>>>>OTC PCT after 4 weeks of Superdrol. THE BLOODWORKS.<<<<

[THEHUGE]

Originally Posted by Ironman88

Yea, nice smoke screen up there. Those of us that venture out past our computer desks sometimes have other obligations to attend to.

So I do. Thanks for wasting my time.

Originally Posted by Ironman88

Those studies validate my argument through their omissions. They, like most biased commissioned studies, lack specifics such as dosages and purposes, and give the reader plenty of avenues to be mislead.

O'rly? Peer reviewed studies with neat aims and exceptionally detailed materials and methods? You only need to be able at reading.

Originally Posted by Ironman88

I'm confused as to what you're asking me to do specifically. .

I'm asking you to post the studies showing the estradiol-increasing effect of Indole-3-carbinol . You said that you can provide several studies . Let's see 'em.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s376ZbPG-OM

[FromPainToGlory]

TheHuge, whenever u find some free time away from the arguing could you address my question? lol would be greatly appreciated! thankss

Originally Posted by FromPainToGlory

This otc pct work for tren (19-nor) as well? (lets say 6 weeks at 90)

just asking b/c i know clomid is recommended over nolva as pct for tren b/c of the prolactin(?) based gyno, so I was wondering if this has any bearing on choosing an OTC PCT

[THEHUGE]

Originally Posted by FromPainToGlory

TheHuge, whenever u find some free time away from the arguing could you address my question? lol would be greatly appreciated! thankss

All I can tell you is that clomiphene>tamoxifen to restart the HPTA. Always.
There're several(and very different) options to build an otc pct: some work, some don't. Please do your homowork carefully before making any move.

[THEHUGE]

Originally Posted by Ironman88

I can provide several studies showing Indole-3-Carbinol indicating a slight increase in estrogen.

Still waiting.

[ryanr623]

Originally Posted by THEHUGE

Still waiting.

I'm guessing your gonna be waiting for a while.

On a side note, my bioforge came in today, with one bottle allocated to be used as part of my PCT.

I always start bioforge in my pct right away, like the energy/libido bump it causes after a couple days. I realize most say wait two weeks to extend PCT, but i like to get my test levels back up quickly, and this time i was on a fairly mild cycle.

I find it odd that i am looking forward to bioforge after coming off a class 1 and class II DS cycle. Guess thats saying something in & of itself. I continue to make gains, and libido/energy/mood is way better than on cycle. I guess what im saying is, bioforge makes PCT fun, and PCT is usually dreaded by most.

[THEHUGE]

Originally Posted by ryanr623

I'm guessing your gonna be waiting for a while.

Say forever

Originally Posted by ryanr623

On a side note, my bioforge came in today, with one bottle allocated to be used as part of my PCT.

I always start bioforge in my pct right away, like the energy/libido bump it causes after a couple days. I realize most say wait two weeks to extend PCT, but i like to get my test levels back up quickly

Makes perfectly sense.

Originally Posted by ryanr623

I find it odd that i am looking forward to bioforge after coming off a class 1 and class II DS cycle. Guess thats saying something in & of itself. I continue to make gains, and libido/energy/mood is way better than on cycle. I guess what im saying is, bioforge makes PCT fun, and PCT is usually dreaded by most.

Excellent, glad to hear that!!!

[Ironman88]

I was going to let you off easy, but I will give you the response you so desperately long for. I understand. You need to put food on the table, but consciously putting the health of others in danger to line your pockets is f'ed up. If not, your blind ambition is poisoning these sheep. Sure bioforge is a decent product. No doubt one of the top 3 of its kind on the market, but recommending it as a sole pct, with other proven options out there, is just simply retarded. Listen up kiddies because some of us are capable of abstract thought. Simplicity. You are the proprietor of this product, leading to the most biased of views out there. These studies you so poorly reference involve indole-3-carbinol administration, but not as a constituent of PCT. Right now I'm on campus, and my laptop containing the studies is back at my apartment, but if you're still interested in filing for chapter 11 I'll be glad to provide them later tonite. Don't have the time to waste searching online here right now, but it'll take 5 mins once I get to my laptop.

