Guitar players. My Esteban home shopping channel guitar has arrived.

[jcbrowns]

I wasn't expecting much.

For around 200.00 I got the guitar, hard case, amp, 10 dvd's of lessons and a little bit of extras. I now thew this would be a beginners guitar, but I respect 2 home shopping channels. They sell good stuff. My mom orders jewelry all the time.

They have been selling his guitars for years so they must not be too bad. They hype them as an 800.00 guitar for 200.00 because he worked out a deal etc. Well, the case is pretty nice, the finish on the guitar is nice. This is where the happiness stops. It didn't stay in tune for longer than 15 minutes, (I will stretch the new strings out, and see if the tuners are crap or the strings are the problem) the inlays on the fretboard are stickers and the bridge is some kind of weird cheap thin plastic. Haven't messed around with the amp yet. I'm going to buy new strings, I'm sure the ones that came on it are some cheap quality and mess around with it and see if I can make it decent. I have until Jan 31 to return it so I'm in a win win situation.

I used to play bass in the early 90's, but I always wanted to fool around with a guitar so I thought this would be something to try out first and give it a shot. Not too bad, I'll give it a week or so and see how it goes.

[dbx]

Originally Posted by jcbrowns

I wasn't expecting much.

For around 200.00 I got the guitar, hard case, amp, 10 dvd's of lessons and a little bit of extras. I now thew this would be a beginners guitar, but I respect 2 home shopping channels. They sell good stuff. My mom orders jewelry all the time.

They have been selling his guitars for years so they must not be too bad. They hype them as an 800.00 guitar for 200.00 because he worked out a deal etc. Well, the case is pretty nice, the finish on the guitar is nice. This is where the happiness stops. It didn't stay in tune for longer than 15 minutes, (I will stretch the new strings out, and see if the tuners are crap or the strings are the problem) the inlays on the fretboard are stickers and the bridge is some kind of weird cheap thin plastic. Haven't messed around with the amp yet. I'm going to buy new strings, I'm sure the ones that came on it are some cheap quality and mess around with it and see if I can make it decent. I have until Jan 31 to return it so I'm in a win win situation.

It actually sounds like you didn't do bad for that price (DVD lessons alone might be worth $50 or so..). And yes, at least you're aware that new strings often take time to stretch a few times before staying in tune too. I mean, you might have $hitty tuners, but I'd be willing to bet that it's just new and needs some time to break in. The plastic bridge isn't an issue either. Only thing that sounds suspect to me is the stickers on the fretboard. LOL, they won't be there for long.

Isn't this Esteban guy a Zoro dude or something? This is an acoustic, right? Well, an electric acoustic I guess.

Relax, get to know it and enjoy it.

[jcbrowns]

Yeah, he wears sunglasses all the time, but due to being hit by a drunk driver years ago, and he's lost most of his vision in one eye. It's an acoustic/electric, it's autographed and his Christmas CD came with it also. I knew I could do better with a little bit more money. but wanted to give this a shot. Playing bass I fiddled around with guitars, I know a few chords,can play basic songs on guitar.

If anything, I can learn from the dvd's for awhile and return it if the guitar doesn't pan out. The return policy is what hooked me.

[Stevelegh]

$200 is nothing.

I used to sell guitars many years ago. I used to hate it when kids came in with their parents and blew a stack of cash on the best stuff. You just knew it wasn't going to be appreciated.

Among others, I have a Suzuki (yes even they made guitars at one time) classical. It has a painted fretboard and is 35 years old. My sister got it for her 6th birthday. I love it despite it being a 'cheap' guitar. The tuners are shot and the action is like a cheesecutter.

If you learn on it, you've got a great deal. That's the best trade off with instruments. You gain a skill that will never leave you.

And hopefully, you get to pass that skill on.

[Dain_Bramage]

You took a big chance. There's no way I would buy a guitar I never held in my hands and tried out first.

I know beginners don't always have the money but you're better off spending more and getting a nice guitar than buying cheap one for a couple of reasons.

Cheap guitars have bad action, don't stay in tune or have bad intonation, this all has a direct effect on your enjoyment of playing. If it sounds bad and is hard to play it's not fun.

If you don't stick with it you can sell a nice guitar and probably get close to what you paid for it or a couple of hundred less. Cheap guitars have bad resale value and you may be out 200 bucks anyway because you can't sell it.

Any way sorry for the little rant. I hope you do enjoy it.


Edit: I'm not saying there are not some hidden gems out there. I have a Giannini that my grandfather gave me when I was 16. I still have it and love it. They are pretty much worthless but the thing plays nice and sounds nice. Anyone who plays it is very impressed. I also have a cheap Yamaha electric that I love.

[jcbrowns]

I started out on a Cort bass and a homemade amp when I was about 15, then seeing how I got into it more and more I bought an Ibanez bass (not the soundgear model, can't remember now) and Peavey amp. (Hated that amp, always overheated).

