anyone heard of blackwater? (US shadow army)

[AKR]

haven't read it all yet, but it's looking quite intresting.

http://www.yuricareport.com/Corporat...erfulArmy.html

Jeremy Scahill: Well, Blackwater really captures everything that you just said there. We're talking about a company that was founded by a man named Erik Prince, who comes from a family that was one of the top bank rollers of, not only the "Republican revolution" of the 1990s that brought Newt Gingrich and the Contract with America to power, but also the rise of what we now know as the religious right or the Christian conservative movement. Erik Prince's family helped James Dobson found Focus on the Family. Erik Prince's family gave the seed money for Gary Bauer to found the Family Research Council. Erik Prince himself is a major bank roller of President Bush, his allies, and the Christian conservative movement in this country.

Someone who is deeply linked to the Christian right, and to the current Administration, has turned around and started what has become the world's most powerful private mercenary army. These guys are like neo-Crusaders. To have them on the government payroll to the tune of $750 million, operating in a Muslim country, should be frightening to everyone who understands that.

The fact of the matter is that this Administration has hired what is effectively a Christian army to operate in Muslim countries. This is very frightening to anyone who cares about civil liberties and the future of democracy and democratic processes. The fact is that these contractors provide the Bush Administration with an extraordinary level of political expediency. Their deaths don't get counted. Their crimes don't get reported or prosecuted. They're effectively a shadow army operating at the behest of an Administration waging a rogue war.


The [reason the] mercenary industry loves the current state of affairs is because it's totally unenforced. On paper, yes, there's a law that governs contractors in Iraq. In reality, only one contractor has been indicted for any crime or violation in Iraq. Either we have 100,000 saints running around as contractors in Iraq, or something is very rotten. I happen to think that something is very rotten.

i know, i'm sure none of it's true; our government is perfect.

[MonsterG8r]

Yes........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqZ95a249p0

j/k...agreed...something smells.

[Diesel66]

oh noes, a Republican.
They must be evil.

[hobbes1651]

Originally Posted by Diesel66

oh noes, a Republican.
They must be evil.

haha

[US_Ranger]

Originally Posted by AKR

haven't read it all yet, but it's looking quite intresting.

http://www.yuricareport.com/Corporat...erfulArmy.html




i know, i'm sure none of it's true; our government is perfect.

That article is a load of crap. Whoever wrote it doesn't even know what a mercenary is for starts, and secondly, they don't understand what Blackwater's job is. Typical bull**** from someone who doesn't understand what they're talking about.

Yes, I've worked as a "MERCENARY" (lol) in Iraq and yes I know what I'm talking about.

[HELIX35]

Originally Posted by AKR

haven't read it all yet, but it's looking quite intresting.

i know, i'm sure none of it's true; our government is perfect.

You're reeeeeeaaaaaaaallllllly grasping at straws now.

[hobbes1651]

Correct me if I am wrong here someone who is over there but isn't blackwaters main job convoy security and serving as body guards. I thought they did very little of actual tactical missions.

[Diesel66]

this is the really sad part

In reality, only one contractor has been indicted for any crime or violation in Iraq. Either we have 100,000 saints running around as contractors in Iraq, or something is very rotten. I happen to think that something is very rotten.

No crimes have been alleged, so obviously there is a massive conspiracy between Bush, the Pope, Jerry Falwell, etc.... to kill every Muslim.

[US_Ranger]

Originally Posted by hobbes1651

Correct me if I am wrong here someone who is over there but isn't blackwaters main job convoy security and serving as body guards. I thought they did very little of actual tactical missions.

Blackwater mainly deals with what you just said. Most of their contracts come from White House and DoD personnel who they are assigned to protect as they travel from location to location. Blackwater is popular because of the Fallujah massacre (burned bodies from bridges) and because they lose more people in general than most other companies. They are a pretty large group but don't really deal with any sort of tactical missions. They have their own limited air support and pretty good logistical support. They also have their own boot camp type program that runs 8 weeks and makes people feel like they're hardcore and whatnot. Basically, they're slightly better than most companies over there but nothing special. As stated before, they don't deal with any sort of combat action unless they get attacked. It's mostly transporting and guarding important people.

