Bodybuilding.com Forums
Old 11-21-2009, 12:35 AM   #1
Skunk
Registered Abuser
 
Skunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Livermore, California, United States
Age: 25
Stats: 5'8", 195 lbs
Posts: 7,117
BodyBlog Entries: 0
BodyPoints: 0
Rep Power: 9549
Skunk has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Skunk has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Skunk has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Skunk has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Skunk has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Skunk has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Skunk has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Skunk has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Skunk has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Skunk has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Skunk has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)
Visit Skunk's BodySpace
Stem Cell: The First Human Trial

Stem cells: the first human trial
Revolutionary treatment using human embryos for patients with incurable blindness
By Steve Connor, Science Editor
Friday, 20 November 2009

People suffering from a form of incurable blindness could soon become the first patients in the world to benefit from a new and controversial transplant operation using stem cells derived from spare human embryos left over from IVF treatment.

Scientists working for an American biotechnology company yesterday applied for a licence to carry out a clinical trial on patients in the US suffering from a type of macular degeneration, which causes gradual loss of vision. They expect the transplant operations to begin early in the new year.

The development is highly controversial because many "pro-life" groups are opposed to using human embryos in any kind of medical research but scientists believe that the benefits could revolutionise the treatment of many incurable disorders ranging from Parkinson's to heart disease.

The company has applied for a licence from the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) and is confident of its application being granted.

"We've seen absolutely no adverse effects whatsoever in any of the preclinical experiments and our cells are more than 99.9 per cent pure," said Dr Robert Lanza, the chief scientific officer of Advanced Cell Technology (ACT) in Worcester, Massachusetts.

"We certainly expect them [the FDA] to come back with comments and questions but our hope is that we will start sometime early next year. We're optimistic and certainly confident in our own data. We've been in dialogue [with the FDA] and we know what was on their mind and what they wanted us to do," he said. "We're hoping, assuming no hitches, to begin early next year, perhaps March."

Stem cells derived from human embryos that are only a few days old have the ability to develop into any of the scores of specialised tissues of the body. The hope is that they could be used to repair the damaged organs and tissues of patients with a relatively simple transplant procedure.

ACT has filed an "investigational new drug" application with the FDA to treat a form of progressive damage to the retina of the eye called Stargardt's macular degeneration, which destroys the central part of the retina involved in recognising faces and reading words on a page. They also intend to follow this with an application to treat age-related macular degeneration, which affects more than 500,000 people in Britain and is the most common cause of blindness.

"We hope to file a second application for age-related macular degeneration very soon within the next few months," said Dr Lanza. "I think we've put together a pretty convincing case but the FDA has to be pretty careful. I'm sure they will come back to us in the next 30 days with more questions."

The treatment for eye disease uses stem cells to recreate a type of cell in the retina that supports the photoreceptors needed for vision. These cells form the retinal pigment epithelium – which keep the light-sensing cells of the retina alive – which are often the first to die off in macular degeneration, which in turn leads to loss of vision, he said.

A single cell from a human embryo left over from IVF treatment was used in the creation of the stem cell "line" that Dr Lanza and his colleagues cultivated in the laboratory. By bathing the stem cells in a suite of chemical messengers, they were able to stimulate them to develop into fully mature retinal pigment epithelium cells.

Tests on animals found that transplants of the human cells into rats with macular degeneration resulted in a "100 per cent improvement" in vision with no side-effects, Dr Lanza said. Transplants into the 12 human volunteers chosen as guinea pigs for the first clinical trial will involve giving them mild immuno-suppressant drugs to prevent tissue rejection.

"We're going to take a precautionary approach and use low-dose immuno-suppression after the operation and after six weeks we'll taper it off. We don't know whether we will really need it," Dr Lanza said.

He said the clinical trial could well be the first in the world because the only other company that had received a licence from the FDA had had to delay the start of its own clinical trial until the end of next year.

Geron, which received its FDA licence earlier this year, has run into safety problems with experiments on animals involving the growth of cysts. It has had to provide further information to the FDA in order to satisfy nervous regulators that the new technique is as safe as possible.

