Afghan children love freedom

[redoutlet]

Afghan children die as US drops one-tonne bombs
Afghan children die as US drops one-tonne bombs
By Justin Huggler Asia Correspondent
Published: 06 March 2007

Nine civilians, including four children, were killed in Afghanistan when US planes dropped two 2,000lb bombs on their mud home. Their deaths came after at least eight civilians were killed by US Marines a day earlier.

It has been a disastrous two days for the Americans in Afghanistan. First US Marines trying to get to safety after being ambushed by a suicide bomber sprayed gunfire wildly across one of the busiest roads in the country, killing passers-by.

And now US planes have dropped two bombs on a family home, killing children aged between six months and five years.

Last year, the Afghan President Hamid Karzai wept as he pleaded for Western soldiers to take more care to avoid killing civilians. But the killings continue.

Gulam Nabi told reporters yesterday how his parents, his sister, his nephew and four of his siblings' children were killed in the air strikes. The US said it had carried out the bombings after militants fired a rocket at a Nato base in the province of Kapisa.

"Coalition forces observed two men with AK-47s [assault rifles] leaving the scene of the rocket attack and entering the compound," said Lt-Col David Accetta, a military spokesman. "These men knowingly endangered civilians by retreating into a populated area while conducting attacks against coalition forces."

The "compound" was a small group of mud houses where Mr Nabi's family lived. The air strikes destroyed the house where the family was, according to reports from the scene.

Kapisa, north of Kabul, is some way from the centre of the insurgency and has been relatively free from attacks. If the Nato base there is coming under attack, it is a sign of how far the insurgency has spread.

The deaths of Mr Nabi's relatives came a day after US Marines killed at least eight Afghan civilians in the eastern province of Nangarhar. There was mounting criticism of US forces over the incident yesterday, as the Afghan government announced it would hold its own inquiry. In particular, in a rare piece of defiance, the Afghan Interior Ministry has questioned the US military's claim that the Marines came under militant attack and were returning fire.

The incident took place after a US convoy was targeted in a suicide bombing on a busy highway. Witnesses say that as they drove away from the scene of the attack, US Marines opened fire indiscriminately at cars and pedestrians along the road. "I saw them turning and firing in this direction, then turning and firing in that direction," said Ahmed Najib, a 23-year-old who was shot in the shoulder. "I even saw a farmer shot by the Americans."

The US initially said as many as 16 civilians were killed, but it has since revised its figures. The Marines say they were returning fire. A US official who insisted on anonymity told reporters there was "no doubt in the minds of Marines on the ground that they were being fired on".

But a spokesman for the Afghan Interior Ministry, Zemeri Bashary, said: "The coalition says they have proof that gunmen opened fire. But I think more of the gunfire was from the [US] side."

And two senior provincial Afghan officials, who asked not to be named, said they had found no evidence to support the US claims.

The Associated Press news agency has said US soldiers deleted footage and photographs of dead civilians from the cameras of its reporters, and warned them not to publish any images of what had happened. AP said it would lodge a protest with the US military.

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/...cle2331981.ece

[zodiac666]

fix the link, "page cannot be found"

[redoutlet]

Originally Posted by zodiac666

fix the link, "page cannot be found"

I think it is fine now.

[Lloyd Braun]

I doubt you'll get much of a response about a tragedy such as this namely because firstly American troops don't deliberately attack civilians and secondly, Afghanistan was/is a completely justifiable war.

I think everybody realizes that civilians unfortunately die in war. Where you are going with this article I really don't know...

[Compoundlift83]

Well loss of human life is always terrible, but I guess in a warzone stuff like that happens{even though its horrible},on the other hand I dont feel sorry for Afghanistan considering the fact the Taliban from "their " country bombed the WTC center and killed thousands of people and they brought it on themselves.

