How do you like your meat? Rare, medium or carcinogenic?

[NO HYPE]

It might be a good idea to refrain from chronically consuming well-done meat. Here's more....



"Fried beef has very high mutagenic activity. Its popularity suggests that this food may be the most important source of heterocyclic amines in the typical Western diet.

Most, but not all, of the mutagenic activity in fried beef can be accounted for by known heterocyclic amines. The single mutagen PhIP accounts for most of the combined mass of mutagens in fried beef cooked well-done.

The fat content and thickness of meat have little effect on mutagen content, whereas the method and extent of cooking have major effects. Frying, broiling, and barbecuing muscle meats produce more heterocyclic amines and mutagenic activity, whereas stewing, steaming, and poaching produce little or no mutagenic activity. Roasting and baking show variable responses.

Both cooking temperature and time can be manipulated to minimize the formation of mutagens. Increasing the frying temperature of ground beef from 200 to 250?C increases mutagenic activity about six- to sevenfold. Reducing cooking temperature and time can significantly lower the amounts of mutagens generated and subsequently consumed in the diet."

http://www.llnl.gov/str/FoodSection3.html



Dietary intake of heterocyclic amines, meat-derived mutagenic activity, and risk of colorectal adenomas.

In conclusion, we found an elevated risk of colorectal adenomas associated with high intake of certain HCAS: Further, mutagenic activity from cooked meat consumption, a measure that integrates all of the classes of mutagens, was strongly associated with risk and explained the excess risk with intake of well-done red meat.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en...&dopt=Abstract



Dietary mutagen exposure and risk of pancreatic cancer.

These data support the hypothesis that dietary mutagen exposure alone and in interaction with other factors contribute to the development of pancreatic cancer.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en...ubmed_RVDocSum



Meat intake and cooking techniques: associations with pancreatic cancer.

We conclude that grilled red meat intake is a risk factor for pancreatic cancer and that method of meat preparation in addition to total intake is important in assessing the effects of meat consumption in epidemiologic studies.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en...RVAbstractPlus



Cooked meat and risk of breast cancer--lifetime versus recent dietary intake.

These results support the accumulating evidence that consumption of meats cooked by methods that promote carcinogen formation may increase risk of postmenopausal breast cancer.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en...ubmed_RVDocSum



A prospective study of meat and meat mutagens and prostate cancer risk.

In conclusion, very well done meat was positively associated with prostate cancer risk.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en...ubmed_RVDocSum



Meat mutagens and risk of distal colon adenoma in a cohort of U.S. men.

In conclusion, higher consumption of mutagens from meats cooked at higher temperature and longer duration may be associated with higher risk of distal colon adenoma independent of overall meat intake. Because mutagens other than heterocyclic amines also contribute to MDM, our results suggest that mutagens other than heterocyclic amines in cooked meats may also play a role in increasing the risk of distal adenoma.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en...RVAbstractPlus




Now here's how it fits into the science section....




"Green tea polyphenols have been shown to be antimutagenic, lowering the formation of heterocyclic amines9 (formed during the cooking of meat and fish and proven to be mutagenic). They have also been shown to reduce the occurrence of chromosome aberrations during mutagen exposure"10.

9. Weisburger, J.H.et al. (1994). Prevention of heterocyclic amine formation by tea and tea polyphenols. Cancer Lett. 83 : 143-147.

10. Sasaki, Y.F. et al. (1993) The aclastogen-suppressing effects of green tea, Po-lei tea and Rooi bos tea in CHO cells and mice. Mutat. Res. 286 : 221-232.



Inhibitory effects of antioxidants on formation of heterocyclic amines.

