First havoc cycle, how does this look?

[Eur0MX]

Anabolic Innovations Cycle Support Throughout Cycle

Week 1: AI Cycle Support (getting ready)
Week 2: Havoc 20 mg (first week of havoc)
Week 3: Havoc 20 mg
Week 4: Havoc 30 mg
Week 5: Havoc 30 mg
Week 6: Havoc 30 mg
Week 7: Havoc 30 mg

PCT (4 weeks):

Tamoxifen
AX Mass FX & Retain


1-2 grams of BCAA's after every workout.
10-20 grams of creaine daily.
1-2 grams of protein per pound of body weight daily.
L-Glutamine after training and before bed.

Last but not least a lot of food...

forgot to ask if im missin anythin?

[pvk162]

7 weeks to long imo.Stick to 4.

[GeneGnomeX]

Originally Posted by pvk162

7 weeks to long imo.Stick to 4.

He is doing 6 if you read closely and it is fine, except way too much creatine. In fact you should probably just drop the creatine reintroduce it during PCT at 3-4 grams depending on LBM.

[bimmer323i]

Originally Posted by Eur0MX

Anabolic Innovations Cycle Support Throughout Cycle

Week 1: AI Cycle Support (getting ready)
Week 2: Havoc 20 mg (first week of havoc)
Week 3: Havoc 20 mg
Week 4: Havoc 30 mg
Week 5: Havoc 30 mg
Week 6: Havoc 30 mg
Week 7: Havoc 30 mg

PCT (4 weeks):

Tamoxifen
AX Mass FX & Retain


1-2 grams of BCAA's after every workout.
10-20 grams of creaine daily.
1-2 grams of protein per pound of body weight daily.
L-Glutamine after training and before bed.

Last but not least a lot of food...

forgot to ask if im missin anythin?

I wouldnt go over 4 weeks with this cycle 20/30/40/40 and I hope that Creatine is PCT and not during cycle, your pumps will be painful.

[sobelik]

Is this your first cycle of any PH? If so, I might start at 10mg for the first few days.....at least that is what I have planned.

[Eur0MX]

Originally Posted by bimmer323i

I wouldnt go over 4 weeks with this cycle 20/30/40/40 and I hope that Creatine is PCT and not during cycle, your pumps will be painful.

really? Ive read a few logs when creatine was present with the PH. But, I have been told to use it PCT or when off aswell... Considering theres more than one negativity of creatine so far, i stay away till im done.

Originally Posted by sobelik

Is this your first cycle of any PH? If so, I might start at 10mg for the first few days.....at least that is what I have planned.

yes, first cycle. To my knowledge havoc/epi seems to be the best to "start off" with.

[Vigor]

Dosen't look good, dosen't look bad.

If this is your first time do 4 weeks. Also your PCT should match your cycle (4 week cycle = 4 week PCT) in most cases.

You're only 21 years old, you can still add a lot of size at that age without using.

Don't use creatine during cycle save everything you got for PCT. On cycle you should only really be taking support supps, multi, EFA's etc

You're lacking a bit in terms of cycle support. I would go with Liver Longer + Cycle Support (not just Cycle Support)

[Eur0MX]

Originally Posted by Vigor

Dosen't look good, dosen't look bad.

If this is your first time do 4 weeks. Also your PCT should match your cycle (4 week cycle = 4 week PCT) in most cases.

I would go with Liver Longer + Cycle Support (not just Cycle Support)

Alright, thanks guys, I really appreciate it!

[Vigor]

Also don't forget a couple other items (not required but may help)

Your libido will most likely be shot during PCT, if you're sexually active you may want to add some Tribulus or Maca (or both!) will help quite a bit with your libido.

Even if you dont plan on using, at least have some available (joint support). When you're on cycle your joints will be getting a lot of work, a lot of people need/use some form of joint support supplements.

[Eur0MX]

Hows NOW Trib? I have some already.

Mind if I send you a PM?

[Vigor]

Sure feel free

I'm only here for about another half hour though

[DrnkMnky]

Lower dosage of Havoc for first 2 weeks.

Cycle should be no longer than 4 weeks, maybe 5.

Way to much Creatine. Use it at 5 g daily during PCT.

1-2 g BCAAs will not do much of anything.

[Cuchulainn]

In one of the other logs someone reported joint soreness due to low estrogen levels.

x2 on the Joint Support

[sobelik]

Originally Posted by Josher13

In one of the other logs someone reported joint soreness due to low estrogen levels.

x2 on the Joint Support

yeah, I will be running Havoc with Giant's Cissus for sure.

[tomcat989]

Originally Posted by sobelik

yeah, I will be running Havoc with Giant's Cissus for sure.

Yeh i've been on havoc for about a week and a half and cissus is def a must have for me!

[ryanthestark]

Originally Posted by Vigor

Your libido will most likely be shot during PCT, if you're sexually active you may want to add some Tribulus or Maca (or both!) will help quite a bit with your libido.

I noticed our favorite research chem site for PCT also has viagra for cheap, lol I've been thinking about that for loss of labido. Anyone have an opinion on that?