[skinnyfred]

Originally Posted by Compoundlift83

Well loss of human life is always terrible, but I guess in a warzone stuff like that happens{even though its horrible},on the other hand I dont feel sorry for Afghanistan considering the fact the Taliban from "their " country bombed the WTC center and killed thousands of people and they brought it on themselves.

A small portion of the taliban is of Afghan decent. I am not justifying the talibans ways of life, but how did they bomb the WTC? Is it really worth killing thousands of civilians over people who have nothing to do with 911? LOL, how did they bring it to themselves, so your telling me thousands of innocent Afghan children brought it to themselves, because somehow you view the taliban as the cause of 911? By the way, innocent AFGHANS are getting killed because people feel as though the taliban is a threat (TALIBAN MEMBERS ARE NOT AFGHAN).

[BVAV]

Originally Posted by Compoundlift83

Well loss of human life is always terrible, but I guess in a warzone stuff like that happens{even though its horrible},on the other hand I dont feel sorry for Afghanistan considering the fact the Taliban from "their " country bombed the WTC center and killed thousands of people and they brought it on themselves.

Get a clue. The Taliban did not bomb the WTC. God where have you been? The Taliban doesn't care about the US or acts of terrorism outside of Afghanistan and secondly they are mostly made up of non Afghans. Obviously there are Afghans in the Taliban because it was founded in Afghanistan. When you go to someone elses country and start up an army of thugs you need a few natives on your side. People like Osama Bin Laden fund the Taliban so that they will provide terriotory for Al Qaeda which is what they gave.

[The Experiment]

I don't know, can't get any worse than the Soviet occupation of 1979.

[BVAV]

Originally Posted by The Experiment

I don't know, can't get any worse than the Soviet occupation of 1979.

They weren't being occupied by the Soviets when the US went in so what is your point?

[Chowboy]

Maybe we should just let them, the Afghans/Taliban, go back to the cave men they were... same with Iraq.

We expended American Capital and American blood trying to bring dignity and self determination to a bunch of people who obviously can't deal with it. Let 'em go back to thier stonings, thier people shredders, the midnight kidnappings and all those lovely things some of you folks seem to miss so much.

It's become apparent to me that certain people in this world just don't understand the price of freedom or the responsibility of self determination.

[974g63awd]

Originally Posted by Chowboy

Maybe we should just let them, the Afghans/Taliban, go back to the cave men they were... same with Iraq.

We expended American Capital and American blood trying to bring dignity and self determination to a bunch of people who obviously can't deal with it. Let 'em go back to thier stonings, thier people shredders, the midnight kidnappings and all those lovely things some of you folks seem to miss so much.

It's become apparent to me that certain people in this world just don't understand the price of freedom or the responsibility of self determination.

To the cavemen they were???


Afghanistan was not nearly as bad as it was before the soviet occupancy. It wasn't the strict muslim 3rd world **** hole it is now. Im sure these less fortunate people appear as cavemen to you but they lost their homes and families to the war and to the taliban. And FYI, the taliban are not Afghan. They occupied Afghanistan and ruled it with an iron fist until the US saved the day. You are right. These people do not understand the price of freedom because they have never had it. Please do not judge them until you have witnessed first hand how difficult their lives are.

[redoutlet]

Originally Posted by Chowboy

Maybe we should just let them, the Afghans/Taliban, go back to the cave men they were... same with Iraq.

We expended American Capital and American blood trying to bring dignity and self determination to a bunch of people who obviously can't deal with it. Let 'em go back to thier stonings, thier people shredders, the midnight kidnappings and all those lovely things some of you folks seem to miss so much.

It's become apparent to me that certain people in this world just don't understand the price of freedom or the responsibility of self determination.

Last I checked Afghanis never welcomed the U.S. into their country nor agreed to giving up their childrens' lives in exchange for freedom. And don't try to convince yourself that life is different than before-the same warlords still operate freely and are allied with the karzai government. Same lifestyle, new rulers.

