A Reminder

[SYRIANKID]

Few people would disagree that God is absolute Truth, Goodness, Justice, Harmony, Love, and Beauty.

But mankind is not unique in holding these notions of God. Millions of people, professing these same general beliefs, practice and believe in hundreds of contradicting values and laws.

There is only one God. He is the Creator and therefore it is He who reveals Himself to His creation and defines Himself by attributes He chooses. It is He who outlines how He wishes to be worshiped. But most importantly, God is Truth, speaks only Truth, and loves Truth. Therefore, God has revealed a single set of non-contradicting revelations to mankind since the creation of Adam (pbuh). We rationally know that there can only really be one true account of any historical event; all others are false.

On the Day of Reckoning, we will all meet our Lord and account for our beliefs and deeds, everything we said and did and saw and participated in. God will ask us why we believed what we believed and why we ignored the clear Signs He revealed. We will either have believed and practiced Truth or have been misguided; there is no third option.

The Truth will testify either for us or against us.

God is knowable through the heart, but God is understood through the revelations He Himself sends to us. Otherwise mankind will use the irrational heart to conjecture using their own desire what God is and is not and what He does or does not want. This is why there are thousands of "religions" today but only one God.

We've identified that God is absolute Truth, but the real question is, what is this absolute Truth in terms of Spiritual Knowledge of the attributes of God, the Historical events surrounding His Prophets, and most importantly His revelation and His Laws?

The answers to these questions cannot simply be felt but must be revealed directly by the Creator. So again I ask, how do you know what you know and why do you believe what you believe? What is the evidence for halting at the phrase "God is absolute Truth, Goodness, Justice, Harmony, Love, and Beauty."

Do not be decieved by this passing world.

God is the only reality and Heaven and Hell are real creations of His.

To Him will we all return and God will judge between us all.

[Twiggy316225]

that is what you believe, i am an athiest.
if u believe in god than god can't speak. the metatron is the voice of god.

[dave22]

A little over 2,000 years ago, people believed in Multiple Gods. Who's to say who is right, or wrong. Look at the Hindus, they believe in reincarnation. Who are you or anyone else, to tell them what to believe in??

[Bakira]

Syriankid, you are nothing but a victim of geography. If you were born in Iraq, you would feel the exact same way about Islam.

Also, God made me an Atheist. Who are you to question his judgement?

[gluon999]

It is this blind faith in religion that drives people to commit religious hate crimes. You are free to believe in your religion/God or lack thereof, but please don't try to convert others.

[SYRIANKID]

Originally Posted by dave22

A little over 2,000 years ago, people believed in Multiple Gods. Who's to say who is right, or wrong. Look at the Hindus, they believe in reincarnation. Who are you or anyone else, to tell them what to believe in??

Always ask for evidence. What proof is there that there are multiple gods? Do these people have some miraculous and authentically transmitted revelation from God to verify their claims, or is this just fantasy?

I myself am not worthy of telling anyone what is right and wrong, only God can do that. That's why we have to look for evidence for what God has said is Truth. We therefore search for authentic and miraculous Scripture.

[SYRIANKID]

Originally Posted by Bakira

Syriankid, you are nothing but a victim of geography. If you were born in Iraq, you would feel the exact same way about Islam.

That's not true, God tests everyone so that they are forced to choose their faith by free-will, not so they are born into it in the slightest.

Do men think that they will be left alone on saying, "We believe", and that they will not be tested?

Lo! We tested those who were before you. Thus God knoweth those who are sincere, and knoweth those who feign. (Qur'an 29:2-3)

Also, God made me an Atheist. Who are you to question his judgement?

God did not make you an atheist. You are now choosing to be an atheist. Your life is neither a function of chaotic free will OR cast-iron predestination. You are making a conscious choice NOW to believe what you believe.

So let me ask you, what is preventing you from believing? Do you sincerely want to be guided or are you satisfied with disbelief?

[dave22]

Islam, Judasim, Christianity, Shintoism, Bhudaism, Hinduism, Roman Gods, Greek Gods, Nordic Gods, spirits, athiesim, who are you to say what is right and what is wrong??

