Experience with BMR

[Doobie2270]

Does anybody know how accurate or inaccurate those daily calorie expenditure calculators are? Here @ BB.com, there's a whole slew of pages dedicated to calculating your metabolism, and they all say roughly the same thing to me.

Thing is, according to those calculators, my maintainance levels are supposed to be over 3000 calories per day. I am a 21 year old 6 foot male weighing 200 pounds at about 11% bodyfat (check against the "Progress Pics" thread I created), I workout with as much intensity as I can muster 7 days a week, alternating between HIIT cardio (30 mins) and lifting heavy weights (60 min, usually with compound exercises like deadlifts) all the way to muscle failure within 5-8 reps.

I've always been extremely and painfully jealous when I see dieting spreadsheets with even a little as 2500 calories on them, so what gives? Is my metabolism stuck this way forever, or is there something I can do to get it up? I thought I was just the paradigm of an endomorph or something, but much of my bone structure is still small. I can wrap my fingers around my wrists and have them overlap by more than a nail's breadth. I do have real wide shoulders, though, and a larger ribcage than anyone I know. I guess I need help figuring what my body type is, too. I might be meso, or meso-endo, but I don't really know how to tell. Pretty dang sure I'm not ecto, though :P

On my "Progress Pics" thread, Sockomalo said that he more or less starved himself (1500 cals per day), too, but now he cuts with roughly 3000 cals per day, losing 1.5-2 pounds per week. What has changed between now and then? 'Cuz I would luuuv to be in your shoes.

I tried bulking this last winter, but I didn't really gain much muscle. I ate less than 2500 per day on average, but I didn't really lose either. If I was meant to bulk on 3000+ like all the other guys, wouldn't I have gotten really scrawny trying to eat so little? Or was I unwittingly on a plateau caused by routine under-eating?

Thing is, I'm getting kinda desperate. I've been eating less than 1800 cals a day, but not losing that much fat. My daily carbs are less than 10 grams, with the majority of them coming from bunches of eggs and cheese. I drink a low-carb PWO whey shake after my heaviest weightlifting days. I lost bunches of water and gained immediate definition at the start of the diet, but my actual spare-tire belly covering up the six-pack isn't going anywhere. You would think if those calculators were right, I would have a daily deficit of over 1000 calories, so I should be dead or at least approaching stick figure status after a month of cutting like this. All I am, though, is reeeeaaally hungry.

I would just like to know if there's a chance that one day I could be one of those guys who eat in excess of 2500 (healthy!) calories per day and still lose weight. Could I be sabotaging myself by being hungry during my cut? However, if someone could confirm that my metabolism screwed for life, though, I would be willing to accept that and just live around this "handicap." I guess I'd have to get used to the hunger. Or maybe I'll just pray really hard for adult-onset hyperthyroidism or something.

Please advise!

[gfundaro]

You're eating less than 1800??? That's what I'm doing, and I'm a foot shorter than you and 127 pounds!! I bet that's the problem. Eat more, speed your metabolism back up.

[Eileen]

Those calculators are crap. At one point they would have had me eating more than 4000s a day. If you are cutting, I've found that around 13.5 cals per pound of lean mass works well, and then a decent refeed on your carb-up.

[Teacher77]

I sure know what you mean, man, because i feel exactly the same.

The BMR calculators are totally off. Unless your work involves something very physical about 8 hours a day, your caloric maintenance level is about 13 times your mass in pounds, which would give roughly 2600 for you. (A more precise formula would take your height, age and sex into acount and might give something more or less 100 calories from there.)

By cutting over a long period of time, you fall out the wagon because your body adapts by slowing down your metabolism. Once in a while, you have to bulk up (or at least eat maintenance for a month or so) to avoid that.

I found that out the hard way : when i was obese, i began dieting by cutting 800 calories a day. At first, i still ate 3000 ! Then 2800, then 2600... And i worked that down until i reached 1900 calories a day. All that time my metabolism was slowing down significantyl but i didn't realise because i kept increasing the cardio too : at first i ran about 20-30 minutes a week in 3-4 sessions, and the last three months, i was more doing something around 200 minutes a week, and at a much faster pace (about TWICE what i had begun with).

Then my weight totally stalled... and i even got injured because of too much cardio.

The only way out was a 2 months of (unsuccessful) bulking where i ate 300-400 above maintenance (back to 2700-2800 in my case), did very few cardio, and took back about 5-8lbs, few of which was muscle. But my caloric maintenance level went up by about 10% and that enabled me to start cutting again and get down 5lbs lower than i was at when i hit the first plateau.

And, stupid as i am, i went into cutting again for 5 months and i slowed down my metabolism again. And had to bulk up again. (that's what i'm doing NOW).

