High Intensity training for women athletes

[bbiggum]

H.I.T. and Athletes

It has been generally conceded that weight training is essential for athletes. As the old saying goes, "Given two athletes of the same ability, the stronger one always wins." But remember: Exercise is capable of producing two kinds of results -- positive and negative.

Just the right amount of exercise and there will follow a strength increase. Any more exercise than is required and overuse atrophy (a loss of strength) will result.

High-intensity training is best suited for athletes for it is the only approach that takes into account the fact of a limited recovery ability, i.e., a limited tolerance for the exhaustive effects of exercise. Since most athletes are overtrained from their calisthenics sessions, running and daily practice, the coach must be hyper-cautious about the amount of the severely stressful weight training he has his charges engage in. Daily weight training is anathema for athletes as it makes for very deep inroads into the athlete's recovery ability, which is already overtaxed, as just mentioned.

Athletes, during the off season, should train once a week (or less) depending on the individual and his personal, or innate, exercise stress tolerance. This can be determined by keeping records of each workout. If the trainee is receiving the proper dosage of weight training exercise (volume and frequency), he'll witness strength increases literally every workout. Keep in mind that the amount of weight training exercise he does has to be weighed against his other physical activities; again, all exercise exacts a toll on the body's limited reserve of resources, or recovery ability. During the playing season, the athlete should limit his workouts to two a month, each workout involving no more than two or three compound, "power" movements. Limit the off season workouts to two or three compound movements.

Mike Mentzer

H.I.T. and Females

I can't believe it took me this long to find the definitive answer as to whether women should use Heavy Duty training. I have been asked that question in countless letters and seminars and I always hemmed and hawed. Now I know; and the answer is YES! And the reason was so simple it should have hit us all between the eyes.

It is widely recognized that women generally have less strength and muscle than men because of their much lower levels of testosterone. Testosterone is a powerful androgen that also aids the recuperative sub-systems of the body to tolerate and respond better to exercise in all forms; hence the higher records for males in all sports. Since women have lesser androgen in their bodies, they don't tolerate exercise as well as most males; which is why brief, infrequent, high-intensity training is tailor-made for women.

H.I.T. and the Elderly

Although the benefits of weight training for the elderly has been espoused for years, many in their golden years shy away from it. The thought of going to the gym everyday or three days a week for an hour or more puts them off. However, with high-intensity training, they need only train once or twice a week for 15 to 20 minutes maximum. And because intensity is the cardinal element, they can lift light to moderate weight for even up to 20, or more, reps and still improve their condition, so long as they reach failure, or close to it. And as they'll see strength increases every workout, they'll receive the immediate, continuous feedback that their efforts are worth, important forvital maintenance of motivation. They need to remain sufficiently motivated and continue with the program; even make it fun. Of course, in addition to the regular strength increases, they develop and tone their lean mass for better metabolism and weight control. Of particular concern to many of the elderly is osteoporosis(loss of bone mass), which can be prevented through proper nutrition and the imposition of weight-bearing stress, such as weight resistance exercise.

[bbiggum]

As the Body Changes, Training Requirements Change:
Sticking Points are NOT Inevitable!
Very often an individual's progress ceases entirely because he failed to account for a very important consideration: that during periods of physical-muscular progress the body is not static, it is in a process of change; and that as the body changes training requirements change. (This was only touched upon briefly in Heavy Duty I; but elaborated thoroughly in Heavy Duty II.) In fact, this is the most important issue in bodybuilding science once the fundamentals of intensity, volume and frequency are grasped.

A properly conducted bodybuilding program is essentially a strength training program. Or, in other words, if one wants to grow larger he must grow stronger. When someone starts to argue with me on this point, I say, "What is one supposed to do to grow larger, get weaker? As one grows stronger, i.e., as the weights grow progressively greater, the stresses on the body become progressively greater; and must be compensated for. (This is the conceptual link that high-intensity theorists have been missing; and which explains their inability to answer the question of sticking points.)

Perhaps the easiest way to understand this phenomenon is to observe the stresses on your body when performing a warm-up set of Squats compared to those experienced during the actual workout set to failure. On the heavier workout set, you immediately recognize the much greater stress on the bones compared to that with the warm-up set; then the much greater demands on the cardio-respiratory system, and so forth. (Not available to conscious awareness are the physiologic-metabolic stresses.) Now simply extrapolate that into the situation over time, as you lift progressively greater weights workout to workout.