[SYRIANKID]

Originally Posted by dave22

Islam, Judasim, Christianity, Shintoism, Bhudaism, Hinduism, Roman Gods, Greek Gods, Nordic Gods, spirits, athiesim, who are you to say what is right and what is wrong??

Yes, everyone has a claim, but who has the evidence that their Truth was revealed by God?

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=329011

Those who reject (Truth), among the People of the Book and among the Polytheists, were not going to depart (from their ways) until there should come to them Clear Evidence, -

An apostle from God, rehearsing scriptures kept pure and holy:

Wherein are laws (or decrees) right and straight.

Nor did the People of the Book make schisms, until after there came to them Clear Evidence. (Qur'an 98:1-4)

[SYRIANKID]

The revelation of the Book is from God the Exalted in Power, Full of Wisdom.

Such are the Signs of God, which We rehearse to thee in Truth; then in what exposition will they believe after (rejecting) God and His Signs?

Woe unto each sinful liar,

Who heareth the revelations of God recited unto him, and then continueth in pride as though he heard them not. Give him tidings of a painful doom.

And when he learns something of Our Signs, he takes them in jest: for such there will be a humiliating Penalty. (Qur'an 45:2,6-9)

[BigKazWSM747]

Originally Posted by SYRIANKID

That's not true, God tests everyone so that they are forced to choose their faith by free-will, not so they are born into it in the slightest.

So your going to deny the enviroment you grow up in has any effect on how you turn out as an adult? The behaviorists would have a field day with that one. And the cognitive psychologists (and biological ones) could definitely raise some sharp criticisms to that blank slate that seems lurking under there.

[bts327]

Originally Posted by SYRIANKID

Always ask for evidence. What proof is there that there are multiple gods? Do these people have some miraculous and authentically transmitted revelation from God to verify their claims, or is this just fantasy?

I usually refrain from these threads of so-called religious intention because I find them rather pointless and without meaning; a wasteland of superficial spiel and insidious purpose. I'm sure you mean well, but good intentions mean zip in the game of life.

What "proof" is there of your "fantasy"? Do you "have some miraculous and authentically transmitted revelation from God" to verify your claims?

Surely you have your books and your dogma, as I'm sure they did as well.

On "god", etc:
-----
The thing might be there, it may very well exist, I would strongly argue with the whole of my being that it does if I could only find the words that truly did it justice, but trying to explain it in a way which can be known to the human mind is to steal its very essence and bottle it away into the confines of preconcieved expectation and the decay of memory, and so it is no more but a thing of imagination, something to cling to in order to ensure self continuance.

Perhaps reality is exactly as you describe it to be, but I personally believe it to be far more complex and beautiful than what can be deduced into any book or series of words. Certainly there exist words which may aid to better our daily lives and to point us toward the path of justice, but there are no words for the ever-changing tides of the timeless creation, it is surely a sight which must be beheld firsthand to even begin to appreciate.
.
.
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[SYRIANKID]

Originally Posted by BigKazWSM747

So your going to deny the enviroment you grow up in has any effect on how you turn out as an adult? The behaviorists would have a field day with that one. And the cognitive psychologists (and biological ones) could definitely raise some sharp criticisms to that blank slate that seems lurking under there.

No, I don't deny that your immediate environment influences how you think and act. This is why religious people like to surround themselves with religious people.

What I'm saying is that, regardless of where you live or grew up, there will come a point in your life when God sends the Message to you through someone. You will be tested and tried on whether or not you accepted it or ignored it and why you failed to pursue more knowledge on it, among other things. You either use this to get closer to God and Truth, or Satan drags you farther down into misguidance.

The choices you make during your trial are what lead you aright or astray.

[SYRIANKID]

Originally Posted by bts327

What "proof" is there of your "fantasy"? Do you "have some miraculous and authentically transmitted revelation from God" to verify your claims?

Yes, see the thread entitled "What distinguishes the Qur'an from other "religious" Scripture"

[bts327]

Originally Posted by SYRIANKID

No, I don't deny that your immediate environment influences how you think and act. This is why religious people like to surround themselves with religious people.

