training split

maranne · 12-04-2003, 12:52 AM

After having had a convo with iboyo I wanted to see what you all make of my training split.

I have only been on it for the second week so I cannot see any results as such yet. I had asked my trainer in the gym to design a programme that lets me spend less time in there and at the same time be as effective in building muscle as in getting more tight.

I can only give you a simple version of the programme but it looks as follows.

day 1 back/chest
day 2 bi/tri
day 3 lower back/shoulders
day 4 legs

I do higher reps/lower weights (10-15 reps) 2 sets per exercise and weights nearly until failure for the last set. I do about 4 exercises for the various bodyparts each.

Cardio is mainly running and sometimes I use the rowing machine for about 30 min/3 times a week.
I am fairly active in my daily life, I walk everywhere and don´t have a car.

Anyway...any comments are welcome!

thanks!
marianne

MDC · 12-04-2003, 01:35 PM

I don't know about doing lower back on day 3, and then legs on day 4. I wouldn't do that since I squat on leg day and squats wouldn't go very well with a tired lower back.

Why 10-15 reps? That is not effective for "toning" or building muscle. Are you planning to lift heavier for fewer reps in the near future?

imperfectly_lou · 12-04-2003, 09:04 PM

Hi Marianne

10-15 reps does seem quite high... I can understand 10-15 (or even better 8-10) on legs, but I think 6-8 would be much more effective on the other body parts.

What are your specific goals?

egoatdoor · 12-04-2003, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by maranne

I have only been on it for the second week so I cannot see any results as such yet. I had asked my trainer in the gym to design a programme that lets me spend less time in there and at the same time be as effective in building muscle as in getting more tight.

I can only give you a simple version of the programme but it looks as follows.

day 1 back/chest
day 2 bi/tri
day 3 lower back/shoulders
day 4 legs

I do higher reps/lower weights (10-15 reps) 2 sets per exercise and weights nearly until failure for the last set. I do about 4 exercises for the various bodyparts each.

Cardio is mainly running and sometimes I use the rowing machine for about 30 min/3 times a week.
I am fairly active in my daily life, I walk everywhere and don´t have a car.

marianne

Its hard to really evaluate this without knowing your bodytype( ectomorph, endomorph, mesomorph or a combination). I will say that if this split is on consecutive days, training bis the day after back and legs the day after lower back are big no nos.

"Building muscle and getting tight": diet is a very important part of the equation here. What are you and your trainer doing to address this?

maranne · 12-05-2003, 01:57 AM

Thanks for your replies everyone!

Maybe I didn´t quite make myself clear in the original post.

I don´t train on consecutive days and this is only a new cycle to give me a change from the low reps one.

The programme I did before was higher weigths/lower reps (about max.8) and 2 sets. And I had a 2 day split. But somehow I felt I wasn´t progressing at all anymore and wanted to get a change.

I am not too sure about my shape...I have fairly broad shoulders, am curvy and hold all my weight around my hips and thighs. I am 5 8 (173 cm) and weigh about 165 pounds. Since I don´t step on scales anymore....I can only roughly guess.
I will try and post a pic some day so maybe you can help me evaluate my correct body shape.

Concerning my trainer and his ideas on diet and goals. Well, he simply says...eat sensibly...LOL
I have been reading lots of post on here and another forum to get an idea about clean eating. I do try to follow it and there is hardly any junk food in my life. I eat organic, no alcohol, no smoking.

Lou was asking about my goals. If only I knew exactly where I wanted to go..it would be easier. I really like being muscular and strong without sacrificing my feminine form, so all in all...I would like to see more definition in my body hence get rid of the flab.

Iboyo was suggesting to completely change the programme I have now and go back to basic deadlifts and presses only.

If you could give me an idea where to start I would be very grateful. At the moment I feel like a beginner all over again.

Thanks!
Marianne

maranne · 12-05-2003, 05:56 AM

I hope you can make out my body...they were taken with a web cam and are not very focused.

