Police Officers

[DK444]

http://break.com/index/sheriff-allow...respass2b.html

stuff like that pains me to watch. At least this guy knows how to stand up for his rights without being a jackass.

[Dreamscapes]

I sure hope to see a follow-up on this sometime.

I love the police officer's "well, if you have nothing to hide" statement.

What a ****ing douche. Even if the guy w/ the cam is not correct that they would need a warrant, that statement reeks of absolute stupidity.

[DK444]

Originally Posted by Dreamscapes

I sure hope to see a follow-up on this sometime.

I love the police officer's "well, if you have nothing to hide" statement.

What a ****ing douche. Even if the guy w/ the cam is not correct that they would need a warrant, that statement reeks of absolute stupidity.

"This happened like two years ago. The guy was cited for violations, taken to court, and paid hefty fines. Neither the inspector nor the officer were in the wrong. Sorry, thats just the way it is. IT IS OVER."

that is what someone on that website commented in the video. Not sure if it is true or not.

[viper2510]

damn that guy knows his ****....told them good

[TheCon]

wow this guy is a boss. straight owned. hope he sues and wins. can't wait for update.

Edit: Even if he was in violation like the comment stated, it gave them no right to trespass without probable cause and a warrant.

[DK444]

Originally Posted by TheCon

wow this guy is a boss. straight owned. hope he sues and wins. can't wait for update.

someone posted an "update" under the video comments saying the guy had to pay fines and got multiple citations, but not sure how true that is.

[CoorsLight]

i hate women. cant do things themselves have to go get a big bad cop. wat a vagina

[Project_BelAir]

The guy sounds like daffy duck..

[Chris Lee]

LaPorte county Sheriffs Department... wow, can't believe this happened.

[jco81]

http://www.ai.org/legislative/ic/cod...l#IC16-20-1-23

[efini84]

regardless of who was in the wrong, that guy rocks. most people would just roll over because there's a badge in sight.

[OliverSamsonite]

The guy was not "moving around dirt" on his property, he was putting in a septic system himself without permitting and was dumping raw sewage into the water table.

He had previously threatened the inspector, hence the sheriff escort.

Per a thread on this on another forum, the guy lost in court and had to sell part of his land to pay off his fines.

[Chris Lee]

Originally Posted by efini84

regardless of who was in the wrong, that guy rocks. most people would just roll over because there's a badge in sight.

Couldn't agree more. I would have demanded probable cause/reasonable suspicion as this guy did.

[MrGuitar]

While he may have been in the wrong, it's nice to see someone stand up to the police.

[OliverSamsonite]

Originally Posted by MrGuitar

While he may have been in the wrong, it's nice to see someone stand up to the police.

He didn't stand up to anybody,he was a coward hiding behind his camera.He knew he had broken the law when he was putting in his own septic tank without a permit.

[MrGuitar]

Originally Posted by OliverSamsonite

He didn't stand up to anybody,he was a coward hiding behind his camera.He knew he had broken the law when he was putting in his own septic tank without a permit.

he did all he could, do you want him to punch the cop or what?

[YUL]

wow, strong moron "constitution" this and "constitution" that.

strong lack of interpersonal skills.

[Snafu]

Interesting video. I can't really comment because a.) I don't know the entire story and b.) don't know the law well enough to say who was in the right.

What I will comment on and found disturbing was how both the health inspector and the sheriff didn't know whether or not they could actually come onto his property. They both seemed very unsure of what to do. The worst was when the woman entered anyway! As a government/state employee that is unacceptable.

[tomterp]

Originally Posted by DK444

http://break.com/index/sheriff-allow...respass2b.html

stuff like that pains me to watch. At least this guy knows how to stand up for his rights without being a jackass.

haha nice that lady is a the jackass so are my neighbors

[FitManJack]

Originally Posted by OliverSamsonite

He didn't stand up to anybody,he was a coward hiding behind his camera.He knew he had broken the law when he was putting in his own septic tank without a permit.

You miss the point. It doesn't matter if he was a coward, stood up, didn't stand up, had a camera, broke the law or not. The issue at hand is one of reasonable suspicion and probable cause, both of which I learned about as a Military Police officer and as a free citizen of the United States of America.

This guy could have had 20 bodies on his property, but unless reasonable suspicion was developed into probable cause by investigation and review of evidence, and said probable cause was demonstrated and proferred to the private property owner in the form of a COURT-ORDERED WARRANT, the individual has every right to deny access to his property.

