The Mall Shooting in Utah: Jihad after all

[NuggzTheNinja]

http://www.serbianna.com/news/2007/01377.shtml

March 17, 2007 -- Bosnian Muslim immigrant's rampage at a Utah shopping mall, killing five Americans while shouting Allahu Akbar or Allah is Great before being gunned down by police is a "textbook study of a jihadist attack" claim authors at the independent PipeLineNews.org.


According to the report, the evening before going on a killing spree, the shooter, Bosnian Muslim Sulejman Talovic, told his girlfriend that "Something is going to happen tomorrow that you'll never be able to forgive me about" and that the event will be "the happiest day of his life and that it could only happen once in a lifetime."
Islam considers dying in service of Allah as the highest form of Islamic spiritual sacrifice and such martyrdom is a "happy moment" because it will be greatly rewarded by Islamic God called Allah.



"Talovic's expression to his girlfriend that his killing spree would be the happiest day of his life is consistent with an understanding of the central function of jihad in Islam," write Beila Rabinowitz and William A. Mayer.
"Contrary to claims made by Talovic's family, his girlfriend stated that he had a contact at the local mosque, which is located immediately adjacent to the scene of Sulejman's carnage," write Rabinowitz and Mayer.

During the shooting spree terrified shoppers and store employees hid in kitchens, cramped closets, stairwells, storage rooms and freezers as Talovic walked through the mall, firing at them and was shouting that that Islamic God, Allah, is great as getting gunned down.

"I am amazed that the media is so obsessed with portraying Talovic as some dreamy, visionary Muslim kid and no one pays attention to the dead he left behind," says Olivia Hill, an American from Texas.

"Salt Lake Tribune talks about his favorite color, favorite food, how he loved outdoors, fishing... and not a word on the dead and the pain these families are suffering and frankly, I am offended by this glorification of a killer... is it because he is a Muslim?" asks Hill.

According to the Salt Lake Tribune, Talovic's father Suljo still has no clue as to the motive for his son's shooting.

"Sulejman's father's continued insistence that someone put his son up to the killings seem to be an effort to shield the Al Noor Masjid [mosque] from law enforcement scrutiny," write Rabinowitz and Mayer.

"The reason for this obfuscation seems clear at this point, the shootings at the Trolley Square Mall were the result of Muslim terrorism, a premeditated act of jihad by Sulejman Talovic," conclude Rabinowitz and Mayer.

Shooter's father was in the Bosnian Muslim army in the 1990s and 5 of the 19 hijackers on 9/11 that killed 3,000 Americans were also, like Talovic, veterans of the Bosnian Muslim army.




Serbian POW Rade Rogic whom Bosnian Muslim soldiers beheaded in this video.




In 2002, point Rabinowitz and Mayer, New York Times detailed how Talovic's relative from Bosnia admitted that he participated in threats to spread anthrax in the US. A 28-year-old Amir Omerovic, naturalized citizen from Bosnia living in Derby, sent letters laced with anthrax to offices of Gov. John G. Rowland, the United States Coast Guard and Marines in Connecticut.
"In most press accounts, Ajka Omerovic is noted as Trolley Square terrorist murderer Talovic's aunt. And the Omerovic clan is well-known in the fighting of Muslims against Bosnian Serbs in Srebrenica. One of them who also emigrated here was Amir Omerovic, apparently a cousin of Talovic," explains Debbie Schlussel.

According to the prosecutor in the Omerovic case, the anthrax laced letters Omerovic sent contained a note in which he warns that it is "only the beginning. Americans will die. Death to America and Israel."

"I think that here, in this case, it wasn't a religious motive, because Islam doesn't embrace terrorism or violence," says Nezim Halilovic, a Wahhabi imam of the Bosnian King Fahd Mosque. Halilovic also preaches that Muslims of Iraq are under attack by America and in his sermons asks Muslims to "to help our bothers in... Iraq and any other place where Muslims are attacked by enemies of Allah's faith.?

