The psychological aspect of bodybuilding and why you are a hardgainer

[crazydude69]

The Reason why you are a hard gainer/The psychological aspect of bodybuilding. (This is an essay of sorts.)

To begin, I think that bodybuilding is the most psychological sport in existence. A strong mind is essential to success.

As an example, let me present a hypothetical situation. A long time Rippetoe/5x5 lifter is convinced by his friend to try a once-a-week split. Of course Rippetoe man thinks that splits are a bunch of crap that are only popular because of muscle magazines, and he proceeds to do a split for one month to prove his friend wrong. He returns at the end of his program and scoffs at his friend: ?look how crappy your split system is! I got zero results.?

Now, why is it that Rippetoe works for this particular lifter but the split system did not? (Not considering the fact that Rippetoe is a solid, functional program that will work for anyone but advanced lifters.) Rippetoe man believes that Starting Strength will work, which causes him to put 100 percent effort into it. This in turn allows him to easily associate his 100-percent-effort workouts with success, which makes his time in the gym more enjoyable. The enjoyment causes him to work harder, and the extra effort feels very rewarding and causes more enjoyment. It all builds on itself and his lifts continue to sky-rocket.

Now, the situation in the third paragraph will probably never happen, but it is a good example of how people set themselves up for failure before there is even a chance for success. (More on that later)

Another example of the psychological aspect of bodybuilding is that of body image.

A fictional aspiring bodybuilder, John Dude, has constantly been bombarded by warnings telling him to beware fat gain while bulking and avoid catabolism while cutting. Then one day John Dude gets a diet from his personal trainer which he believes contains to many calories for a safe bulk. He wakes up every morning and squeezes the extra fat he has put on. (The fat which has been there all along.) He inspects his body meticulously trying to discover were the new fat is. What do you think he will find if he is looking for new fat and believes that new fat is present? John Dude eventually despairs, doubles his cardio, and drops the diet. Clearly his mind was not adequately strong, and he struggled with a negative body image, which was only brought on by his own stigma, as his body really didn?t change much at all.

Enough with the illustrations, here is the point I am trying to make:

If you think that you are a hard-gainer, you will be a hard-gainer.

If you tell yourself that you will always be skinny, then you will always be skinny.

If you think to yourself, ?Damn, I?m extra tired this week, must be overtraining,? then you obviously don?t know how many other factors can contribute to feelings of fatigue. Your thoughts will cause you to feel even more tired, and you will ease up on your workouts, when really you didn?t need to, which will hinder your progress.

This is all my opinion, and it is the reason why I cringe every time I see someone label them selves as a hard gainer. They are setting themselves up for failure.

The flip-side of this is someone who truly does find muscle extremely difficult to come by. The reason that they are a hardgainer may not be their mind, but it might indeed be their crappy genetics. They could either plow forward and accept that it will more difficult for them than for other people to reach their goals; or they could simply use their ectomorph genetics as an excuse to half-ass it in the gym, thinking to themselves ?I?m not going to build muscle anyways, what?s the point in trying.

I have all the respect in the world for people with no-good genetics who push for a better body anyways, because I am mostly an ectomorph. I also think that most people believe their genetics to be waaaaaay worse than they actually are.

But let?s look at the other side of the coin on this mind issue. Picture a lifter who gets a diet and truly thinks that it will pack muscle on him. He obtains a program which he believes to be pure dynamite. He wakes up every morning and squeezes his new muscle in the mirror, inspecting every inch of his body to discover the fruits of his labors. The new muscle may or may not be there, but because he believes it is, it causes him to try even harder and become even more dedicated. Then, when he really starts to make gains (This is all assuming that his diet truly is good and clean and his program does provide the necessary overload for muscle growth,) he is on cloud nine, and this is why people love bodybuilding. His program was good, his diet was good, but it was his mind that allowed him to succeed.

My opinion is this: the people who expect themselves to succeed will succeed. The people who expect themselves to fail will definitely not reach their potential. People who think they are hardgainers, no matter how true that may be, need to start thinking positively to stop being hardgainers.

Would anyone else like to share their opinion on the psychological aspect of bodybuilding? Let?s keep this discussion serious please.

[RaferAlston26]

I didn't read it all but the first part sounds a lot more like the placebo effect. Yes, you'll put more effort but if you believe you'll make gains.. you'll make gains solely because your body is convinced of it. Much like you can get a disorder if you make yourself believe you have it.