As the stresses grow progressively greater, they will eventually reach a critical point such that they constitute overtraining. The first symptom will be a slow down in progress; and if the individual continues with the same volume and frequency protocol, the stresses will continue to increase until there is a complete cessation of progress, typically referred to as a "sticking point." One need not ever experience a slow down in progress, let alone a sticking point, if he bears in mind all the while that as the weights grow progressively greater so do the stresses; and he must do certain specific things to compensate for them.

Within two to three weeks upon embarking on a Heavy Duty, high-intensity training program, a bodybuilder should begin inserting an extra rest day or even two at random beyond the suggested every fourth day workout so that he's compensating for the increasing stresses; and, then, with increasing regularity until he is training but once every five days with an extra rest day or two added beyond that.

To quell any fear about the progressive reduction of training frequency, consider this. An individual making progress training once every fourth day, i.e., whose body is overcompensating--(i.e., growing stronger and larger)--cannot lose anything by taking a further day or two of rest. If his body is overcompensating on day four, how is it that he would decompensate on day five or six? So, while there is no risk of a negative, no threat of a loss, by inserting an extra day or two of rest, there is the actuality of a positive; which is - with the extra rest day(s) you have that much greater certainty that enough time has elapsed between workouts to allow the body sufficient opportunity to complete both the recovery and the growth processes. The implication here is that if the individual trains again before the body's growth production process is completed, it will be short-circuited; and less than 100 units of possible progress realized.

Once the individual is training once every seven days, I suggest a reduction in the volume of training as outlined in my new book Heavy Duty II: Mind and Body. Reduced volume will necessitate switching from the Suggested Workout #1 to the Consolidation Program. With a consolidation routine, there is a decided shift in emphasis to predominately compound exercises, i.e., ones that involve multiple muscle groups, such as Squats, Dips and Deadlifts, etc. A workout program consisting of compound exercises still works all of the major muscle groups, but with fewer total sets, making for a minimal inroad into recovery ability. (Ideally, growth would be stimulated with zero sets; then none of the body's limited recovery ability would be used for recovery, it would all be used for growth production; and you'd grow so fast as to stagger the imagination. At this juncture, however, no one knows how to stimulate growth with zero sets.)

Following the above advice, you'll never hit a sticking point; you will experience unbreached progress with your training. As I have written before: if scientists can send a man to the moon and bring him back safely each time, we should be able to succeed with every one of our missions to the gym here on earth. Building bigger muscles should be a cake walk compared to moon walk.

[BuffedWildCat]

Interesting points. I love reading stuff like that. I'll definitely keep it in mind. Thanks for posting it.

[John Prophet]

HIT sux for guys....I assume it sux for ladies also


ladies, dont believe the pseudo-science. Mike Mentzer was a meth addict who did time in a mental ward...you really want to do his program??

[runNwild]

Originally Posted by John Prophet

HIT sux for guys....I assume it sux for ladies also


ladies, dont believe the pseudo-science. Mike Mentzer was a meth addict who did time in a mental ward...you really want to do his program??

why do you believe it sucks?

[John Prophet]

cuz it does, lol

there are reasons why 99.9% of bb'ers and athletes DONT use HIT


there is a reason why most of those who promote HIT are deep in the red. The rhetoric never matches the results

most people get results at FIRST with HIT because they are coming off of high volume....so their body senses that "deload" and for a while they make easy gains. But after the body adjusts "the jig is up".

there is a reason why strength type athletes generally INCREASE volume for about the first 6-8 years of their careers, lol. Its called building a base....building work capacity.

HIT is interesting reading....but thats about it. (see also "Power Factor", "Static Contraction".....BS gimmicks to sell books etc)

[Luke Whippo]

Originally Posted by John Prophet

HIT sux for guys....I assume it sux for ladies also


ladies, dont believe the pseudo-science. Mike Mentzer was a meth addict who did time in a mental ward...you really want to do his program??

first off John, I don't think of Mike Mentzer when I think of HIT, I think of Authur Jones, and to babble about drug use (something thats news to me, but that don't matter) you think he's the only guy in the "irongame" who fell a "drug-addict" (IF THATS TRUE??).
Didn't I see posts of yours saying you need "test booasters" to train and feel good?

I take a wild guess you got HIT (the way HIT is meant to be) all wrong, like most of everyone has?