Meanwhile, ACT believes it has stolen a march on Geron because its own pre-clinical studies on animals have shown that its embryonic stem cells are extremely pure and safe with no signs of the cysts seen in the animals injected with the embryonic stem cells that Geron was hoping to use in patients suffering from spinal cord injuries. "They've been through this with Geron and the company has put out an announcement that they won't start until the third quarter of next year, so ours may well be the first trial," Dr Lanza said.

A similar proposal to treat age-related macular degeneration with embryonic stem cells is being developed by scientists in Britain led by Professor Pete Coffey of University College London, but this clinical trial is unlikely to start until early 2011. "It's such a complex, wholly new process that nobody had done before and it has to be done properly," he said.

"It hasn't been done before in humans and that is affecting the last stages of the plan to get into the clinic so it's obvious that we don't want anything to go wrong. But someone has to be the first take that step."

Dr Lanza said that extensive work had been done to ensure that the cells derived from embryonic stem cells were of high enough quality to be considered clinical grade. His company has submitted nine volumes of safety data to the FDA to address concerns over purity and the possibility that the stem cells may trigger the formation of cancerous tumours.

"What we definitely have going for us is that the cells are so well purified, well characterised and there are no adverse effects. So there is nothing here to send up a flag of concern," Dr Lanza said. "It has been over a decade since human embryonic stem cells were first discovered. The field desperately needs a big clinical success."

"After years of research and political debate, we're finally on the verge of showing the potential clinical value of embryonic stem cells. Our research clearly shows that stem cell-derived retinal cells can rescue visual function in animals that otherwise would have gone blind.

"We are hopeful that the cells will be similarly efficacious in patients," Dr Lanza added.

Medical focus: Stem-cell research

Q. Why do we hear so much about stem-cell research?

A. Scientists believe that by exploiting the potential of embryonic stem cells to develop into any cells of the body, they may be able to treat many incurable conditions.

Q. What is the difference between embryonic stem cells and adult stem cells?

A. Embryonic stem cells are derived from embryos just a few days old, collected in fertility clinics. Although the embryos would have been destroyed, many people have ethical objections to their use for any purpose other than reproduction. Adult stem cells are derived from skin cells or bone marrow cells which are treated so that they acquire the properties of embryonic stem cells, but not everybody is convinced this works.

Q. What has non-embryonic stem cell research achieved?

A. Claudia Castillo, from Barcelona, received a whole organ transplant grown using her own stem cells and without the need for powerful anti-rejection drugs. Surgeons used a windpipe from a donor which they stripped of all living cells and re-seeded with cells grown in the laboratory from Ms Castillo's bone marrow.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/sc...l-1824099.html
__________________
Milk is for babies. When you grow up you have to drink beer.
Skunk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2009, 01:32 AM   #2
Mr Bounce
Registered User
 
Mr Bounce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Australia
Age: 19
Stats: 5'10", 205 lbs
Posts: 2,489
BodyBlog Entries: 0
BodyPoints: 6512
Rep Power: 223
Mr Bounce has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Mr Bounce has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Mr Bounce has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Mr Bounce has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Mr Bounce has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Mr Bounce has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Mr Bounce has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Mr Bounce has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Mr Bounce has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Mr Bounce has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Mr Bounce has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)
Visit Mr Bounce's BodySpace
Send a message via MSN to Mr Bounce
Excellent, stem cell research is very promising and I'm pleased that we're finally getting around the road blocks and heading towards results.
Mr Bounce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2009, 03:40 AM   #3
Kumquatv1
AA: The Hebrew Hammer
 
Kumquatv1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Dallas, Texas, United States
Age: 30
Posts: 1,714
BodyBlog Entries: 0
BodyPoints: 8731
Rep Power: 211
Kumquatv1 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Kumquatv1 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Kumquatv1 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Kumquatv1 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Kumquatv1 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Kumquatv1 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Kumquatv1 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Kumquatv1 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Kumquatv1 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Kumquatv1 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Kumquatv1 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)
Visit Kumquatv1's BodySpace
I know I am opening the can of worms but I just don't get what the big hang up is. The embryos used for stem cell research are leftover from fertility treatments where they fertilize a **** ton of eggs and then start the implantation process. Once it succeeds the rest of the embryos are not needed. If they are used for stem cell treatment we could be saving lives where as if we did not use them they would be simply thrown away. They are dead either way and at least they can be used to make life better for people. This could end up as a cure for blindness, deafness, ****ing alzheimers, parkinsons, lou gerigs. I guess I just don't see the point to throwing them away rather than using them to help people.
__________________
Striving to be better than ever.