[crazydude69]

Yes, the placebo effect. Thats exactly what it is, I just forgot the word, thank-you for reminding me. Its the reason why some people are 100 percent behind splits and others are 100% behind stuff like 3x a week fullbody. (to take programs from the opposite ends of the spectrum.) Its the only thing that will work for them because its the only thing that they think will work for them.

Me, I am doing a split right now, but I am planning to do a 3x a week fullbody program this summer, since I will need to get as strong as possible for the football season.

I think that to really enjoy bodybuilding and have great results you need to be very mentaly absorbed by it... almost obsessed. Notice I say great results. It is my opinion that you can get good results, or mediocre results by say, just working out, and not dieting. But to get great results, it is an advantage if you are obsessed, almost in love with what you are doing

[RaferAlston26]

Exactly. I pick and chose programs that satisfy me. I'm not going to do things just because people tell me to. If I hate it, I doubt my results will be as good as they would expect. I'm not a huge advocate of splits. I believe they should be for people who have reached a certain size and experience but regardless, they work.

I agree with your whole psychological view on bodybuilding. To create the physique or reach a point of performance you want, you have to enjoy it and dedicate. There's so many aspects. I personally love science and bodybuilding, strength training, etc is one big science. Everyday I'm trying to expand my knowledge on it and I think most people should do that. I admit my body does not reflect my knowledge, but if someone truly wants something you'll do everything in your power to get it. That's why some skinny guys stay skinny and some fat guys stay fat. lack of motivation.

[dumac]

its true this is a very phycological sport. I know that if i listen to celine dion while working out i'm not going to do as well as i would while listening to heavy metal and rock.

Another big part is getting over the hump. In the weight lifting room after school i've seen many people quit because they didn't get results right away. If you think positive thoughts the results r bound to come within a month or two and then you will be fueled by that until you hit your plateau.

[crazydude69]

What you say is true, and I have to admit that a body-part split for me right now is less than optimal. Right now it is frustrating to be obssesed because school is constantly getting in the way of eating frequently, keeping a workout schedule, and track and field season screws with leg workouts. However, when summer comes, I will be more obsessed than ever, and able to use the obsession to its full potential.

This demonstrates the need for an enviroment that is conducive to your bodybuilding mindset.

Someone who is a great example of the mental connection to bodybuilding is Serge Nuebret. Just read his thread in the IFBB section. He is constantly talking about how he loves bodybuilding, or rather is in love with it, and (This is not a direct quote) he says things like: "The body has three powers, emotional, mental and physical. Mental power is the most important."

Taking that from a man like Serge Nuebret, I think it is true.

[crazydude69]

Originally Posted by dumac

its true this is a very phycological sport. I know that if i listen to celine dion while working out i'm not going to do as well as i would while listening to heavy metal and rock.

Another big part is getting over the hump. In the weight lifting room after school i've seen many people quit because they didn't get results right away. If you think positive thoughts the results r bound to come within a month or two and then you will be fueled by that until you hit your plateau.

The hump is another very vital aspect. Thank-you very much for bringing it up.

Let me use myself as an example. When I first began working out, I knew virtually nothing about it. My program was 2 days on, one day off, and I didn't even work my back, shoulders, or my hamstrings directly. I basically did Leg Extensions, long distance running, Machine Bench press, Pec dec flyes, and direct arm work. I simply went to my basement in the morning, did my stuff, and ran in the afternoon. The workouts, however crappy, were very intense. I put complete effort into it.

Now, this program is obviously complete crap. But I believed in it. As soon as I was able to add 10 pounds to my leg Extension and do the same ammount of reps, I was hooked. I had got over the hump, and I was addicted. I still am addicted. Whenever I think I'm not making gains or become discouaged, I think back to that summer and tell myself: "you know what it takes to make gains. Now just do it!"

Once I think that all that is stopping me from making gains is some effort and focus, you can bet I try harder.

Now, a person who never gets over the hump, who never experiences gains in strength, won't be able to summon the motivation needed when diet or workouts get tough.

Edit: Obviously the reason why this worked for me was because I was a beginner, and at that stage pretty much anything with weights will cause muscle growth and neural adaptation.

On a side note, this is why SS is an amazing program for beginners. It gets them over the hump by their second trip to the gym.

[Logicalypso]

I think that you severely overestimate the psychological aspect of bodybuilding.

[CRyan64]

Originally Posted by Logicalypso

I think that you severely overestimate the psychological aspect of bodybuilding.

same.


I have a terrible time gaining upper body strength/mass, but i don't tell myself im weak ****; i try as hard as i can and i apply all the knowledge i can into my training. I put in a 100% effort.