"Based on these facts law enforcement must quit denying what is now obvious and start re-investigating this matter for what it is, an example of domestic terrorism," write Rabinowitz and Mayer. "The public must demand a full inquiry, including a full investigation into the Al Noor Mosque."

The writer's english is poor, but it appears that this attack was actually more religiously motivated than previously believed.

[HouseofStrength]

ROFL

can you get a more biased source?

Its serbians attacking bosnians.

[user67987300011654]

hahhaha and more ahahah ahhaha ahha

that is one pathetic little letter written by a scared little infidel whom thinks that the muslims are out to get him or her hhaha

while hundreds of people belive that, Sulejman was a fuked up kid and had problems his whole life, there is allways a moron that thinks it was something else

Guess WHAT

I also think that the children that did the Columbine shootings were MUSLIM, I for a fact know they were MUSLIMS

let me write up a letter hold on

[user67987300011654]

adn coming from SERBIANA haaha hahha ahaha that would be like a letter coming from AlQaeda saying that US is actually in war against ISLAM and is out to destroy ISLAM

do you see the difference what the SERBS did and what AlQaeda does

I sure as fuk dont, I was in Bosnia and I saw the bodies of hundreds of MULSIM civilians, I wonder if they were killed by MUSLIMS

[NuggzTheNinja]

Originally Posted by Janissarie

adn coming from SERBIANA haaha hahha ahaha that would be like a letter coming from AlQaeda saying that US is actually in war against ISLAM and is out to destroy ISLAM

do you see the difference what the SERBS did and what AlQaeda does

I sure as fuk dont, I was in Bosnia and I saw the bodies of hundreds of MULSIM civilians, I wonder if they were killed by MUSLIMS

Actually it's called "Serbia", not "Serbiana", and people would take you seriously if you could actually spell the name of the nation to which you refer.

All you offer in response is ad-hominem attacks. How cute!

[NuggzTheNinja]

Originally Posted by HouseofStrength

ROFL

can you get a more biased source?

Its serbians attacking bosnians.

Ad hominem. Disprove the article or it stands, bitching about it will get you nowhere little boy.

[HouseofStrength]

Originally Posted by NuggzTheNinja

Ad hominem. Disprove the article or it stands, bitching about it will get you nowhere little boy.

Biased source........

Article disproved

You jews are so easy to refute. How you got up the ladder is something I cant understand.

[IronManXXX]

There are soooooooooooooooooo many Serbians AND Bosnian's in S.L.C. it amazes me all the time.

People think we are all mormons but it is actually really diverse here.

[NuggzTheNinja]

Originally Posted by HouseofStrength

Biased source........

Article disproved

You jews are so easy to refute. How you got up the ladder is something I cant understand.

Disprove it. You haven't disproved ****.

You're just crying about it like a little baby boy. "Ohhh my god Israel kicked my ass in 1948 waaaaahhhh!".

Same **** different day. So proud, but so quick to tears. Maybe if you weren't inept you would have little to cry about.

[user67987300011654]

Originally Posted by NuggzTheNinja

Actually it's called "Serbia", not "Serbiana", and people would take you seriously if you could actually spell the name of the nation to which you refer.

All you offer in response is ad-hominem attacks. How cute!

little girl or as Srbi would say

MALA PICKO, have you ever been in Srbija ro Bosna, dont tell me about things you have no Idea of what you are talking about

Serbiana is the website, Serbia is the country, and as Serbs would say Srbija. Now drop this subject PICKO JEDNA before I school your little Zionist arse till you pass out

[HouseofStrength]

Originally Posted by NuggzTheNinja

Disprove it. You haven't disproved ****.

You're just crying about it like a little baby boy. "Ohhh my god Israel kicked my ass in 1948 waaaaahhhh!".

Same **** different day. So proud, but so quick to tears. Maybe if you weren't inept you would have little to cry about.