[John Prophet]

lol. Ive trained for years and years...took extremely mild test boosters (blue up and rebound reloaded) for exactly 4 weeks of all those years ive trained, lol

I doubt they are much more than placebo. I feel great right now on no "boosters"

what that has to do with Mentzers meth ramblings and time in the loony bin I have no clue.


again, if HIT is so great, why do all you HIT brothers end up in the red??? I guess you are all just persecuted Messiahs huh?

Ellington Darden is another....dude just hawks off the SAME tired pics of Mentzer and Viator etc, lol. I called him out on it in his thread over on Tnation. Cant dude even get any new pics?? oh wait, thats right, no modern pros train that way, nevermind.

if you guys offered up HIt as a "one possible path of many" youd be accepted more. But you nutjobs insist on saying your way is the only way when 99% of bb'ers and athletes dont use HIT

Like youd tell Cutler and Coleman they were all wrong.

What a freakign joke.


its like "Sorry Ronnie, you only THINK you're big"

anyway, I am just looking out for my iron sisters.....I dont want to see them swayed by pseudo science.

[Luke Whippo]

Originally Posted by John Prophet

I doubt they are much more than placebo. I feel great right now on no "boosters"

what that has to do with Mentzers meth ramblings and time in the loony bin I have no clue.


again, if HIT is so great, why do all you HIT brothers end up in the red??? I guess you are all just persecuted Messiahs huh?


if you guys offered up HIt as a "one possible path of many" youd be accepted more. But you nutjobs insist on saying your way is the only way when 99% of bb'ers and athletes dont use HIT


anyway, I am just looking out for my iron sisters.....I dont want to see them swayed by pseudo science.

good for you, and my whole point about the "drug addict" thing was exactly like you stated above "I have no clue" don't be so nieve John.


if you've ever read anything I've ever posted on this board this is the first time I've ever talked HIT, I've never said HIT was "the only possible way" however I do blieve that "high intensity" in anyones training will build some of the greatest amounts of gains possible. So you just labled me as a HIT preecher for some group on pseudo science? don't be so nieve again.

[John Prophet]

Ill try to refrain, lol. I usually dont discuss alien abductions, military bases on mars, or HIT anwyay.

Like I said, I just wanted to warn my lady friends not to just be swayed by pseudo intellectual articles (by drug addict members of loony bins, lol)

[Luke Whippo]

Originally Posted by John Prophet

Like I said, I just wanted to warn my lady friends not to just be swayed by pseudo intellectual articles (by drug addict members of loony bins, lol)

and you may very well be 100% correct here?, I didn't even read the article, I've seen "heavy duty" with Mentzor, and yeah it was some good training I thought when I first saw it years ago, not something I would do religously, but after finding out more what HIT is (high intesity training) there is lots more to it.

[Luke Whippo]

actually from what I've gathered from some fellas who worked directly with and for Arthur Jones, there really isn't much MORE to it, it's MORE as in "hard work" more though.

without getting too deep in the article the basic perspective for me is, HIT (high intesity training) is great for an athlete, and for man or women.

[sandmonster]

Originally Posted by Luke Whippo

actually from what I've gathered from some fellas who worked directly with and for Arthur Jones, there really isn't much MORE to it, it's MORE as in "hard work" more though.

without getting too deep in the article the basic perspective for me is, HIT (high intesity training) is great for an athlete, and for man or women.

i agree because i did hit and it worked for me two just a little while ago and my bench press went up

[urstrulyhb]

ive tried both hit and ss... im not gonna say that hit is not effective bc it burns more calories than ss, well so ive noticed, i think ss burns more fat
thats only my opinion though. ive seen people with great results from hit and women on other boards ive read think its the best finding ever

[John Prophet]

Originally Posted by urstrulyhb

ive tried both hit and ss... im not gonna say that hit is not effective bc it burns more calories than ss, well so ive noticed, i think ss burns more fat
thats only my opinion though. ive seen people with great results from hit and women on other boards ive read think its the best finding ever

u mean H.I.T. or H.I.I.T. ? 2 different things

[BuffedWildCat]

Originally Posted by John Prophet

...
Like I said, I just wanted to warn my lady friends not to just be swayed by pseudo intellectual articles (by drug addict members of loony bins, lol)

No offense, but I'll make my own decision as to whether something is pseudo science or not. I try to keep an open mind to new ideas until I decide/figure out for myself whether or not they are bunk. My first impression is that just by the fact that it IS something DIFFERENT, something that my body is not accustomed to, I may be able to use some of the principles in my training program as a means to kick my body out of a plateau. There are a lot of things in life that can be of benefit if done at the right time and place. And I don't think that any one particular training program is a one size fits all or even superior for a particular individual but rather that VARIETY is the key to continued gains. I think it just gets harder and harder the longer you've been weight training to continue to get significant gains (without using any type of drugs) because your body just gets to the point where it has pretty much adapted to everything you can think of to throw at it. Those are my thoughts anyway.