[crazydude69]

Originally Posted by Logicalypso

I think that you severely overestimate the psychological aspect of bodybuilding.

Okay, you don't agree with me. Let's discuss.

Acording to you, I have severly over-estimated the psychological aspect of bodybuilding. Please elaborate on your opinion concerning the role that the mindset of bodybuilder plays in his sucess.

Certainly there must be a great ammount of drive and motivation present, no?

Do you agree with this statement: "Believing that you know what it takes to suceed and attempting to put that knowledge into action will lead to a greater chance of sucess than 'going through the motions'"

[crazydude69]

Originally Posted by CRyan64

same.


I have a terrible time gaining upper body strength/mass, but i don't tell myself im weak ****; i try as hard as i can and i apply all the knowledge i can into my training. I put in a 100% effort.

Even though you belive your upper body progress to be slow, how much slower do you think it would be if you didn't 100 percent effort? I think that bodybuilding for most people is a very slow process. Years, or even decades slow to achieve our ultamite goals. But what we don't realise, is the progress that we are making by actually trying is INFINTELY faster than the negative progress we would achieve if we did absolutely nothing.

Reps for "having a terrible time gaining upper body strength" but still trying, btw.

[CRyan64]

Yeah, i believe that i would be no where near where i am now if i didn't have that drive to succeed in my BB career etc, but i'm just saying that genetics and knowledge and how you apply that to your training are a huge part of BBing; and a "hard-gainer" may very well have a hard time gaining even though he's giving it a 100% effort.

[crazydude69]

Originally Posted by CRyan64

Yeah, i believe that i would be no where near where i am now if i didn't have that drive to succeed in my BB career etc, but i'm just saying that genetics and knowledge and how you apply that to your training are a huge part of BBing; and a "hard-gainer" may very well have a hard time gaining even though he's giving it a 100% effort.

Believe it or not, I completely agree with you. You seem to have misinterperted my original post, but after I read it a second time I have to admit it isn't as clear as I would have liked.

I wasn't trying to say that psychological aspects is the only factor to sucess. What I was saying was that mindset is one of the most important aspects.

This post wasn't really directed at hard-gainers who enjoy bodybuilding and put their heart and soul into it. It was directted at people who use their sub-par genetics as an excuse to NOT put their heart and soul into it. These are the people, with a sad sigh, that label themselves hardgainers and tell other poeple: "I lift weights, but the reason I'm not that strong or big or cut is because i am a hardgainer." I hate that attitude.

Another example: Two hardgainers with equal genetics follow the same program. One visualizes his goals constanlty, gives all his effort, nails his diet, etc. The other one works hard but is constantly thinking about how much better he would be doing if he wasn't a hard-gainer. Because he is expecting no results, he will probably achieve what he has set himself up for.

I don't think that people like you need to worry about being more dedicated or expecting results. But if you weren't dedicated, if you didn't expect results of yourself, would you enjoy bodybuilding as much as you do?

In my opinion, probably not.

Edit: I will check this thread tommorow morning, as it is now time to hit the sack. Its good to know that we can enjoy an intelligent discussion here and I look forward to posting again tommorow.

[RaferAlston26]

Originally Posted by CRyan64

Yeah, i believe that i would be no where near where i am now if i didn't have that drive to succeed in my BB career etc, but i'm just saying that genetics and knowledge and how you apply that to your training are a huge part of BBing; and a "hard-gainer" may very well have a hard time gaining even though he's giving it a 100% effort.

Genetics to some (including myself) is considered a copout. Maybe you'll begin to progress your training after reading this:

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=790487

Anyways, it's just all about confidence. If you're driven you'll lead yourself to knowledge. When you have led yourself to knowledge the possibilites are limitless. I take it upon myself everyday to be constantly reading. I'm always planning ahead. Maybe it's an obsession and fright in the mixture but seeing how North America is so out of shape and obese makes me disgusted. Regardless, aslong as you're determined you'll make the gains one way or another.

[LSU1]

again, another thread started by a guy who doesnt have any results and has essentially no bodybuilding experience. what kind of credability do you think you have writing this without having worked ouf for that long and achieved any results?

you BELIEVE that the mind may be important in producing muscle gains, however you havent been training long enough to know whether that is true. experience is one of the most powerful tools we have in bodybuilding. try listening/reading more and posting less

i mean damn man you are 5'11 150 with 13 inch arms and are 15 years old. what do you REALLY know about bodybuilding?

[BoSoxNatn]

I don't get it, so if I like think really hard will my brain get more biggerer???