What I'm saying is that, regardless of where you live or grew up, there will come a point in your life when God sends the Message to you through someone. You will be tested and tried on whether or not you accepted it or ignored it and why you failed to pursue more knowledge on it, among other things. You either use this to get closer to God and Truth, or Satan drags you farther down into misguidance.

The choices you make during your trial are what lead you aright or astray.

Your missing the subtleties of this whole environmental inquisiton:

The very belief you maintain that "regardless of where you live or grew up, there will come a point in your life when God sends the Message to you through someone..." exists solely because of culturally imposed assimilation and conditoning. You must have aquired this stance from some place, right? Where else would you have absorbed this position but in your past relations with environmental stimuli?

[bts327]

Originally Posted by SYRIANKID

Yes, see the thread entitled "What distinguishes the Qur'an from other "religious" Scripture"

I'm sure you present some interesting positions. Unfortunately I'd rather not sift through the girth of ignorance which routinely plagues threads of that sort in order to derive those positions.

Perhaps you could post a cliffs notes version here, or not, it's all the same to me.

[SYRIANKID]

Originally Posted by bts327

I'm sure you present some interesting positions. Unfortunately I'd rather not sift through the girth of ignorance which routinely plagues threads of that sort in order to derive those positions.

Perhaps you could post a cliffs notes version here, or not, it's all the same to me.

Oh ok, I just meant look at the first post in that thread:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=329011

[BigKazWSM747]

Originally Posted by SYRIANKID

No, I don't deny that your immediate environment influences how you think and act. This is why religious people like to surround themselves with religious people.

What I'm saying is that, regardless of where you live or grew up, there will come a point in your life when God sends the Message to you through someone. You will be tested and tried on whether or not you accepted it or ignored it and why you failed to pursue more knowledge on it, among other things. You either use this to get closer to God and Truth, or Satan drags you farther down into misguidance.

The choices you make during your trial are what lead you aright or astray.

There is still a lot of the ghost in the machine there...and well that whole conception of the self as some mystical being being implanted in a body is practically dead. The brain's mysteries are beginning to unravel and we are starting to understand how the mind works.

So the "truth of God" has to be either an innate capacity formed in the mind of all humans (which is extremely far fetched considering how many scoundrels there are in the world) or it has to be some capacity which is awakened and realized when it submits to its disposition.

Either way it's not looking favorable for your theology based upon anyone's ability to choose to convert, because even if there are a fair number autonomous individuals there are certainly many which are not.

[SYRIANKID]

Originally Posted by BigKazWSM747

There is still a lot of the ghost in the machine there...and well that whole conception of the self as some mystical being being implanted in a body is practically dead. The brain's mysteries are beginning to unravel and we are starting to understand how the mind works.

So the "truth of God" has to be either an innate capacity formed in the mind of all humans (which is extremely far fetched considering how many scoundrels there are in the world) or it has to be some capacity which is awakened and realized when it submits to its disposition.

Either way it's not looking favorable for your theology based upon anyone's ability to choose to convert, because even if there are a fair number autonomous individuals there are certainly many which are not.

Philosophers toss and turn, wrythe with their tongues, duck and dodge, and claim that they are products of their environment, predestined to be exactly as they are.

The Truth of the matter is, everyone is making a conscious and voluntary effort right now to believe what they believe or to not inquire about Truth.

It's very simple so let's cut out all the evasive wordplay and semantic jousting. One either believes in God because one sincerely supplicated for guidance and rationally considered the arguments for the existence of God, or one didn't.

Either way, the choice is made every single second of life.

[ratmonkey]

Originally Posted by SYRIANKID

Philosophers toss and turn, wrythe with their tongues, duck and dodge, and claim that they are products of their environment, predestined to be exactly as they are.

The Truth of the matter is, everyone is making a conscious and voluntary effort right now to believe what they believe or to not inquire about Truth.

It's very simple so let's cut out all the evasive wordplay and semantic jousting. One either believes in God because one sincerely supplicated for guidance and rationally considered the arguments for the existence of God, or one didn't.