Shabbat shalom mother ****er

Proud token Jew of the Atheist Alliance.
Kumquatv1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2009, 04:25 AM   #4
Large_Emu
Atheist Alliance
 
Large_Emu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Norwich, Norfolk, United Kingdom (Great Britain)
Age: 20
Stats: 5'8", 123 lbs
Posts: 3,940
BodyBlog Entries: 0
BodyPoints: 0
Rep Power: 887
Large_Emu has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Large_Emu has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Large_Emu has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Large_Emu has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Large_Emu has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Large_Emu has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Large_Emu has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Large_Emu has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Large_Emu has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Large_Emu has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Large_Emu has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)
Visit Large_Emu's BodySpace
awesome! I love stem cell research!
__________________
"worship me or i will torture you for eternity" - God.

Religion is dying, rejoice!
Large_Emu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2009, 09:21 AM   #5
momofo
Momofo Alliance
 
momofo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Connecticut, United States
Age: 31
Posts: 2,293
BodyBlog Entries: 0
BodyPoints: 0
Rep Power: 1109
momofo has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)momofo has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)momofo has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)momofo has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)momofo has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)momofo has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)momofo has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)momofo has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)momofo has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)momofo has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)momofo has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)
Visit momofo's BodySpace
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kumquatv1 View Post
I know I am opening the can of worms but I just don't get what the big hang up is. The embryos used for stem cell research are leftover from fertility treatments where they fertilize a **** ton of eggs and then start the implantation process. Once it succeeds the rest of the embryos are not needed. If they are used for stem cell treatment we could be saving lives where as if we did not use them they would be simply thrown away. They are dead either way and at least they can be used to make life better for people. This could end up as a cure for blindness, deafness, ****ing alzheimers, parkinsons, lou gerigs. I guess I just don't see the point to throwing them away rather than using them to help people.
The big hangup is with the Religious Right. Anyone who looks at this issue without superstitious cultism clouding their view can see that HESCR harms no one and can potentially benefit us as a species tremendously.
momofo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2009, 10:12 AM   #6
Stangmaniak
Registered User
 
Stangmaniak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Stats: 6'1", 205 lbs
Posts: 696
BodyBlog Entries: 0
BodyPoints: 1257
Rep Power: 267
Stangmaniak has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Stangmaniak has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Stangmaniak has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Stangmaniak has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Stangmaniak has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Stangmaniak has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Stangmaniak has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Stangmaniak has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Stangmaniak has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Stangmaniak has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Stangmaniak has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)
Visit Stangmaniak's BodySpace
Finally a cure for herpes!














wut
__________________
"Don’t bother just to be better than your contemporaries or predecessors. Try to be better than yourself."William Faulkner
Stangmaniak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2009, 10:18 AM   #7
stateless
:-\
 
stateless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 6,444
BodyBlog Entries: 0
BodyPoints: 145
Rep Power: 1805
stateless has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)stateless has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)stateless has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)stateless has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)stateless has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)stateless has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)stateless has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)stateless has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)stateless has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)stateless has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)stateless has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)
Visit stateless's BodySpace
Glad to hear it!
stateless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2009, 10:23 AM   #8
J-Bol
MMIX
 
J-Bol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Indiana, United States
Stats: 5'10", 230 lbs
Posts: 13,189
BodyBlog Entries: 0
BodyPoints: 20190
Rep Power: 4987
J-Bol has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)J-Bol has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)J-Bol has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)J-Bol has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)J-Bol has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)J-Bol has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)J-Bol has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)J-Bol has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)J-Bol has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)J-Bol has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)J-Bol has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)
Visit J-Bol's BodySpace
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skunk View Post
...
Q. What is the difference between embryonic stem cells and adult stem cells?