I have no interest playing on a stage anymore, just want to fool around in the spare room playing guitar. Have some things to learn about guitar, it should be fun. Haven't really checked everything out about this guitar, will seriously look into it tomorrow as far as setting up the action, really looking into the make of it etc. But my first impression is it doesn't seem too bad. We'll see.

.

[jcbrowns]

Originally Posted by Stevelegh

$200 is nothing.

I used to sell guitars many years ago. I used to hate it when kids came in with their parents and blew a stack of cash on the best stuff. You just knew it wasn't going to be appreciated.

Among others, I have a Suzuki (yes even they made guitars at one time) classical. It has a painted fretboard and is 35 years old. My sister got it for her 6th birthday. I love it despite it being a 'cheap' guitar. The tuners are shot and the action is like a cheesecutter.

If you learn on it, you've got a great deal. That's the best trade off with instruments. You gain a skill that will never leave you.

And hopefully, you get to pass that skill on.

Never knew Suzuki made a guitar.
Never seen one or even heard about it. Wow!

[dbx]

Originally Posted by jcbrowns

I......will seriously look into it tomorrow as far as setting up the action, really looking into the make of it etc.

There's usually not much you can do with an acoustic guitar to change the action. The bridge is usually fixed/non-adjustable. You can file down the nut or even the bridge, but then you flirt with throwing off intonation too. Short of maybe using lighter strings, you're pretty much stuck with what you have. I'd still bet money that this thing is better than the beginners I took lessons with 41yrs ago . Steve's using "cheese-cutter" made me LOL IRL, because that's exactly what I had back then . Even then, it can be played and it can sound fine. It'll damn sure build up some fine finger strength .

[Bando]

Funny, I just spent an hour putting new strings on my Takamine. Played and re-tuned it for 10 minutes then set it down for awhile, just picked it up and it's still nearly perfectly tuned.

$125.00 on Craigslist 5 years ago.

[jcbrowns]

The action is fine 'til you get to the 12th fret, then I guesstimate it's about 1/8 inch and at it's worst point gets to be about 3/16 at it's worst way down the neck. Anything I can do about this?

Not that I'm planning on playing down there anytime soon.

[crupiea]

Esteban is much more then just a salesman. He is very accomplished.

Check out this stuff about Segovia on his website.

http://www.estebanmusic.com/about/

[hochspeyer]

My first guitar came from Sears. It was red, had an incredibly hard, high action, and a bridge that could be moved all the way up to the fretboard. My next was a Fender acoustic student model, and it had a wonderful action and a beautiful sound- it was $125.00, and I thought that was pretty expensive.

[Minotaur]

Originally Posted by dbx

There's usually not much you can do with an acoustic guitar to change the action. The bridge is usually fixed/non-adjustable. You can file down the nut or even the bridge, but then you flirt with throwing off intonation too. Short of maybe using lighter strings, you're pretty much stuck with what you have.

You can get horrible fret buzz. I asked the guy who runs the local "guitar hospital" if I should have him lower the action on my Seagull, since E-shape barre chords above the 5th fret are pretty hard for me to make ring. He played it and said he doesn't recommend it. He said the guitar is perfectly fine. Without insulting me and sort of with a wink he implied what I kind of knew... my technique and skill.

Some people want to push the envelope and make a major change like that but he doesn't recommend it. So, no argument from me. I've got 12s on it (Seagull standard issue, which to me are like undersea telephone cables). He said he will put 11s when he does the t.l.c. (about $35). Lowering the action would entail sanding down the bridge and saddle. There's no going back. I don't have another $400-$500 for a new guitar.

[Minotaur]

Originally Posted by Bando

Funny, I just spent an hour putting new strings on my Takamine. Played and re-tuned it for 10 minutes then set it down for awhile, just picked it up and it's still nearly perfectly tuned.

$125.00 on Craigslist 5 years ago.

I won't do the strings myself anymore. I don't have the patience. I re-strung and tuned my 12 string, and by the time I was done I wanted to stick pins in my eyes. For $35 I'll pay the guitar doctor.

Originally Posted by jcbrowns

The action is fine 'til you get to the 12th fret, then I guesstimate it's about 1/8 inch and at it's worst point gets to be about 3/16 at it's worst way down the neck. Anything I can do about this?

Not that I'm planning on playing down there anytime soon.

Lighter strings. My guitar guy won't go to 10s on my Seagull, but he'll go to 11s. 11s are a nice compromise, according to him, between the stiffness of 12s and the thin sound of 10s.

At the low E string, 12th fret, the measurement should be 5/64"; the high E should be 7/64" (unless I have that backwards ).

