Any info on pre exhaust techniques?

[jjones474]

I've always heard alot about using preexhaust to completely fatigue a muscle, but I have read reports that emg was done on different exercises, i.e. squats and they found that total muscle fiber activation was lower after using a pre exhaust exercise as compared to doing a compound exercise without. I would also imagine that doing squats to failure, THEN doing leg extensions would make more sense. Kind of like doing strip sets, but with a different exercise to completely exhaust the muscle. Why would you exhaust the quads with leg ext's, ( a non mass movement), then go do squats with a lesser fraction than you could have used had you NOT done the leg ext's. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't conventional bodybuilding theory state that heavy weights builds muscles? Any thoughts on this? Anyone have those studies I remember reading, or have done studies, experiments on this?

[canyonracerx]

Pre-exhausting is stupid. Fatiguing a muscle does not make it grow otherwise all the fat, lazy people who do arm curls with beer cans until failure would have huge arms. You need to get stronger & heavier....that's it.

[davesporty]

Since when has pre -exhaust been written off??

Pre-exhaust is a principle of training, FACT.

The bench press for example uses the pecs ,triceps, front delts in combination.The pecs are the strongest of these muscles and normally when you press the weight up,the smaller delts and triceps fail long before the pecs.
To compensatefor this,you can do dumbell flys first ,which isolate and pre-exhaust the pecs.Then if you go on to do bench presses,the pecs which are now tired,will go to total fatigue at a bout the same time as the other muscles.
No way is this stupid,you just need to understand what the principle is about.

[canyonracerx]

Originally Posted by davesporty

Since when has pre -exhaust been written off??

Pre-exhaust is a principle of training, FACT.

The bench press for example uses the pecs ,triceps, front delts in combination.The pecs are the strongest of these muscles and normally when you press the weight up,the smaller delts and triceps fail long before the pecs.
To compensatefor this,you can do dumbell flys first ,which isolate and pre-exhaust the pecs.Then if you go on to do bench presses,the pecs which are now tired,will go to total fatigue at a bout the same time as the other muscles.
No way is this stupid,you just need to understand what the principle is about.

It's a "way" to train but it surely isn't a "principle" of training. HIT is also a way to train, and drop sets, super sets, burn out sets, etc....

...all pretty stupid.

[davesporty]

Originally Posted by canyonracerx

It's a "way" to train but it surely isn't a "principle" of training. HIT is also a way to train, and drop sets, super sets, burn out sets, etc....

...all pretty stupid.

Well then Arnie must be stupid ,any kind of principle works .
So tell me what do you actually believe in?

[jdmalm123]

Originally Posted by jjones474

I've always heard alot about using preexhaust to completely fatigue a muscle, but I have read reports that emg was done on different exercises, i.e. squats and they found that total muscle fiber activation was lower after using a pre exhaust exercise as compared to doing a compound exercise without. I would also imagine that doing squats to failure, THEN doing leg extensions would make more sense. Kind of like doing strip sets, but with a different exercise to completely exhaust the muscle. Why would you exhaust the quads with leg ext's, ( a non mass movement), then go do squats with a lesser fraction than you could have used had you NOT done the leg ext's. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't conventional bodybuilding theory state that heavy weights builds muscles? Any thoughts on this? Anyone have those studies I remember reading, or have done studies, experiments on this?

I currently pre-exhaust my legs with leg exts and leg curls then do ATG squats. Trying it after TALLBILL got amazing growth from heavy pre-exhaust iso's followed by lighter squatting. It seems to be working after only 3 weeks.

Consider that leg extensions, especially as the leg is close to and fully extended emphasize the quad muscles nearest the knee. If you squat after pre-exhausting, not only do those muscles have to work harder, but the other quad muslces that aren't as stressed by the ext's have to also work harder b/c they get less assistance from synergists.

[canyonracerx]

Originally Posted by davesporty

Well then Arnie must be stupid ,any kind of principle works .
So tell me what do you actually believe in?

Let's not compare this to someone who is near their max potential and taking steroids, okay. It's like comparing a bear to a kitten and saying if the bear does it and he's huge than if the kitten does it he should get as huge as the bear is too.

Let me see if this makes sense to you, right now I'm at 170lbs squatting 300lbs. I believe that once I'm 190lbs and squatting 400+lbs my legs will be bigger. You believe that I can keep on squatting 300lbs and stay at 170lbs but as long as I pre-exhaust with leg extensions first I'm going to grow.

Food + progressive overloading = growth

Now if you progressively overload with your pre-exhaustion technique do you really believe that it was the pre-exhausting that made you grow?

[Ronnie Rowland]

Pre-exhaustion does not work well IMO..

[iamstr8fire]

I've found good results with pre-exhaustion. As long as you kick the weights up and challenge yourself you'll see some growth.

[davesporty]

Originally Posted by canyonracerx

Let's not compare this to someone who is near their max potential and taking steroids, okay. It's like comparing a bear to a kitten and saying if the bear does it and he's huge than if the kitten does it he should get as huge as the bear is too.

