Overturn Roe vs Wade

Thinman · 06-10-2007, 09:52 AM

Poll coming. If Bush or another conservative president gets to appoint one more conservative justice, the landmark decision making abortion legal could very well be overturned. Do you think this will be good for the country or bad?

mlc82 · 06-10-2007, 09:57 AM

Fighting abortion in an already overpopulated world is a terrible idea IMO. This sounds like the usual conservative ideal of sweeping problems under the carpet to act like we live in an ideal world, only to have it come back and haunt us later down the line.

MediaDeit · 06-10-2007, 10:03 AM

I support abortion, and a womans right to choose.

Anyways, to mlc82 get your head out of your ass if you think conservatives are the only goup of people sweeping problems under the rug, hell democrats play that game very well also, just ask Clinton. All politicians do it. Don't be a biased brainwashed fool.

mlc82 · 06-10-2007, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MediaDeit

I support abortion, and a womans right to choose.

Anyways, to mlc82 get your head out of your ass if you think conservatives are the only goup of people sweeping problems under the rug, hell democrats play that game very well also, just ask Clinton. All politicians do it. Don't be a biased brainwashed fool.

Oh I agree that the they do, however I was thinking more along the lines of this same crowd also pushing for abstinence only sex ed to go along with the lack of abortion. Nothing like creating more problems.

By the way, personal attacks usually don't make you look like the smartest debater out there.

1972girl · 06-10-2007, 10:19 AM

Im not a big fan of abortion but untell people start stepping up and adopting unwanted babys I will support it.

TwiloMike · 06-10-2007, 11:12 AM

Abortion, like many other things, can't be stamped out. Even when made illegal it can't be controlled. What is the use in driving it underground? None, except for questionable ideology.

It'd be terrible if abortion became illegal again.

http://img.timeinc.net/time/80days/images/730122.jpg

AhkTed Kenajhad · 06-10-2007, 11:17 AM

i personally don't really agree with abortion. my thinking is your rights end where another person rights began so doesn't that mean that the baby has the right to the chance of life, even tho its just a cluster of cells. i think if RVW was overturned it would just be left to the states so northerners could kill all the babies that they want to while killing babies would be illegal in the south.

ironman1964bc · 06-10-2007, 11:18 AM

There is no real answer to this problem. Women are going to have abortions whether it is legal or not. If it isn't legal, it will make some "back alley" doctors awful rich, or maybe women will take poison like they did in the 1700's and 1800's.

I am no fan of abortion, especially the arguement that it is a woman's body and no one should tell her what to do. What the woman is saying is contradictory since no one is giving the baby the same choice. In other words, if you could talk to a baby in the womb and gave it the same choice, you would have to ask it "is it ok if I kill you or do you want to live?" The baby would choose life every time, but sadly it is not given a choice. You can't protect the rights of one body by killing another body.

Like I said, this problem will never go away. Overturning roe vs wade will not accomplish anything except make a few fundies think they have accomplished something. It would be kind of like outlawing guns but letting everyone keep the guns they already have.

Snoopis · 06-10-2007, 12:20 PM

Maybe I don't understand Roe vs Wade correctly, but in my understanding, overturning it would not make abortion illegal. It would make it legal for states to make it illegal. Thus giving each state the choice to allow or disallow abortion. Am I wrong?

Snoopis · 06-10-2007, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ironman1964bc

It would be kind of like outlawing guns but letting everyone keep the guns they already have.

We already do that.

mlc82 · 06-10-2007, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snoopis

We already do that.

Or the always intelligent idea of outlawing guns, and expecting criminals to give their's up also and not become rich selling black market guns.

AdonisSMU · 06-10-2007, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ironman1964bc

There is no real answer to this problem. Women are going to have abortions whether it is legal or not. If it isn't legal, it will make some "back alley" doctors awful rich, or maybe women will take poison like they did in the 1700's and 1800's.

