to the christians

[AKR]

the bitter, rude, lazy ones, to be specific.

15but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence;

16and keep a good conscience so that in the thing in which you are slandered, those who revile your good behavior in Christ will be put to shame.

there are VERY FEW christians who come in here, and are willing to defend their religion to all who question it, and do so with a respectful manner. if you are truely a christian, maybe you should actually follow your bible.

i am not defending the actions of those atheists who initiate personal insults, or insult religion for trolling's sake. i have no problem with those who insult a religion if it is done to make a point and spur an intelligent debate, and to show what they believe to be true (as i am one of these atheists). so don't come in here and whine about double standards.

also, even if i DID defend them, that does not excuse your actions, as your belief system is supposedly built on kindness and peace, and by acting otherwise, you show yourself to be hypocritical. furthermore, people question whether you actually believe the religion you stamp yourself with, as you appear to only use it for selfish reasons, and ignore some of your own rules. if you don't have enough faith in your religion to follow the rules, why should anyone else?

[Violator009]

Lol, why insult them and then ask them to answer your question? LOl wow

[AKR]

Originally Posted by Violator009

Lol, why insult them and then ask them to answer your question? LOl wow

what exactly are you refering to? and what does it have to do with these verses and how christians are told to act?

[CaveMan22]

Many times 'gods people' are the farthest from his will- see Israel in the old testament. However I always say you should not base your religion on the others who follow it; just because many christians are hypocritical does not mean that what they follow is untrue

[timbo81]

wow akr telling us how to live and act right, how quaint

[AKR]

Originally Posted by CaveMan22

just because many christians are hypocritical does not mean that what they follow is untrue

i never said that, but many people feel that a religion's validity is based on it's followers. whether or not someone telling you 2+2 = 4 is an assh*le has nothing to do with whether or not he's right. BUT, it DOES make sense that if someone is trying to convince you they're right, when they live like they're not, that people will not take them seriously.

[tuk22]

Originally Posted by AKR

the bitter, rude, lazy ones, to be specific.
there are VERY FEW christians who come in here, and are willing to defend their religion to all who question it, and do so with a respectful manner. if you are truely a christian, maybe you should actually follow your bible.

Are you aware of the many Christians who do not think the Bible contains some air-tight perfectly consistent theological message? Why is it that you have a problem with people picking and choosing what passages are meaningful to them?

Anyway, from what I have witnessed here, this place is extremely hostile to religionists. Very few atheists here debate theology seriously (with class and respect to there debating partners.)

Originally Posted by AKR

i am not defending the actions of those atheists who initiate personal insults, or insult religion for trolling's sake. i have no problem with those who insult a religion if it is done to make a point and spur an intelligent debate, and to show what they believe to be true (as i am one of these atheists). so don't come in here and whine about double standards.

So you say.

Originally Posted by AKR

also, even if i DID defend them, that does not excuse your actions, as your belief system is supposedly built on kindness and peace, and by acting otherwise, you show yourself to be hypocritical.

So? Seriously, humans are NOT capable of perfection.

Originally Posted by AKR

furthermore, people question whether you actually believe the religion you stamp yourself with, as you appear to only use it for selfish reasons, and ignore some of your own rules. if you don't have enough faith in your religion to follow the rules, why should anyone else?

Religion is a complicated subject that many atheists here wish to view in black/white terms.

If you truly want to debate against Christianity, you need to first tell us what version of it you are looking to criticize. Fundamentalism, perhaps? That is an easy target. All the evidence points to fundamentalism being a totally bankrupt theological assumption. What about liberal Christianity? Do you have a problem with it?

[AKR]

Originally Posted by timbo81

wow akr telling us how to live and act right, how quaint

thanks for proving my point.

[JuanDenver]

many forum atheists behave like attention starved children...so the attractiveness of intelligent discussion smells like rotting meat.

[RelentlessChaos]

Do you even know what those verses mean?

Originally Posted by AKR

there are VERY FEW christians who come in here, and are willing to defend their religion to all who question it, and do so with a respectful manner. if you are truely a christian, maybe you should actually follow your bible.

Who says they have to come here and defend thier beliefs. Sure it would be a good thing to come here and preach the word of God with love to everyone. But those verses are not implying "prove others wrong, when they preach badly about your religion, and the bible" Those verses are telling us to "give a reason for the hope we have" and every "Christian" should be able to tell a pagan(non-Christian) why they believe in God etc.....