[hobbes1651]

Originally Posted by US_Ranger

Blackwater mainly deals with what you just said. Most of their contracts come from White House and DoD personnel who they are assigned to protect as they travel from location to location. Blackwater is popular because of the Fallujah massacre (burned bodies from bridges) and because they lose more people in general than most other companies. They are a pretty large group but don't really deal with any sort of tactical missions. They have their own limited air support and pretty good logistical support. They also have their own boot camp type program that runs 8 weeks and makes people feel like they're hardcore and whatnot. Basically, they're slightly better than most companies over there but nothing special. As stated before, they don't deal with any sort of combat action unless they get attacked. It's mostly transporting and guarding important people.

They hire mostly ex-military guys is what I had read. Thanks

[hugeness]

Originally Posted by HELIX35

You're reeeeeeaaaaaaaallllllly grasping at straws now.

Yes thats what AKR is best at. He also believes that soldiers shouldnt have sex with their wives before they deploy and he also thinks parents shouldnt take their kids to church.

[US_Ranger]

Originally Posted by hobbes1651

They hire mostly ex-military guys is what I had read. Thanks

They like ex-Special Operations guys (Seals, Rangers, SF, Delta, Recon) and also solid Marine grunts. They require a little more experience than most of the companies but that doesn't automatically mean they hire all winners. Most of these groups in Iraq get some real ****bags working for them. I was put in danger a couple times because of dumb**** contractors so I'm not the biggest fan of all the companies but a lot of these groups are very important and **** wouldn't get done over there without them. Our military just isn't big enough to handle all the workload.

[AKR]

Originally Posted by hobbes1651

Correct me if I am wrong here someone who is over there but isn't blackwaters main job convoy security and serving as body guards. I thought they did very little of actual tactical missions.

even if all they did was a lot of guarding, what does it matter? besides the fact that they can get away with all sorts of ****, there's this:

The primary reason the Bush Administration relied so heavily on private contractors is because it's occupying Iraq -- it's occupying Afghanistan -- these are unpopular wars. There's a real recruitment crisis in the U.S. military.

The unfortunate thing is, oftentimes the debate gets framed as what's wrong with using private forces as a way of bolstering the active duty military. The real question that needs to be asked in this country is why is the United States in Iraq to the tune of 150,000 active-duty soldiers, and another 100,000 contractors, and then a smattering of a few tens of thousands of foreign troops? This is not a war that's supported by the American people. It's not a war that's supported by the people of the world. Rather than questioning these aggressive, offensive wars of empire, we get wrapped up in these debates about is it right or wrong to use private forces. I think it really ends up clouding the issue. The issue is that this Administration uses mercenaries so that it can wage offensive wars around the world. And we're seeing it on the increase, not the decrease.

and i'm sure the military robots will come in here and tell me that there's no problem with enlistment. if that's true, why is the government hiring private parties to do the job that the military could be doing for much less?

[AKR]

Originally Posted by HELIX35

You're reeeeeeaaaaaaaallllllly grasping at straws now.

please point out what part i've posted isn't true.

[hobbes1651]

Originally Posted by AKR

and i'm sure the military robots will come in here and tell me that there's no problem with enlistment. if that's true, why is the government hiring private parties to do the job that the military could be doing for much less?

Im joining in 3 yrs when my MRI clears me of reoccurence.

[US_Ranger]

Originally Posted by AKR

even if all they did was a lot of guarding, what does it matter? besides the fact that they can get away with all sorts of ****, there's this:



and i'm sure the military robots will come in here and tell me that there's no problem with enlistment. if that's true, why is the government hiring private parties to do the job that the military could be doing for much less?

Wtf?

First off, you obviously backpedaled from your original statement. I'm glad you gave that bull**** up.

Secondly, I know the Marines always meet their recruiting goals, they've never had a problem. The army is having recruiting problems but they've had recruiting problems for 20 years because they're big and need a lot of people. I doubt it has anything to do with the "EVIL WAR" and more to do with the fact that college is pushed as the best option to young people. Self sacrifice isn't something that is stressed in highschool as far as I know.

The reason the government is hiring private parties is because we have an all volunteer military that isn't big enough to handle 2 wars INCLUDING all the logistical areas of work that must be taken care of. Obviously that would mean some other party comes into play. Civilian workers can easily fit the bill so they're used. This isn't rocket science, it's basic common sense.

[timbo81]

that article seems to be biased like usual

So apparently because the guy who started blackwater might be a christian then he is running a "christian army" who's sole job must of course be to convert all them poor muslims

[US_Ranger]

Originally Posted by timbo81

that article seems to be biased like usual

So apparently because the guy who started blackwater might be a christian then he is running a "christian army" who's sole job must of course be to convert all them poor muslims

SK, is it you?

[HELIX35]

Originally Posted by AKR

please point out what part i've posted isn't true.