There we go again with Ad-Hominem......tsk tsk tsk

you never learn

[user67987300011654]

better yet have you ever even left the US, or the little town where you come from

have you ever even been in Eastern Europe, let alone Srbija Crna Gora, hahaha

go back to the drawing board Picko Jedna

[NuggzTheNinja]

Originally Posted by HouseofStrength

There we go again with Ad-Hominem......tsk tsk tsk

you never learn

MY ad-hominem attack wasn't in regards to your argument. It's in regards to YOU. Not even the Muslim posters here take you seriously.

As for your argument, I'm waiting for a serious reply. If not, I guess I'll chalk this up as another victory against the Arab crybaby.

[EOY]

According to the report, the evening before going on a killing spree, the shooter, Bosnian Muslim Sulejman Talovic, told his girlfriend that "Something is going to happen tomorrow that you'll never be able to forgive me about" and that the event will be "the happiest day of his life and that it could only happen once in a lifetime."
Islam considers dying in service of Allah as the highest form of Islamic spiritual sacrifice and such martyrdom is a "happy moment" because it will be greatly rewarded by Islamic God called Allah.

Before knowing that "dying in the service of Allah is the highest form of Islamic spiritual sacrifice," a Muslim should know that fornication is one of the worst forms of sins. Even if he didn't fornicate with his girlfriend, certainly the fact that he had one shows that he wasn't really THAT religious. Besides, dying for the sake of Allah doesn't mean killing random innocent people at the mall.

Too much anti-Muslim threads these days, thinking of making a massive thread about cool things in Islam that most people here don't know about. Too lazy at the moment, but I probably will get to it eventually. Someone's gotta neutralize this ridiculous negativity.

[NuggzTheNinja]

Originally Posted by EOY

Before knowing that "dying in the service of Allah is the highest form of Islamic spiritual sacrifice," a Muslim should know that fornication is one of the worst forms of sins. Even if he didn't fornicate with his girlfriend, certainly the fact that he had one shows that he wasn't really THAT religious. Besides, dying for the sake of Allah doesn't mean killing random innocent people at the mall.

Too much anti-Muslim threads these days, thinking of making a massive thread about cool things in Islam that most people here don't know about. Too lazy at the moment, but I probably will get to it eventually. Someone's gotta neutralize this ridiculous negativity.

He didn't necessarily have sex with her.

It could be like Anna Nicole Smith and that rich guy she married.

ETA:
"Someone's gotta neutralize this ridiculous negativity"

Zionist conspirator!

[redoutlet]

EOY pretty much summed it up well. The brother had a girlfriend and obviously lost it. Maybe he remembered how many UN troops raped Bosnian women while heroically trying to save Muslims from serbs after the massacre (not to discredit the troops who helped sincerely). Jihad is not killing random people- innocnet civilians- anywhere. You're picking the wrong targets nuggz; the Bosnians, just like CAIR, are the most liberal Muslims in the U.S. Many have embraced western culture so well you can't pinpoint their heritage. Try again.

[NuggzTheNinja]

Originally Posted by redoutlet

EOY pretty much summed it up well. The brother had a girlfriend and obviously lost it. Maybe he remembered how many UN troops raped Bosnian women while heroically trying to save Muslims from serbs after the massacre (not to discredit the troops who helped sincerely). Jihad is not killing random people- innocnet civilians- anywhere. You're picking the wrong targets nuggz; the Bosnians, just like CAIR, are the most liberal Muslims in the U.S. Many have embraced western culture so well you can't pinpoint their heritage. Try again.

...CAIR has deep relationships with terrorist organizations, you might want to think of a better example than that.

The point about him having a girlfriend is irrelevant. I never said he was a "good Muslim". The 9/11 hijackers apparently had girlfriends and would drink alcohol too.

[Shaun1990]

Too much anti-Muslim threads these days, thinking of making a massive thread about cool things in Islam that most people here don't know about. Too lazy at the moment, but I probably will get to it eventually. Someone's gotta neutralize this ridiculous negativity.