[974g63awd]

Originally Posted by redoutlet

Last I checked Afghanis never welcomed the U.S. into their country nor agreed to giving up their childrens' lives in exchange for freedom. And don't try to convince yourself that life is different than before-the same warlords still operate freely and are allied with the karzai government. Same lifestyle, new rulers.

I was born in Kabul right before the soviet occupancy. My family and I were fortunate to leave during this war. After the war was over, the country basicaly fell to ****. Most of the country was destroyed and most of the people were living in poverty. This is when the taliban started to occupy the country and began forcing their laws (ie burkas, men wearing beards, no laughing in public!!!, etc.) I was sponsoring a family at the the time and they would tell me stories about what the taliban were doing. Beatings, public executions during soccer matches, etc...This being said, I can tell you right now that the afghan people were more than happy to see the US aid them. Would we be there aiding them if 9-11 did not happen? Most likely not. The people there would still be suffering under the taliban dictatorship.

[BVAV]

Originally Posted by Chowboy

Maybe we should just let them, the Afghans/Taliban, go back to the cave men they were... same with Iraq.

We expended American Capital and American blood trying to bring dignity and self determination to a bunch of people who obviously can't deal with it. Let 'em go back to thier stonings, thier people shredders, the midnight kidnappings and all those lovely things some of you folks seem to miss so much.

It's become apparent to me that certain people in this world just don't understand the price of freedom or the responsibility of self determination.

Yes, George Bush sent Americans to Afghanistan to bring "dignity and self determination". Wow you're well informed.

[Adam228]

Unfortunatly in these situations it's very difficult to know who your enemy is.

We regret every innocent live lost, but we can't ask our soldiers to risk their lives on a chance the man walking toward them doesn't mean harm.

We don't just mow down women and children. 9/10 there is some kind of warning to disperse or stop moving toward the convoy.

[974g63awd]

Originally Posted by Adam228

Unfortunatly in these situations it's very difficult to know who your enemy is.

We regret every innocent live lost, but we can't ask our soldiers to risk their lives on a chance the man walking toward them doesn't mean harm.

We don't just mow down women and children. 9/10 there is some kind of warning to disperse or stop moving toward the convoy.

QFT.

[Lothar]

Originally Posted by BVAV

Yes, George Bush sent Americans to Afghanistan to bring "dignity and self determination". Wow you're well informed.

Quick, invest everything in Tin Foil!

[Lloyd Braun]

Originally Posted by redoutlet

Last I checked Afghanis never welcomed the U.S. into their country nor agreed to giving up their childrens' lives in exchange for freedom.

Neither did your regular German or Japanese citizen but they were in the unfortunate position of having been born in a country which waged war against the United States. Likewise your average Afghani never welcomed the US into their country but they were born in a country whose leadership decided to intermix, train and house a terrorist organization which flew airplanes into the WTC and for that they were ousted and their country subject to whatever whims the US desired (and it just so happened that our country instead of simply smashing countries in which we wage war, smashes them and then rebuilds them).

And don't try to convince yourself that life is different than before-the same warlords still operate freely and are allied with the karzai government. Same lifestyle, new rulers.

Unfortunately. This is one of the poorest and least modernized countries in the world. It's going to take a long time to get back on track.

[redoutlet]

Originally Posted by Perspacitos

Neither did your regular German or Japanese citizen but they were in the unfortunate position of having been born in a country which waged war against the United States. Likewise your average Afghani never welcomed the US into their country but they were born in a country whose leadership decided to intermix, train and house a terrorist organization which flew airplanes into the WTC and for that they were ousted and their country subject to whatever whims the US desired (and it just so happened that our country instead of simply smashing countries in which we wage war, smashes them and then rebuilds them).




Unfortunately. This is one of the poorest and least modernized countries in the world. It's going to take a long time to get back on track.