Originally Posted by AKR

i am not defending the actions of those atheists who initiate personal insults, or insult religion for trolling's sake. i have no problem with those who insult a religion if it is done to make a point and spur an intelligent debate, and to show what they believe to be true (as i am one of these atheists). so don't come in here and whine about double standards

"i have no problem with those who insult a religion if it is done to make a pont.." you dont need to throw an insult at all to make a point. Ive given many points, and corrected many thoughts on the bible here, and an insult was never needed. Would you like people calling you names, and insulting your beliefs? Would you like for me to insult you like that in public? i dont know about you, but i would be hurt if someone did that to me in public, or a group discussing the bible etc......"dont come in here and whine about double standards".................

Originally Posted by AKR

also, even if i DID defend them, that does not excuse your actions, as your belief system is supposedly built on kindness and peace, and by acting otherwise, you show yourself to be hypocritical. furthermore, people question whether you actually believe the religion you stamp yourself with, as you appear to only use it for selfish reasons, and ignore some of your own rules. if you don't have enough faith in your religion to follow the rules, why should anyone else?

Dont be telling us how to act, and tell us how we should obey our own word. Judge yourself, and worry about yourself. Us Christians know how we should act, and sometimes we fail to obey the word, o make a mistake, and im sure a fellow Christian would point it out if i make one(atleast id like a PM) So dont worry about that. It seems some people here are just waiting for someone to make a mistake or fall short of what the bible says, and then your gonna point it out, and put them in the spotlight. I know what they bible says, and if a fellow believer makes a mistake ill poin it out. They should know thier mistake anyways. "All have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God" My job is to judge the people inside the church, and not outside. So i think us believers will help each other, and judge each other, and not you. You do the same. Worry about yourself. Do you have morals? what do you base them upon? "commen sense"? "do unto others as you would have them do unto you"? < ive heard some non-believers tell me this. This is said in the bible too. I think many people follow some rules of the bible. Otherwise, you have nothing to base your morals upon.

anyways, this thread fails hard.

[LatissimusDorsi]

I think Atheists have contributed a lot of intelligent threads.

[solidus2k3]

lawl Christians

[AKR]

Originally Posted by RelentlessChaos

Do you even know what those verses mean?

they seem pretty obvious. and it seems pretty obvious that i think i do. would you like to come up with an alternative meaning, in order to slip out of yet another problem facing christians?

Who says they have to come here and defend thier beliefs.

not i. but the bible says they should defend them when the situation arises.

Sure it would be a good thing to come here and preach the word of God with love to everyone. But those verses are not implying "prove others wrong, when they preach badly about your religion, and the bible" Those verses are telling us to "give a reason for the hope we have" and every "Christian" should be able to tell a pagan(non-Christian) why they believe in God etc.....

if you're not coming up with a rebuttle to why someone doubts or denies your religion, how exactly are you defending the "hope that is in you?" you're not.

regardless, one verse states to not act like a dick when someone speaks against you/your religion. so even if you ignore the part about defending your faith, it says to not be an ass about it.

"i have no problem with those who insult a religion if it is done to make a pont.." you dont need to throw an insult at all to make a point.

i don't think you get what i'm saying. when i say i think your god is an insecure, egotistical, sadistic myth, and then i explain why, you're going to be insulted. i don't see what's wrong with what i'm doing. i really feel that way about your god, and i'm saying so to make a point-not to insult you. there's a difference between calling you a d-bag, and telling you why i think your religion sucks.

[/QUOTE]
Ive given many points, and corrected many thoughts on the bible here, and an insult was never needed. Would you like people calling you names, and insulting your beliefs? Would you like for me to insult you like that in public? i dont know about you, but i would be hurt if someone did that to me in public, or a group discussing the bible etc......"dont come in here and whine about double standards"................. [/QUOTE]

once again, i never said, nor implied name calling. from my first post: "i am not defending the actions of those atheists who initiate personal insults."

i am very clear about it, so don't put words in my mouth.

