A little info, on how great things are going in S. Africa.

[dave22]

Ten Years After Apartheid -
The Raw Facts
By Jan Lamprecht
African Crisis.org
5-9-4

South Africa's first "democratic election" was held on 27th April 1994.

Here are the things you will never see in the major news media regarding post-Apartheid South Africa...

* In 10 years, 1+ million South Africans, mostly blacks, lost their jobs due to the ANC's creeping socialism

* Unemployment is at a staggering 45%+ - much worse than under white rule & worse than the 30% unemployment in the USA during the Great Depression

* 1 million whites stand to lose their jobs in the coming years to Affirmative Action

* 1,450+ White commercial farmers were murdered & our food production is being threatened by "Land Reform"

* They say by 2014, 30% of commercial farmland will be owned by blacks
though I think it will happen much sooner & on a much bigger scale

* 115,000 land claims by blacks have been processed so far - and millions of hectares of land have been handed over to them

* There are farms in South Africa, which were prosperous when run by whites, which were handed over to blacks. These farms then collapsed after 2+ years of black management and are now derelict

* We are the rape capital of the world... it is conservatively estimated that we have 50,000 rapes per annum

* 21,500 children were raped in 2000

* 40% of rape survivors are under 18...

* 1,231 children under 5 were raped in 13 months by blacks believing in AIDS myths. Many babies who are raped die...

* We are now an international drug-smuggling route, comparable to Colombia...

* We export cannabis grown by blacks...

* We are the largest users of mandrax in the world...

* 150-200 Police are shot dead annually by violent criminals...

* Our Police have the highest suicide rate in the world...

* Our society is 7 times more violent (per capita) than the USA...

* In violent crimes, we match Russia & Colombia...

* Crime is so high the Govt put a moratorium on the release of crime statistics for a year & fudged them ever since...

* The Democratic Alliance (conservatively) estimates there are 300,000 robberies per annum

* Our prisons are often filled to capacity (170,000+) & then thousands are let go, sometimes without being charged...

* In January 2004, it was reported that some of our prisons are 300% over capacity...

* In March 2004, it was reported that the prison population was 180,000...

* Mandela's "Birthday Present" to the country (yes they used those words), was to release 9,000 criminals...

* Murderers have been "forgiven" by our Presidents, only to murder again...

* On 3rd March 2004, on SABC TV3 News it was announced that to "Celebrate Ten Years of Democracy" they might let thousands of prisoners go free...

* More prisons have been built after Apartheid but even that is not enough to cope with the crime wave...

* More blacks are in our prisons after Apartheid than before. (They no longer fear the Police)...

* The ANC LOVES criminals. They gave them the vote! It was announced that over 100,000 prisoners would be registered & allowed to vote

* Some criminals were afraid of being registered to vote. They feared if their finger-prints were taken they'd be implicated in other yet undiscovered crimes! (My question is how they can be in prison in the first place without being fingerprinted?? Strange things happen in this country!)

* We had 10 years of peace, with no international sanctions and yet, the much-awaited boom never came

* Our socialist economy dribbles along. GDP growth is estimated at 1.3% per annum which compares weakly with (sometimes) double digit growth rates under white rule.

* The Democratic Alliance estimates that 6% GDP growth is possible even now if the economy was run better.

* In the Johannesburg (Gauteng) area, 80% of self-help schemes for blacks have failed since 1994

* Let there be no illusions where the ANC wants to take us. They support & give money to: Zimbabwe, Haiti & DRC (Zaire) who are ruled by Socialist Dictators who suppress even the blacks!

* In the April 2004 election the ANC finally attained its goal of getting 66% vote

* This means they can change the constitution at will and no other political party can stop them

* This is what Robert Mugabe was able to do before he took 95% of the land from 4,500 white farmers

* The ANC got 70% of the votes (although the IFP complained that there were 42 election irregularities in KwaZulu/Natal alone)

* Now that we are officially, and legally the latest One Party State in Africa, we will walk the path of others like Zimbabwe where eventually nobody, not even the blacks, have any freedom any more...

* South Africa's economy, employment & crime rates were better when the world hated us and we had civil strife

* In the end, the only winners were the handful of the new Wealthy Black Super Elite...


http://www.africancrisis.org/Ph_TenYears.asp

[Jimineye]

Be prepared to be called a racist.. I was when I posted about discrimination against whites in Nigeria.

African nations need to get their **** together.

