget about living life! Now, there certainly are peopel who believe in God that do not think he is responsible for everything on Earth, and they do not believe that he is there to answer prayers (as it is evident he doesn't answer prayers, because there are still starving people in the world and still mass poverty and violence). If people would live by the laws set forth in their countries, and started living lives based off of reality rather than fantasy, this world would be a much better place to live in.

What people? People who go to church?

You have a strange obsession over this.

Most Christians are you average everyday family who are trying to make things good for themselves and grow and educate their kids in a responsible manner. There is no fear installed here. A lot of people want stability and that's often what the church provides them with.

JAGERBOY · 07-17-2007, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beatitude

So you are absolutely convinced that the entire population of the planet that believes in God is delusional? You are absolutely convinced that I am delusional and that the only reason I believe in God is that I am denying all the facts and denying my own mind? You are absolutely convinced that I am a brainwashed peon?

Yes.

**GApump** · 07-17-2007, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JAGERBOY

Yes.

I realize that there is no point talking religion with an atheist, they have their beliefs and even if their beliefs did change they would never give anyone the satisfaction of knowing that they facilitated that change. I don't understand why people who are atheists or agnostics or whatever term they prefer insist on throwing their opinions/viewpoints in everyones face, it works both ways-neither of us is going to "win" the argument by convincing the other. /thread

SteR- · 07-17-2007, 08:19 AM

lol @ ur sig jager

Cramerica · 07-17-2007, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GApump

I realize that there is no point talking religion with an atheist, they have their beliefs and even if their beliefs did change they would never give anyone the satisfaction of knowing that they facilitated that change. I don't understand why people who are atheists or agnostics or whatever term they prefer insist on throwing their opinions/viewpoints in everyones face, it works both ways-neither of us is going to "win" the argument by convincing the other. /thread

I see the same thing.

They get mad at Christians for trying to convert people and being overbearing, but ****, even Jagerboy made a thread about how he converted his roommate. They are the same way pushy Christians...always telling you that the way you see life is wrong, you are doomed for failure, etc. The OP had 10 threads up yesterday trying to question Christianity. And yes, it's a debate forum, no ****.

Dreamscapes · 07-17-2007, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GApump

I realize that there is no point talking religion with an atheist, they have their beliefs and even if their beliefs did change they would never give anyone the satisfaction of knowing that they facilitated that change.

Well, good. Don't talk to any of us, then.

Meanwhile, I'll hold conversations with people that don't hold your ridiculous viewpoint.

**GApump** · 07-17-2007, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cramerica

I see the same thing.

They get mad at Christians for trying to convert people and being overbearing, but ****, even Jagerboy made a thread about how he converted his roommate. They are the same way pushy Christians...always telling you that the way you see life is wrong, you are doomed for failure, etc. The OP had 10 threads up yesterday trying to question Christianity. And yes, it's a debate forum, no ****.

I find overbearing people in general to be extremely self-righteous and often irritating no matter what the belief they are promoting is. I can say this about Christians that I know and of atheists that I have met, it is just important to remember in all situations that opinion is involved, be it politics, religion etc, that one opinion doesn't work for everyone, and even if you don't like the opinion someone else has they have the right to have it.

**GApump** · 07-17-2007, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dreamscapes

Well, good. Don't talk to any of us, then.

Meanwhile, I'll hold conversations with people that don't hold your ridiculous viewpoint.

Convenient how you ignored the last part of that post where I stated that it does go both ways...

edit: it works both ways-neither of us is going to "win" the argument by convincing the other.

JAGERBOY · 07-17-2007, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cramerica

I see the same thing.

They get mad at Christians for trying to convert people and being overbearing, but ****, even Jagerboy made a thread about how he converted his roommate. They are the same way pushy Christians...always telling you that the way you see life is wrong, you are doomed for failure, etc. The OP had 10 threads up yesterday trying to question Christianity. And yes, it's a debate forum, no ****.

Its amazing that you blatantly lied about what was said in that thread. In no way did I ever say or imply I was pushy. He asked questions, I answered, I gave him information, he decided for himself. I know you WANTED me to be pushy so you could say "but luk at da athiet day iz pushey too and day say dat we are pushieeez!!?!!?"

Cramerica · 07-17-2007, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JAGERBOY

Its amazing that you blatantly lied about what was said in that thread. In no way did I ever say or imply I was pushy. He asked questions, I answered, I gave him information, he decided for himself. I know you WANTED me to be pushy so you could say "but luk at da athiet day iz pushey too and day say dat we are pushieeez!!?!!?"

I didn't mean pushy in that thread...I meant pushy in general...like some Christians.

But thanks for the neg. Man, atheists are just so damn logical.

sup_builder2 · 07-17-2007, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cramerica

I didn't mean pushy in that thread...I meant pushy in general...like some Christians.

But thanks for the neg. Man, atheists are just so damn logical.

I'm an agnostic and although I love to debate with Christians on how their religion is false, I don't really have a problem with them practicing it. Most Christians keep their faith to themselves and not FORCE other people to accept it.

On the other hand, Islam, IMO, is a much bigger threat to this world. That religion brings people to their knees and forces them to obey Quran. Those who are not Muslims are forced to obey Quranic laws in an Islamic society. This is unacceptable to me. It's the exact opposite of libertarianism.

Dreamscapes · 07-17-2007, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GApump

Convenient how you ignored the last part of that post where I stated that it does go both ways...

edit: it works both ways-neither of us is going to "win" the argument by convincing the other.

