I haven't Been on Here and Forever and Now I Remember Why I Hardly Come Here

[guitar4ya]

So I haven't been on here in forever and it really hasn't changed much. It is still the same how do I get a 6 pack, how do I cut, blah blah blah. Anyways, I wish there was a way that the information that I am about to write about was explained to me a long time ago when I first started. It took into my sophomore year of my Health and Exercise Science major to start understanding what it takes for weight gain and loss. I don't like to use the term cutting and bulking anymore because to me cutting fat is the same as weight loss and bulking is the same as weight gain. A popular question is how do I loose fat while gaining muscle. As I set up, cutting fat is weight loss and gaining muscle is weight gain. So what you are saying is that you want to gain weight while loosing weight. With lifting daily and a good nutrition plan, you will add weight in the form of muscle, but if your initial goal right off the bat is to loose fat and gain muscle it's hard.

To gain weight, fat or muscle, you have to have an excess of calories. Let's say to sustain your weight as it is right now takes 2500 calories. That's saying you are just doing normal everyday activities like walking, sitting sedentary ect. So you're eating 2500 calories a day and then say you want to start working out. You start working out and this burns 400 calories. You just now took your 2500 calories and knocked it down to 2100 calories. This means that your body now has to use its own stores to make up for those 400 calories that you expended. This is called weight loss. Now, if you don't want to loose any weight, you have to take in 2900 calories just to stay exactly how you are. Now, if you want to gain weight, then you need to consume greater than 2900 calories this saying that you keep the same activity level.

This all being said, how will you gain weight? Well if you're lifting, you are tearing down your muscles and your body recognizes this and takes those extra +2900 calories and uses them to build back what you tore down. Now if you look up the caloric content of muscle, one pound of muscle contains about 3000 calories. So if you want to gain a pound a week in a perfect genetic environment, you would try consuming an extra 430ish calories per day on top of that 2900 that I said earlier. This would add up to 3330 calories. Simple and plain, weight gain means that you take in more calories than you expend.

A lot of people here would say that you need to just eat as much protein as you can, and that is totally off. You really need around 15% of your total calories to come from protein, 55% from Carbs, and about 30% fat. How do you know the percentage? A gram of both protein and carbohydrate contains 4 calories and a gram of fat is 9 calories. So you look and see what 15 percent of 3330 is and that would give you about 500 calories from protein. Divide that by 4 and you get the grams of protein you should be getting everyday. This makes for about 125g of protein. You would do the same thing for carbs and fats to see the grams of each of those you should be getting.

Many people think that if they sit here and eat hundreds of grams of protein that they will magically gain muscle. This is totally wrong. Muscle is made up of protein as is your skin, your heart, your stomach, and any other tissue. If you consume too much protein, your body uses what it needs and then excretes the rest out. There is no storage system in the body for protein. Once your body gets what it needs, it just gets rid of it. This number of 15 percent of total calories is for everyone. someone that is on a 2000 calorie diet should also be consuming 15 percent as protein.

Now don't read this and immediately think that you need to start eating 3330 calories everyday. You have to find the number that works for you and your body type. There are calculators online that you can enter in your height, weight, and activity level to determine your base calorie needs. These are good, but they don't take into account body composition. The best way to know what you need is to get your body fat done and then calculate your caloric needs based on body comp, but this is tedious, and for most people on here, a simple calorie calculator would be fine.

Just one more thing and that is that as you gain weight in the form of muscle, your body obviously needs more calories to sustain this weight. So that is why you have to every so often re-work your diet to continue weight gain. Now if you just cut up after a period of weight gain then simply reduce your calories to a sub-weight gain level. Your body is smart and if you're still work out, it will use fat to make up for the caloric deficit and not muscle because you are still utilizing that muscle in the gym. Weight gain is simply an excess in calories. Your training and physical activity determines what your body does with these excess calories. So there's my rant... Anyone with some experience, feel free to critique.

[bparks]

wall o' text there buddy.

use paragraphs.

[guitar4ya]

Lol yeah my bad... Done!

[Vipersg123]

I skimmed through that... you have a lot more studying to do... for instance ...


"There is no storage system in the body for protein."


sorry wrong.