Marianne

maranne · 12-05-2003, 05:58 AM

another one..

maranne · 12-05-2003, 05:59 AM

and another one

maranne · 12-05-2003, 06:01 AM

and the last one

MDC · 12-05-2003, 08:59 AM

maranne,
Thanks for posting the pictures, and you're right about your shoulders being broad. They definitely are quite impressive looking! Of course, I'm a sucker for women with nice shoulders.

I think when you changed your program, you should have kept the higher weight/lower reps, and just changed the split. I've never done a 4 day split, so I don't have any great suggestions there.

Are you eating sensibly yet? LOL If you're eating a balanced diet, it's easy enough to modify the portion sizes of the bad things(bread, rice, sugar, etc), so they don't contribute a bunch of empty calories, and increase the quantity of the good stuff if you're hungry.

maranne · 12-05-2003, 11:34 AM

Thanks MDC,

Well..I do love my shoulders because they carry a lot of burden...hehee so to speak.

I eat well most of the time, but X-mas is really hard for me. I am a teacher and my students stuff me with cookies and I seem to have lost my willpower somehow.

I am going to the gym tomorrow and hope to have made up my mind about my traing by then!

Take care,
Marianne

egoatdoor · 12-05-2003, 07:08 PM

From seeing your pictures, I think you are predominately an endomorph with some slight mesomorph characteristics. Yes, you are curvy and hold weight in your hips and upper thighs. With this body structure, I do not think low rep training is the proper method, especially for the lower body.

You do have a feminine form ( very curvy and I mean that in a positive way. You also have a very flat stomach and a slim waist. These are points most women I am sure would kill for), but you need to increase your lean muscle and lose some of the fat that is covering the muscle you have in some areas. How you train, your nutrition and cardio are much more important factors in achieving this than whatever split you are doing.

My suggestions:

:Train in the 12-15 rep range and mix in some 20 rep sets for the legs on occasion. Now by doing higher reps, I do not mean that the sets are meant to be easy. Choose weights that will cause you really have to work to do the last 2-3 reps. This rep range will be effective for you than low rep training, which I think promotes more bulk, which is not what you necessarily need, especially in the lower body.
: Your shoulders have good caps, but are not wide. Your back is thin. With genetically wide hips, this makes your shoulders and back look smaller from both the front and the rear. To offset the width in your hips and upper thighs, I feel you need to prioritize your shoulders and upper back. Making these wider will make your hips look smaller in comparison. Here is an idea for a split that will allow you to work those muscles in a priority fashion:
1) Shoulders/Biceps
2) Legs
3) Chest/Triceps
4) Back

Shoulders are worked the first day, when you theoretically fresh after at least one and preferably 2-3 days off. Back gets it own day and is separated from the leg day, so it should be fresh. Exercises to build the width you need would include military presses, side laterals, pullups or chins, lat pulldowns and seated cable rows. Also include rowing exercises in the back routine for overall balance.
: If you are squatting, use higher reps(15-20, but again make it challenging, not easy weights). Low reps will again exaggerate the width of your hips and trunk. If you are deadlifting, STOP. This is one of the worst exercises for someone with your body structure.
: You have not mentioned anything about your cardio program. For your bodytype and also to reduce your bodyfat %, I think you should be doing 3, possibly 4, cardio sessions a week, with at least two being high intensity training(HIT).
: Nutrition: This is very complex and could take a novel sometimes to explain all the points that sometimes need to be covered. But it is VERY IMPORTANT and if you do not do this right, it could counteract anything you are doing training and cardio wise to attain the physique you want. I am going to refer you to another thread. Read BuffWildCat's nutritional guidelines, think about what you eating now and if you have questions then, please ask. I would also highly recommend trying the Fitday website. It is excellent for tracking your daily food intake. I just starting using it and it is much easier and quicker than the manual log I was using before.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hreadid=189012

Here is an article that can help you estimate your base metabolic rate in calories:

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/issa64.htm

I wonder how knowledgable your trainer is if all he can advise you on such an important point as nutrition is to "eat sensibly".

imperfectly_lou · 12-05-2003, 07:56 PM

Big bump to above

Egoatdoor really knows his stuff....