You simply laid it out as atheists were the ones that wouldn't give anyone satisfaction that they facilitated the change. I guess your "no one will win" bit was to also insinuate that theists are equally stubborn and reluctant to give anyone the satisfaction of knowing they had a hand in it.

No worries. If you hold the same view (which is still incorrect) towards both camps, then that would be fair.

I've met former atheists who are happy to talk about their conversions (and giving thanks to those responsible) as well as former theists who will also talk about theirs (and give thanks to those responsible).

**GApump** · 07-17-2007, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dreamscapes

I've met former atheists who are happy to talk about their conversions (and giving thanks to those responsible) as well as former theists who will also talk about theirs (and give thanks to those responsible).

I personally have not, but you don't meet to many open atheists in the area where I live, the rural south is in many ways still heavily religious, even though many of the people that attend services regularly do not practice it in their day to day lives. It gives faith a bad name when people don't practice what they preach, and invariably those people are often the ones who are so insistent on preaching to others.

Dreamscapes · 07-17-2007, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GApump

I personally have not, but you don't meet to many open atheists in the area where I live, the rural south is in many ways still heavily religious, even though many of the people that attend services regularly do not practice it in their day to day lives. It gives faith a bad name when people don't practice what they preach, and invariably those people are often the ones who are so insistent on preaching to others.

Where do you live?

I'm in Cary, NC.

We've got tons (how much does a church weigh, anyhow?) of churches here, but other than the signs they stick out front (which, somehow, aren't in violation of Cary's nazi-esque sign policy) it really isn't so bad here. I'll get the occasional knock on the door by a particular cult that claims they've correctly interpreted the bible and wish to save our souls, but it's not much more than that.

**GApump** · 07-17-2007, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dreamscapes

Where do you live?

I'm in Cary, NC.

We've got tons (how much does a church weigh, anyhow?) of churches here, but other than the signs they stick out front (which, somehow, aren't in violation of Cary's nazi-esque sign policy) it really isn't so bad here. I'll get the occasional knock on the door by a particular cult that claims they've correctly interpreted the bible and wish to save our souls, but it's not much more than that.

I just moved after college to south Georgia, i'm from a small town but I moved to an even smaller town (only 19k in the whole county)-there are a lot of Jehovahs Witnesses here and they go door to door but otherwise nobody actively tries to recruit you for their church. It really is a big part of life in smaller towns, heck when I went to open up a girl around my age that worked at the bank invited me to attend their church-this is pretty commonplace when people find out you are new in town-i've probably had about a half dozen such invites in the 3 months since I moved here. Most of the people here are good folks from what I can see, but I feel certain that just like every place i've ever been there are many among them that don't practice what they preach. I don't like that but I don't practice out of fear of punishment after death, I do it because I know that it is the right way for me (emphasis on ME) to live my life, so I don't take what some would consider indiscretions by others personally b/c what is right for me is not necessarily right for others.

Lilkj · 07-17-2007, 09:14 AM

OK I guess the main thing I'm trying to say is this.

Even if some how and some way God really DID exist, we would probably all be wrong anyways. Even people who swear they know God exists, cannot claim that the God they worship is the TRUE God. Why do you think there have been so many different religions with different Gods? Religions come and go and beliefs come and go just as civilizations do. It won't be long before the top religions of the world today are considered nothing more than a mere myth when new religions take over. It has happened before, and it will continue to happen for the rest of eternity.

Why continue to live by a code of rules set forth in the name of a "God" you cannot prove is correct. If there is a truly all knowing, all loving God, it would most likely be better to not worship a false image of such rather than none at all. What I'm saying is is since there is no way to prove that YOUR God is the correct, why even bother living as if it is? Why not just live life as if there is no such thing, since an all-forgiving God would probably rather forgive you for NOT worshiping him rather than worshiping one that was non-existant in the first place.

If God truly existed I highly doubt he would be concerned with proving to people he existed by answering prayers and giving a VERY select few the ability to communicate to him this way. He would most likely rather us live on the Earth as a people non-concerned with worship. The fact that most of the Gods in todays religions require you to acknowledge their existance is just the key used by the people who dreamed them up to keep the upper-hand. It works out beautifully for these people-tell everyone they have to do this or that to get into heaven, and surely they will follow.

Worshiping a God is essentially worshiping the man that created that God. This was that man's initial purpose of creating the God, to form a following and to gain control. If God were to exist do you honestly think he would be so egotistical that he would be concerned with proving to us he exists, or that he would be so concerned with whether or not we accept him as such?

JAGERBOY · 07-17-2007, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lilkj

If God were to exist do you honestly think he would be so egotistical that he would be concerned with proving to us he exists, or that he would be so concerned with whether or not we accept him as such?

No. But if he were, then he wouldn't be fit for worship other than out of fear.

Lilkj · 07-17-2007, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JAGERBOY

No. But if he were, then he wouldn't be fit for worship other than out of fear.

And even so, I don't see why the Christian God needs to have so much attention. He's probably the biggest sinner of all-he is FULL of pride.

Staggy73 · 07-17-2007, 10:08 AM

lilkj are you atheist or what religion are you? j/w

Lilkj · 07-17-2007, 10:09 AM

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=3422111

Staggy73 · 07-17-2007, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lilkj

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=3422111

i didnt read that i just read the part were you said your satanic but satanics dont believe in the devil or god (correct me if im wrong) so why would you put hail satan in your sig?