A. Embryonic stem cells are derived from embryos just a few days old, collected in fertility clinics. Although the embryos would have been destroyed, many people have ethical objections to their use for any purpose other than reproduction. Adult stem cells are derived from skin cells or bone marrow cells which are treated so that they acquire the properties of embryonic stem cells, but not everybody is convinced this works.
What? lol... So far, adult stem cells have proven to do much more than embryonic stem cells. This is a fact. Adult stem cells have cured more illnesses than embryonic stem cells.

Q. What has non-embryonic stem cell research achieved?

A. Claudia Castillo, from Barcelona, received a whole organ transplant grown using her own stem cells and without the need for powerful anti-rejection drugs. Surgeons used a windpipe from a donor which they stripped of all living cells and re-seeded with cells grown in the laboratory from Ms Castillo's bone marrow.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/sc...l-1824099.html[/QUOTE]

They have done more than allow someone to receive an organ transplant.
Quote:
Cancers:
1. Brain Cancer
2. Retinoblastoma
3. Ovarian Cancer
4. Skin Cancer: Merkel Cell Carcinoma
5. Testicular Cancer
6. Tumors abdominal organs Lymphoma
7. Non-Hodgkin?s lymphoma
8. Hodgkin?s Lymphoma
9. Acute Lymphoblastic Leukemia
10. Acute Myelogenous Leukemia
11. Chronic Myelogenous Leukemia
12. Juvenile Myelomonocytic Leukemia
13. Chronic Myelomonocytic Leukemia
14. Cancer of the lymph nodes: Angioimmunoblastic Lymphadenopathy
15. Multiple Myeloma
16. Myelodysplasia
17. Breast Cancer
18. Neuroblastoma
19. Renal Cell Carcinoma
20. Various Solid Tumors
21. Soft Tissue Sarcoma
22. Ewing?s Sarcoma
23. Waldenstrom?s macroglobulinemia
24. Hemophagocytic lymphohistiocytosis
25. POEMS syndrome
26. Myelofibrosis

Auto-Immune Diseases
27. Diabetes Type I (Juvenile)
28. Systemic Lupus
29. Sjogren?s Syndrome
30. Myasthenia
31. Autoimmune Cytopenia
32. Scleromyxedema
33. Scleroderma
34. Crohn?s Disease
35. Behcet?s Disease
36. Rheumatoid Arthritis
37. Juvenile Arthritis
38. Multiple Sclerosis
39. Polychondritis
40. Systemic Vasculitis
41. Alopecia Universalis
42. Buerger?s Disease

Cardiovascular
43. Acute Heart Damage
44. Chronic Coronary Artery Disease

Ocular
45. Corneal regeneration

Immunodeficiencies
46. Severe Combined Immunodeficiency Syndrome
47. X-linked Lymphoproliferative Syndrome
48. X-linked Hyper immunoglobulin M Syndrome

Neural Degenerative Diseases and Injuries
49. Parkinson?s Disease
50. Spinal Cord Injury
51. Stroke Damage

Anemias and Other Blood Conditions
52. Sickle Cell Anemia
53. Sideroblastic Anemia
54. Aplastic Anemia
55. Red Cell Aplasia
56. Amegakaryocytic Thrombocytopenia
57. Thalassemia
58. Primary Amyloidosis
59. Diamond Blackfan Anemia
60. Fanconi?s Anemia
61. Chronic Epstein-Barr Infection

Wounds and Injuries
62. Limb Gangrene
63. Surface Wound Healing
64. Jawbone Replacement
65. Skull Bone Repair

Other Metabolic Disorders
66. Hurler?s Syndrome
67. Osteogenesis Imperfecta
68. Krabbe Leukodystrophy
69. Osteopetrosis
70. Cerebral X-Linked Adrenoleukodystrophy

Liver Disease
71. Chronic Liver Failure
72. Liver Cirrhosis

Bladder Disease
73. End-Stage Bladder Disease

And they can be harvested in more ways than skin and bone marrow cells. They didn't include placentas, umbilical cords, amniotic fluid, body tissues, and cadavers.