It is important to search for effective antioxidants to suppress formation of mutagenic and carcinogenic heterocyclic amines (HCAs), like 2-amino-3,8-dimethylimidazo[4,5-f]quinoxaline (MeIQx) and 2-amino-1-methyl-6-phenylimidazo[4,5-b]pyridine (PhIP), because these HCAs are considered to be probable human carcinogens. The effects of various food-derived antioxidants on MeIQx formation were examined by their addition (0.2 mmol each) to mixtures of creatine (0.4 mmol), glycine (0.4 mmol) and glucose (0.2 mmol), and heating at 128 degreesC for 2 h. Glycine was replaced by l-phenylalanine in the case of PhIP formation. Among the 14 kinds of antioxidants tested, green tea catechins and the major component [(-)-epigallocatechin gallate], two flavonoids (luteolin and quercetin) and caffeic acid were found to clearly suppress the formation of both MeIQx and PhIP, being 3.2-75% of the level of the controls. These phenolic antioxidants also reduced the total mutagenicity of the heated mixtures. The results suggest that foodstuffs containing catechins, flavonoids and caffeic acid may suppress the formation of HCAs in cooked foods.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en...RVAbstractPlus



Antimutagenic Activity of Selenium-Enriched Green Tea Toward the Heterocyclic Amine 2-Amino-3- methylimidazo[4,5-f]quinoline

Both selenium and green tea have been reported to exhibit antigenotoxic and cancer chemopreventive properties. We compared the antimutagenic activities of regular green tea and selenium-enriched green tea obtained from Hubei Province, China, toward the heterocyclic amine, 2-amino-3-methylimidazo[4,5-f]quinoline (IQ) in the Salmonella assay. Selenium-enriched green tea obtained by foliar application of selenite exhibited concentration-dependent inhibition of IQ-induced mutagenesis in the presence of rat liver S9 and was significantly more effective than regular green tea tested under the same conditions. Analytical studies revealed no major differences in the polyphenol or caffeine content between regular green tea and selenium-enriched green tea, but the latter tea contained approximately 60-fold higher concentrations of selenium compared with regular green tea. The only soluble form of selenium was identified as selenite. The antimutagenic effects of certain individual tea constituents, such as epicatechin gallate and catechin, were enhanced by the addition of selenite to the Salmonella assay. Sodium selenite, sodium selenate, seleno-DL-cysteine, seleno-L-methionine, and L-Se-methylselenocysteine were not antimutagenic toward IQ when tested alone, but augmented significantly the inhibitory potency of green tea. The results suggested an enhancing ("coantimutagenic") effect of selenium in combination with green tea in vitro, but in vivo studies are needed to assess whether there is a synergistic effect of tea and selenium to protect against heterocyclic amine-induced mutagenesis and carcinogenesis.

http://www.ingentaconnect.com/conten...00002/art00008



Heterocyclic Amines: 2. Inhibitory Effects of Natural Extracts on the Formation of Polar and Nonpolar Heterocyclic Amines in Cooked Beef

The effects of natural extracts on the formation of polar (IQ, MeIQ, MeIQx, 4,8-DiMeIQx, and PhIP) and nonpolar (norharman, harman, and AαC) heterocyclic amines (HAs) were examined in ground beef cooked at 200 and 210?C for 20 min. In experiment 1, the formation of MeIQx was effectively reduced by 77%, 75%, and 69%, respectively, for 1.0% pine bark extract (Pycnogenol?), 1.0% Oleoresin rosemary (Herbalox?), and grape seed extract (ActiVinTM) at 200?C for 20 min. No 4,8-DiMeIQx was observed in the 1.0% ActiVin. When compared with the initial concentrations, glucose and creatine significantly decreased for all treatments and the control at 200?C after 20 min. In experiment 2, IQ was not formed in any treatment when beef was fried at 210?C for 10 min/side. The formation of MeIQx was reduced by 64% and 61% at 1.0% ActiVin and 1.0% Pycnogenol. Herbalox (1.0%) more effectively decreased the amount of nonpolar HAs than other treatments. No AαC and norharman were detected at 1.0 % Herbalox. Natural extracts, ActiVin, Pycnogenol, and Herbalox, effectively decreased the formation of polar and nonpolar HAs. The results provide valuable information to inhibit the formation of HAs in cooked meats.

http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi...2005.tb07171.x

[taz2006]

could you translate that in simple english plz?