A shadow army run buy the US gov't to carry out all of our dirty deeds? Yeah that stuff like protection for civilian contractors is really evil.

By the way the civilians that run our chow halls are all part of a global conspiracy run by the shadow chefs of the culinary institute.

[ECHO7]

You should hear about some of the other less known PMCs... riding in convoy in stock Chevies... ****

[AKR]

Originally Posted by timbo81

that article seems to be biased like usual

So apparently because the guy who started blackwater might be a christian then he is running a "christian army" who's sole job must of course be to convert all them poor muslims

the part about the "christian army" might be a bit of a stretch, but do you disagree with the other points? do you disagree that these people are being paid tons of money to do what the military should be doing? do you disagree that they are hiring mercenaries from other countries, because those governments don't want to get involved?


it seems to me that if you're fighting a war that your country is against, and many other countries are against, you should stop for a minute and consider what you're doing. but do you really think they care what the people of america think? of course not. all of this money gets filtered into their pockets. they aren't paying for this-WE ARE. the owner of blackwater pours this money back into right wing pockets, who keep this beast going.

[US_Ranger]

Originally Posted by HELIX35

A shadow army run buy the US gov't to carry out all of our dirty deeds? Yeah that stuff like protection for civilian contractors is really evil.

By the way the civilians that run our chow halls are all part of a global conspiracy run by the shadow chefs of the culinary institute.

Lol, yep.

KBR, I believe, is the biggest company that is contracting over there. They supply food and entertainment to thousands upon thousands of US and allied soldiers all over the middle east. Without them, it would be MRE's and nothing else. They put hundreds of trucks out at a time on the road with food and supplies.

Is it a coverup? Are they secretly sending these trucks out as decoys in order to call back to Shadow Base and give a code blue about Grid XYZ in the neutral zone????? Oh noes!!!!!!

[AKR]

Originally Posted by US_Ranger

Wtf?

First off, you obviously backpedaled from your original statement. I'm glad you gave that bull**** up.

um, what exactly did i back pedal from?

Secondly, I know the Marines always meet their recruiting goals, they've never had a problem. The army is having recruiting problems but they've had recruiting problems for 20 years because they're big and need a lot of people. I doubt it has anything to do with the "EVIL WAR" and more to do with the fact that college is pushed as the best option to young people.

damn that "education, not bull**** wars" thing they're teaching kids these days.

Self sacrifice isn't something that is stressed in highschool as far as I know.

neither is fighting rediculous, illegitmate wars. if these politicians are so for teaching self sacrifice, then why aren't their kids over in iraq?

The reason the government is hiring private parties is because we have an all volunteer military that isn't big enough to handle 2 wars INCLUDING all the logistical areas of work that must be taken care of. Obviously that would mean some other party comes into play. Civilian workers can easily fit the bill so they're used. This isn't rocket science, it's basic common sense.

common sense says you don't pay thousands of people tons of money to do things for your government, for which you will not be held accountable for. oh wait, that's a very sensical thing-if you're a slimy politician.

[AKR]

Originally Posted by HELIX35

A shadow army run buy the US gov't to carry out all of our dirty deeds? Yeah that stuff like protection for civilian contractors is really evil.

um, i never said they're doing "our dirty deeds." so again, what straws am i grasping at?

By the way the civilians that run our chow halls are all part of a global conspiracy run by the shadow chefs of the culinary institute.

lol, do you have any idea what the people of america are paying for people like you to simply eat food that's been prepared and shipped by private parties? you joke about it, but it really is funny, because it's bloody true. lol

maybe you haven't heard of the $45 six packs from haliburton.

[AKR]

Originally Posted by hobbes1651

Im joining in 3 yrs when my MRI clears me of reoccurence.

point?

[US_Ranger]

Originally Posted by AKR

um, what exactly did i back pedal from?



damn that "education, not bull**** wars" thing they're teaching kids these days.



neither is fighting rediculous, illegitmate wars. if these politicians are so for teaching self sacrifice, then why aren't their kids over in iraq?




common sense says you don't pay thousands of people tons of money to do things for your government, for which you will not be held accountable for. oh wait, that's a very sensical thing-if you're a slimy politician.

You've made ZERO points in this post. I lol'd at your part about "education, not bull**** wars" and then your crappy spelling afterwards.

Rich kids are usually the ones who don't enlist in the military, it doesn't have anything to do with politics. It's because it's easier for mommy and daddy to pay for a 100,000 dollar college tuition bill. If you're so mad about it, I suggest you bitch about all rich people and not just politicians. Also, a couple of the republican candidates do have kids in the middle east.

