Going to failure: Good or Bad?/ Always or Sometimes?

dedicationman · 06-01-2005, 05:26 PM

I always believed in going to failure on every set and some people say that it's not good to go to failure every time. The thing that gets me is that how would doing like 10 reps easy knowing you can do more but adding more volume differ from going to failure on like 6 reps with a heavier weight. Wouldn't more weight create an overload on your muscles making them grow? i mean if you can do like 10 reps easy why would your muscles have a reason to grow?

Discuss.

Mikey1 · 06-01-2005, 05:41 PM

failure fries your CNS, and is completely NOT nessessary......going to failure on the first set of your workout just destroys the rest of your workout.....

if your driving a car from new york to cali.....would you want to be low on gas when your leaving new york?....or low on gas when approaching cali ??

dedicationman · 06-01-2005, 05:45 PM

damm i think that is why my bench went down then. so say i can do 145 like 6 times. would i just lower the weight to like 135 or 140 and do like 3 sets of 10 reps?

Mikey1 · 06-01-2005, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dedicationman

damm i think that is why my bench went down then. so say i can do 145 like 6 times. would i just lower the weight to like 135 or 140 and do like 3 sets of 10 reps?

pick a target rep.....say 8 reps......for an example say you wanna do 3 sets of 8 reps benchpress.....

pick a weight where you can get......8, 8, 6.....or maybe 8, 7, 6......keep using that same weight until you CAN GET 8, 8, 8.....then you increase the weight and try for 8, 8 ,8 again

Diesel46 · 06-01-2005, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikey1

if your driving a car from new york to cali.....would you want to be low on gas when your leaving new york?....or low on gas when approaching cali ??

Yeah but then again say that the stimulus needed for growth is a rock, you can hit that rock 100 times lightly to crack it, or just hit it once very hard.

I see your point, but I find that I respond much better going to complete failure

dedicationman · 06-01-2005, 06:01 PM

man im still confused though. i am doing a modified version of max-ot and i always do between 4-6 reps but in between those numbers i go to failure. On the link if you read it tells you to go to positive failure so basically... failure. here is the link on max-ot. I don't know....

http://www.freedomfly.net/Documents/MAX-OT.pdf

dedicationman · 06-01-2005, 06:02 PM

yea Diesel and I think alike.

tom10 · 06-01-2005, 06:35 PM

I work each muscle twice a week and here is what I've started doing. For chest I would pick bench press and do 3 sets of 10 and whenever I got 10 reps with a certain weight I would move up 5lbs. Actually 10 reps is not set in stone I just work up to 10 reps. I don't use any shocking principles until I am done with those 3 sets. After the 3 sets are over, then I do all my shocking techniques like drop sets, super sets, and so on. My bench has gone up 10lbs as I have entered the 4th week of this type of training. On these exercises I train failure.

dedicationman · 06-01-2005, 06:58 PM

bump.

masterPE · 06-01-2005, 07:06 PM

I think I get the most bang for my workout buck when I go to failure on every set. Although I do include 1 or 2 warm-up sets before focusing on going to failure every set with a muscle group. I think your muscles need that first light warm-up to get them fine tuned, but after that I think you should lift to failure. Doing this, your not going to be as strong towards the final sets of an exercise, but I think that you get maximal stimulation. Why be in the gym and not lift as hard as you can? Just my opinion.

dedicationman · 06-01-2005, 07:07 PM

watever im just gonna keep doing wat i am doing because it is working. One thing i am going to change tho is that i am not going to failure all the time now. I am going to do periodization and when im about to switch my routine which is like every 6-8 weeks i will take a week long break and then lower my weights by 30% and keep doing the same number of reps or maybe a lil more since i only do 4-6 reps now and then every week increase the weight until 6-8 weeks are up and then repeat. I think this experiment might give my muscles the growth they are looking for.

dedicationman · 06-01-2005, 07:09 PM

yea ofcourse i warm up. it just makes me think sometimes when people do a certain ammount of reps when they KNOW they can do more but stop and then just do more sets. I see no purpose in this since i do Max-OT and have gotten stronger and bigger in just 1 month and half of doing it.

dedicationman · 06-01-2005, 07:21 PM

k im goin to eat and then go to sleep. so if i don't respond or post anything it is because of that.

Benzbilly · 06-01-2005, 08:20 PM

I just read the entire MAX-OT program. As a whole it sounds like a VERY good program. It covers all aspects of building muscle. HOWEVER. I am partial to reps in the range of 6-10, but that is just me. I don't get this crap about overload. How is overload different from the pump or a burn in your muscles? I think they sound exactly the same. Lifting to failure and then having a spotter help with a few forced reps is a good thing. You are pushing past your limits and if you eat enough your body will compensate by growing stronger so you should not need a spotter on those last reps. But by then you will have added weight to your lifts. Muscle memory is BAD. If your muscles get into the habit of doing the same movements over and over they will not grow as much. I saw this as contradictory to the workouts though. Every week or so they changed up some....so your muscles do not get into the habit of routine and are forced to work differently. It is very good that warming up properly is stressed. But I would like to add to this stretching before, during and after your lifting. Stretching lets fresh oxygenated blood flow to your muscles. But this is just my opinion....I could be wrong. Try it and see how you do. Good luck

Olifter · 06-01-2005, 09:20 PM

A lot of the old time strongmen never trained to failure. They said when a strongman leaves the gym he feels ready to take on the world, in other words they mainly trained at a moderate level and never exherted themselves too much, this allowed them to train more often which resulted in better gains.