[BuckWyld]

1 some of the points do seem sort of racist

2 S. Africa certainly has problems, but I don't think anyone could really argue that it is worse than 10 years ago.

[Jimineye]

Originally posted by BuckWyld
1 some of the points do seem sort of racist

2 S. Africa certainly has problems, but I don't think anyone could really argue that it is worse than 10 years ago.

Facts aren't racist, they may seem that way, but they are facts nonetheless.

2. I think this post does a pretty good job of arguing the point.

[wayoutwest]

Originally posted by BuckWyld
1 some of the points do seem sort of racist

2 S. Africa certainly has problems, but I don't think anyone could really argue that it is worse than 10 years ago.

nothin is worse than apartheid...

[BuckWyld]

Originally posted by Jimineye
Facts aren't racist, they may seem that way, but they are facts nonetheless.

2. I think this post does a pretty good job of arguing the point.

* We export cannabis grown by blacks...

^ I would call this racist, and I would say with out any supporting evidence it is far from a fact.

* They say by 2014, 30% of commercial farmland will be owned by blacks
though I think it will happen much sooner & on a much bigger scale

^ this one seems to have some racist implications considering that blacks probably make up more than 30% of the population, and blacks owning farmland is not a bad thing in and of its self


* 115,000 land claims by blacks have been processed so far - and millions of hectares of land have been handed over to them

^ I don't see blacks getting back some of the farm land that had belonged to them before it was taken by white settlers as a bad thing.

* There are farms in South Africa, which were prosperous when run by whites, which were handed over to blacks. These farms then collapsed after 2+ years of black management and are now derelict

^ this one seems a little shady too, like he is saying blacks in general are not fit to own or run farms

* South Africa's economy, employment & crime rates were better when the world hated us and we had civil strife

^this one seems to say that S. Africa was better before the end of Apartide which I would consider a racist remark

[wayoutwest]

Originally posted by Jimineye
Facts aren't racist, they may seem that way, but they are facts nonetheless.

2. I think this post does a pretty good job of arguing the point.

facts can be biased...depends on how u present them...

[Jimineye]

Originally posted by BuckWyld
* We export cannabis grown by blacks...

^ I would call this racist, and I would say with out any supporting evidence it is far from a fact.

* They say by 2014, 30% of commercial farmland will be owned by blacks
though I think it will happen much sooner & on a much bigger scale

^ this one seems to have some racist implications considering that blacks probably make up more than 30% of the population, and blacks owning farmland is not a bad thing in and of its self


* South Africa's economy, employment & crime rates were better when the world hated us and we had civil strife

^this one seems to say that S. Africa was better before the end of Apartide which I would consider a racist remark

I will agree with you about the cannabis one, on how that sounds somewhat racist. But it is true that they do export cannabis grown by blacks.

The second one I disagree with on how that is racist. It has been argued that in Nigeria where land distribution is taking place that land was more productive when it was run by white farmers. I'm not saying that blacks couldn't run the farms productively, but the whites have an advantage for doing it for hundreds of years and whites tend to be more educated than blacks in South Africa.

I don't really see the last remark as racist, mainly because it doesn't specifically say anything about blacks. Also if it's true that crime rate was lower pre-apparteid then it is just a fact. I disagree with apartheid, but like I said before S. Africa and Africa in general need to get their **** together. There should have been a better transition than general anarchy when apparteid ended.

[Jimineye]

Originally posted by wayoutwest
facts can be biased...depends on how u present them...

Facts are facts. I.E. 2+2=4. I can have a total bias presentation but if it's backed up by facts it's factual none the less.

[wayoutwest]

Originally posted by Jimineye
I will agree with you about the cannabis one, on how that sounds somewhat racist. But it is true that they do export cannabis grown by blacks.

The second one I disagree with on how that is racist. It has been argued that in Nigeria where land distribution is taking place that land was more productive when it was run by white farmers. I'm not saying that blacks couldn't run the farms productively, but the whites have an advantage for doing it for hundreds of years and whites tend to be more educated than blacks in South Africa.

I don't really see the last remark as racist, mainly because it doesn't specifically say anything about blacks. Also if it's true that crime rate was lower pre-apparteid then it is just a fact. I disagree with apartheid, but like I said before S. Africa and Africa in general need to get their **** together. There should have been a better transition than general anarchy when apparteid ended.

i hate to say it...but ur correct about the last bit...

however...any suggestions on how they can get their act together

[BuckWyld]

Originally posted by Jimineye
I will agree with you about the cannabis one, on how that sounds somewhat racist. But it is true that they do export cannabis grown by blacks.