I am an exercise science/kinesiology major as well. I can tell you take in too much from your professors with little to no speculation. I like to think outside the typical box set by kinesiology professors as there is a load of new research proving what they say wrong. Whats the point of being a scientist if you don't give yourself a chance to look outside the box, if we didn't we'd still think the world was flat and that we are the center of the universe and the sun revolves around us.

You give some sedentary person an extra 500 calories of protein a day putting them 500 calories over maintenance and I guarantee you that person will gain fat.


edit: I am not saying its completely wrong or anything you make lots of valid points but that was just oen a caught skimming through.. now it's organized ill read it

[grrrowing]

if your so smart, how come my weight doesnt fluctuate at all when one day ill take in 2500 calories and the next i take in 6000?

[Delgadido]

Originally Posted by grrrowing

if your so smart, how come my weight doesnt fluctuate at all when one day ill take in 2500 calories and the next i take in 6000?

cause ur body can only absorb so much. =D

[Vipersg123]

alright I read it all. The only complaint I really had was the protein not turning to fat, as amino acids clearly can be converted to fat.
15% of your diet as protein alright that can work, but preferably from my own research with my body taking in 1g-1.5 grams per pound of BW is a better approach, most professors would callme crazy... in fact it's kind of funny because for my prevention and care of athletic injuries class we switch professors half way through and finally i got a professor that agrees with my point of view.

[guitar4ya]

Originally Posted by Vipersg123

I skimmed through that... you have a lot more studying to do... for instance ...


"There is no storage system in the body for protein."


sorry wrong.


I am an exercise science/kinesiology major as well. I can tell you take in too much from your professors with little to no speculation. I like to think outside the typical box set by kinesiology professors as there is a load of new research proving what they say wrong. Whats the point of being a scientist if you don't give yourself a chance to look outside the box, if we didn't we'd still think the world was flat and that we are the center of the universe and the sun revolves around us.

You give some sedentary person an extra 500 calories of protein a day putting them 500 calories over maintenance and I guarantee you that person will gain fat.


edit: I am not saying its completely wrong or anything you make lots of valid points but that was just oen a caught skimming through.. now it's organized ill read it

What is the storage system for protein? I was trying to say that there isn't one like there is for carbs (glycogen) and fat. And I did have what you said about giving a sedentary person 500 above maintenance would get fat in there earlier but I took it out just cuz I didn't wanna make it any longer lol... But yeah what is the storage system for protein?

[Vipersg123]

Originally Posted by guitar4ya

What is the storage system for protein? I was trying to say that there isn't one like there is for carbs (glycogen) and fat. And I did have what you said about giving a sedentary person 500 above maintenance would get fat in there earlier but I took it out just cuz I didn't wanna make it any longer lol... But yeah what is the storage system for protein?

What is protein essentially made out of? Amino acids... but thinking a little deeper here it would be.... CALORIES. Calories can be converted into fat. Your body can convert amino acids to muscle, skin, hair, etc... and it can convert them into fat.. just like your body can convert glucose into fat. Just like how your body can convert alcohol into fat (alcohol has 7 kcal per gram) i.e. beer belly.

[Vipersg123]

Oh i forgot to mention amino acids can be stored as glycogen as well

oh and i ment 500 calories of protein over maintenance caloric intake would make them fat not just any calories.

[x2thez53913]

Originally Posted by Vipersg123

Oh i forgot to mention amino acids can be stored as glycogen as well

oh and i ment 500 calories of protein over maintenance caloric intake would make them fat not just any calories.

glucogenesis(sp) i think.
anyways to the author of this thread, why waste your time logging in, writing all that, and just coming back in general if you dont like this place?
im sure you could leave and find a different forum

[Vipersg123]

Originally Posted by x2thez53913

glucogenesis(sp) i think.
anyways to the author of this thread, why waste your time logging in, writing all that, and just coming back in general if you dont like this place?
im sure you could leave and find a different forum

whats the point of a forum without some good debates and disagreements?

[Vipersg123]

Originally Posted by x2thez53913

glucogenesis(sp) i think.
anyways to the author of this thread, why waste your time logging in, writing all that, and just coming back in general if you dont like this place?
im sure you could leave and find a different forum

nah glucogenesis hence the name "gluco" has to do with glucose becoming glycogen.