[ThatArmyKid]

Originally Posted by LSU1

again, another thread started by a guy who doesnt have any results and has essentially no bodybuilding experience. what kind of credability do you think you have writing this without having worked ouf for that long and achieved any results?

you BELIEVE that the mind may be important in producing muscle gains, however you havent been training long enough to know whether that is true. experience is one of the most powerful tools we have in bodybuilding. try listening/reading more and posting less

i mean damn man you are 5'11 150 with 13 inch arms and are 15 years old. what do you REALLY know about bodybuilding?

You don't have to have been training for a long time and or be considered a advanced lifter, to know that your state of mind plays a big role in the way you performe in the weight room or the rate in which you gain muscle or lose fat. All you need is to have been for example a teen under stress...

[crazydude69]

Originally Posted by LSU1

again, another thread started by a guy who doesnt have any results and has essentially no bodybuilding experience. what kind of credability do you think you have writing this without having worked ouf for that long and achieved any results?

you BELIEVE that the mind may be important in producing muscle gains, however you havent been training long enough to know whether that is true. experience is one of the most powerful tools we have in bodybuilding. try listening/reading more and posting less

i mean damn man you are 5'11 150 with 13 inch arms and are 15 years old. what do you REALLY know about bodybuilding?

Thank-you, I was waiting for someone to play the age card. I think that you are not getting the idea behind this thread. I am not trying to get everyone else to start thinking the way I do and agreeing with me. I am not trying to convert people. I am presenting my opinion for discussion. So, let me ask you, who obviously has been training a long time, what do you think of my opinion? Lets forget the fact that I am 15, weigh 150 with 13 inch arms.

I am afraid that the size of a person's brain and their knowledge is not directly proportional to the size of their arms, my friend.

Please, let's be serious here. What role do you think the mind plays in bodybuilding? I would love to pick the brain of someone with so much experience. Obviously my credability is low, so I come here to discuss my ideas with like-minded people. I want to see what other people think.

[LSU1]

i find that its importance is far far down the list. diet, consistency, training program, etc are significantly more important.

it is my opinion that being a "hardgainer" has more to do with diet and training than it does with a mental approach.

furthermore, it was not my intention to disagree with what you said. my point was that at this stage in the game you dont know what works/doesnt work.

you dont know what kind of diet is most effective for bodybuilding purposes. is it a low carb diet? is it a ketogenic diet? do you thrive off a high protein and carb diet with low fats? do you thrive off of high volume training or do you have better success with more frequent training with lower volume?

there is such a thing as credibility in places like this. people who give advice to others on here should do so drawing on both factual information and their own personal experience. in the sense that you are young and have not had bodybuilding results it is my opinion that you are not that credible. credibility has to do with experience and results. you have neither at this point. so, again i repeat, read more from people like vikingman, dominik, defiant1, etc....and find what works for you.

[RaferAlston26]

Originally Posted by LSU1

again, another thread started by a guy who doesnt have any results and has essentially no bodybuilding experience. what kind of credability do you think you have writing this without having worked ouf for that long and achieved any results?

you BELIEVE that the mind may be important in producing muscle gains, however you havent been training long enough to know whether that is true. experience is one of the most powerful tools we have in bodybuilding. try listening/reading more and posting less

i mean damn man you are 5'11 150 with 13 inch arms and are 15 years old. what do you REALLY know about bodybuilding?

Technically speaking, psychology plays a large role. Placebo effect is the most common thing in the world. If you think you won't make gains, chances are YOU WON'T. Everything you do functions around your brain. He's just saying that psychology plays a large role but we all know that knowledge and experience does too.

You listed these: "diet, consistency, training program, etc are significantly more important. "

Where would that be without motivation? No where. If you aren't motivated in the first place you won't get there. Want a perfect example? X-Weighted. This girl she lost only 3 pounds in 6 weeks. She thought the diet was crap, the training was crap, etc etc. After the 6th week, she got an offer to be in a PHOTO SHOOT. Motivation went up, she believed these things will work and what happens? She dropped 18 pounds in 10 more weeks. Motivation is above everything else when it come to ANY SPORT. If you are not motivated and if you don't put faith into anything, your results will be hindered greatly. That is the basis of psychology.

If you don't go into the gym all the time ready to make progress and gains, chances are you aren't going to make progress and gains. While being motivated also leads to knowledge about diet, consistency, training program, etc. It all comes down to the brain. You're the PC and your brain is the CPU. You would not properly function without it and with a bad CPU what happens in a PC? Everything else runs horribly.

