why is wrong to criticize a general during a time of war

[premed lifter]

tony snow just ripped into sen. reid for reids comments about general pace to some bloggers. Reid essentially called him a clueless hack for the pres. Snow says its a horrible thing to criticize a general during a time of war? WTF is that? I say there isn't a better time to call a clueless general out than during a time of war. I'm not saying pace is clueless or isn't, but how is calling out a general during wartime out of bounds?

Fill me in. Thanks.

[paolo59]

Senator Reid doesn't know his ass from a hole in the wall. He would prostitute his mother on any corner of Las Vegas if he thought he could get a couple of votes! The, I can't say "man" he's somewhat less than that, the scum represents all that is lacking in the country today. I can guarantee you that Nevada will have a new Senator when his term is up.

[Fidelis]

Originally Posted by paolo59

Senator Reid doesn't know his ass from a hole in the wall. He would prostitute his mother on any corner of Las Vegas if he thought he could get a couple of votes! The, I can't say "man" he's somewhat less than that, the scum represents all that is lacking in the country today. I can guarantee you that Nevada will have a new Senator when his term is up.

You didn't address the topic of the thread at all. You're not even from Nevada--you can't guarantee ****.

I don't think there's any problem with criticizing anybody, whether we're in war or not. This is a free, democratic republic and I believe that Reid is reflecting the views of many of his constituents in Nevada. That is his job, after all.

[paolo59]

Originally Posted by Fidelis

You didn't address the topic of the thread at all. You're not even from Nevada--you can't guarantee ****.

I don't think there's any problem with criticizing anybody, whether we're in war or not. This is a free, democratic republic and I believe that Reid is reflecting the views of many of his constituents in Nevada. That is his job, after all.

LOL Senator Reid is the Tokyo Rose of the Democratic party. He is an embarrassment to his party, and if it weren't full of political whores, he would be denounced. Reid will never again sit in the position of Senator from the state of Nevada. He will officiate over a "do nothing" senate, then retire to his "ill gotten gains" in Nevada. He will never be prosecuted, believe me, but he is as dirty as the day is long. He is everything that is "less" than an American. He should be run out of Washington on a rail, tarred and feathered. He is what we call in Texas; "scum of the earth!" He is a political trollop, and that is kind. I hear the name and spit!

[US_Ranger]

Originally Posted by premed lifter

tony snow just ripped into sen. reid for reids comments about general pace to some bloggers. Reid essentially called him a clueless hack for the pres. Snow says its a horrible thing to criticize a general during a time of war? WTF is that? I say there isn't a better time to call a clueless general out than during a time of war. I'm not saying pace is clueless or isn't, but how is calling out a general during wartime out of bounds?

Fill me in. Thanks.

It's wrong because idiots like Reid pop off at the mouth about things they have no clue about, therefore causing a rift in morale, leadership, etc, all in the name of extra votes.

What makes Reid the expert at criticism of generals during a war time? That's like me heading up to a press conference and ripping on a general. Who the **** cares what I think? All it does is cause problems. Leave public criticism to the experts in these kinds of cases.

[Fidelis]

Originally Posted by paolo59

LOL Senator Reid is the Tokyo Rose of the Democratic party. He is an embarrassment to his party, and if it weren't full of political whores, he would be denounced. Reid will never again sit in the position of Senator from the state of Nevada. He will officiate over a "do nothing" senate, then retire to his "ill gotten gains" in Nevada. He will never be prosecuted, believe me, but he is as dirty as the day is long. He is everything that is "less" than an American. He should be run out of Washington on a rail, tarred and feathered. He is what we call in Texas; "scum of the earth!" He is a political trollop, and that is kind. I hear the name and spit!

Thanks for the rant but you haven't actually said why you think any of this. You still haven't contributed anything to this discussion (insults don't really count). It would be much more helpful if you explained your reasoning.

Originally Posted by US_Ranger

It's wrong because idiots like Reid pop off at the mouth about things they have no clue about, therefore causing a rift in morale, leadership, etc, all in the name of extra votes.

What makes Reid the expert at criticism of generals during a war time? That's like me heading up to a press conference and ripping on a general. Who the **** cares what I think? All it does is cause problems. Leave public criticism to the experts in these kinds of cases.

Who in the public is an expert in these kinds of cases?

[US_Ranger]

Originally Posted by Fidelis

Thanks for the rant but you haven't actually said why you think any of this. You still haven't contributed anything to this discussion (insults don't really count). It would be much more helpful if you explained your reasoning.

Who in the public is an expert in these kinds of cases?