DavetheDog · 06-02-2005, 04:43 AM

Strongmen, O-lifters, powerlifters. None train to failure. You might also want to try a search on this stuff. There have been a few threads where it's come up before.

dedicationman · 06-02-2005, 02:08 PM

well every body trains differently and what works for some might not work for others. Max-OT works for me and i will keep doing it until i see no results. but ofcourse ima keep switching up my routine.

Vino24 · 06-02-2005, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikey1

failure fries your CNS, and is completely NOT nessessary......going to failure on the first set of your workout just destroys the rest of your workout.....

if your driving a car from new york to cali.....would you want to be low on gas when your leaving new york?....or low on gas when approaching cali ??

DUH, it would take WAY more than one take of gas to get from NY to Cali?????????

platinumike · 06-02-2005, 03:33 PM

When i finish my workout, i like to say to myself, that i busted my ass to the max. I cant say that if im not pushing to failure.

Vino24 · 06-02-2005, 03:36 PM

Oh yeah, also I agree with Max OT. Positive failure good.....lifting heavy good. I'm only in week 5 and am overflowing with bulk gains

meanmo · 06-02-2005, 03:51 PM

IMHO you should go to failure, most Pro's do from what I understand, you also need to make sure to have progressive resistence.

dedicationman · 06-06-2005, 06:38 PM

yes. I am currently on my week break now and I feel like im growing and full of energy. I can't wait to get bak in the gym.

TheArrow · 06-06-2005, 07:09 PM

If you go to failure on each set (good)
make sure to rest adeqately between sets (2-3 min) so you can still generate overload on your next set.

Kane Fan · 06-06-2005, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diesel46

Yeah but then again say that the stimulus needed for growth is a rock, you can hit that rock 100 times lightly to crack it, or just hit it once very hard.

I see your point, but I find that I respond much better going to complete failure

oversimplification is often a problem with examples

but the point came accross which is the main thing
basically if failure is used I feel it should be minimally used
and I'd just as soon avoid it altogether

Overload · 06-06-2005, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kane Fan

basically if failure is used I feel it should be minimally used

I agree. I used to try for that extra rep no matter what it took to get it and it fried me sooner than later. Now I will go for that extra rep but if it's doesn't happen as soon as I start the positive then I just put the weight down. No more struggling for that last rep.

Doing that has allowed me to come close to failure, real close, but keep my CNS happy. Which in turns keeps me from overtraining. So I say go for that last rep but only do it if it's as smooth and controlled as the the previous x amount of reps you did. If not, just rack the weight and move on.

Just my opinion

dedicationman · 06-07-2005, 04:18 PM

so basically go to positive failure? like in max-ot? no failure as in giving everything you got until you can't push the weight up anymore?

Ace_2004 · 06-07-2005, 05:46 PM

I goto failure on every set.

I start with a weight i can do 3 sets of 8 with then ill up the reps each week untill im doing 3 sets of 12 with each set taken to failure

Then ill up the weight and drop back down to 8 reps per set and build back up to 3 lots of 12 and carry on doin that all the time.

Overload · 06-07-2005, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dedicationman

so basically go to positive failure? like in max-ot? no failure as in giving everything you got until you can't push the weight up anymore?

Give it all you got but in a smooth controlled manner. If you need to bend, arch, twist, swing, etc. for that last rep then to me it's not a rep and your set should have been over on the previous rep. I usually know when I have another rep in me. And if I try another one and the weight just doesn't start moving smoothly, I just put it down.

From trial and error that's what I found to be better for me. I used to go all out for that last rep and sometimes it could take many seconds to get that weight up. To me that's just signaling your CNS to shut down. IMO, keep a half rep or full rep in the tank. Doesn't mean the set should be easy. If you use slower, controlled reps they will be much harder than using momentum.

Besides, you tear more muscle fibers on the negative reps anyone, so it's better to control the negative and if you can't get that last positive rep, don't worry about it

dedicationman · 06-08-2005, 07:17 PM

k thank you i think i finally got it lol. I'm asking alot of questions around because im starting a new routine next week and before i was doing max-ot but i was going to complete failure not positive failure and i think that completely fried me. at first i was going up in weight and getting bigger but i think all that intensity just messed me up. so i took a week break which im doing right now and ill be bak in the gym next week.

Cheese_Whiz_7 · 06-08-2005, 11:18 PM

If your goal is hypertrophy... here are "hypertrophy specific" training principles in a nutshell backed by science:

1. mechanical load (resistance training, duh!)
2. sufficient frequency (every 36-48 hrs.)
3. progressive load (increase load every workout)
4. strategic deconditioning (take 9-14 days off every 6-8 weeks to re-sensitize muscle tissue to lower stimulus necessary for hypertrophy)

Every workout program uses some of these principles. To the extent you utilize these principles you will succeed, if hypertrophy is your main goal.

Read here for more information:
http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/hst_index.html