The second one I disagree with on how that is racist. It has been argued that in Nigeria where land distribution is taking place that land was more productive when it was run by white farmers. I'm not saying that blacks couldn't run the farms productively, but the whites have an advantage for doing it for hundreds of years and whites tend to be more educated than blacks in South Africa.

but how can the author say that whites are not also growing pot? I am sure there are at least a few.

ok so the whites have more experience, does that mean that the blacks should not be given a chance to learn after years of oppression.

btw I added some more in my previous post.


edit - I see now why this stuff appeals to you Jimineye, I found this on the site "Conservatives & Anti-Communists are far too passive - especially here in Africa."
:-p

oh and there is some very racist stuff on the rest of the site like this
http://www.africancrisis.org/default2.asp

[Jimineye]

Originally posted by wayoutwest
i hate to say it...but ur correct about the last bit...

however...any suggestions on how they can get their act together

Well in my opinion land reform is not the way to go about doing it, since I think that will just build up more animosity and anger between the two races, and just further divide the country (this is in reference to S. Africa). Also S. Africa is being plagued by AID's which is another reason why that country is in turmoil. I think the key though to S. Africa in getting their act together is by being educated. By building better school systems, that way people learn from an early age about their nation, about diseases, etc.

Also I highly doubt it will happen in this generation but laws need to be fair to both blacks and whites and not favor one over the other. Since Appartheid fell only a little while ago I highly doubt that this generation will accept laws that regard both races equally.

[BuckWyld]

the other thing about the site is that almost every news article has some thing about blacks or whites, even if it does not seem to have any impact on the story for example

S.Africa: Black Woman throws Newborn Baby in River

I dont see that her being black has anything to do with anything

[wayoutwest]

Originally posted by Jimineye
Well in my opinion land reform is not the way to go about doing it, since I think that will just build up more animosity and anger between the two races, and just further divide the country (this is in reference to S. Africa). Also S. Africa is being plagued by AID's which is another reason why that country is in turmoil. I think the key though to S. Africa in getting their act together is by being educated. By building better school systems, that way people learn from an early age about their nation, about diseases, etc.

Also I highly doubt it will happen in this generation but laws need to be fair to both blacks and whites and not favor one over the other. Since Appartheid fell only a little while ago I highly doubt that this generation will accept laws that regard both races equally.

good suggestions...

but being developed countries....isn't is easy to just say....'oh theyd be better off they did this, this n this.....'

in reality its much more complicated...

[Jimineye]

Originally posted by BuckWyld
but how can the author say that whites are not also growing pot? I am sure there are at least a few.

ok so the whites have more experience, does that mean that the blacks should not be given a chance to learn after years of oppression.

btw I added some more in my previous post.


edit - I see now why this stuff appeals to you Jimineye, I found this on the site "Conservatives & Anti-Communists are far too passive - especially here in Africa."
:-p

I agree that whites sell pot there, there is no question about it. But I think that can be assumed that whites sell pot as well without having to mention in it.

I think the blacks that want to farm should be required to have the schooling and be educated on how to run the farms, or have an apprenticeship type thing in order to do so. The same goes for whites that are interested in farming and haven't done so before. That way productivity would remain the same as when the whites controlled it, and once the blacks and whites recieved proper schooling on the farming production would be even better when they get the land.

The blacks getting land back to me would be like the U.S government taking land away from whites and giving it back to the Indians and Mexicans. Yes we took their land, but the way society worked was different back then, it was conquer or be conquered. Now days in the U.S everyone has an opportunity to get land, no matter the race. So I don't see giving the land back as a good way to start S. Africa off, only as a way to build up more animosity.

I think I have answered your point on the farms collapsing in this post and previous ones in this thread.

I agree that Conservatives are too passive, that is why I like to speak my voice. Liberals and the left in general are more outspoken in general and get their agenda achieved because of it.

[BuckWyld]

Some more of the great things the people on this site have to say

Did Apartheid kill Millions of Blacks?

I followed a thread where people were discussing my article "Ten Years After Apartheid: The Raw Facts".

To my amazement, some foreigner, who seemed to be an African American, made the statement that "Apartheid killed MILLIONS of Blacks!" I nearly fell off my chair.