Either way, the choice is made every single second of life.

the choices you make are indeed influenced and contributed to by your upbringing and environment. you can go in circles on this all day, the fact of the matter is that even though you feel you are argueing against the point of environmental influence you are indeed prooving it's existence.

and just to get your panties even further up your ass...
there is no universal truth, everyone sees the world through the stained glass of their own perceptions. your truth is not my truth, is not bigkaz's truth, is not your neighbor's truth. though we may live our lives similarly in our social conduct, or we may not, that does not mean we see everything in the same light.
your light is overshadowed and tempered by your fervent religious beliefs. if there was any way you could forget about your cult you'd see the world much differently than you do now i suspect.

[SYRIANKID]

Originally Posted by ratmonkey

the choices you make are indeed influenced and contributed to by your upbringing and environment. you can go in circles on this all day, the fact of the matter is that even though you feel you are argueing against the point of environmental influence you are indeed prooving it's existence.

That's not true at all. Just as you and I are voluntary choosing to type these messages, you are also choosing to believe or disbelieve. You can't nestle the "my environment makes me do everything I'm doing right now" argument into everything because you are consciously making a choice to do, say, and believe what you do.

The proof of this is that people, remaining in the same environment, drastically change their ideologies based on new information they CHOOSE to read but which was ALWAYS present and available in the same environment. Environment hasn't changed, but the person has.

everyone sees the world through the stained glass of their own perceptions. your truth is not my truth, is not bigkaz's truth, is not your neighbor's truth.

Nobody disagrees with this. Everyone has their own OPINION of what Truth is. Truth is subjective when it is based on people's perceptions.

That's why Truth can only come from authentic revelations, rationally proven to come from none other than God. People can either accept this or reject it, but not alter it or corrupt it with their own ideas of Truth.

[ratmonkey]

Originally Posted by SYRIANKID

That's why Truth can only come from authentic revelations, rationally proven to come from none other than God. People can either accept this or reject it, but not alter it or corrupt it with their own ideas of Truth.

but how do you proove something that is by definition intangible and unproovable?

God is a logical loop that can never be prooven true. that is why it is called faith and not fact.

[dave22]

There's about a billion muslims out there, maybe a little over a billion christians out there as well. Jews, what like 20 million or something??

So you're saying that the rest of the world's population, that doesn't believe in God, they're going to burn, just because they don't believe??

[SYRIANKID]

Originally Posted by ratmonkey

but how do you proove something that is by definition intangible and unproovable?

God is a logical loop that can never be prooven true. that is why it is called faith and not fact.

You're so correct about this I sometimes wonder where we disagree, so pay attention carefully:

Logic, human intellect, these tools are too weak to comprihend and imagine and conjecture God as He truly is, without His help through revelation.

You give people a million years, they'll forever disagree about what God is and what He wants.

That's why God HAS to send a Message and an Interpretor. The Message is RATIONALLY provable to be from none other than God. After which, the human accepts all that it contains. At this point, one learns what God is and what He wants from God's own descriptions of Himself through this revelation, and the human intellect is completely prevented from having to conjecture about such facts.

[dave22]

Anyone ever see "The Stand??"

I liked the quote from that movie.

The deaf and mute guy doesn't believe in God.

And the old black grandma say's. "That's okay, because God believes in you."

If there is a god, and if he or she does exist, I don't believe that he would be smiteful. Why would he take a good person who contributes to charity, and led a good life, and send him to hell just because he or she doesn't believe??

[SYRIANKID]

Originally Posted by dave22

So you're saying that the rest of the world's population, that doesn't believe in God, they're going to burn, just because they don't believe??

Going to Hell for eternity is WAY TOO complex a judgement to reduce it to "if you're not a Muslim, you're going to Hell forever"

If that was true, you wouldn't need God to judge mankind, but you DO need God to judge, which involves peering deep into the human heart and history. So don't make it so clean cut

[SYRIANKID]

[QUOTE=dave22]

If there is a god, and if he or she does exist, I don't believe that he would be smiteful. Why would he take a good person who contributes to charity, and led a good life, and send him to hell just because he or she doesn't believe??