Sure, embryonic stem cells *may* have more potential, but let's not say they are the be all end all in curing diseases when they have no track record.
__________________
"The Bible is an anvil that has worn out many hammers."

Misc zombie survival BRAVO Squad: Kicking ass and chewing bubble gum and I'm all out of gum.
J-Bol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2009, 10:43 AM   #9
AJbuilder
Number One Man
 
AJbuilder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Polaris
Age: 26
Posts: 12,549
Rep Power: 820
AJbuilder has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)AJbuilder has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)AJbuilder has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)AJbuilder has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)AJbuilder has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)AJbuilder has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)AJbuilder has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)AJbuilder has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)AJbuilder has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)AJbuilder has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)AJbuilder has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)
Have any of you actually looked at the practicality of embryonic stem cells and the research behind it? Stem cells, by itself, is not magic.

In order to develop cells vital enough to treat "incurable" conditions, you're going to need to the entire genetic pool of that tissue being treated. This involves cloning. That's the blunt truth that scientists refuse to admit. You can't just inject a few cells into a tissue and expect to be cured. Doesn't work that way. Stem cells is not medicine. It's a process.

Tissue regeneration only occurs if you grow the entire tissue separately or fuse it with the body during surgery. That's where the real potential is.

The next step of research on stem cell is cloning. Stem cell research is cloning.
__________________
"Knowing is not enough, one must apply" ~ Bruce Lee
AJbuilder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2009, 10:47 AM   #10
Melkor
Heavy Lifter
 
Melkor's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Stats: 6'2", 225 lbs
Posts: 16,484
BodyBlog Entries: 0
BodyPoints: 2714
Rep Power: 6304
Melkor has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Melkor has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Melkor has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Melkor has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Melkor has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Melkor has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Melkor has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Melkor has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Melkor has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Melkor has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Melkor has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)
Visit Melkor's BodySpace
I'm curious why people are so determined to use embryonic stem cells when adult stem cells have been shown (from what I have read) to be much more promising and have more uses. Anyone know why?
__________________
A noble spirit embiggens the smallest man.

"Out of damp and gloomy days, out of solitude, out of loveless words directed at us, conclusions grow up in us like fungus: one morning they are there, we know not how, and they gaze upon us, morose and gray. Woe to the thinker who is not the gardener but only the soil of the plants that grow in him."
-Nietzsche
Melkor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2009, 02:42 PM   #11
Kumquatv1
AA: The Hebrew Hammer
 
Kumquatv1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Dallas, Texas, United States
Age: 30
Posts: 1,714
BodyBlog Entries: 0
BodyPoints: 8731
Rep Power: 211
Kumquatv1 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Kumquatv1 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Kumquatv1 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Kumquatv1 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Kumquatv1 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Kumquatv1 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Kumquatv1 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Kumquatv1 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Kumquatv1 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Kumquatv1 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Kumquatv1 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)
Visit Kumquatv1's BodySpace
I would say melkor it is because of the lack of proper funding over the last 8 years under the Republicans. Under those conditions it is hardly surprising that adult stem cells, who had no restrictions on funding and harvesting, would have shown more by now. We need to do more work with embryonic stem cells before we can conclude which is better. Also, I bring up the point what is the harm with using these embyonic stem cells when they will just be thrown away otherwise. They are just as dead either way.
__________________
Striving to be better than ever.

Shabbat shalom mother ****er

Proud token Jew of the Atheist Alliance.
Kumquatv1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2009, 04:59 PM   #12
eehee
LVL 10 Wizard.
 
eehee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Queens, Kingston, Ontario
Age: 24
Posts: 2,161
BodyBlog Entries: 0
BodyPoints: 7113
Rep Power: 170
eehee has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)eehee has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)eehee has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)eehee has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)eehee has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)eehee has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)eehee has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)eehee has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)eehee has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)eehee has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)eehee has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)
Visit eehee's BodySpace
glad to hear of this.
__________________
5'8 168 12%

training for strength, endurance, explosiveness, flexibility, and overall sense of health and well being.
eehee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2009, 05:03 PM   #13
James187
Registered User
 