[ryanr623]

Originally Posted by Ironman88

I was going to let you off easy, but I will give you the response you so desperately long for. I understand. You need to put food on the table, but consciously putting the health of others in danger to line your pockets is f'ed up. If not, your blind ambition is poisoning these sheep. Sure bioforge is a decent product. No doubt one of the top 3 of its kind on the market, but recommending it as a sole pct, with other proven options out there, is just simply retarded. Listen up kiddies because some of us are capable of abstract thought. Simplicity. You are the proprietor of this product, leading to the most biased of views out there. These studies you so poorly reference involve indole-3-carbinol administration, but not as a constituent of PCT. Right now I'm on campus, and my laptop containing the studies is back at my apartment, but if you're still interested in filing for chapter 11 I'll be glad to provide them later tonite. Don't have the time to waste searching online here right now, but it'll take 5 mins once I get to my laptop.

I dont believe he ever reccomended it as PCT for any PH/DS.... his intention was to show that it works, and you yourself said that, so why are you arguing?

And im not familiar with I3C, but i do see it included in a lot of OTC PCT all in one products.

[ThrashMetal]

this thread gives the wrong impression to everyone using PHs. Honestly, an OTC PCT should never be recommended and never will be recommended by someone who actually knows what they're talking about. It's a good thing that OTC PCT worked out for you, but it is possible to have an eventual rebound effect so be cautious.

[olazabal]

If I were you, I'd be recommending a serm + bioforge. Seems like it's starting to get popular. Too bad you think all research chems are bunk eh?

[Ironman88]

I can see his intent. Throwing around some words to convince noobs and sheep that OTC PCT is a logical option. This thread is wreaking with bad information, and I agree it gives off a terrible impression. I3C is actually not even close to the best OTC "AI" ever produced. Androst-4-ene-3,6,17-trione, 6oxo, is considered to be...Without further ado ladies and gentlemen:

Abstract

The purpose of this study was to determine the effects of 6-OXO, a purported nutritional aromatase inhibitor, in a dose dependent manner on body composition, serum hormone levels, and clinical safety markers in resistance trained males. Sixteen males were supplemented with either 300 mg or 600 mg of 6-OXO in a double-blind manner for eight weeks. Blood and urine samples were obtained at weeks 0, 1, 3, 8, and 11 (after a 3-week washout period). Blood samples were analyzed for total testosterone (TT), free testosterone (FT), dihydrotestosterone (DHT), estradiol, estriol, estrone, SHBG, leutinizing hormone (LH), follicle stimulating hormone (FSH), growth hormone (GH), cortisol, FT/estradiol (T/E). Blood and urine were also analyzed for clinical chemistry markers. Data were analyzed with two-way MANOVA. For all of the serum hormones, there were no significant differences between groups (p > 0.05). Compared to baseline, free testosterone underwent overall increases of 90% for 300 mg 6-OXO and 84% for 600 mg, respectively (p < 0.05). DHT underwent significant overall increases (p < 0.05) of 192% and 265% with 300 mg and 600 mg, respectively. T/E increased 53% and 67% for 300 mg and 600 mg 6-OXO, respectively. For estrone, 300 mg produced an overall increase of 22%, whereas 600 mg caused a 52% increase (p < 0.05). Body composition did not change with supplementation (p > 0.05) and clinical safety markers were not adversely affected with ingestion of either supplement dose (p > 0.05). While neither of the 6-OXO dosages appears to have any negative effects on clinical chemistry markers, supplementation at a daily dosage of 300 mg and 600 mg for eight weeks did not completely inhibit aromatase activity, yet increased FT, DHT, and T/E.