[NO HYPE]

Originally Posted by taz2006

could you translate that in simple english plz?

Well-done meat contains cancer-causing agents, and polyphenol antioxidants may lessen their detrimental effects.

[in10city]

Originally Posted by taz2006

could you translate that in simple english plz?

A bit more easy on the brain... http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/f...ocyclic-amines

[will-work4ANDRO]

nice find No Hype, i guess i'll stick with having my meat cooked medium to medium rare.

[NO HYPE]

Originally Posted by will-work4ANDRO

nice find No Hype, i guess i'll stick with having my meat cooked medium to medium rare.

Thanks.... I don't think I'll give it up entirely though. I've gotta have some well-done meat from the barbecue once in a while.

[in10city]

Originally Posted by NO HYPE

Thanks.... I don't think I'll give it up entirely though. I've gotta have some well-done meat from the barbecue once in a while.

Surprised it took you this long to go after the carnivores

My familiy has a strong history of colon cancer... and for good or bad, right or wrong, this is one food item that I've removed for the most part from my diet for this very reason...

[NO HYPE]

Originally Posted by in10city

Surprised it took you this long to go after the carnivores

My familiy has a strong history of colon cancer... and for good or bad, right or wrong, this is one food item that I've removed for the most part from my diet for this very reason...

Yeah I've been aware of the carcinogenic "potential" for a while now, but I never honestly thought it could amount to much.... untill I found 33 pages of incriminating evidence at pubmed (WOW), confirming the likelihood of cancer-related health issues stemming from the chronic consumption of well-done meats.

[in10city]

Originally Posted by NO HYPE

Yeah I've been aware of the carcinogenic "potential" for a while now, but I never honestly thought it could amount to much.... untill I found 33 pages of incriminating evidence at pubmed (WOW), confirming the likelihood of cancer-related health issues stemming from the chronic consumption of well-done meats.

Not to mention that well-done / charred meat = less bioavailable food ... it's a zero sum game either way ...

[GeneGnomeX]

Microwaving is not good for antioxidant content, steam your veggies don't heat them in the microwave.

[NO HYPE]

Originally Posted by fitnecise

Microwaving is not good for antioxidant content, steam your veggies don't heat them in the microwave.

Agreed.

In addition, it looks as though creatinine content is greater in microwaved meat, when compared to conventionally cooked meat. I would assume that more creatinine represents less creatine. http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi...1981.tb04489.x

[lbarber4]

I only eat Grass fed beef from US Wellness Meats! Oh, medium-rare for me...

[DRP7]

Originally Posted by fitnecise

Microwaving is not good for antioxidant content, steam your veggies don't heat them in the microwave.

agreed!

I don't have any evidence for it, so take this with a grain of salt:
I used to warm up or to boil things in the microwave. and I really felt like crap. I could really feel how my energy level would drop after ingesting a meal that was warmed / cooked in the microwave.

since I sold my microwave I feel significantly better and I don't have this suckig feeling after a meal.

I don't have a clue what the microwave does with the foods, but my body tells me that it's not good.

[No_Excuses89]

Rare to Med-Rare for me. Still probably not the best choice when I get it still mooing.

[ab-swing asianbabe]

Does this apply to white meats? I have always cooked mine until well done, though not to the charred/black stage.

[GeneGnomeX]

Originally Posted by Dr.P

agreed!

I don't have any evidence for it, so take this with a grain of salt:
I used to warm up or to boil things in the microwave. and I really felt like crap. I could really feel how my energy level would drop after ingesting a meal that was warmed / cooked in the microwave.

since I sold my microwave I feel significantly better and I don't have this suckig feeling after a meal.

I don't have a clue what the microwave does with the foods, but my body tells me that it's not good.

I'm doing a (as detailed as I can) report on modern processing and nutrient content in the next 4 weeks, i'm also going to try to include a section on modern cooking techniques and changes that has too. I will add things to this thread when I find them and post up the full thing when i'm finished.