Dont be telling us how to act, and tell us how we should obey our own word. Judge yourself, and worry about yourself. Us Christians know how we should act, and sometimes we fail to obey the word, o make a mistake, and im sure a fellow Christian would point it out if i make one(atleast id like a PM) So dont worry about that.

i have to call bull**** on that. i've seen christians rep other christians for ****ty, rude remarks. why are you sure that christians are pm'ing each other about nasty behavior? do you have proof? i don't even know which ones these would be, as most in here have ****ty attitudes, so who's doing this pm'ing? it's an open forum, so i'll point out the flaws in christians all i want. and there's a big difference between "struggling" with being a dick, and not even trying at all. from the behavior of most badly behaved christians in here, i'd say most aren't making any attempt, whatsoever.

It seems some people here are just waiting for someone to make a mistake or fall short of what the bible says, and then your gonna point it out, and put them in the spotlight.

well, i haven't pointed fingers in this thread, but i think it's good to remind christians that they're sinners by their own standards, and some sins, they do habitually without any plans to repent or stop. yet, some of them are complete hypocrites.

I know what they bible says, and if a fellow believer makes a mistake ill poin it out.

oh, so i should rely on YOU to keep christians in line? no thanks. something tells me you're not pm'ing all the badly behaved christians on here. that'd take up a lot of time. maybe if you started to publicly scold them in each thread, i'd actually believe you.

They should know thier mistake anyways. "All have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God"

by some of the attitudes in here, you'd think some of these christians were god's right hand.

My job is to judge the people inside the church, and not outside. So i think us believers will help each other, and judge each other, and not you.

you don't seem to be helping each other, and i'll judge you all i want. hell, i know the rules of the bible more than most christians. maybe if i was actually seeing active correction from you and other christians, i wouldn't have to make a post, but it's clear that you and others are failing miserably. of course, i don't expect this thread to stop them, but it will remind some people of what hypocrites some of the christians here are.

You do the same. Worry about yourself. Do you have morals?

i'll worry about who i want, thank you. i hope that moral question was rhetorical.

what do you base them upon? "commen sense"? "do unto others as you would have them do unto you"? < ive heard some non-believers tell me this. This is said in the bible too. I think many people follow some rules of the bible. Otherwise, you have nothing to base your morals upon.

i'm not sure what this has to do with anything, so i won't waste my time.

anyways, this thread fails hard.

you wish. 'm not sure how this thread fails at all. those verses are quite clear, and you're living in denial if you think i'm wrong. maybe it fails in the aspect that most christians will ignore the bible when it works against them and is used by an atheist, but in the aspect of me being right? incredibly successful.

[AKR]

Originally Posted by tuk22

Are you aware of the many Christians who do not think the Bible contains some air-tight perfectly consistent theological message? Why is it that you have a problem with people picking and choosing what passages are meaningful to them?

um, because what are they basing this off of? if you're just picking and choosing what you like and what you don't like, and discarding what doesn't make sense or offends you, you're making up your own religion. it's like looking at a person for a job, and doing a background check on them to decide if they're right for the position. you don't just pretend that they didn't rape someone, and circle the part where they helped out at the homeless shelter. you don't shread the page about their war crimes, and highlight their college degrees. you have to accept everything, or it's not real. if you see the bible as this book full of mistakes, then how do you know which are the mistakes and which are not? these kinds of people only choose what they WANT to believe; not what seems to have the most proof of validity. and how much can even be true in a book with mistakes? obviously, that god is not all powerful, or all knowing, or loving and fair.

furthermore, if someone choose to ignore the verses that tell them to defend their beliefs and be kind to others in the face of confrontation, i seriously question this persons motives. also, seeing as how i've been in this forum for years, i know most of the people with bad attitudes take the bible as a perfect, factual book. this is often what causes so many angry christians, because we're pointing out flaws and disgusting passages. i wouldn't expect you to know that since you only have 100+ posts.

Anyway, from what I have witnessed here, this place is extremely hostile to religionists. Very few atheists here debate theology seriously (with class and respect to there debating partners.)

we'll have to agree to disagree on that aspect.

So? Seriously, humans are NOT capable of perfection.

and how does this fact make it ok for christians to speak down to others about their morality? this fact actually shows how christians should not do such things, as they are imperfect themselves.

furthermore, there's a difference between struggling with being an assh*le, and not seeming to give a **** at all.