Let me see if this makes sense to you, right now I'm at 170lbs squatting 300lbs. I believe that once I'm 190lbs and squatting 400+lbs my legs will be bigger. You believe that I can keep on squatting 300lbs and stay at 170lbs but as long as I pre-exhaust with leg extensions first I'm going to grow.

Food + progressive overloading = growth

Now if you progressively overload with your pre-exhaustion technique do you really believe that it was the pre-exhausting that made you grow?

Stubborness is a weakness.

All kinds of training principles work u just need to keep the body confused.

food+prog overloading x weeks on end =plateauing.

I think you argue for the fun of it.

[canyonracerx]

Originally Posted by davesporty

Stubborness is a weakness.

All kinds of training principles work u just need to keep the body confused.

food+prog overloading x weeks on end =plateauing.

I think you argue for the fun of it.

Just because I disagree with you doesn't make me stubborn. Yes, all kinds of training principles work but some work better than others. I don't agree that you need to "confuse" the body, in fact I think it's a load of crap. I do agree that "food+prog overloading x weeks on end =plateauing" but plateauing could be 6 months away if you do it right. Once you platue all that is needed is a simple change like switching around exercises, messing with how you progress, messing with the volume/intensity, or adding in a deload week every 6 weeks or whatever.

...and of course I argue for fun, do you argue for boredom?

[canyonracerx]

Originally Posted by iamstr8fire

I've found good results with pre-exhaustion. As long as you kick the weights up and challenge yourself you'll see some growth.

See, this is exactly my point. You say you've found good results and growth with pre-exhaustion "As long as you kick the weights up and challenge yourself". That line is my whole theory to weightlifting. Put that line in front of any goal your trying to achieve and that's how you'll achieve it. I'll bet a million to 1 that the results and growth you found were from upping the weights progressively even though you may not have realized you were doing it.

Now there are different ways of setting up progression; whether it's workout to workout, weekly, monthly, yearly, Linear, Periodized, etc... it all depends on what stage the lifter is at and what he/she can handle. If you stop progressing, you stop growing, and if you don't that than try it yourself.

[ThickAsABrick]

Originally Posted by jjones474

I've always heard alot about using preexhaust to completely fatigue a muscle, but I have read reports that emg was done on different exercises, i.e. squats and they found that total muscle fiber activation was lower after using a pre exhaust exercise as compared to doing a compound exercise without. I would also imagine that doing squats to failure, THEN doing leg extensions would make more sense. Kind of like doing strip sets, but with a different exercise to completely exhaust the muscle. Why would you exhaust the quads with leg ext's, ( a non mass movement), then go do squats with a lesser fraction than you could have used had you NOT done the leg ext's. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't conventional bodybuilding theory state that heavy weights builds muscles? Any thoughts on this? Anyone have those studies I remember reading, or have done studies, experiments on this?

I've seen those studies too.

I think pre-exhaust is crap.

I prefer post-exhaust

[ThickAsABrick]

Also, FYI, pre-exhausting is used for stubborn parts, when food + heavy weights is not enough.
Still not a good choice, IMO, but usually people adopt this when regular progression techniques aren't enough. Just sayin

[canyonracerx]

Originally Posted by ThickAsABrick

I've seen those studies too.

I think pre-exhaust is crap.

I prefer post-exhaust

x2

[VikingMan]

Originally Posted by davesporty

I think you argue for the fun of it.

Funny, I think basically everyone thinks that about you... WHENEVER you post...

Pre-exhaust is largely a waste of time.

[davesporty]

Originally Posted by VikingMan

Funny, I think basically everyone thinks that about you... WHENEVER you post...

Pre-exhaust is largely a waste of time.

U had to add that didn't you,any chance to bite you get you take,move on sonny.

[VikingMan]

Originally Posted by davesporty

U had to add that didn't you,any chance to bite you get you take,move on sonny.

Which bit am I taking a bite at? You arguing for the hell of it? Or pre-exhaust being a waste of time?


lol at a 38 year old calling a 29 year old "sonny". Guess that makes you an old man.... hmmm?

[Lencho]

Originally Posted by davesporty

U had to add that didn't you,any chance to bite you get you take,move on sonny.

Let me see. Should I listen to Dave or Vike?

I'm going to go out on a limb and say Vike.


Hell, it wasn't even even close. Dave is a f*ckstick.


See ya'll in a week!

[davesporty]

Originally Posted by Lencho

Let me see. Should I listen to Dave or Vike?

I'm going to go out on a limb and say Vike.


Hell, it wasn't even even close. Dave is a f*ckstick.


See ya'll in a week!

Stick to replying in a mature manner,i won't even reply to your namecalling,it's pathetic.

[mjw8204]

Originally Posted by davesporty

Stubborness is a weakness.

So is being a f*cking a moron.

I'll settle for stubborness.