As for backpedaling, I'm talking about the points you keep trying to make which in turn are shot down which in turn cause you to make a different point that also sucks.

And your last paragraph makes no sense. I already explained why civilians do the job. Our military is an all volunteer force that is a lot smaller than our military in the past. Logistical jobs, convoy jobs, bodyguarding jobs, food preparation, transportation, mechanical work, etc etc etc etc can easily be handled by the civilian sector and therefore put LESS strain on our military. If you can't understand that it's because you really don't know anything about this type of situation. I don't mean to sound arrogant but I wouldn't go start a thread about molecular biologists being full of **** when I don't understand what their job is. Maybe you should try thinking outside the box and ask questions if you want answers instead of make ****ty accusations.

[Diesel66]

Originally Posted by AKR

and i'm sure the military robots will come in here and tell me that there's no problem with enlistment. if that's true, why is the government hiring private parties to do the job that the military could be doing for much less?

The military shouldnt be doing private security.
The military shouldnt be handling the logistics
The military shouldnt be cooking food.

Originally Posted by ECHO7

You should hear about some of the other less known PMCs... riding in convoy in stock Chevies... ****

sounds like the NG

[US_Ranger]

Originally Posted by ECHO7

You should hear about some of the other less known PMCs... riding in convoy in stock Chevies... ****

I was riding in the back of a Ford F350 a few times. I'll tell you what, I was nervous about IED's everywhere we went. I custom made (welder, intuition, theft) armor for the truck and made a gun tub in which I was a lot safer afterwards. My roommate and I even set up speakers in the damn thing so we could listen to music on convoys. Good times. Being a Christian invader who's trying to convert all Muslims isn't as bad as it sounds sometimes! (no SK)

[HELIX35]

Originally Posted by AKR

um, i never said they're doing "our dirty deeds." so again, what straws am i grasping at?

.

You're kidding right?

You made a thread about a "shadow army" that is unaccountable for their deeds working for the US government.

[AKR]

Originally Posted by US_Ranger

You've made ZERO points in this post. I lol'd at your part about "education, not bull**** wars" and then your crappy spelling afterwards.

that wasn't a spelling error-it was a typing error. i'm sorry; i'll never use the internet again.

Rich kids are usually the ones who don't enlist in the military, it doesn't have anything to do with politics. It's because it's easier for mommy and daddy to pay for a 100,000 dollar college tuition bill. If you're so mad about it, I suggest you bitch about all rich people and not just politicians.

i'm a little confused. you're telling me that because their parents fork our the college money, these kids don't join the military. but you just said that kids in america are taught to go to college instead of the military, so it sounds like you're also saying that the average kid goes to college instead of the military as well. so...?

and if these politicians are so patriotic and supportive of the war, you'd think more of their kids would want to be involved.

Also, a couple of the republican candidates do have kids in the middle east.

i'm not talking about candidates; i'm talking about those that voted for the war.

As for backpedaling, I'm talking about the points you keep trying to make which in turn are shot down which in turn cause you to make a different point that also sucks.

you still haven't listed a single "point" i've tried to make. please quote me, so we can do away with your vagueness.

And your last paragraph makes no sense. I already explained why civilians do the job. Our military is an all volunteer force that is a lot smaller than our military in the past. Logistical jobs, convoy jobs, bodyguarding jobs, food preparation, transportation, mechanical work, etc etc etc etc can easily be handled by the civilian sector and therefore put LESS strain on our military. If you can't understand that it's because you really don't know anything about this type of situation. I don't mean to sound arrogant but I wouldn't go start a thread about molecular biologists being full of **** when I don't understand what their job is. Maybe you should try thinking outside the box and ask questions if you want answers instead of make ****ty accusations.

what exactly was nonsensical about it? i was merely pointing out that it's pretty ****ty that our government can basically operate an illegal war with a hired army, which isn't held to the same standard of conduct that the official military is.


if the point was simply to fill in for a lack of our own military than a) they shouldn't be lying and telling us that there is no problem with recruitment, b) they shouldn't be hiring companies that are ripping us off, c) they should actually be held accountable for their actions, and d) they shouldn't go into a war that doesn't make sense.

i can understand the concept of hiring whoever you have to if you're honestly in need of more help to fight a war, but in the context of this war, and the way everything is being handled, i don't like it one bit. i'm not stupid; i understand the argument you're trying to give me, but given the circumstances, i don't think this is on the level.