Maybe a panel of experts that have the job of dealing with the leadership during the war? Groups like the 9/11 commission research 9/11, groups like the Iraq study group research Iraq, etc etc. If Reid cares sooooo much about the plight of the American troops, the Iraqi people, etc why didn't he start a commission or point out to a commission that already exists about what he thinks. Oh that's right, he's taking the bitch way and going for votes at the expense of morale and common sense.

[KRANE]

Originally Posted by Fidelis

Thanks for the rant but you haven't actually said why you think any of this. You still haven't contributed anything to this discussion

Ok, I'll give it a try. Because it undermine his ability to be a leader. Without the assumption that the man leading you is of sound mind, a unit would go into chaos and anarchy. Something that's especially important during times of war.

By the way, for those in the military the freedom of speech right, doesn't apply

[premed lifter]

Originally Posted by US_Ranger

Maybe a panel of experts that have the job of dealing with the leadership during the war? Groups like the 9/11 commission research 9/11, groups like the Iraq study group research Iraq, etc etc. If Reid cares sooooo much about the plight of the American troops, the Iraqi people, etc why didn't he start a commission or point out to a commission that already exists about what he thinks. Oh that's right, he's taking the bitch way and going for votes at the expense of morale and common sense.

I don't like reid, but to play devils advocate, he advocated RELENTLESSLY that the pres. follow the advice of the 9/11 commission, which the pres largely ignored.

[paolo59]

Originally Posted by Fidelis

Thanks for the rant but you haven't actually said why you think any of this. You still haven't contributed anything to this discussion (insults don't really count). It would be much more helpful if you explained your reasoning.

Who in the public is an expert in these kinds of cases?

If you weren't from Arkansas, I would take the time to explain my opinion. In reality, there is no need for any explanation. For a United States Senator to say the **** that he has stated is inexcusable. The Senator from Nevada is a political whore, plain and simple.

[US_Ranger]

Originally Posted by premed lifter

I don't like reid, but to play devils advocate, he advocated RELENTLESSLY that the pres. follow the advice of the 9/11 commission, which the pres largely ignored.

I can answer that as well but you might consider it bias of me. He advocates relentlessly because it makes him look like the good guy (read : MORE VOTES) so there is no reason not to do it. Pretty much doing the opposite of what George Bush does draws votes.

It's not just Reid either, a lot of politicians do it. I can't stand most of them. Reid is especially irritating though.

[Fidelis]

Originally Posted by paolo59

If you weren't from Arkansas, I would take the time to explain my opinion. In reality, there is no need for any explanation. For a United States Senator to say the **** that he has stated is inexcusable. The Senator from Nevada is a political whore, plain and simple.

That's big of you to attack the state that I'm from. How is that any different from attacking my race or nationality? Unfortunately I can't neg you again today.

Other posters took the time to explain their reasoning, but you still haven't. I don't think I've ever seen you contribute anything worthwhile to this forum. In fact, all I ever see you post are insults and rants.

[AKR]

Originally Posted by paolo59

LOL Senator Reid is the Tokyo Rose of the Democratic party. He is an embarrassment to his party, and if it weren't full of political whores, he would be denounced. Reid will never again sit in the position of Senator from the state of Nevada. He will officiate over a "do nothing" senate, then retire to his "ill gotten gains" in Nevada. He will never be prosecuted, believe me, but he is as dirty as the day is long. He is everything that is "less" than an American. He should be run out of Washington on a rail, tarred and feathered. He is what we call in Texas; "scum of the earth!" He is a political trollop, and that is kind. I hear the name and spit!

^^^^ god, this guy never shuts up.

[hugeness]

I dont know why any politician would be giving a general crap. The politicians are the ones who give the soldiers stipulations on what and where to bomb etc. I think these days generals are a little afraid to do their job in fear of getting a court martial if they accidentally kill some civilians. Do you think Patton worried about crap from politicians? No. He did what needed to be done to win the war, period. Until our politicians quit handicapping these guys, we will be pussyfooting in Iraq for a while.

[hugeness]

Originally Posted by paolo59

If you weren't from Arkansas, I would take the time to explain my opinion. In reality, there is no need for any explanation. For a United States Senator to say the **** that he has stated is inexcusable. The Senator from Nevada is a political whore, plain and simple.

I'll second that.

[TheGame240]

I have no problems with questioning/criticizing anyone at any given time. If there had been more of that after 911 we probably wouldn't be in the situation we're in. But I digress.