I agree with this.

Ad hominem. Disprove the article or it stands, bitching about it will get you nowhere little boy

You point out his ad hominem, then make one yourself . . . whats the word I am looking for? Oh yeah

Biased source........

Article disproved

And claiming that the article is biased is in fact, ironically, a classical ad hominem.



Anyway, I am quite frankly amazed at the childishness that I am seeing in this thread, so many personal attacks, so many hasty uses of logical fallacies, so little actual debate.

[NuggzTheNinja]

Originally Posted by Shaun1990

I agree with this.



You point out his ad hominem, then make one yourself . . . whats the word I am looking for? Oh yeah



And claiming that the article is biased is in fact, ironically, a classical ad hominem.



Anyway, I am quite frankly amazed at the childishness that I am seeing in this thread, so many personal attacks, so many hasty uses of logical fallacies, so little actual debate.

Ad hominem against a poster and ad hominem against his source are two different things.

Personally I think he's a terrorist-loving coward just like the rest of him, but if he posts a legitimate source I'm not going to discount it.

Even idiots make decent points. I'm still waiting for yours. (yes ad hominem to YOU, no ad hominem to your source)

[EOY]

Originally Posted by NuggzTheNinja

Ad hominem against a poster and ad hominem against his source are two different things.

Personally I think he's a terrorist-loving coward just like the rest of him, but if he posts a legitimate source I'm not going to discount it.

Even idiots make decent points. I'm still waiting for yours. (yes ad hominem to YOU, no ad hominem to your source)

Then it's not an ad hominem anyway. An ad hominem is when you avoid the argument and resort to attacking the person instead. If you're personally attacking a person just for the hell of it, without an argumental context, then it's just a personal attack. It shouldn't be called an "ad hominem" because that usually suggests a logical fallacy, but in this case it can't be a logical fallacy because there's no argument to begin with.

So the accurate thing to say is "a personal attack against the poster," not "an add hominem against the poster."

[Shaun1990]

Originally Posted by NuggzTheNinja

Ad hominem against a poster and ad hominem against his source are two different things.

Not really, both can be summarized into 'X' makes claim 'Y', 'X' has something attribute 'Z', so 'Y' is false. 'X' can be anything, both a person or an article. 'Z' can be anything, including a bias. 'Y' is what the article or person is trying to say.

Personally I think he's a terrorist-loving coward just like the rest of him, but if he posts a legitimate source I'm not going to discount it.

Naturally, any one who defends Islam is a 'terrorist loving coward', silly me!

Even idiots make decent points. I'm still waiting for yours. (yes ad hominem to YOU, no ad hominem to your source)

Well, as far as I can tell, and have ever heard, only idiots need make ad hominems in the first place. So, you calling me an idiot, then admitting to using idiot tactics yours self, well, I think this word sums it up.

[Shaun1990]

Originally Posted by EOY

Then it's not an ad hominem anyway. An ad hominem is when you avoid the argument and resort to attacking the person instead. If you're personally attacking a person just for the hell of it, without an argumental context, then it's just a personal attack. It shouldn't be called an "ad hominem" because that usually suggests a logical fallacy, but in this case it can't be a logical fallacy because there's no argument to begin with.

So the accurate thing to say is "a personal attack against the poster," not "an add hominem against the poster."

Thats classed as 'abusive ad hominem'. 'Ad hominem' means 'argument against the person'.

[CitadelArmyJAG]

Originally Posted by EOY

Before knowing that "dying in the service of Allah is the highest form of Islamic spiritual sacrifice," a Muslim should know that fornication is one of the worst forms of sins. Even if he didn't fornicate with his girlfriend, certainly the fact that he had one shows that he wasn't really THAT religious.
This guys walks into a shopping mall and murders a bunch of people in the name of Islam and your first point of issue of why he was a "bad muslim" is to criticize him for having a Girlfriend?!? You gotta be kidding me

Besides, dying for the sake of Allah doesn't mean killing random innocent people at the mall.
Oh, nice afterthought... I guess your right, after I got all worked up about him having a girlfriend I almost forget he murdered a bunch of people -thats bad too.