DonnaJo · 12-06-2003, 06:10 PM

Hey, You look like me. We have very similar bodyshapes. If you want a training partner thru e-mail to compare notes with give me an e-mail . donna_caporale@yahoo.com.
Good luck with your training ., Donna

mirror · 12-07-2003, 01:28 AM

No deadlifts? Ego, can you explain why you give this advice? I'm intrigued.

egoatdoor · 12-07-2003, 04:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mirror
No deadlifts? Ego, can you explain why you give this advice? I'm intrigued.

Sure. If you look at her pictures, she has very wide hips and upper legs relative to her upper body. Deadlifts, particularly with heavy weights, can make those areas even wider. This would make her symmetry even worse, so I suggested that she not do that exercise. She should instead focus on doing other back exercises to build up the upper back area.

maranne · 12-07-2003, 06:59 AM

Well..the one with the very wide hips took all your advice and I will keep the ones who are interested in my progress posted.

And EGO...I would appreciate it if you didn´t talk about me as if I didn´t read the posts..as in "SHE"...I do have a name!

Maybe I am too touchy, but it is hard enough to be called the "one with the very wide hips"..lol
And I have lived 33 years believing they were somewhat balanced by my shoulders...*sigh*

lol

Marianne

mirror · 12-07-2003, 04:15 PM

See, Maranne, I don't think your hips are all that wide! I've seen wider. they about the same, maybe a little narrower than your shoulders. sure they are not as narrow as some women's whose hips would be called 'small'.
maybe I'm prejudiced, being a big-hipped gal myself who just loves to deadlift.
How would you like to be Ms Split Body type: bony Olive Oyl shoulders and a sticky out chest bone with big (nah let's say curvy) hips and ass? because that's what I get in the Mirror!

maranne · 12-08-2003, 12:37 AM

Mirror...I am sure you do look great! and thanks a lot for trying to cheer me up..it was a lovely gesture!

I am not too fussed about the hip thing and egoatdoor apoligized in private so I am ok.
Thanks for the consideration though...

hugs
Marianne

Titania · 12-19-2003, 12:38 AM

Hi Marianne

Personally, I don't think your hips are out of proportion at all. The one thing I would really love is to actually be a little wider in the hip region

I know that isn't what most women want but I really hate having narrow hips.
Anyway, my experience has been that extra cardio (aside from lifting heavy) is not the most effective way to shed bodyfat. Lifting heavy will get your heart rate up for an hour or so and stimulate the growth of lean muscle mass. Adding extra cardio to the picture will just slow down your progress. I made that mistake for a long time and saw much slower and less appealing results. I'm now at the lowest bodyfat percentage I have ever been at by dropping the cardio and not eating low-fat, processed rubbish. My diet includes lots of water, whole, fresh foods such as whole eggs, fruit, veggies, salad, fish, red and white meat, rice and pasta (for carbs immediately after a workout), and even things like hambergers with the lot (yeah, bacon and all)!!! I eat at least every two to three hours to keep my metabolism revved up. It works.
I always include heavy compound movements such as deadlifts, squats, bench presses, dips, etc., and give them first priority in my workouts. They have not made my waist thicker (it's actually smaller now) and my hips have stayed the same size (more muscle, less fat, same bones, better shape

).
Anyway, that is what works for me.

My current training split is:

Monday - Legs
Wednesday - Back/shoulders/bi's
Friday - Chest/tri's

Hibiscus09 · 12-19-2003, 08:32 AM

I have a figure similar to yours. However, I'm at 16% bodyfat & 118lbs. I do think ego has given you excellent advice. I went several years with the heavy lifting, lower reps & doing compound movements such as squats & wide stance deadlifts. I definitely grew in the hip region, and I was maintaining between 13 - 15% bodyfat then -- yes I was more muscular, but the last thing I needed was for my hips to look any wider & my thighs to look any bigger. This just made my shoulder area look smaller & I had a pyramid type look even with having decent sized breasts and lifting upperbody heavy. I was getting a very "thick" look and I did not care for it at all.