Anyway to answer the original question. People feel that it takes away the commanders ability to lead. For example, it becomes more difficult to make decisions when you know if it goes wrong you'll have to hear about it. There's also a fear that the troops will hear the criticism and it will decrease moral. IMO the opposite holds true. The criticism should make the commanders make better, more thought out, decisions. And any troops that would let their moral drop because of something a senator said were probably thinking the same thing themselves anyway.

[thirsty4chicken]

Originally Posted by premed lifter

tony snow just ripped into sen. reid for reids comments about general pace to some bloggers. Reid essentially called him a clueless hack for the pres. Snow says its a horrible thing to criticize a general during a time of war? WTF is that? I say there isn't a better time to call a clueless general out than during a time of war. I'm not saying pace is clueless or isn't, but how is calling out a general during wartime out of bounds?

Fill me in. Thanks.

Well it isn't bad per se (constructive criticism can be a good thing), but it is harmful when said in public, and in the press.

Why is it bad? It hurts troop morale. There are soldiers laying down their lives right now under the general's orders. If some politician says that the general is doing the wrong thing, then the soldiers may think they're doing the wrong thing, too, and that their lives were lost in vain. NEVER publicly criticize a general in a time of war.

Come to think of it, wasn't Reid the same guy who announced our defeat in Iraq a couple of months ago? This guy is a POS.

[paolo59]

Originally Posted by Fidelis

That's big of you to attack the state that I'm from. How is that any different from attacking my race or nationality? Unfortunately I can't neg you again today.

Other posters took the time to explain their reasoning, but you still haven't. I don't think I've ever seen you contribute anything worthwhile to this forum. In fact, all I ever see you post are insults and rants.

Obviously you haven't read all of my posts. For a United States senator to stand in the well of the Senate and pronounce that the War in Iraq is lost, to say that the "surge" is a failure when just now the extra troops are actually entering the field is the height of irresponsibility. Whether you are for the war, or against it, whether you think it was wise to invade Iraq, or the greatest blunder, for a political leader to say the things that he has said is inexcusable. He undermines those troops that he says he supports. His words and actions enbolden the enemies of the United States. His motivation is purely political. I state again, Senator Reid would prostitute his mother in the street if he thought it would serve him politically. You can be very thankful that the present "crop" of democratic politicians have nothing in common with their predecessors. The statements that have been made by the likes of Reid, Kerry, and Murtha are "money" in the bank for every insurgent, terrorist and would be enemy of the United States. The Senator is, as you say, "ranting" and adding nothing to the debate. You should be critisizing him rather than me.

[tabloid]

A US senator has every right to criticize or praise a generals job performance. ( and lets face it, war is a generals job, so now is the perfect time for positive or negative critique ) The General is an employee of the people, as is the Senator. Theoretically an elected official of the people is speaking for his constituants, and the last time I checked most of America is fed up with the way the occupation of Iraq is going. Anyone have the clip or transcript?

[US_Ranger]

Originally Posted by tabloid

A US senator has every right to criticize or praise a generals job performance. ( and lets face it, war is a generals job, so now is the perfect time for positive or negative critique ) The General is an employee of the people, as is the Senator. Theoretically an elected official of the people is speaking for his constituants, and the last time I checked most of America is fed up with the way the occupation of Iraq is going. Anyone have the clip or transcript?

It doesn't matter who's fed up with what, it has to do with professional courtesy, morale, life/death, and ability to lead.

[US_Ranger]

Originally Posted by TheGame240

I have no problems with questioning/criticizing anyone at any given time. If there had been more of that after 911 we probably wouldn't be in the situation we're in. But I digress.

Anyway to answer the original question. People feel that it takes away the commanders ability to lead. For example, it becomes more difficult to make decisions when you know if it goes wrong you'll have to hear about it. There's also a fear that the troops will hear the criticism and it will decrease moral. IMO the opposite holds true. The criticism should make the commanders make better, more thought out, decisions. And any troops that would let their moral drop because of something a senator said were probably thinking the same thing themselves anyway.

In all honesty, you have NO idea what you're talking about.

[tabloid]

Originally Posted by US_Ranger

It doesn't matter who's fed up with what, it has to do with professional courtesy, morale, life/death, and ability to lead.

Of course it matters who is fed up....the very basis of our government is about the citizens being able to air grievances through a representative.

I would think that not having a clear mission does more damage to moral than some Senators comments.

[HELIX35]

I consider it wrong that a shmuck politician would dare to question a General with 30 years in the military. If someone has a lifetime of experience, and I have none, I probably wouldn't tell them they're wrong.

[efini84]

it's only wrong if you disagree with those criticisms.