Because God didn't ask you to feed people and be a good person for your own sake. God doesn't need you to help HIS creations whom HE sustains (and you for that matter) in the first place.

God wants of you exactly what He tells you. He wants you to live your life according to His Word and do EVERYTHING good that you do for His sake only.

If you do a good deed for something other than God, then go reclaim it from that thing, whether it be your own self-satisfaction, humanity, pity, for the eyes of others etc...

You were only created for one purpose. Not to take care of things God is taking care of and doesn't even need you to help with, but rather, to obey God and to USE such needy people and things as means FOR YOURSELF to grow closer to God. Do you see the difference?

God PERMITS you to help others such that you gain merit with God by dedicating your life to Him alone. If you do it for other than God, your deeds are wasted. If you don't do it, you've oppressed yourself alone, because God will help them by a billion other means and people besides you, and you've foregone your chance. God is self-sufficient, he neither gains from your worship nor loses anything from your disbelief.

However, He offers you eternal Paradise simply to dedicate all your acts and beliefs to Him alone. And if you reject this offer, then you've only hurt yourself and noone else. The poor will get their money. The needy will be clothed. The animals will be fed. All through other means who accepted the chance to do these things for God alone. Only you are left in the lurch when you disbelieve.

[Metal Mikey]

I believe judgement day is a nuclear bomb. The genie's out of the bottle and someday some crazy, unstable f*ck of a leader will use one which will escalate into worldwide nuclear winter.

Place your bets.
Who do YOU think is God now?
A) Osama Bin-Laden
B) Ariel Sharon
C) Grand Ayatollah Ali Khamenei
D) Pervez Musharraf
E) Abdul Kalam
F) Kim Jong-Il
G) George W. Bush

[BigZeke]

Originally Posted by Metal Mikey

I believe judgement day is a nuclear bomb. The genie's out of the bottle and someday some crazy, unstable f*ck of a leader will use one which will escalate into worldwide nuclear winter.

Place your bets.
Who do YOU think is God now?
A) Osama Bin-Laden
B) Ariel Sharon
C) Grand Ayatollah Ali Khamenei
D) Pervez Musharraf
E) Abdul Kalam
F) Kim Jong-Il
G) George W. Bush

I'll take H) None of the Above

[dave22]

Originally Posted by SYRIANKID

Because God didn't ask you to feed people and be a good person for your own sake. God doesn't need you to help HIS creations whom HE sustains (and you for that matter) in the first place.

God wants of you exactly what He tells you. He wants you to live your life according to His Word and do EVERYTHING good that you do for His sake only.

If you do a good deed for something other than God, then go reclaim it from that thing, whether it be your own self-satisfaction, humanity, pity, for the eyes of others etc...

You were only created for one purpose. Not to take care of things God is taking care of and doesn't even need you to help with, but rather, to obey God and to USE such needy people and things as means FOR YOURSELF to grow closer to God. Do you see the difference?

God PERMITS you to help others such that you gain merit with God by dedicating your life to Him alone. If you do it for other than God, your deeds are wasted. If you don't do it, you've oppressed yourself alone, because God will help them by a billion other means and people besides you, and you've foregone your chance. God is self-sufficient, he neither gains from your worship nor loses anything from your disbelief.

However, He offers you eternal Paradise simply to dedicate all your acts and beliefs to Him alone. And if you reject this offer, then you've only hurt yourself and noone else. The poor will get their money. The needy will be clothed. The animals will be fed. All through other means who accepted the chance to do these things for God alone. Only you are left in the lurch when you disbelieve.

What's wrong with trying to make the world a better place??
You're a muslim, aren't you supposed to contribute to charity?? Isn't it like a rule or something??

You're majoring in engineering. When you're done with that, and you get your career you'll be making the world a better place with your skills.

A leader of a country, is supposed to do all he or she can to make their country a better place. They're supposed to do everything they can for the people under them, not because of god, but because it's their responsibilty to.

You say that God helps starving people one way or another, but that's not true. A woman who is raped, a man who is tortured, how does god help either of those??