James187's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Australia
Age: 20
Stats: 5'9", 179 lbs
Posts: 405
BodyBlog Entries: 0
BodyPoints: 4251
Rep Power: 294
James187 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)James187 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)James187 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)James187 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)James187 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)James187 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)James187 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)James187 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)James187 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)James187 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)James187 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)
Visit James187's BodySpace
Thumbs up

About time, awesome news.
__________________
DESTROY.ERASE.IMPROVE.
James187 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2009, 05:53 PM   #14
Melkor
Heavy Lifter
 
Melkor's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Stats: 6'2", 225 lbs
Posts: 16,484
BodyBlog Entries: 0
BodyPoints: 2714
Rep Power: 6304
Melkor has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Melkor has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Melkor has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Melkor has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Melkor has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Melkor has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Melkor has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Melkor has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Melkor has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Melkor has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Melkor has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)
Visit Melkor's BodySpace
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kumquatv1 View Post
I would say melkor it is because of the lack of proper funding over the last 8 years under the Republicans. Under those conditions it is hardly surprising that adult stem cells, who had no restrictions on funding and harvesting, would have shown more by now. We need to do more work with embryonic stem cells before we can conclude which is better. Also, I bring up the point what is the harm with using these embyonic stem cells when they will just be thrown away otherwise. They are just as dead either way.
That would make sense, although to me it seems like if you have two possible choices and one has no potential morality issues then why not take that choice anyway? If they both work, which seems to be the case, why not just avoid the potential issues and all the stink involved.
__________________
A noble spirit embiggens the smallest man.

"Out of damp and gloomy days, out of solitude, out of loveless words directed at us, conclusions grow up in us like fungus: one morning they are there, we know not how, and they gaze upon us, morose and gray. Woe to the thinker who is not the gardener but only the soil of the plants that grow in him."
-Nietzsche
Melkor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2009, 06:22 PM   #15
Kumquatv1
AA: The Hebrew Hammer
 
Kumquatv1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Dallas, Texas, United States
Age: 30
Posts: 1,714
BodyBlog Entries: 0
BodyPoints: 8731
Rep Power: 211
Kumquatv1 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Kumquatv1 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Kumquatv1 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Kumquatv1 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Kumquatv1 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Kumquatv1 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Kumquatv1 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Kumquatv1 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Kumquatv1 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Kumquatv1 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Kumquatv1 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)
Visit Kumquatv1's BodySpace
From what I understand there is an issue with the stem cells going cancerous. I know it is for adult stem cells, Im not sure how that issue is regarding embryonic. I see it more of a matter of we simply don't know the full potential of each one yet and until we do we can't make those types of decisions. Now I got a date to go to so ta ta heh.
__________________
Striving to be better than ever.

Shabbat shalom mother ****er

Proud token Jew of the Atheist Alliance.
Kumquatv1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2009, 07:29 PM   #16
MindFree
Registered User
 
MindFree's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Age: 29
Stats: 1'9", 84 lbs
Posts: 567
BodyBlog Entries: 0
BodyPoints: 0
Rep Power: 122
MindFree has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)MindFree has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)MindFree has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)MindFree has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)MindFree has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)MindFree has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)MindFree has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)MindFree has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)MindFree has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)MindFree has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)MindFree has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)
Visit MindFree's BodySpace
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kumquatv1 View Post
From what I understand there is an issue with the stem cells going cancerous. I know it is for adult stem cells, Im not sure how that issue is regarding embryonic. I see it more of a matter of we simply don't know the full potential of each one yet and until we do we can't make those types of decisions. Now I got a date to go to so ta ta heh.
"God never intended this"
__________________
True misc brahs this is for you:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?p=413244811#post413244811
^For the misc brahs

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=120130891

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=119906261

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=404911931&postcount=18
MindFree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2009, 07:59 PM   #17
neonhypoxia
WARNING: Wetware Error
 
neonhypoxia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Age: 27
Posts: 2,110
Rep Power: 1535
neonhypoxia has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)neonhypoxia has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)neonhypoxia has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)neonhypoxia has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)neonhypoxia has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)neonhypoxia has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)neonhypoxia has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)neonhypoxia has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)neonhypoxia has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)neonhypoxia has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)neonhypoxia has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kumquatv1 View Post
From what I understand there is an issue with the stem cells going cancerous. I know it is for adult stem cells, Im not sure how that issue is regarding embryonic. I see it more of a matter of we simply don't know the full potential of each one yet and until we do we can't make those types of decisions. Now I got a date to go to so ta ta heh.
The adult ones have an issue with telomere degridation that can cause them to prematurely undergo apoptosis or potentialy become cancerous. Embryonic ones on the other hand do not have this issue as embryonic cells have complete telomeres unlike adult cells.