Table 6
Serum Hormone Levels
There was a significant main effect for Test for FT (p = 0.017), DHT (p = 0.006), T/E (p = 0.025), and estrone (p = 0.007), along with a trend for significance for TT (p = 0.062, effect size = 0.068). Compared to baseline, post-hoc tests showed FT levels to be higher at week 1 (p = 0.016) and week 3 (p = 0.019), and week 8 (p = 0.037). DHT levels were significantly higher at week 1 (p = 0.026), week 3 (p = 0.004), and week 8 (p = 0.014). T/E levels were significantly higher at week 1 (p = 0.034), week 3 (p = 0.018), and week 8 (p = 0.37). Estrone was significantly higher at week 1 (p = 0.003) and week 3 (p = 0.007), with a trend towards also being higher at week 8 (p = 0.057, effect size = 0.056).

Link to references and complete article: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2100070/

Further enlightenment when I get to my laptop.

[CaptMcClain]

um yea, no one said to use Bioforge as the main component of PCT

infact THEHUGE repeatedly recommends it being stacked with an AI

so..I'm not exactly sure what you're arguing except for some sort of implied secret agenda thats fairly far fetched and a wee bit paranoid

[ryanr623]

Originally Posted by Ironman88

I can see his intent. Throwing around some words to convince noobs and sheep that OTC PCT is a logical option. This thread is wreaking with bad information, and I agree it gives off a terrible impression. I3C is actually not even close to the best OTC "AI" ever produced. Androst-4-ene-3,6,17-trione, 6oxo, is considered to be...Without further ado ladies and gentlemen:

Abstract

The purpose of this study was to determine the effects of 6-OXO, a purported nutritional aromatase inhibitor, in a dose dependent manner on body composition, serum hormone levels, and clinical safety markers in resistance trained males. Sixteen males were supplemented with either 300 mg or 600 mg of 6-OXO in a double-blind manner for eight weeks. Blood and urine samples were obtained at weeks 0, 1, 3, 8, and 11 (after a 3-week washout period). Blood samples were analyzed for total testosterone (TT), free testosterone (FT), dihydrotestosterone (DHT), estradiol, estriol, estrone, SHBG, leutinizing hormone (LH), follicle stimulating hormone (FSH), growth hormone (GH), cortisol, FT/estradiol (T/E). Blood and urine were also analyzed for clinical chemistry markers. Data were analyzed with two-way MANOVA. For all of the serum hormones, there were no significant differences between groups (p > 0.05). Compared to baseline, free testosterone underwent overall increases of 90% for 300 mg 6-OXO and 84% for 600 mg, respectively (p < 0.05). DHT underwent significant overall increases (p < 0.05) of 192% and 265% with 300 mg and 600 mg, respectively. T/E increased 53% and 67% for 300 mg and 600 mg 6-OXO, respectively. For estrone, 300 mg produced an overall increase of 22%, whereas 600 mg caused a 52% increase (p < 0.05). Body composition did not change with supplementation (p > 0.05) and clinical safety markers were not adversely affected with ingestion of either supplement dose (p > 0.05). While neither of the 6-OXO dosages appears to have any negative effects on clinical chemistry markers, supplementation at a daily dosage of 300 mg and 600 mg for eight weeks did not completely inhibit aromatase activity, yet increased FT, DHT, and T/E.

Table 6
Serum Hormone Levels
There was a significant main effect for Test for FT (p = 0.017), DHT (p = 0.006), T/E (p = 0.025), and estrone (p = 0.007), along with a trend for significance for TT (p = 0.062, effect size = 0.068). Compared to baseline, post-hoc tests showed FT levels to be higher at week 1 (p = 0.016) and week 3 (p = 0.019), and week 8 (p = 0.037). DHT levels were significantly higher at week 1 (p = 0.026), week 3 (p = 0.004), and week 8 (p = 0.014). T/E levels were significantly higher at week 1 (p = 0.034), week 3 (p = 0.018), and week 8 (p = 0.37). Estrone was significantly higher at week 1 (p = 0.003) and week 3 (p = 0.007), with a trend towards also being higher at week 8 (p = 0.057, effect size = 0.056).