You should go for higher reps, moderate weight & not much rest in between sets on your lower body. This is actually a tougher workout in my opinion. When I lifted very heavy, I would do the weights & rest for a couple of minutes between sets. Then go at it again. When the rest period is only about 45 seconds, that makes a world of difference to me & makes it much tougher. You'll get nice fat burning benefits from exercising that way also.

Your back definitely will benefit from what ego suggested. The wider you can make your lats & shoulders, the better.

Also, nutrition is really so important. I can work out very hard at the gym & without proper nutrition, the hard work isn't going to payoff too much in visible results.

I always include heavy compound movements such as deadlifts, squats, bench presses, dips, etc., and give them first priority in my workouts. They have not made my waist thicker (it's actually smaller now) and my hips have stayed the same size (more muscle, less fat, same bones, better shape ).

tatiana, as you have stated you have narrow hips -- the fact that you don't gain hip width from doing the heavy compound movements may be due to the fact that you're not genetically predisposed to do so. I have a more hourglass figure & I definitely put on a lot of size from doing those movements with heavy weights.

Titania · 12-19-2003, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hibiscus09
......tatiana, as you have stated you have narrow hips -- the fact that you don't gain hip width from doing the heavy compound movements may be due to the fact that you're not genetically predisposed to do so. I have a more hourglass figure & I definitely put on a lot of size from doing those movements with heavy weights.

That's a fair comment. Any excess you don't want you can throw in my direction

I have gained muscle in that area but I have also shed a fair amount of bodyfat too so although my hips are the same size, they are much firmer now and in better shape. So I guess, yes, if you maintain the same bodyfat and do heavy, low rep compounds, you will gain muscle and therefore, size on your hips but not on your waist.
Personally Marianne, I don't think your hips are out of proportion anyway. IMHO, they'd look fine with heavy lifting. But then again, I love having strong, muscular thighs too.
I guess, as they say, "The grass is always greener on the other side."
I have narrow hips and want more width. Most girls want the opposite and would love to have narrower hips. Anyone care to swap??

Hibiscus09 · 12-19-2003, 07:01 PM

Me, Me!!

Any excess you don't want you can throw in my direction

Mine are 35" so I'd like to give you at least one, maybe two of those hip inches. However, then my boobs (36") would make me fall over. LOL

Titania · 12-19-2003, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hibiscus09

Mine are 35" so I'd like to give you at least one, maybe two of those hip inches. However, then my boobs (36") would make me fall over. LOL

Cool

I'll have some of your excess clevage too if that's going to be a problem. I'm only an A cup.

LOL

Hibiscus09 · 12-19-2003, 07:23 PM

LOL -- well, at least we're both in proportion!

keza1962 · 01-04-2004, 04:22 AM

HI MARANNE

If i had a tummy like that i would be over the moon hey.
Sorry but i didnt catch your age but you look pretty good to me and my shoulders and back are wider that yours and men say that thats sexy anyway.
SO YOU LOOK GOOD GIRL.
The rest of my body looks very simular to yours except the tummy and probably the ass, and my hips have a lot more fat than yours too ...
May be i should post in a couple of pics so they can see exactly what i should be doing..i tell myself not to be embarrassed coz i know this can only help me...
I will send a couple of pics within the next couple of days and i am sure there wont be any idiots on here puting me down, and if there is i will ignore them and take the advise of the people willing to help me help my self.
Good on you maranne, your doing well girl.
Kerry

BuffedWildCat · 01-04-2004, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hibiscus09
Me, Me!!

Any excess you don't want you can throw in my direction

Mine are 35" so I'd like to give you at least one, maybe two of those hip inches. However, then my boobs (36") would make me fall over. LOL

Puhleease! 35" hips and you're complaining? Somebody slap her, lol. My hips measure 38" around! Yeesh! Altho I'm convinced it's all ASS cause I'm not even close to what you'd call "curvy" or "hippy".

Hibiscus09 · 01-04-2004, 11:55 AM

LOL, buffed -- I don't know what mine is. It's up in the air where it's supposed to be and smooth -- but it sure isn't hard like buns of steel.