Too much anti-Muslim threads these days,
How about too many crazy Muslims killing people around the world these days... I promise you they are doing more harm to the reputation of your religion the "anti-muslim" threads on an bbing forum that your complaining about

thinking of making a massive thread about cool things in Islam that most people here don't know about. Too lazy at the moment, but I probably will get to it eventually. Someone's gotta neutralize this ridiculous negativity.
Here is a novel idea, instead of making a fuzzy warm feel good thread about "all the cool things about Islam," to "neutralize the ridiculous negativity," why not pitch a fit about the people at the root of it - the people running around yelling praise allah and murdering people all around the world. They are doing a bit more to spread "ridiculous negativity" about Islam than some threads on a bodybuilding forum. Making a thread about Islams good points isnt going to influence anybody. If people have negative feelings about Islam its not because they know too little about Islams good selling points, its because they have been bombarded daily (pun intended) by too much evidence of the death, oppression, destruction, and violence that many Muslims are sowing around the world.

What Violence You Ask?
www.jihadwatch.org

No group's societal contribution should be appraised based solely on what they or their text says, and thusly, Islam is as Islam does.

If you want to change people's impressions of Islam, then do it by killing all the terrorists who claim to be a share your religion while they summarily murder innocents and saw the heads off of little children while chanting Allah Akbah.

[NuggzTheNinja]

Originally Posted by Shaun1990

Thats classed as 'abusive ad hominem'. 'Ad hominem' means 'argument against the person'.

All the fancy terms in the world won't make up for your lack of knowledge of the events about which you feel so strongly.

[Shaun1990]

Originally Posted by NuggzTheNinja

All the fancy terms in the world won't make up for your lack of knowledge of the events about which you feel so strongly.

And, clearly, they havent helped your debating skills either . . .

[TunaMan5]

Originally Posted by Janissarie

adn coming from SERBIANA haaha hahha ahaha that would be like a letter coming from AlQaeda saying that US is actually in war against ISLAM and is out to destroy ISLAM

do you see the difference what the SERBS did and what AlQaeda does

I sure as fuk dont, I was in Bosnia and I saw the bodies of hundreds of MULSIM civilians, I wonder if they were killed by MUSLIMS

U dont see the difference wow ok then u are really some dumb bastard so i would advise u to go and study a bit instead of writing lies on the internet

Another thing they always start conflicts and then when they get their asses kicked they cry and whine how they are mistreated and ****
ps do u even know what JANNISARIE means

[CitadelArmyJAG]

Originally Posted by TunaMan5

do u even know what JANNISARIE means

I sincerely doubt he does...

The Janissaries were the slave armies of the sultan of the Ottoman Empire, comprised of orphaned children stolen from their occupied territories or demanded yearly as part of the living tribute to the Empire (fun living in dhimmitude, no?)

They were often rendered eunichs to serve within the confines of the Sultans palace, and all were forbidden from being with women -and thats probably the only thing that the poster "Janissarie" has in common with the username he has chosen.

[HatesFat]

Originally Posted by NuggzTheNinja

All the fancy terms in the world won't make up for your lack of knowledge of the events about which you feel so strongly.

Arguing validity of claims by demonstrating that the claimant is a liar is not ad hominem. gees.

[NuggzTheNinja]

Originally Posted by CitadelArmyJAG

I sincerely doubt he does...

The Janissaries were the slave armies of the sultan of the Ottoman Empire, comprised of orphaned children stolen from their occupied territories or demanded yearly as part of the living tribute to the Empire (fun living in dhimmitude, no?)

They were often rendered eunichs to serve within the confines of the Sultans palace, and all were forbidden from being with women -and thats probably the only thing that the poster "Janissarie" has in common with the username he has chosen.

[Diesel66]

What's your next source ? Pravada