[John Prophet]

Originally Posted by BuffedWildCat

No offense, but I'll make my own decision as to whether something is pseudo science or not. I try to keep an open mind to new ideas until I decide/figure out for myself whether or not they are bunk. My first impression is that just by the fact that it IS something DIFFERENT, something that my body is not accustomed to, I may be able to use some of the principles in my training program as a means to kick my body out of a plateau. There are a lot of things in life that can be of benefit if done at the right time and place. And I don't think that any one particular training program is a one size fits all or even superior for a particular individual but rather that VARIETY is the key to continued gains. I think it just gets harder and harder the longer you've been weight training to continue to get significant gains (without using any type of drugs) because your body just gets to the point where it has pretty much adapted to everything you can think of to throw at it. Those are my thoughts anyway.

the old saying is "everything works...for 3 weeks"


the only time Id even DREAM of using HIT would be at the end of a long series of other workouts. In other words youd start the year or whatever off with high volume work which would increase to a certain level (to build work capacity) and then gradually decrease volume over a few months to "cash in" that work capacity for great gains.

But after a while on HIT you will have NO "work capacity" left. Once you hit the wall there youve really hit the wall and there is no real place to go but down and you'll have to start building up the volume again to restore some work capacity to the body


Hey, im not telling you or anyone in particular what to do...im just saying dont be swayed by pseudo intellectual/philisophical arguments that are mainly good at selling courses.

Ask yourself why no real athletes and maybe only a few pro bb'ers use HIT.

Compare the career ending injuries of someone like Dorian Yates with the long term health of "volume guys" like Haney or Vince Taylor.

once u take away all volume and go only with intensity its really only a matter of time before the muscle get stronger than the tendons since the tendon needs higher volume (at lower intensity) to be built up etc. Ask Dorian about that.

[Luke Whippo]

Originally Posted by John Prophet

the old saying is "everything works...for 3 weeks"

this and your entire post of "off", your putting too much thought into this, it's not that difficult.



dr.drden.com is the forum for HIT, and he has a book (which I've not read, but hear is on top of what HIT was meant?) I don't care for most of the posts on that board expect a certain few who lived the Arthur Jones way of training, and where there in that time.

[BuffedWildCat]

Originally Posted by John Prophet

the old saying is "everything works...for 3 weeks"

That sounds about right, heh.

the only time Id even DREAM of using HIT would be at the end of a long series of other workouts. In other words youd start the year or whatever off with high volume work which would increase to a certain level (to build work capacity) and then gradually decrease volume over a few months to "cash in" that work capacity for great gains.

Thus using it as a form of periodization. That approach would seem logical. I mean especially since you really shouldn't keep continually hitting your body with high volume or at least not high volume AND high intensity. I have a tendency to do both most of the time, I really need to periodize more. I guess my problem is that I've never really sat down and made a yearly plan. I pretty much stay to the same volume and intensity year round. If anything this thread has made me realize that I need to change things up, perhaps even go ahead and create some type of yearly periodization schedule.

But after a while on HIT you will have NO "work capacity" left. Once you hit the wall there youve really hit the wall and there is no real place to go but down and you'll have to start building up the volume again to restore some work capacity to the body

Agreed. As with any training program, it's definitely not something I'd want to stick to year round.

once u take away all volume and go only with intensity its really only a matter of time before the muscle get stronger than the tendons since the tendon needs higher volume (at lower intensity) to be built up etc. Ask Dorian about that.

Interesting, that is something I was not aware of. Of course now I'll have to go do some research on that. Good stuff.

[Luke Whippo]

Originally Posted by Luke Whippo

it's not that difficult.

I take that back, it is difficult, very difficult, to the point where most will not like it and trash it, or persuede others not to use it.

[bbiggum]

once you can't go up in weight you use high intensity advanced training , like static holds, negatives, forced reps, extra rest after you do this, and change exercises, instead of doing the same thing year after year with little progress like most volume lifters

[John Prophet]

funny, even though I am nearing 40 ive made more progress than at any other time...coincidentally im using the highest volume (by far) than ive ever used.

When I was a kid I putzed around with low volume stuff thinking I was "smarter" than the 5x5 guys. I may have been smarter but they were bigger and stronger, lol.