The smart thing to do on the part of the local Sheriff and the health inspector is to obtain a legal warrant, which a local magistrate could provide in not much more time than it took for them all to stand around and bicker.

Even the officer was wrong with his "well, if you have nothing to hide..." comment. What blatant ignorance of the laws he is sworn to enforce. There is absolutely NO reason for a search / seizure on the part of any public servant unless due diligence is exercised and probable cause demonstrated. If the "well, if you have nothing to hide..." mentality were codified into law, you could be detained at any moment and searched for any reason...OR NO REASON AT ALL.

Again, the issue is not that this guy dumped sewage or not, but whether the health inspector produced a court-ordered warrant to inspect the property. She did not, and entered the property because the sheriff "thought" that it was okay. A warrant would have taken ten minutes before a judge on the part of the sheriff and the inspector to procure, and would have rendered any and all arguing by the property owner moot.

FMJ

[FitManJack]

Originally Posted by Snafu

Interesting video. I can't really comment because a.) I don't know the entire story and b.) don't know the law well enough to say who was in the right.

What I will comment on and found disturbing was how both the health inspector and the sheriff didn't know whether or not they could actually come onto his property. They both seemed very unsure of what to do. The worst was when the woman entered anyway! As a government/state employee that is unacceptable.

Correct on all counts...repped on recharge.

Even if local law permits warrantless searches (I highly doubt this, and if they did, it would be unconstitutional), the health inspector and the sheriff would both need to be aware of that fact, and be able to cogently explain it by section / subsection to the property owner. Instead, we see a sheriff (whose body and brain appear to be made of so much donut oil) and a health inspector who seem unsure of their capacity to enter the property. If there was even a modicum of doubt as to the legality of the search, A LEGAL WARRANT SHOULD HAVE BEEN OBTAINED.

FMJ

[All_Swoled_Up]

Originally Posted by FitManJack

You miss the point. It doesn't matter if he was a coward, stood up, didn't stand up, had a camera, broke the law or not. The issue at hand is one of reasonable suspicion and probable cause, both of which I learned about as a Military Police officer and as a free citizen of the United States of America.

This guy could have had 20 bodies on his property, but unless reasonable suspicion was developed into probable cause by investigation and review of evidence, and said probable cause was demonstrated and proferred to the private property owner in the form of a COURT-ORDERED WARRANT, the individual has every right to deny access to his property.

The smart thing to do on the part of the local Sheriff and the health inspector is to obtain a legal warrant, which a local magistrate could provide in not much more time than it took for them all to stand around and bicker.

Even the officer was wrong with his "well, if you have nothing to hide..." comment. What blatant ignorance of the laws he is sworn to enforce. There is absolutely NO reason for a search / seizure on the part of any public servant unless due diligence is exercised and probable cause demonstrated. If the "well, if you have nothing to hide..." mentality were codified into law, you could be detained at any moment and searched for any reason...OR NO REASON AT ALL.

Again, the issue is not that this guy dumped sewage or not, but whether the health inspector produced a court-ordered warrant to inspect the property. She did not, and entered the property because the sheriff "thought" that it was okay. A warrant would have taken ten minutes before a judge on the part of the sheriff and the inspector to procure, and would have rendered any and all arguing by the property owner moot.

FMJ

If the law that this guy posted

Originally Posted by jco81

http://www.ai.org/legislative/ic/cod...l#IC16-20-1-23

is accurate, a health inspector isn't required to obtain a warrant in this circumstance (not withstanding that the law may get overturned down the line for being unconstitutional). Also, if the guy did get written up and was later convicted, the evidence they found was obviously never thrown out of court. This leads me to think (until an appeals court says I'm wrong) that they had every right to enter the property under the laws that were in effect at the time....

[All_Swoled_Up]

Originally Posted by FitManJack

Correct on all counts...repped on recharge.

Even if local law permits warrantless searches (I highly doubt this, and if they did, it would be unconstitutional), the health inspector and the sheriff would both need to be aware of that fact, and be able to cogently explain it by section / subsection to the property owner. Instead, we see a sheriff (whose body and brain appear to be made of so much donut oil) and a health inspector who seem unsure of their capacity to enter the property. If there was even a modicum of doubt as to the legality of the search, A LEGAL WARRANT SHOULD HAVE BEEN OBTAINED.