The "adult stems cells have been proven to do more" propaganda is utter bullsh*t. Adult stem cell lines in the U.S. ONLY have been shown to be successful in more testing than embryonic ones in total number only. However this is due to a moritorium on certain types of funding from the federal government that was done via a presidential mandate under Bush. In terms of the rate of success embroyic ones are still in the lead in the U.S. However this is just if you look at the research conducted in the U.S. only. If you look at the total world wide research embryonic stem cells have been more successful both in total numbers as well as in rate.

Its always amazing how many people think they are informed on a subject when infact all they are doing is regurgitating political or religious propaganda. Please, pick up a science journal next time.

By the way this isn't meant to be construded as me actually be pissed at anyone here so don't take it personaly. As a scientist though I get extremely annoyed at people commenting on science subjects that have no clue what they are talking about. If you have honest question then ask them. Most scientist are more than happy to answer although sometimes we do have a bad tendency to talk over people's heads. In that case just tell us to shut the hell up and use smaller words. However acting like you are informed on a subject when you don't have a clue is like nails on a chalkboard.

Now, moving on and getting to the actual subject. We really don't know how useful stem cells are or aren't. There has been alot of exageration on both sides by the media. To be completely honest more testing needs to be done including human testing before we can say for certain. It may perform far better than what most research expect or they could completely bomb. That's the whole point of research, to find out for certain.

Much more testing also needs to be done to explore exactly how to use them properly. For example lets say you are trying to treat Parkinson's. Can you just cause them to differentiate in vitro into dopamine producing cells and simply inject them into the proper regions of the brain? Or do you need to grow them into the proper structer they naturaly take in the mesolimbic and surgically implant them? We don't know. If you can just inject them into the area that would make them far more useful than if full surgery is required. So this is a major issue we need to figure out.

This is why human testing is so important. They make work great or they might not do much. They may be easy to use or very difficult to use. The only way we can be certain is human testing. And that's where the discussion ends. We don't know enough yet about it to even hold a discussion that isn't based upon assumptions and grey areas of knowledge.
__________________
All of this has been posted before, and all of this will be posted again.
neonhypoxia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2009, 08:02 PM   #18
ksheab
Registered User
 
ksheab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Age: 38
Stats: 6'3", 242 lbs
Posts: 2,001
BodyBlog Entries: 0
BodyPoints: 799
Rep Power: 0
ksheab is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank)ksheab is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank)ksheab is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank)ksheab is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank)ksheab is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank)ksheab is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank)ksheab is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank)ksheab is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank)ksheab is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank)ksheab is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank)ksheab is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank)
Visit ksheab's BodySpace
any fetus used is murder until argued otherwise.
ksheab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2009, 08:07 PM   #19
neonhypoxia
WARNING: Wetware Error
 
neonhypoxia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Age: 27
Posts: 2,110
Rep Power: 1535
neonhypoxia has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)neonhypoxia has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)neonhypoxia has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)neonhypoxia has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)neonhypoxia has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)neonhypoxia has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)neonhypoxia has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)neonhypoxia has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)neonhypoxia has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)neonhypoxia has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)neonhypoxia has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksheab View Post
any fetus used is murder until argued otherwise.
Cold hard truth, those gelatinous masses that you are so morally attached to and that I might add if you saw one in your kitchen you'de step on it trying to kill it; yeah, those things are going in the trash anyways.