I am no fan of abortion, especially the arguement that it is a woman's body and no one should tell her what to do. What the woman is saying is contradictory since no one is giving the baby the same choice. In other words, if you could talk to a baby in the womb and gave it the same choice, you would have to ask it "is it ok if I kill you or do you want to live?" The baby would choose life every time, but sadly it is not given a choice. You can't protect the rights of one body by killing another body.

I was with you until you start talking about if a cluster of cells could talk. What does that say about all the sperm that are wasted every day? What if they could talk?

The bottom line is...this line or reasoning just sounds crazy!

RasLion · 06-10-2007, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdonisSMU

I was with you until you start talking about if a cluster of cells could talk. What does that say about all the sperm that are wasted every day? What if they could talk?

The bottom line is...this line or reasoning just sounds crazy!

Yes... men everywhere are killing millions of sperm daily. We need to ban masturbation.

user239605087107802b · 06-10-2007, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snoopis

Maybe I don't understand Roe vs Wade correctly, but in my understanding, overturning it would not make abortion illegal. It would make it legal for states to make it illegal. Thus giving each state the choice to allow or disallow abortion. Am I wrong?

Anyone care to clarify, I'm interested in this aswell.

Quintis Vindex · 06-10-2007, 01:31 PM

Roe v Wade being overturned won't make abortions illegal.

What it does is throw it back down to the states. The end result is states that are primarily pro-abortion would keep it legal, states that are anti-abortion would likely restrict it very heavily if not ban it outright.

So if you lived in a place where abortion was banned or too heavily restricted, and had means to do so, you could go to another state and have it done.

The only people who would be really impacted would be those in the dregs of poverty who couldn't afford to travel across state lines and have the procedure done.

hugeness · 06-10-2007, 01:32 PM

a baby has a right to be born

devire1 · 06-10-2007, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AhkTed Kenajhad

i personally don't really agree with abortion. my thinking is your rights end where another person rights began so doesn't that mean that the baby has the right to the chance of life, even tho its just a cluster of cells. i think if RVW was overturned it would just be left to the states so northerners could kill all the babies that they want to while killing babies would be illegal in the south.

this is y i am against it being overturned. if a women happens to be born in jesusland, she should still have the right to have an abortion.

clovely · 06-10-2007, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mlc82

Fighting abortion in an already overpopulated world is a terrible idea IMO. This sounds like the usual conservative ideal of sweeping problems under the carpet to act like we live in an ideal world, only to have it come back and haunt us later down the line.

Abortion as population control? Yikes!! What's next - euthenasia, gas chambers?

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwiloMike

Abortion, like many other things, can't be stamped out. Even when made illegal it can't be controlled. What is the use in driving it underground? None, except for questionable ideology.

It'd be terrible if abortion became illegal again.

http://img.timeinc.net/time/80days/images/730122.jpg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quintis Vindex

Roe v Wade being overturned won't make abortions illegal.

What it does is throw it back down to the states. The end result is states that are primarily pro-abortion would keep it legal, states that are anti-abortion would likely restrict it very heavily if not ban it outright.

Experts on both sides, for and against abortion will tell you the law is very much flawed. It's also flawed Constitutionally. Like so many other areas usurped by the Federal Government, it should never have been a federal issue. This, along with so many other things, should be a State's rights issue.

mlc82 · 06-10-2007, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clovely

Abortion as population control? Yikes!! What's next - euthenasia, gas chambers?

No, I think condoms and BC pills work best for birth control, and maybe even the idea of not having sex if you're too dumb to use the above when not planning on having a baby, but then you can't expect that.

If others want to control the population by having their own abortions, I'm fine with that.

TwiloMike · 06-10-2007, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ironman1964bc

I am no fan of abortion, especially the arguement that it is a woman's body and no one should tell her what to do. What the woman is saying is contradictory since no one is giving the baby the same choice.