When I was 38 I went on a high volume Sheiko powerlifting routine. OPPOSITE of any HIT principles because it was mega volume with nothing coming close to failure. Boom, added 40 to my bench in 6 weeks.

[John Prophet]

Originally Posted by BuffedWildCat

Thus using it as a form of periodization. That approach would seem logical. I mean especially since you really shouldn't keep continually hitting your body with high volume or at least not high volume AND high intensity. I have a tendency to do both most of the time, I really need to periodize more. I guess my problem is that I've never really sat down and made a yearly plan. I pretty much stay to the same volume and intensity year round. If anything this thread has made me realize that I need to change things up, perhaps even go ahead and create some type of yearly periodization schedule.

I am highly influenced by the "Russian manuals" They are weightlifting or athletic manuals and very theoretical in nature. They have no "routines" but instead are just heavy in theory and principles.

They fully detail year long plans and even 4 year plans (for olympic athletes)

So I try to take ideas from that back over into powerlifting and now bodybuilding.

I have written some longs threads about it...mostly just pondering out loud. There are many things to learn

Russian training methods by JP http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=848824

Overtraining/Overreaching...basic concepts explained by JP
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=973527

JP periodization breakdown
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=886032

Originally Posted by buffedwildcat

Interesting, that is something I was not aware of. Of course now I'll have to go do some research on that. Good stuff.

yep, for example the Russians explain that if the tendons arent built up early in the year with voluminous, low or moderate intensity work, they will probably be damaged when the athletes peaks at record strength levels come competition time.

So if a guy NEVER does any high volume or rehab type work and he only does low volume/hi intensity..its only a matter of time before he has issues unless he just gets lucky

[Luke Whippo]

John, why do YOU keep making this a HIT -vs- high volume crap debate?

it's silly, and guess what low volume (and high reps) is great for tendons!!!

[John Prophet]

side issue---there is a reason why 9 out of 10 HIT guys wont post a pic, lol...think about it

[Luke Whippo]

I don't need to see pics to know good training!!!

Some people don't feel the need (or desire) to show pics of themsleves on the internet.

so these are your reasons for not liking high intenisty workouts?, okay.

it's not THAT difficult to get big, train hard and eat.

[John Prophet]

hehe...going one rep short of failure IS intense by any measure. if its not then you are doing something very wrong

[terracotta]

Originally Posted by John Prophet

hehe...going one rep short of failure IS intense by any measure. if its not then you are doing something very wrong

Yeah.. I much prefer to stop 1 rep short of failure. It works just fine. You *can* stop at failure on the last set of each exercise, but I wouldn't do it often as it is a quick way to overtrain.

I really like the set/rep bible.. I think it explains well what certain set/rep parameters are good for. But I am a Waterbury fan.

[BuffedWildCat]

Hmmm... I'm gonna have to read thru most of that as soon as I have some more time. I've pretty much been training at a pretty high volume (not sure what constitutes high volume but I do 22 sets for back for example) and going to failure 99% of the time I'd say. Well, actually there was a time when I was going light one week, higher reps, not going to failure. I was thinking about starting that again. Right now I am just looking for alternate ways to train to try and get my strength gains coming quicker cause I still have not made it back to my pre-pregnancy strength yet and my son will be 2 at the end of the month (of course I didn't lift at all for about 8 months). I may just be expecting too much tho since I am cutting. I've never had my calories this low before, 1800 calories, so that actually may be the only reason I'm not progressing in strength like I think I should be.

[terracotta]

BWC, I've been training in the lower rep range (24ish) and doing high frequency, and I'm also on a bit of a cut (eating about 1800 cals myself). I've been able to gain some of my strength back pretty fast.

Personally, I do good with 4x6-10 when I'm bulking. But for cutting the 3x8 and 8x3 seems to work better. I'm doing a variant on total body training, and I like the principles of it, which are:

Originally Posted by http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=508031

1) They train every major muscle group three times each week.
2) They keep intensity levels sufficient without overindulgence.
3) They choose a training volume that can be maintained along with the stressors of life.
4) They execute compound, multi-joint exercises that have been shown to produce the most hypertrophy.
5) They keep each training session as brief as possible.
6) They allow at least 48 hours of recovery between workouts.

First you think, how could that work, but surprisingly I am fine. I only do 4 exercises each workout, and I do a workout every second day.

To do total body training while on a caloric deficit, you want to stay in that 24-36 rep range, and not do high reps like in the T-nation article on total body training.