The 12th fret is the octave. An E-shape barre chord @ the 12th fret is an Emaj. That would barre the 12th fret, middle finger @ the 13th and ring and pinky @ the 14th. Better ways to play Emaj, but well, it's there.



Sitting on the Dock of the Bay, played the original way, uses barre chords from Gmaj @ the 3rd fret to Cmaj @ the 8th fret.



Just sayin'.

[dbx]

Originally Posted by Minotaur

You can get horrible fret buzz. I asked the guy who runs the local "guitar hospital" if I should have him lower the action on my Seagull, since E-shape barre chords above the 5th fret are pretty hard for me to make ring. He played it and said he doesn't recommend it. He said the guitar is perfectly fine. Without insulting me and sort of with a wink he implied what I kind of knew... my technique and skill.

Some people want to push the envelope and make a major change like that but he doesn't recommend it. So, no argument from me. I've got 12s on it (Seagull standard issue, which to me are like undersea telephone cables). He said he will put 11s when he does the t.l.c. (about $35). Lowering the action would entail sanding down the bridge and saddle. There's no going back. I don't have another $400-$500 for a new guitar.

Yes, slotting the nut further (or removing it and sanding the bottom)...and/or fooling with the saddle/bridge is not recommended for anyone less than being very knowledgeable about guitars. I think some of the newer guitars (last decade or more) have shaved a bit too close in hopes to sell the best action available. Some of the cheaper Gibson electrics are know to have bad fret buzz on the 5th & 6th, around the 3rd-5th fret area.

And I'll say again what I've said before; short of being a total piece of crap (which I'm certain JC's guitar is not...in the scheme of things), it's the player who makes or break the sound. Again, I remember at age 10, asking my guitar teacher if I could play his LP because my beginner's acoustic sounded so bad. He gladly switched...and I suddenly heard my cheap-ass beginner's guitar turn into a fine instrument

[dbx]

Originally Posted by Minotaur

That's the first and most common barre chord I learned and know of. Just sayin'....

[Minotaur]

Originally Posted by dbx

That's the first and most common barre chord I learned and know of. Just sayin'....

And admittedly it IS a bitch!

Btw, I actually felt pretty good finding out that it's my ****ty technique and skill, and not the guitar. Well, I am less than 2 years into this, and just started noodling with barre chords that high up on the neck. My Jackson gives me no such fits. But an electric is not an acoustic.

[dbx]

Originally Posted by Minotaur

And admittedly it IS a bitch!

You know, to be honest...I don't recall how hard it seemed to learn it, but I'm sure I struggled. This chord is probably the most used chord in classic R&R, IMO. It's funny, but I find it difficult to adapt to the newer, easier power chords. To me, it's easier to use a full barre! Simply repetition, no doubt.

Originally Posted by Minotaur

Btw, I actually felt pretty good finding out that it's my ****ty technique and skill, and not the guitar. Well, I am less than 2 years into this, and just started noodling with barre chords that high up on the neck. My Jackson gives me no such fits. But an electric is not an acoustic.

The term "noodling" is new to me (since say, 7yrs or so ago), but it doesn't seem to go along with barre chords .

*Disclaimer: Despite knowing terms and a few chords, I am a hack at playing . I've just always loved and appreciated guitar work.

[Minotaur]

Originally Posted by dbx

You know, to be honest...I don't recall how hard it seemed to learn it, but I'm sure I struggled. This chord is probably the most used chord in classic R&R, IMO. It's funny, but I find it difficult to adapt to the newer, easier power chords. To me, it's easier to use a full barre! Simply repetition, no doubt.

I remember when you told me not to waste my time and money on a teacher who was going to teach me power chords. Nah, I learned them on my own. Truth be told, I also like the sound of a full barre and open chord. Power chords, when played clean, give a darker sound. And that's cool in some situations. I do use them, but clean, and believe it or not, on the acoustic (root, 5th and octave, though).

The term "noodling" is new to me (since say, 7yrs or so ago), but it doesn't seem to go along with barre chords .

*Disclaimer: Despite knowing terms and a few chords, I am a hack at playing . I've just always loved and appreciated guitar work.

"Noodling" is a dialectal version of "fidoodling".

I'm getting better only in fits and starts. I admit that my understanding of music and some basic theory has improved to the point that I can change things around and do different arrangements. It's my execution that still sucks. My open chord changes are pretty clean and sure, it's just when I have a barre chord in there that it ****s me up.

[Stevelegh]

Originally Posted by Minotaur

Sitting on the Dock of the Bay, played the original way, uses barre chords from Gmaj @ the 3rd fret to Cmaj @ the 8th fret.

Otis tuned to open E and barred with his index finger.

Just sayin..........

[Dave76]

I guess I have more money than I have sense. I really don't have much money so that'll tell you how much sense I have.

About 4 or 5 years ago, I pulled my old Yamaha out of the closet and decided to dust it off. I needed some picks and some new strings so I headed off to the music store.