Religion is a complicated subject that many atheists here wish to view in black/white terms.

point?

If you truly want to debate against Christianity, you need to first tell us what version of it you are looking to criticize. Fundamentalism, perhaps? That is an easy target. All the evidence points to fundamentalism being a totally bankrupt theological assumption.

there are a lot of fundies here, but i'm not sure how that's relevant to the topic.

What about liberal Christianity? Do you have a problem with it?

once again, irrelevant.

[ElMariachi]

Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of your words. Proverbs 23:9

Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest you also be like unto him. Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit. Proverbs 26:4-5

The Bible instructs that by engaging with those who seek only confrontation, we reduce ourselves to their level. Jesus was mocked by many during his lifetime, yet never reduced himself to their level of mockery. The Bible instructs Christians to share their faith, the reasons for their hope and belief, to describe their belief itself, but not to engage fools in fruitless and idyll chatter that benefits no one and is only to the advantage of the fool.




Here is a more modern reference of what I mean.

Never argue with a fool, they will lower you to their level and then beat you with experience

We are called to testify to what we believe, not engage mockery with endless and useless debate.





Just saying...........



Anyways, that will be my only response in this thread as I've learned from experience that these things only profit those seeking an argument, especially with those using Scripture out of context, with a very poor understanding of it.....kind of like a guy claiming that Hamlet is actually an adventure story of a brave pig's journey through the British countryside.

[AKR]

Originally Posted by ElMariachi

The Bible instructs that by engaging with those who seek only confrontation, we reduce ourselves to their level. Jesus was mocked by many during his lifetime, yet never reduced himself to their level of mockery. The Bible instructs Christians to share their faith, the reasons for their hope and belief, to describe their belief itself, but not to engage fools in fruitless and idyll chatter that benefits no one and is only to the advantage of the fool.






Here is a more modern reference of what I mean.





We are called to testify to what we believe, not engage mockery with endless and useless debate.





Just saying...........

do you not realize that there are "on the fence" visitors in this forum? i don't debate with the same people about the same **** in cycles, simply to try to convince them. i know better. i debate for the onlookers, who don't post and/or haven't made up their mind. i would think christians would want to do the same.

regardless, as i have already stated, the second verse i posted still stands. christians are not to be nasty when someone insults them and/or their religion. there's no way around that verse. it's one thing to not comment at all; it's another thing just to enter a thread, leave a stupid, snide remark and/or insult and then leave. that's the exact kind of behavior that is being spoken against in the bible.

[AKR]

Originally Posted by ElMariachi

Anyways, that will be my only response in this thread as I've learned from experience that these things only profit those seeking an argument, especially with those using Scripture out of context, with a very poor understanding of it.....kind of like a guy claiming that Hamlet is actually an adventure story of a brave pig's journey through the British countryside.

i like how you edited your post, just to throw in a nice little insult. oh, and the standard "you don't understand the bible and use it out of context" stamp. funny how no one ever enters my thread and puts it in a context that changes the meaning i have stated.

[timbo81]

Originally Posted by AKR

regardless, as i have already stated, the second verse i posted still stands. christians are not to be nasty when someone insults them and/or their religion. there's no way around that verse. it's one thing to not comment at all; it's another thing just to enter a thread, leave a stupid, snide remark and/or insult and then leave. that's the exact kind of behavior that is being spoken against in the bible.

lolzors

[AKR]

Originally Posted by timbo81

lolzors

....ok

[timbo81]

stop taking this forum so seriously.

I don't know how you can judge someone or their whole way of life just from a post on the internet.

[IceDragon]

Originally Posted by timbo81

wow akr telling us how to live and act right, how quaint

Coming from a guy who'd slaughter his own family if his god told him to, that's a very ironic statement.

[timbo81]

Originally Posted by IceDragon

Coming from a guy who'd slaughter his own family if his god told him to, that's a very ironic statement.

you're just jealous because the voices talk to me

[IceDragon]

Originally Posted by timbo81

you're just jealous because the voices talk to me

At least I'm not a slave to them, and that's far more important.