[US_Ranger]

Originally Posted by tabloid

Of course it matters who is fed up....the very basis of our government is about the citizens being able to air grievances through a representative.

I would think that not having a clear mission does more damage to moral than some Senators comments.

Read my original post on why it's wrong. There are certain ways to handle criticism that doesn't involve vote whoring and the loss of morale.


I love how certain members of our government doom the leadership in Iraq to failure before they even start their damn job. It's amazing we've lasted this long in Iraq.

[majortrepak]

Originally Posted by premed lifter

tony snow just ripped into sen. reid for reids comments about general pace to some bloggers. Reid essentially called him a clueless hack for the pres. Snow says its a horrible thing to criticize a general during a time of war? WTF is that? I say there isn't a better time to call a clueless general out than during a time of war. I'm not saying pace is clueless or isn't, but how is calling out a general during wartime out of bounds?

Fill me in. Thanks.

Is it wrong no, however reid's comments are silly, the prez makes the policy, not the military

[majortrepak]

Originally Posted by tabloid

Of course it matters who is fed up....the very basis of our government is about the citizens being able to air grievances through a representative.

I would think that not having a clear mission does more damage to moral than some Senators comments.

eh what you think about what the troops think is not really important.

[Fidelis]

Originally Posted by paolo59

Obviously you haven't read all of my posts. For a United States senator to stand in the well of the Senate and pronounce that the War in Iraq is lost, to say that the "surge" is a failure when just now the extra troops are actually entering the field is the height of irresponsibility. Whether you are for the war, or against it, whether you think it was wise to invade Iraq, or the greatest blunder, for a political leader to say the things that he has said is inexcusable. He undermines those troops that he says he supports. His words and actions enbolden the enemies of the United States. His motivation is purely political. I state again, Senator Reid would prostitute his mother in the street if he thought it would serve him politically. You can be very thankful that the present "crop" of democratic politicians have nothing in common with their predecessors. The statements that have been made by the likes of Reid, Kerry, and Murtha are "money" in the bank for every insurgent, terrorist and would be enemy of the United States. The Senator is, as you say, "ranting" and adding nothing to the debate. You should be critisizing him rather than me.

I was asking you to give me a reason to criticize him, that's it. Instead, you feebly attacked me (using the only possible thing you could find to attack, which is the state where I'm from). My only agenda in this thread is to insist that people who post in this forum should actually make contributions. I don't want R/P to devolve into a ****-flinging contest.

I think that the Senator is justified. As a public servant and a representative of his constituents, it is his obligation to act as the voice of the people. That voice is clear--the war is being poorly managed. I believe that free and open speech does more good than harm to our country. You can invoke the morale of the troops all you want, but that's still not justification for squelching the voice of the people.

[IraHays]

Originally Posted by premed lifter

tony snow just ripped into sen. reid for reids comments about general pace to some bloggers. Reid essentially called him a clueless hack for the pres. Snow says its a horrible thing to criticize a general during a time of war? WTF is that? I say there isn't a better time to call a clueless general out than during a time of war. I'm not saying pace is clueless or isn't, but how is calling out a general during wartime out of bounds?

Fill me in. Thanks.

I think they would prefer these kinds of ciiticisims be behind closed doors or in a more professional manor for the moral of the troops.

In addition, it does Reid no good if he really feels this way because now he can be discredited as an attention whore.

[paolo59]

Originally Posted by Fidelis

I was asking you to give me a reason to criticize him, that's it. Instead, you feebly attacked me (using the only possible thing you could find to attack, which is the state where I'm from). My only agenda in this thread is to insist that people who post in this forum should actually make contributions. I don't want R/P to devolve into a ****-flinging contest.

I think that the Senator is justified. As a public servant and a representative of his constituents, it is his obligation to act as the voice of the people. That voice is clear--the war is being poorly managed. I believe that free and open speech does more good than harm to our country. You can invoke the morale of the troops all you want, but that's still not justification for squelching the voice of the people.

The good Senator from Nevada doesn't represent constituents in his state, he represents the intent of the democratic party to gain votes in any upcoming election. His previous statements concerning illegal immigration are proof of this fact. The voice of the people? Fully 80% of the American people want this legislation quelched. He spoke out forcefully against illegal immigration, and now he champions it. His motivation is purely political. Free speech is a tenent of our whole system, I have no problem with it in the least. Senator Reid's comments are way over the top. His comments are partisan, pure and simple. As far as my comment about Arkansas, perhaps I jumped to a conclusion, but I rather suspect that you think the Clinton's are the best thing since sliced bread! LOL