I came home with a Taylor 510CE. I made the mistake of picking it up and strumming an E barre chord up the neck. It was at that point that I figured out why I had always had trouble with barre chords before.

I have since purchased a T5 and Roland AC60 amp. I can't do justice to either guitar but I pass away many hours with them.

[Uber_Dad]

Originally Posted by Dave76

I guess I have more money than I have sense. I really don't have much money so that'll tell you how much sense I have.

About 4 or 5 years ago, I pulled my old Yamaha out of the closet and decided to dust it off. I needed some picks and some new strings so I headed off to the music store.

I came home with a Taylor 510CE. I made the mistake of picking it up and strumming an E barre chord up the neck. It was at that point that I figured out why I had always had trouble with barre chords before.

I have since purchased a T5 and Roland AC60 amp. I can't do justice to either guitar but I pass away many hours with them.

lmao...done much the same!!

I'm with the buy the best equipment you feel you can afford, and oh yeah, get a guitar teacher...you'll progress faster.

I was self taught for years, then began gigging around Chicago, then suddenly realised I was the only one that was self taught :-0

Get the guitar teacher better than DVD's

[Minotaur]

Originally Posted by Stevelegh

Otis tuned to open E and barred with his index finger.

Just sayin..........

Open E, you say? Hmm...

Actually I think it was Steve Cropper who played, but that's beside the point. All I knew was that it was done with barre chords, not open. I might try re-tuning. I'd like to try Drop D also. But that's beside the point too.

Now, I don't know if this is a British English term, but what are "chips"? No not the "fish and ..." kind. Justin Sandercoe (I don't know if he's English or Australian) teaches a version of SotDotB using open chords and commented that Steve Cropper used "chips".

[Bando]

Originally Posted by Minotaur

I won't do the strings myself anymore. I don't have the patience. I re-strung and tuned my 12 string, and by the time I was done I wanted to stick pins in my eyes. For $35 I'll pay the guitar doctor.

I wouldn't want (or even know how to) tune a 12 string, much less, string one

[Minotaur]

Originally Posted by Bando

I wouldn't want (or even know how to) tune a 12 string, much less, string one

Without an electronic tuner, I don't know who has the patience to do it. The 2 strings in each of the 4 lower courses, E, A, D, G are tuned an octave apart, the 2 strings in the 2 upper courses (B and high E) are tuned the same.

[Stevelegh]

Originally Posted by Minotaur

Open E, you say? Hmm...

Actually I think it was Steve Cropper who played, but that's beside the point. All I knew was that it was done with barre chords, not open. I might try re-tuning. I'd like to try Drop D also. But that's beside the point too.

Now, I don't know if this is a British English term, but what are "chips"? No not the "fish and ..." kind. Justin Sandercoe (I don't know if he's English or Australian) teaches a version of SotDotB using open chords and commented that Steve Cropper used "chips".

You're right. Croppper played, but Otis would used the guitar to compose. Open tunings are a lot of fun. Duane Allman tuned to open and played slide in whatever key the band was in. Statesboro Blues was in D, Aretha's The Weight was in either Ab or Bb (can't remember) All done in Open E.

If you've got an iPhone or iPod touch, get the Guitar Toolkit app by Agile. It's the best guitar thing I've ever bought. You can tune every kind of guitar (bass, 12, 6, Open) plus it will give you every chord available in that tuning. You can also 'strum' the strings individually to hear each note. You've also got scales and a metronome.

I digress.....

'Chips'. Not an English term. I'd guess it's referring to picking. I don't know if we've got any Aussie guitar players here?

Cheers

Steve

[jcbrowns]

OK, I've fiddled around with the guitar some more.
It's not bad, still goes out of tune but not as quickly. The high E goes out pretty fast though. I looked through a couple of the dvd lessons. These are junk in my opinion. Now remember, I have experience playing but it was bass. Anyways, when he shows you how to tune it, he hits his strings open one at a time and you're supposed to tune to him. But a noobie isn't going to know how to properly tune. He doesn't show you how to fret the E on the fifth fret and hit the A open and so on.

He shows you a couple chords and says to stop the dvd and not proceed until you can switch from one chord to the next without effort. Good point, but the next part of the dvd he takes these two chords you've learned and shows you how to play an intro to a song that uses them. Then he shows you more chords and shows you another song that uses those chords and this is pretty much what he does with all of the dvd's.

I haven't went through all of the dvd's but I think he should show you the basics. Teaching you scales, what note is what when you fret the string. Open E, first fret F, 3rd fret G and so on. I guess he wants to have the noob be able to play a little something right off the bat, I guess that would get them excited instead of dealing with scales and such. That would get boring to some. I hope he shows these things in the later dvd's. He should also show a little bit easier songs. I think it's too much for a beginner to play. They would get frustrated pretty quick.