[Nagalfar]

Originally Posted by AKR

the bitter, rude, lazy ones, to be specific.




there are VERY FEW christians who come in here, and are willing to defend their religion to all who question it, and do so with a respectful manner. if you are truely a christian, maybe you should actually follow your bible.

i am not defending the actions of those atheists who initiate personal insults, or insult religion for trolling's sake. i have no problem with those who insult a religion if it is done to make a point and spur an intelligent debate, and to show what they believe to be true (as i am one of these atheists). so don't come in here and whine about double standards.

also, even if i DID defend them, that does not excuse your actions, as your belief system is supposedly built on kindness and peace, and by acting otherwise, you show yourself to be hypocritical. furthermore, people question whether you actually believe the religion you stamp yourself with, as you appear to only use it for selfish reasons, and ignore some of your own rules. if you don't have enough faith in your religion to follow the rules, why should anyone else?

Hummm 2 different standards for people slinging crap. now that is something new..

[paolo59]

Is there a stupid twit loose on the boards tonight? hehehehe, Why do the nations rage and imagine a vain thing?" For something that "doesn't exist" there are many who seem to dedicate their lives to "dispel" a myth? And so young at that!!!!???? There seem to be many "wet behind the ears" atheists. It seems to be the "flavor of the day." Spit in the wind. Howl at the moon. Rant and rave at what your heart and soul craves! LMAO There's "proof in the pudding somewhere. A soul searches, even the soul of an "atheist." Keep posting. With every silly question, every "supposed" inconsistency, something, somehow, draws you folks like a moth to a flame!

[IceDragon]

Originally Posted by paolo59

Is there a stupid twit loose on the boards tonight? hehehehe, Why do the nations rage and imagine a vain thing?" For something that "doesn't exist" there are many who seem to dedicate their lives to "dispel" a myth? And so young at that!!!!???? There seem to be many "wet behind the ears" atheists. It seems to be the "flavor of the day." Spit in the wind. Howl at the moon. Rant and rave at what your heart and soul craves! LMAO There's "proof in the pudding somewhere. A soul searches, even the soul of an "atheist." Keep posting. With every silly question, every "supposed" inconsistency, something, somehow, draws you folks like a moth to a flame!

*pats paolo on the head*

There, there. Just take this little pill while the guys in white coats take you back to your padded room. It'll all be okay.













You talking about THEM ranting and raving? Talk about people in glass houses...

[paolo59]

Originally Posted by IceDragon

*pats paolo on the head*

There, there. Just take this little pill while the guys in white coats take you back to your padded room. It'll all be okay










You talking about THEM ranting and raving? Talk about people in glass houses...

I see a moth!

[IceDragon]

Originally Posted by paolo59

I see a moth!

Aren't your tranquillisers working yet, boy?

[tuk22]

Originally Posted by AKR

um, because what are they basing this off of? if you're just picking and choosing what you like and what you don't like, and discarding what doesn't make sense or offends you, you're making up your own religion. if you see the bible as this book full of mistakes, then how do you know which are the mistakes and which are not? these kinds of people only choose what they WANT to believe; not what seems to have the most proof of validity. and how much can even be true in a book with mistakes? obviously, (enter black/white thinking) that god is not all powerful, or all knowing, or loving and fair.

You have the same reasoning as a fundamentalist and a very narrow view of Christianity.

I see no reason why a Christian shouldn't incorporate scholarly knowledge into their Theology. The idea that a perfectly consistent theology can be created by using only the Bible goes against all the evidence we have, and you are here telling Christians they MUST have a consistent biblical theology (as if it is necessary) when a Christian isn't someone who agrees with a particular Christian theology; a Christian is anyone who identifies themselves with Jesus in one way or another.

The philosophical notion of a perfect being did not originate from the pages of the Bible. It was a concept formed sometime after the prophets. Ancient Israelites were henotheists and their God was a local and powerful God, but not an omni-being. So a mistake in the Bible in no way disproves the concept of an omni-being because it is inherently philosophical, not biblical.

Further, the idea that the Bible can be read as an instruction manual from God to his people is a fairly recent theological assumption that was used to combat Darwinism and higher biblical criticism in the early 1900's.

[Gruenburger]

The people saying there is no problem to picking and choosing disgust me. It is evident that most people who claim they follow a religion do so for selfish reasons. If (very low odds) your god is real, expect him to see through you.

Quote of the day:

"I do not feel obliged to believe that same God who endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect had intended for us to forgo their use."
-Galileo Galilei