They aren't just making embryos so they can harvest stem cells from them. They were already made and they were already destinited to go into the biohazard incinerator. Atleast this way they might help someone.
__________________
All of this has been posted before, and all of this will be posted again.
neonhypoxia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2009, 08:08 PM   #20
MindFree
Registered User
 
MindFree's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Age: 29
Stats: 1'9", 84 lbs
Posts: 567
BodyBlog Entries: 0
BodyPoints: 0
Rep Power: 122
MindFree has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)MindFree has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)MindFree has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)MindFree has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)MindFree has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)MindFree has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)MindFree has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)MindFree has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)MindFree has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)MindFree has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)MindFree has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)
Visit MindFree's BodySpace
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksheab View Post
any fetus used is murder until argued otherwise.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stem_cell#Embryonic

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stem_cell#Amniotic
__________________
True misc brahs this is for you:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?p=413244811#post413244811
^For the misc brahs

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=120130891

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=119906261

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=404911931&postcount=18
MindFree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2009, 08:14 PM   #21
TheAnimal_013
将軍
 
TheAnimal_013's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: United States
Age: 16
Stats: 5'11", 180 lbs
Posts: 8,976
BodyBlog Entries: 0
BodyPoints: 10797
Rep Power: 715
TheAnimal_013 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)TheAnimal_013 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)TheAnimal_013 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)TheAnimal_013 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)TheAnimal_013 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)TheAnimal_013 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)TheAnimal_013 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)TheAnimal_013 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)TheAnimal_013 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)TheAnimal_013 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)TheAnimal_013 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)
Visit TheAnimal_013's BodySpace
Send a message via AIM to TheAnimal_013
in so I can read this later
__________________
$**~Last of the Brohicans Crew~**$
---

February 18, 2008- Roffles Day, NEVER FORGET

"There are no limits, you are only limited by however far you want to be limited" - Chuck Schuldiner

"True enemies are better than false friends.-Dave Mustaine

R.I.P. Monte, you were the best misc mascot ever 11/3/09
TheAnimal_013 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2009, 08:16 PM   #22
ksheab
Registered User
 
ksheab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Age: 38
Stats: 6'3", 242 lbs
Posts: 2,001
BodyBlog Entries: 0
BodyPoints: 799
Rep Power: 0
ksheab is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank)ksheab is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank)ksheab is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank)ksheab is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank)ksheab is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank)ksheab is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank)ksheab is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank)ksheab is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank)ksheab is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank)ksheab is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank)ksheab is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank)
Visit ksheab's BodySpace
love the late edition mind free.

is that the volume u all got?
is that it?
hehe
ksheab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2009, 11:01 AM   #23
Kumquatv1
AA: The Hebrew Hammer
 
Kumquatv1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Dallas, Texas, United States
Age: 30
Posts: 1,714
BodyBlog Entries: 0
BodyPoints: 8731
Rep Power: 211
Kumquatv1 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Kumquatv1 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Kumquatv1 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Kumquatv1 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Kumquatv1 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Kumquatv1 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Kumquatv1 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Kumquatv1 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Kumquatv1 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Kumquatv1 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)Kumquatv1 has a reputation beyond repute. Best rank possible! (+100000)
Visit Kumquatv1's BodySpace
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksheab View Post
any fetus used is murder until argued otherwise.
So by your argument prom night dumpster babies are not murdered. Gotcha
__________________
Striving to be better than ever.

Shabbat shalom mother ****er

Proud token Jew of the Atheist Alliance.
Kumquatv1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
If Adam and Eve were the first human beings? kobrien21 Religion / Politics 79 03-25-2009 08:35 AM
FDA allows first test of human stem cell therapy psych Religion / Politics 2 01-26-2009 04:15 PM
The first human rituals riptor Religion / Politics 2 12-02-2006 09:52 AM
who will be the first human to lift all "SIX" stones, includeing the tombstone. waynelucky Powerlifting/Strongman 14 03-17-2006 09:37 AM
The First Thread Bashing Cell-Tech Ever. (coincidence) STUD Teen Bodybuilding 3 07-26-2005 04:00 PM

Member Login

Sign in for more FREE features and tools!

Username or
Email Address:
Password:
Remember Me


New to Bodybuilding.com?
Sign Up Now It's FREE!




All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:16 AM. Archive