Every now and then on my website I get someone who wants to come up with this argument that Apartheid killed so terribly many blacks.

I like to ask them for a number. So how many blacks did you read/hear/believe were killed by Apartheid?

And so far, not one person has come back to me with an answer - not even a vague one.

Why? Because... there are all these insinuations of how cruel Apartheid was, and how horrible it was... but nobody can ever even guess at the actual number killed - or any number. Its all so vague... Which says to me, they have no facts. There are hardly any books or reference works out there with a valid count. And if they were to see a count, then it would look so silly compared to other historical facts.

Let me explain. If you want to know how many people were killed in World War II, you can look it up in a history book or encyclopaedia, and it will say: 50 million. Historians will tell you - so many died during the American Civil war. So many died, during the Napoleonic wars. We even know how many Romans were killed at Cannae by Hannibal more than 2,000 years ago. We know numbers, about things that happened - even thousands of years ago.

We can read that 49 million died in the Chinese Civil war, or 30,000 died during the Rhodesian Bush war, or Mugabe murdered 20,000 blacks in 1985 or one million were murdered during the Rwandan genocide.

But ask anyone how many people were murdered by Apartheid and see if anyone can give you any type of figure that sounds, even vaguely authoritative. And 99% of the time... nobody can tell you... because such figures, if they exist, can't be known to many. And maybe if they were broadly known, wouldn't appear so impressive. Instead, vague insinuations sound much more impressive.

Yeah... so Apartheid killed millions? Well... if so... where are the graves? Consider... Saddam didn't kill millions... he killed some tens of thousands... but they found the graves and remains. There is much film footage showing the million Rwandans who died. But where will you find the remains of, or the film footage of great massacres of blacks by White South Africans?

You won't find any... because it doesn't exist.

In fact, if some of you will cast your minds back to 1994 when the world's attention was focussed on South Africa, and every news agency of note on the planet was here for our first "democratic elections", then maybe you will remember the following story: Some black guy came forward saying he knew where Mass Graves of murdered blacks existed. So the news media rushed off to report on this. He said: Dig over there... So they brought in bulldozers and earth-moving equipment and dug all day long while the cameras were rolling... to film the first Mass Graves of blacks slaughtered by the Evil White Apartheid Regime... but they found nothing!! "Damn!" said the black guy, "I forgot... its not there... its over THERE!!!"... so they dug in the new spot... And so it went on for a whole week, digging here, digging there... nothing being found until everyone lost interest. But nobody went back to say: WE NEVER FOUND THE MASS GRAVES THAT LYING BLACK BASTARD SAID EXISTED!! No... everyone just quietly forgot it all. So no - there are no mass graves... THEY DON'T EXIST EXCEPT IN PEOPLE'S IMAGINATIONS.

The concept that Apartheid was this great slaughter-house of black people is a vague propaganda concept that has no place in reality, and nobody, not even the opponents of Apartheid can honestly come up with any number of dead that can be correlated with the known facts.

What was Apartheid's most brutal moment? Ah! They will tell you the Sharpeville Massacre!! Everybody has heard of the Sharpville massacre where they mowed the blacks down with machine-guns. Sure. So how many died? Well, even according to the ANC, 69 blacks were shot. Oh! They were shot in the back running away! Yeah... like that makes it worse. As if the Rwandans did not shoot people in the back, or the Russians, Chinese and NAZIs didn't do the same!!

Still... 69 dead - that's a far cry from MILLIONS don't you think?

Still no numbers?

The ANC plays the same game. A government minister, speaking in parliament one day, a few years ago said: "AIDS has killed even more people than Apartheid!"

WOW!!!

So how many people does AIDS kill? Well, currently its estimated AIDS kills over 250,000 people (most of which are black), every year. Millions have already died...

So what is he saying? Apartheid killed hundreds of thousands of blacks? Apartheid killed maybe a million or maybe SEVERAL MILLION?

Its a nice slur... but again... are there any historians who have added up the numbers and then what did they come up with?

Well, I've only heard one number - EVER. I can't remember the source. But it said that Apartheid killed 20,000 blacks during the 48 years the country was run under that system.

That works out to: 416 blacks killed per annum or, just over 1.1 black deaths per day. Hmmmm... more than 400 blacks are killed on the roads during an average Easter weekend...

Funny... Robert Mugabe, in 1985 alone, sent in the Korean trained 5th Brigade and killed 20,000 blacks in 1985 alone. And yes... the bodies did exist... they found them thrown down wells... and entire villages were wiped out.