FMJ

Do agree with you here for the most part but them being unsure of their legal right to enter the property doesn't change the fact of whether it was actually legal or not. If it was, it was. If it wasn't, it wasn't. If the outcome is correct, Ill have to assume they had the law on their side at the time.

[TheJuicedchase]

Originally Posted by All_Swoled_Up

If the law that this guy posted



is accurate, a health inspector isn't required to obtain a warrant in this circumstance (not withstanding that the law may get overturned down the line for being unconstitutional). Also, if the guy did get written up and was later convicted, the evidence they found was obviously never thrown out of court. This leads me to think (until an appeals court says I'm wrong) that they had every right to enter the property under the laws that were in effect at the time....

Assuming they followed the law and decided on what a "proper time" is and whether "due notice" was given.

[OliverSamsonite]

Originally Posted by FitManJack

You miss the point. It doesn't matter if he was a coward, stood up, didn't stand up, had a camera, broke the law or not. The issue at hand is one of reasonable suspicion and probable cause, both of which I learned about as a Military Police officer and as a free citizen of the United States of America.

This guy could have had 20 bodies on his property, but unless reasonable suspicion was developed into probable cause by investigation and review of evidence, and said probable cause was demonstrated and proferred to the private property owner in the form of a COURT-ORDERED WARRANT, the individual has every right to deny access to his property.

The smart thing to do on the part of the local Sheriff and the health inspector is to obtain a legal warrant, which a local magistrate could provide in not much more time than it took for them all to stand around and bicker.

Even the officer was wrong with his "well, if you have nothing to hide..." comment. What blatant ignorance of the laws he is sworn to enforce. There is absolutely NO reason for a search / seizure on the part of any public servant unless due diligence is exercised and probable cause demonstrated. If the "well, if you have nothing to hide..." mentality were codified into law, you could be detained at any moment and searched for any reason...OR NO REASON AT ALL.

Again, the issue is not that this guy dumped sewage or not, but whether the health inspector produced a court-ordered warrant to inspect the property. She did not, and entered the property because the sheriff "thought" that it was okay. A warrant would have taken ten minutes before a judge on the part of the sheriff and the inspector to procure, and would have rendered any and all arguing by the property owner moot.

FMJ

There is no Constitutional Right to damage the natural resources of the state.

And she doesn't need a warrant.That guy was spewing some real good sounding garbage standing behind that camera and you believed him.

[All_Swoled_Up]

Originally Posted by TheJuicedchase

Assuming they followed the law and decided on what a "proper time" is and whether "due notice" was given.

Exactly. But if the guy WAS actually convicted, I would think that those requirements had been demonstrated (assuming the legality of the search was questioned in court at the time).

[stealth_swimmer]

Originally Posted by OliverSamsonite

There is no Constitutional Right to damage the natural resources of the state.

And she doesn't need a warrant.That guy was spewing some real good sounding garbage standing behind that camera and you believed him.

...but how did they know that it was fine to go on his property?

[guest89]

Originally Posted by OliverSamsonite

There is no Constitutional Right to damage the natural resources of the state.

And she doesn't need a warrant.That guy was spewing some real good sounding garbage standing behind that camera and you believed him.

I have no idea if that was "garbage" or not. The funny thing is the police officer looked scared to enter the property until backup arrived, and he was clueless about the law.

[FitManJack]

Originally Posted by OliverSamsonite

There is no Constitutional Right to damage the natural resources of the state.

I never said there was; in fact, no one who has posted to this thread said any such thing. I simply said that probable cause must be demonstrated. In this case, a court may have determined it was. Based on the video alone, I don't perceive that it was. The surest demonstration of probable cause for search / seizure is a court-ordered warrant. Warrantless searches, even if codified into law on a local level, are in most cases unconstitutional. In fact, warrantless searches have been a hotly debated topic in the national news lately in case you've followed.

Originally Posted by OliverSamsonite

And she doesn't need a warrant.That guy was spewing some real good sounding garbage standing behind that camera and you believed him.

I take exception to that comment. That fellow's comments weigh very little on my knowledge of the concepts of reasonable suspicion and probable cause. In fact, that property owner, while vigorous, was not exactly the most lucid or particularly articulate of individuals. I can respect his stance on protecting his rights, but I knew all about this topic before I watched this video, thank you very much.

FMJ

[OliverSamsonite]

Lmao,this crazy nut job has called on the "Indiana Militia" to take back his down.What a douche.

http://www.apfn.net/Messageboard/07-...on.cgi.77.html