[factotum]

Originally Posted by DrnkMnky

Lower dosage of Havoc for first 2 weeks.

Cycle should be no longer than 4 weeks, maybe 5.

Way to much Creatine. Use it at 5 g daily during PCT.

1-2 g BCAAs will not do much of anything.

BK said 6 weeks shoudl be okay so is he wrong? I know it's methylated hence the 4 week recommendation but many say it's not as toxic as SD, M1T or PP so 6 weeks is okay. What does RPN have to say about 6 week cycles? Which would be better 6 weeks at 20mg or 4 weeks at 30mg?

[JayLS1-327]

If you can I would also add Liver Longer to your stack.

[BryonB]

Originally Posted by wanderlei

BK said 6 weeks shoudl be okay so is he wrong? I know it's methylated hence the 4 week recommendation but many say it's not as toxic as SD, M1T or PP so 6 weeks is okay. What does RPN have to say about 6 week cycles? Which would be better 6 weeks at 20mg or 4 weeks at 30mg?

Fit said that 6 weeks would be fine earlier. I think everyone here (myself included) is recommending he stick to a 4 week cycle b/c this is his first experience with a prosteroid. To the OP, I did a four week cycle of Havoc on a bulk and got absoutely amazing results. My cycle was 20/20/30/30, but I have prior prosteroid experience. Ultimately the choice is yours, but I think you'll be pleased with your results at 4 weeks or at 6.

BTW, I know this is commmon sense to most people but I'll mention it since you're 21....say goodbye to alcohol (if you drink) while on cycle - especially if you decide on a 6 weeker. Be careful and keep us posted on your results!


- B

[axewars]

I'm completely noob on PH's, steroids, etc etc.


Just from reading the forums for six weeks on and off,

Wouldn't this be the ideal beginner havoc cycle ?

W1: AI Cycle Support, Liver Longer, joint supp
W2: Havoc 10 mg, AI Cycle Support, *avoid pump inducing supps, joint supp
W3: Havoc 20 mg, AI Cycle Support, *avoid pump inducing supps, joint supp
W4: Havoc 30 mg, AI Cycle Support, *avoid pump inducing supps, joint supp
W5: Havoc 30 mg, AI Cycle Support, *avoid pump inducing supps, joint supp
W7: Tamoxifen, AX Mass FX, Retain, Liver Longer, joint supp
W8: Tamoxifen, AX Mass FX, Retain, Liver Longer, joint supp
W9: Tamoxifen, AX Mass FX, Retain, Liver Longer, joint supp
W10: Tamoxifen, AX Mass FX, Retain, Liver Longer, joint supp

[jsweetness]

Originally Posted by axewars

I'm completely noob on PH's, steroids, etc etc.


Just from reading the forums for six weeks on and off,

Wouldn't this be the ideal beginner havoc cycle ?

W1: AI Cycle Support, Liver Longer, joint supp
W2: Havoc 10 mg, AI Cycle Support, *avoid pump inducing supps, joint supp
W3: Havoc 20 mg, AI Cycle Support, *avoid pump inducing supps, joint supp
W4: Havoc 30 mg, AI Cycle Support, *avoid pump inducing supps, joint supp
W5: Havoc 30 mg, AI Cycle Support, *avoid pump inducing supps, joint supp
W7: Tamoxifen, AX Mass FX, Retain, Liver Longer, joint supp
W8: Tamoxifen, AX Mass FX, Retain, Liver Longer, joint supp
W9: Tamoxifen, AX Mass FX, Retain, Liver Longer, joint supp
W10: Tamoxifen, AX Mass FX, Retain, Liver Longer, joint supp

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=1399921 most info you need to know is here. no need to pre-load the liver longer. and personally i think massfx for PCT is a no-go, mainly because of its possible estrogen increase. liver longer is also recommended just for on cycle, other than that the dosing looks good....for first time steroid users.

[Eur0MX]

Taurine 2g/day
Sesamin 1g/day
Cissus 40% Ketosterones 1g/day
Fish Oil
Multivitamin
protein shakes

PreCycle: AI Cycle Support (2 scoops/day)

Week 1: AI Cycle Support, Liv.52, Havoc Days 1-2 10mg then 20mg
Week 2: AI Cycle Support, Liv.52, Havoc 20 mg
Week 3: AI Cycle Support, Liv.52, Havoc 30 mg
Week 4: AI Cycle Support, Liv.52, Havoc 30 mg

PCT :

Toremifene Citrate:
Days 1-4 120mg then 90mg
week 2 90mg
week 3 60mg
week 4 30mg

Week 1: AI Cycle Support, LG Sciences Formadrol, Tribulus, DHEA 200mg
Week 2: AI Cycle Support, LG Sciences Formadrol, Tribulus, DHEA 200mg
Week 3: AI Cycle Support, LG Sciences Formadrol, Tribulus, DHEA 100mg
Week 4: AI Cycle Support, LG Sciences Formadrol, Tribulus. DHEA 100mg

[Eur0MX]

^ how does that look now?

[BIG F@CE]

DHEA should be used on cycle and not in PCT.

[miabullitt]

relevant to my interests.. anyone know if DHEA should even be used?