Lesson : NEVER cut more than 2 months in a row. After that delay, you have to pull back up your calories even if you didn't reach your goal. That's the only way to keep the metabolism from slowing down. Reaching 10%bf seems to be a very long term goal (at least for me !)

[Doobie2270]

OK, with Eileen's method I can eat ~2300 calories. That would be nice...

I'm gonna try that, for the simple reason that going to bed so hungry is making me reconsider whether having below 10% body fat is even worth it.

I'll work my way up to 2300 over the course of the weekend. I'll stay there for a month and take some progress pictures and see if there's been any change.

I'm also taking Teacher's post into heavy consideration. I was obese at one point too, doing a real anorexic cut with increasing cardio to the point of injury. It wouldn't be too bad too lose a few weeks of progress doing maintainance/bulk, if only to ensure that my goals can be reached healthily and definitively in the end.

Any word on how I can get to eating up to 3000 :P I guess I could just bulk until my lean body mass is around 230...

[Teacher77]

Originally Posted by Doobie2270

Any word on how I can get to eating up to 3000?

Find a job where you move weight all damn day :-)

[awesomebill61]

you have like the same problem i had/have!
i just started cutting calories cuz i was sick of being overweight and i lost tons of muscle and got down to like 1600-1800 calories a day (some days as low as 1300-these were considered quite an accomplishment by me), even tho all of the calculators told me i should be doing about 3200 a day.
Just start slowly taking your calories up, and don't make the mistake i did and add 30 lbs of binging weight!
its amazing how much more energy and happiness you will have at about 2400 than at 1800
at 1600-1800 i was tired (lack of carbs) and irritable (lack of fats)... but now at 2100-2400 i am back to my old happy self.

[Doobie2270]

Originally Posted by awesomebill61

you have like the same problem i had/have!
i just started cutting calories cuz i was sick of being overweight and i lost tons of muscle and got down to like 1600-1800 calories a day (some days as low as 1300-these were considered quite an accomplishment by me), even tho all of the calculators told me i should be doing about 3200 a day.
Just start slowly taking your calories up, and don't make the mistake i did and add 30 lbs of binging weight!
its amazing how much more energy and happiness you will have at about 2400 than at 1800
at 1600-1800 i was tired (lack of carbs) and irritable (lack of fats)... but now at 2100-2400 i am back to my old happy self.

So you managed to still lose weight after bringing your calories up to 2400? Did you do this after bulking, as part of a bulking/cutting cycle? Or was it your first cut after deciding you had grown too overweight? Last question how did your workout program look like, 'cuz even with below 1800 cals I'm doing 7 workouts a week.

[Sockomalo]

Originally Posted by Doobie2270

On my "Progress Pics" thread, Sockomalo said that he more or less starved himself (1500 cals per day), too, but now he cuts with roughly 3000 cals per day, losing 1.5-2 pounds per week. What has changed between now and then? 'Cuz I would luuuv to be in your shoes.

well for starters let me mention that as my weight has went down, i am now only losing between 1-1.5pounds a week, but it is consistent every week. but i have been eating the same amount of calories since january this year. i dont think i would be able to eat this many calories on a traditional diet, but for some reason i can eat more calories on a ketogenic diet and STILL lose weight. the next thing is my Job. i am a mail man working for canada post and i walk around for 3 hours a day 5 times a week, and at a pretty fast pace, going up stairs, while carrying a somewhat heavy load of mail in my bag. not bad getting paid over 50 grand a year to walk around and lose weight, best job ive ever had!

but i did have this job before starting my ketogenic diet and i would still give the diet credit for the increase in calories. before starting the keto diet i was eating about 2700 calories a day, and when i switched to the keto diet i had to increase my calories by 300/day because i was losing weight TOO fast. and now i have kept my calories the same (very strict, counted to a T mind you) and the weight loss has stayed consistent

[Sockomalo]

and yes when i was eating 1500-1800 calories a day and doing cardio(eliptical for 30-40 minutes) i did lose alot of weight, but i lost mostly muscle. i dropped about 30 or so pounds, but i didnt look any better than i did when i started(ended up skinnyfat), plus i lost tonnes of strength.

edit: if you were anorexic your bodys metabolism probably slowed to a crawl. i did do a bulk between my 2 cutting cycles (this being the second one) and that really helped to jump start my metabolism, so its definitely worth considering. besides youre not even fat, i was. and unless youre over 200 pounds, you probably wont be able to cut on near 3000 calories. my weight this week was 180.5, down 1 pound from last saturday

[Doobie2270]

Thanks, Sockomalo, that clears things up.