That is the point I wanted to get across. Right now we are on top and wage war as we please. Aside from 9-11 there has been no recent aggression on our turf, but there are families and property being destroyed. This creates bitterness and will only fuel terrorism. The war on terror is an endless cycle and little kids pay the price. In the future if we are ever attacked people will still buy the b.s. argument that we were attacked because they hate our freedom in reality it is incidents like these- mistake or not- that cause hate. Does anyone remember the families that were killed by a bomb dropped on them a few years ago because pilots thought they were being fired upon when in fact it was the custom of the people to shoot guns in the air in celebration? I don't think apologies are enough in these cases and it is easy to brush this mistake aside but the mistakes add up.

[Chowboy]

Originally Posted by 974g63awd

I was born in Kabul right before the soviet occupancy. My family and I were fortunate to leave during this war. After the war was over, the country basicaly fell to ****. Most of the country was destroyed and most of the people were living in poverty. This is when the taliban started to occupy the country and began forcing their laws (ie burkas, men wearing beards, no laughing in public!!!, etc.) I was sponsoring a family at the the time and they would tell me stories about what the taliban were doing. Beatings, public executions during soccer matches, etc...This being said, I can tell you right now that the afghan people were more than happy to see the US aid them. Would we be there aiding them if 9-11 did not happen? Most likely not. The people there would still be suffering under the taliban dictatorship.

No Offense, Sand Negger. I have a lot of respect for you and perspective. I just get a little upset sometimes with all the anti-American BS that goes on around here.

[skinnyfred]

Originally Posted by Chowboy

Maybe we should just let them, the Afghans/Taliban, go back to the cave men they were... same with Iraq.

We expended American Capital and American blood trying to bring dignity and self determination to a bunch of people who obviously can't deal with it. Let 'em go back to thier stonings, thier people shredders, the midnight kidnappings and all those lovely things some of you folks seem to miss so much.

It's become apparent to me that certain people in this world just don't understand the price of freedom or the responsibility of self determination.

LOL, nobody asked for the United States help...you need to STFU because you know absolutely nothing about Afghanistan...stonings..lol..dude just STFU, go open up a history book and learn about Afghanistan...you think you know everything about Afghanistan just because you see **** on the news for the past 2 years..oh yeah what a educational experience.

[974g63awd]

Originally Posted by Chowboy

No Offense, Sand Negger. I have a lot of respect for you and perspective. I just get a little upset sometimes with all the anti-American BS that goes on around here.

No offense taken. As you can read in my post, I am all for the US aid of my home country. And yes, I as well get upset when I hear anti-American BS. Why? Becasue the US is my country and I realize where I could have been had I not moved here. It makes me very upset when people take advantage and complain about what they have insted of being thankful they don't live in one of those 3rd world **** holes.


BTW, "Sand Negger" is simply a joke. Would you mind addressing me as my user name? Sorry to sound so PC.

[Chowboy]

Originally Posted by 974g63awd

No offense taken. As you can read in my post, I am all for the US aid of my home country. And yes, I as well get upset when I hear anti-American BS. Why? Becasue the US is my country and I realize where I could have been had I not moved here. It makes me very upset when people take advantage and complain about what they have insted of being thankful they don't live in one of those 3rd world **** holes.


BTW, "Sand Negger" is simply a joke. Would you mind addressing me as my user name? Sorry to sound so PC.

Good to hear we are kool! And yes, I won't use "SN" word again. It is awful cute though...

[NuggzTheNinja]

Originally Posted by 974g63awd

No offense taken. As you can read in my post, I am all for the US aid of my home country. And yes, I as well get upset when I hear anti-American BS. Why? Becasue the US is my country and I realize where I could have been had I not moved here. It makes me very upset when people take advantage and complain about what they have insted of being thankful they don't live in one of those 3rd world **** holes.


BTW, "Sand Negger" is simply a joke. Would you mind addressing me as my user name? Sorry to sound so PC.

Bro, is that some kind of memory test? Your username is so difficult to remember. :P