Let's take the Rwandan genocide where 1 million were killed. Let me point out, that its not the first genocide Rwanda has had either. They have had genocide there before.

Consider this: If 1 million blacks were killed in Rwanda (which has a population of less than that of South Africa), then that is equivalent to FIFTY TIMES the number of blacks who died under Apartheid in 48 years!!

One million black Angolans died in their 25 year civil war.

If you go through Africa, country by country, and consider the various atrocities and black on black violence that took place there, you will find that blacks killed tens of millions of other blacks, and many times, nobody said a thing about it.

Consider that in the DRC (formerly Zaire), there was a war a few years ago when the Marxist Kabila was under attack. Eleven black nations were involved in that. 2.5 million blacks died. That is more than 125 times the number of blacks supposedly killed by Apartheid. But nobody says anything about that.

The real reason they jump all over the White South Africans is because - they were WHITE. And we have this whole double standard on this planet that whites are not allowed to kill blacks. Blacks can kill whites - and that's pretty cool and wonderful when it happens, because the white buggers had it coming to them ANYWAY!!! And blacks can kill blacks - as many as they want, as horrifically as they want - and its all fine and dandy and nobody will even bat an eye-lid at it. But when a white does anything! Woe to him!! When the murder victim is white and the murderer is black - its cool. The white dog got what was coming to him!!

I'm not even sure how accurate the 20,000 deaths under Apartheid is. It is a figure I heard once on TV. It may even be overblown. But when I heard it - I laughed - because in the grand scheme of things on this planet its minor trivia.

I have yet to see a proper historian assigning a value to the number of blacks killed under Apartheid, and to see how he arrived at that. But this notion that Apartheid slaughtered hundreds of thousands, probably MILLIONS of blacks is a load of rubbish. Anyone who even opens his mouth to insinuate such a thing deserves to have his teeth kicked out - because there's not one sliver of evidence to support that ridiculous notion.

Jan.

[Jimineye]

Originally posted by BuckWyld
the other thing about the site is that almost every news article has some thing about blacks or whites, even if it does not seem to have any impact on the story for example

S.Africa: Black Woman throws Newborn Baby in River

I dont see that her being black has anything to do with anything

True, I'm at work so I can't check out the site on my own right now. A news article shouldn't say "black woman" since it's just reporting the news and not trying to paint a description.

I will though describe a person as black, hispanic, asian etc when I'm telling a story though to help paint a picture in the persons mind, not to be racist.

[Jimineye]

Originally posted by wayoutwest
good suggestions...

but being developed countries....isn't is easy to just say....'oh theyd be better off they did this, this n this.....'

in reality its much more complicated...

No doubt it's easier to say it. But our country was once a developing nation as well so we can offer some valuable advice to developing nations of today.

I don't live in Africa so I don't know enough about the day to day living and all the politics over there just what I get off of BBC and Yahoo.

[fireman_x]

Originally posted by Jimineye
Be prepared to be called a racist.. I was when I posted about discrimination against whites in Nigeria.

African nations need to get their **** together.

This shows how much you know about African countries. It was Zimbabwe, which is located to the north east of South Africa that you made your useless thread about. Nigeria is located thousands of miles away in West Africa, and really the only whites there are working for the oil industry. Although it has been said that some Zimbabwean farmers that were misplaced by Mugabe might move to Nigeria, since quite a bit of farmland has been ignored due to the oil industry boom 30yrs ago but that won't happen if the Muslim against Christian violence continues.

http://www.africancrisis.org/NewsVie...Sort=D&Page=1&

[Jimineye]

Originally posted by fireman_x
This shows how much you know about African countries. It was Zimbabwe, which is located to the north east of South Africa that you made your useless thread about. Nigeria is located thousands of miles away in West Africa, and really the only whites there are working for the oil industry. Although it has been said that some Zimbabwean farmers that were misplaced by Mugabe might move to Nigeria, since quite a bit of farmland has been ignored due to the oil industry boom 30yrs ago but that won't happen if the Muslim against Christian violence continues.

http://www.africancrisis.org/NewsVie...Sort=D&Page=1&

I got mixed up, I make mistakes. I posted in a thread about Nigeria just awhile ago. Nice to see your back with your flamebait posts.

[fireman_x]

Originally posted by Jimineye
I got mixed up, I make mistakes. I posted in a thread about Nigeria just awhile ago. Nice to see your back with your flamebait posts.