[DRP7]

Originally Posted by fitnecise

I'm doing a (as detailed as I can) report on modern processing and nutrient content in the next 4 weeks, i'm also going to try to include a section on modern cooking techniques and changes that has too. I will add things to this thread when I find them and post up the full thing when i'm finished.

cool man! looking forward. please shoot me a pm when you have posted it so I won't miss it.

[NO HYPE]

Originally Posted by Dr.P

cool man! looking forward. please shoot me a pm when you have posted it so I won't miss it.

Me too.

[dsade]

Originally Posted by asianbabe

Does this apply to white meats? I have always cooked mine until well done, though not to the charred/black stage.

Racist.

[dsade]

Originally Posted by fitnecise

I'm doing a (as detailed as I can) report on modern processing and nutrient content in the next 4 weeks, i'm also going to try to include a section on modern cooking techniques and changes that has too. I will add things to this thread when I find them and post up the full thing when i'm finished.

This would be a welcome article to the BB industry, IMO, since grilled meats are so popular.

Try to tweak your report so that we can simply publish here , at m&m, or M&F

[Beejis60]

Originally Posted by asianbabe

Does this apply to white meats? I have always cooked mine until well done, though not to the charred/black stage.

Doubtful, white meats only need to reach a temperature of 160F (71.1C) to be considered cooked and all worms, bacteria, and such are supposedly killed.

[GeneGnomeX]

Originally Posted by dsade

This would be a welcome article to the BB industry, IMO, since grilled meats are so popular.

Try to tweak your report so that we can simply publish here , at m&m, or M&F

I was considering approaching M&M with it, will decide after this week.

[ab-swing asianbabe]

Originally Posted by fitnecise

I'm doing a (as detailed as I can) report on modern processing and nutrient content in the next 4 weeks, i'm also going to try to include a section on modern cooking techniques and changes that has too. I will add things to this thread when I find them and post up the full thing when i'm finished.

Looking forward to this masterpiece, I hope to get first dibs?

[TJ_Strong]

I like it beat.

[GeneGnomeX]

Originally Posted by asianbabe

Looking forward to this masterpiece, I hope to get first dibs?

If you're good

Now, i'll digress so as not to further detract from this thread.

[taz2006]

how about curry meat? does anyone know if cooking curry meat creates high HCA as well?

[Jules Verne]

I like all my meat cooked as little as possible.

For steaks, game etc.., assuming it is a well-cut and properly hung, it should be dark and a little smelly before I blast it for a minute or two on each side. Sure the outside is probably not too good for you, but the inside is then basically raw, soft, juicy and actually has a taste to it.

If I buy steak from a grocery store I usually leave it out for several days for it to brown before cooking it. I really can't understand how that bright red 'stuff' looks appealing to anyone, but I guess it is what people are used to - they think beef should look 'fresh' to taste good. Yuck!

There was a nice story a few years ago about a French chef in a top class restaurant who told a customer to get out of his restaurant and never come back, because the customer asked for his steak well done.

[Moshoodzilla]

Well done, no blood.
Not burnt at all.
good stuff.

[NO HYPE]

Originally Posted by Jules Verne

There was a nice story a few years ago about a French chef in a top class restaurant who told a customer to get out of his restaurant and never come back, because the customer asked for his steak well done.

^^^^ Classic. ^^^^

[grapemaster]

Originally Posted by Jules Verne

I like all my meat cooked as little as possible.

For steaks, game etc.., assuming it is a well-cut and properly hung, it should be dark and a little smelly before I blast it for a minute or two on each side. Sure the outside is probably not too good for you, but the inside is then basically raw, soft, juicy and actually has a taste to it.

If I buy steak from a grocery store I usually leave it out for several days for it to brown before cooking it. I really can't understand how that bright red 'stuff' looks appealing to anyone, but I guess it is what people are used to - they think beef should look 'fresh' to taste good. Yuck!

There was a nice story a few years ago about a French chef in a top class restaurant who told a customer to get out of his restaurant and never come back, because the customer asked for his steak well done.

Yeah I get stuff from the "quick sale" section all the time and my roommates look at me funny for it, uhhh its better steak!