[Tucdaddy]

Originally Posted by guitar4ya

What is the storage system for protein? I was trying to say that there isn't one like there is for carbs (glycogen) and fat. And I did have what you said about giving a sedentary person 500 above maintenance would get fat in there earlier but I took it out just cuz I didn't wanna make it any longer lol... But yeah what is the storage system for protein?

The storage system for protein is fat AKA adipose tissue.

[Vipersg123]

Originally Posted by Tucdaddy

The storage system for protein is fat AKA adipose tissue.

you forgot glycogen... and muscle.

[CelticBhoy]

You know, sometimes I believe I have some sort of knowledge - a basic idea - on how and "why" certain myths, truths, etc. work or do not work.

...then a kinesiology major (or more) comes into the conversation and slaps me with a big, fat, reality check.

Thanks for putting me in my place

[Tucdaddy]

Originally Posted by Vipersg123

you forgot glycogen... and muscle.

Yea, your right...It's been a few years since biochemistry so I'm a little rusty on my pathways, but this guy's statement was just flat-out wrong.

[Vipersg123]

Originally Posted by Tucdaddy

Yea, your right...It's been a few years since biochemistry so I'm a little rusty on my pathways, but this guy's statement was just flat-out wrong.

no problem you weren't wrong, you just forgot a couple things =P. The poster isn't completely wrong he clearly has some knowledge of what he is saying and what his professors tell him, but clearly even at the 6th top college in the country for kinesiology my professors can be wrong and not up to date.

[908]

Originally Posted by grrrowing

if your so smart, how come my weight doesnt fluctuate at all when one day ill take in 2500 calories and the next i take in 6000?

How much do you expect it to fluctuate??? By adding 3500 cals you'll gain a pound. It's science not bodybuilding. Andddd... I highly doubt you pulled this little experiment on yourself.. to eat 6000 calories you practically would have had to been stuffing your face every single minute of the day.

[Tucdaddy]

Woord

[The_Nyne]

Originally Posted by 908

How much do you expect it to fluctuate??? By adding 3500 cals you'll gain a pound. It's science not bodybuilding. Andddd... I highly doubt you pulled this little experiment on yourself.. to eat 6000 calories you practically would have had to been stuffing your face every single minute of the day.

Or you could eat 4 monster burgers from hardees.

Each one at 1490 calories each. Plus fry and drink. That's alotof calories.

[908]

Where is Hardees?? I'm guessin that's down south? That burger sounds huge. What does it have every type of food on it. Or is it just mainly a huge piece of meat

[The_Nyne]

Originally Posted by 908

Where is Hardees?? I'm guessin that's down south? That burger sounds huge. What does it have every type of food on it. Or is it just mainly a huge piece of meat

No, they're a restraunt chain, like McDonalds. I was gonna send you to their website and then see if there was one by you, and then I found that none of them are in New Jersey. And I guess they range from the midwest to the east coast, to down south. I guess they're not as big as I thought they were(I've seen them in just about every town I've ever been in). Pretty good though, has the best burger than any other chain.

[guitar4ya]

Ok I see what you're saying. What I meant was that there is no storage system for protein as protein. Protein can be used by the body for biological processes, converted into fat, or deaminated in the liver to produce glucose. I didn't want to get that much in depth, but yeah. The keyword is conversion. The protein has to be converted to be stored as something else. I meant the body doesn't store protein as protein. Carbs are stored as glycogen which is an actual complex carbohydrate. They can also be converted to fat as can any excess calorie. And fat is obviously just stored as fat. Carbs and fats actually can be stored as carbs and as fats. Proteins have to be converted into one of these to be stored which by that point they aren't proteins anymore.

[Vipersg123]

Originally Posted by guitar4ya

Ok I see what you're saying. What I meant was that there is no storage system for protein as protein. Protein can be used by the body for biological processes, converted into fat, or deaminated in the liver to produce glucose. I didn't want to get that much in depth, but yeah. The keyword is conversion. The protein has to be converted to be stored as something else. I meant the body doesn't store protein as protein. Carbs are stored as glycogen which is an actual complex carbohydrate. They can also be converted to fat as can any excess calorie. And fat is obviously just stored as fat. Carbs and fats actually can be stored as carbs and as fats. Proteins have to be converted into one of these to be stored which by that point they aren't proteins anymore.

yes, but they are still eventually stored as something... the calories that make them up eventually exist somewhere else as stored energy.