[LSU1]

i would imagine those that come on a bodybuilding website are motivated enough to go to the gym. also, *consistency* which is what i said in my post covers your specific point. i assumed that when discussing bodybuilding stuff like diet and routines the fact that you need to go to the gym was self evident.

[RaferAlston26]

Touche.

[rocksmith]

I gotta say, I see alot of guys in the gym who could EASILY push, lift , squat more if they, a, really tried, and b, believed in themselves. I say ?really tried? cos ive been working out for more or less 4 years now, making s.l.o.w gains. Ive been motivated but just going to the gym, pushing my usual sets and going home thinking ?there, ive been to the gym and done my thing?. Only recently have I really pushed it. Limit, what limit. There are no limits, there is no weight too much. Believe youll get there and you will. Of course diet etc is very important, one of the most, but without a positive attitude your not going to accomplish anything. My exampl?: there a gym buddy whos been benching the same for months and months, each time i ask if hes gunna ?go for it today? and although he wants to get bigger he says no i cant. I just think if you want to, there is no cant. Try, be positive and push it.

[crazydude69]

Originally Posted by LSU1

i find that its importance is far far down the list. diet, consistency, training program, etc are significantly more important.

it is my opinion that being a "hardgainer" has more to do with diet and training than it does with a mental approach.

furthermore, it was not my intention to disagree with what you said. my point was that at this stage in the game you dont know what works/doesnt work.

you dont know what kind of diet is most effective for bodybuilding purposes. is it a low carb diet? is it a ketogenic diet? do you thrive off a high protein and carb diet with low fats? do you thrive off of high volume training or do you have better success with more frequent training with lower volume?

there is such a thing as credibility in places like this. people who give advice to others on here should do so drawing on both factual information and their own personal experience. in the sense that you are young and have not had bodybuilding results it is my opinion that you are not that credible. credibility has to do with experience and results. you have neither at this point. so, again i repeat, read more from people like vikingman, dominik, defiant1, etc....and find what works for you.

I am not trying to give advice. This is a discussion, not a seminar.

I think that diet and training is extremly important. I do not know what the perfect diet or training program is. I think that they are (Obviously) essential to muscle growth; but this discussion is not about those things.

Assuming that a trainee has perfect diet, (not really possible) and a perfect training program, (not really possible either). I am suggesting that psychological factors are the make-or -break aspect.

In my opinion If two trainees have the same "perfect" program, and the same "perfect" diet, then the motivation, the obsession, the love of what they are doing, will increase the degree of sucess. Believe it or not their are people who go to the gym and are un-motivated.

Btw, what size are your arms and how long have you been training?

[TheCore]

I only focus on getting results, just willing it doesn't cut it...

Then there would be no need for adjustments!

[timoumi]

Yes, the mind plays a big part in lifting and bodybuilding.


I've poured over and read just about everything from bodybuilding encyclopedias to every magazine on the shelves to dietician literature journals to online workout plans.

So I just don't know anymore, because everything contradicts itself.

I would really like for someone to cut the crap & answer a few basic questions objectively and to the point.

Not trying to be negative, just looking for direction. Because right now bodybuilding is the mother of all frustrations.


1. Does conventional bulking & cutting actually work for skinny guys?

2. Would you reccommend a clean bulk? Do you still go on a cutting phase after a clean bulk? What about cardio during bulking?

3. When cutting how do you tone up abs?

4. Do you have to take protein & creatine? Or can this be done naturally?

[Lencho]

I just go to the gym and lift the weights.

[crazydude69]

Originally Posted by TheCore

I only focus on getting results, just willing it doesn't cut it...

Then there would be no need for adjustments!

Focus is a psychological thing. I imagine that since your focus is high, your will to suceed is also high. Focus and willpower are so similar, I think; you cant keep the same level of focus to suceed if you dont have the desire to suceed, this is exactly what i am trying to say

In my opinion focus is constantly thinking about your goals, thinking about what you need to do to achieve them, and then doing it. Is it not?

I belive that focus, under the above definition, is the factor that is most important to a bodybuilder's mind-set.

So really I agree with you. noone can "will" their muscles into growth.

[crazydude69]

Originally Posted by timoumi

So I just don't know anymore, because everything contradicts itself.

This is very true. Everyone makes out like their program or diet is king and everything else is crap, but I think that everything will work, to a degree, differently for different people.

[shooric]

Originally Posted by RaferAlston26

Genetics to some (including myself) is considered a copout. Maybe you'll begin to progress your training after reading this:

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=790487

thank you! this is one of the best articles I read on the subject!