Are you aware that approximately 1/3 of pregnancies end by natural abortion within the first few weeks? They are called miscarriages, and reasons for them are varied, but the point is that they aren't intentional and often the mother doesn't even know she's pregnant until she miscarries. At that point it isn't a "baby" yet, and with the prevalence of such occurrences I don't see why it would be any different for a woman to decide that she doesn't want it.

Quote:

In other words, if you could talk to a baby in the womb and gave it the same choice, you would have to ask it "is it ok if I kill you or do you want to live?" The baby would choose life every time,

Source? You're projecting. If we're assigning cognitive and decision making skills to a clump of cells no bigger than a raspberry, let's also imagine that it can make a decision about whether it wants to be born into a family that can't afford it or a family that doesn't want it. Will it still want to be born?

Quote:

but sadly it is not given a choice. You can't protect the rights of one body by killing another body.

And you can't protect the rights of one body by forcing another body to carry to term. Yes, it's a catch 22.

Quote:

Like I said, this problem will never go away. Overturning roe vs wade will not accomplish anything except make a few fundies think they have accomplished something. It would be kind of like outlawing guns but letting everyone keep the guns they already have.

Yup.

hugeness · 06-10-2007, 03:28 PM

Women who want control over their bodies for abortions forget that if they had control in the first place, they would not be wanting an abortion.

Pump that iron! · 06-10-2007, 03:41 PM

I'm anti-abortion.

Someone has to speak for the unborn child I'm sorry.

Snoopis · 06-10-2007, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwiloMike

Are you aware that approximately 1/3 of pregnancies end by natural abortion within the first few weeks? They are called miscarriages, and reasons for them are varied...

Did you know most people die of natural causes? The reasons are varied, but that doesn't mean you can murder someone because a lot of people die anyway. It's a ludicrous argument to compare death by natural causes to intentional killing.

1dayIWillBeBig · 06-10-2007, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hugeness

Women who want control over their bodies for abortions forget that if they had control in the first place, they would not be wanting an abortion.

If you don't like legalilized abortion, get the **** out.

Go live somewhere else.

*i'm only saying this because I have seen you say this nonsense before*

bearlydavid · 06-10-2007, 06:32 PM

The point is, its a the people's choice... Not a group of 9 Supreme Court Justices... Consitutionally...

So let it be a state issue, let people vote state by state whether they want abortion to be legal or not, first, second, or third trimester...

But that would be doing things the way the Consititution would have wanted... Which probably isn't too popular today with all the Neo-Cons (Both Democratic and Republicans are included... )

xer0xed · 06-10-2007, 06:54 PM

It was an activist, non-interpretivist ruling with no roots in the Constitution. States have every right to make laws on abortion if they see fit.

LatsMakeTheMan · 06-10-2007, 07:13 PM

I don't see how anything positive could come out of outlawing abortion.

For many people, having a baby before they're ready is just damning them to a life below the poverty line, along with the child.

Of course people could practice safe sex and use birth control, but I don't think that a failure to do so should be "punishable" by imposing an impoverished lifestyle for parent and child.

mlc82 · 06-10-2007, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xer0xed

It was an activist, non-interpretivist ruling with no roots in the Constitution. States have every right to make laws on abortion if they see fit.

I like how you're willing to keep to the Constitution regardless of your personal beliefs. If you ever consider running for office, I might vote your way

MantisShrimp · 06-10-2007, 07:18 PM

People should mind their own business, or expect the same intrusiveness in return. I am a big fan of the golden rule, reciprocity. The reason people support anti-choice is because they believe they have nothing in their lives which can be subjected to a strange form of government intrusiveness. Had they something similar, they would have the empathy to appreciate choice.

mlc82 · 06-10-2007, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LatsMakeTheMan

I don't see how anything positive could come out of outlawing abortion.

For many people, having a baby before they're ready is just damning them to a life below the poverty line, along with the child.

Of course people could practice safe sex and use birth control, but I don't think that a failure to do so should be "punishable" by imposing an impoverished lifestyle for parent and child.

I don't think it actually does do any good. It just makes some people feel good while they ignore the consequences.