Actually admitting to making mistakes, I never thought I'd see the day. Calling my post flamebait is laughable, you take shots at everyone and anyone the first chance you get.

[irpker]

Facts do not exist independent of interpretive lenses.

[BuckWyld]

Originally posted by Jimineye


The blacks getting land back to me would be like the U.S government taking land away from whites and giving it back to the Indians and Mexicans. Yes we took their land, but the way society worked was different back then, it was conquer or be conquered. Now days in the U.S everyone has an opportunity to get land, no matter the race. So I don't see giving the land back as a good way to start S. Africa off, only as a way to build up more animosity.

The problem is that the blacks had nothing, before the end of Apartied they had no chance. You had the minority of the population controlling pretty much everything, and that just doesnt work. The blacks needed some of the land to give them a chance. even with some of the land it will probably take decades for them to catch up.

anyway that article specifically and the site ingeneral have racist overtones and as a result I dont think you can really accept the article as good facts

[dixon]

This is a legitimate question, I wonder why there have never been any prosperous black civilizations?

[fireman_x]

Originally posted by BuckWyld
The problem is that the blacks had nothing, before the end of Apartied they had no chance. You had the minority of the population controlling pretty much everything, and that just doesnt work. The blacks needed some of the land to give them a chance. even with some of the land it will probably take decades for them to catch up.

anyway that article specifically and the site ingeneral have racist overtones and as a result I dont think you can really accept the article as good facts

You unlike a few others in this thread, understand that these social changes will take time to occur. It's impossible for one segment of society to be oppressed , gain freedom, then have everything automaticly balance out. The scale was tipped in favor for the whites for quite sometime, now it's somewhat in favor for the blacks, but it will eventually balance out. Assassinator stated in another thread a while back that S.A. was better under apartheid rule, it was better, but for whites only. Now that blacks have some power the whites believe that they are being treated unfairly. The AIDS epidemic and the high crime rate are the biggest problems that S.A. faces right now.

On another note: Land displacement in Southern Africa occured up until the early 80's.

[fireman_x]

Originally posted by dixon
This is a legitimate question, I wonder why there have never been any prosperous black civilizations?

There have been plenty. Africans didn't conquer or try to conquer the world like the Europeans did, but if you do some research on the Nubians and the Kingdom of Kush, you will find that they controled a large portion of Africa at one time. Nubian horsemen along with Hannibal, almost defeated the Roman empire before it got off the ground. Colonialism by the Europeans created ethnic and geographical tensions that still exist today. Rwanda is an example of that.

[BigKazWSM747]

Originally posted by Jimineye
Facts aren't racist, they may seem that way, but they are facts nonetheless.

2. I think this post does a pretty good job of arguing the point.

I agree S. Africa is definitely worse off economically.

Civil rights/liberties wise although it is not perfect by any means it is better than it was under Apartheid as the majority are no longer as oppressed and the minority is not as oppressed as the majority once was.

[dixon]

Originally posted by fireman_x
There have been plenty. Africans didn't conquer or try to conquer the world like the Europeans did, but if you do some research on the Nubians and the Kingdom of Kush, you will find that they controled a large portion of Africa at one time. Nubian horsemen along with Hannibal, almost defeated the Roman empire before it got off the ground. Colonialism by the Europeans created ethnic and geographical tensions that still exist today. Rwanda is an example of that.

The Kingdom of Kush and the "Nubians" were basically Nile dwellers, going as far South as Sudan, IIRC. These people are basically a mix of the Egyptian heritage that was very mediterranean and not typically "black". I guess you could call this a semi-prosperous civilization if you wished, but really, European civilizations that coexisted around the same time-frames were much superior.

[th3 gr34t3st]

Originally posted by dixon
This is a legitimate question, I wonder why there have never been any prosperous black civilizations?

there have been a few but the never expanded out of the continent of africa. one reason for the lack of prosperous black civilizations is because the average black is more high strung tha the average white(read a psychology book.....it's not racist) and dont respond well to being ordered around and oppressed. they are more likely to rise up against oppressors and fight the government.

[CITADEL]

Originally posted by dixon
This is a legitimate question, I wonder why there have never been any prosperous black civilizations?

I remember seeing a show about the KKK, and one of the guys said that exact samething for black nations around the world and communities in the states. Not saying what you said it racist or anything, but it got me thinking. I'm sure there are some legitimate reasons behind it.