Link to references and complete article: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2100070/

Further enlightenment when I get to my laptop.

I would agree htat I3C isnt the best, and 6oxo is the best. I believe he is just trying to show people that his product works. Nothing wrong there. He never reccomends it for PCT.

This study shows that 6oxo works and it does.... so 6oxo + bioforge =

Orrrrrr nolva + bioforge =

[ThrashMetal]

I wouldn't even recommend an AI. I'd recommend a SERM. For all PH cycles or anything else that involves fluctuating levels of the body's natural estrogen and testosterone levels.

[tdog69]

Originally Posted by Ironman88

I was going to let you off easy, but I will give you the response you so desperately long for. I understand. You need to put food on the table, but consciously putting the health of others in danger to line your pockets is f'ed up. If not, your blind ambition is poisoning these sheep. Sure bioforge is a decent product. No doubt one of the top 3 of its kind on the market, but recommending it as a sole pct, with other proven options out there, is just simply retarded. Listen up kiddies because some of us are capable of abstract thought. Simplicity. You are the proprietor of this product, leading to the most biased of views out there. These studies you so poorly reference involve indole-3-carbinol administration, but not as a constituent of PCT. Right now I'm on campus, and my laptop containing the studies is back at my apartment, but if you're still interested in filing for chapter 11 I'll be glad to provide them later tonite. Don't have the time to waste searching online here right now, but it'll take 5 mins once I get to my laptop.

What is your point, you have nothing showing that it does not work, but yet someone gets on here and says it worked for me look at my blood work, but automatically the laymen will jump on the band wagon and say o it must be fake cause it is not a SERM and the owner is promoting it.

Why don't you run the same cycle, use the same thing for PCT and get blood work done, o wait you have no desire to do that, you just want to run your mouth and draw attention to yourself.

I have never ran a SERM for any OTC Anabolic and never would, trust me I have yet to see a reason from any of my blood results to run any Pharm grade SERM for recovery <these are my blood results not yours, so I do not recommend this unless you have your own>


I have not purchased the OTC PCT items for my cut with SD in Jan of next year and just might run the exact same thing with blood work just to prove a point.

As far as research chemicals go, why do you think they state not for human consumption on them. They do not even list the suspension agent on most of them; QA does not exist and believe me they do not follow the same guidelines for sterile work environments like in a pharmaceutical company.

[Ironman88]

Originally Posted by ThrashMetal

I wouldn't even recommend an AI. I'd recommend a SERM. For all PH cycles or anything else that involves fluctuating levels of the body's natural estrogen and testosterone levels.

Strong this. If you had to pick one SERMs are way better than AI.

Originally Posted by CaptMcClain

um yea, no one said to use Bioforge as the main component of PCT

infact THEHUGE repeatedly recommends it being stacked with an AI

so..I'm not exactly sure what you're arguing except for some sort of implied secret agenda thats fairly far fetched and a wee bit paranoid

Exactly, You don't understand. I'm trying to save as many endocrine systems as I can. Some of the stuff people have been saying in this thread leaves me completely dumbfounded in shock...Lol so is it an AI or isn't it? I loved his proposed inverse AI dosing scheme to that poster a few pages back. Ramping up an "AI" then abruptly discontinuing is a great way to cause this "rebound gyno", not prevent it. You've been given a brain. Use it. Taking ph/ds/aas is dangerous. You should completely mitigate risks, not open yourself up to new ones. Serm or Real AI is the way to do it.

[ThrashMetal]

Never recommend a SERM? No offense, but that definitely isn't very smart. What if this was your life you were dealing with and you had 2 options. option 1 creates a half decent chance of survival and option 2 creates a more than probable chance of survival. which would you choose? Same goes with option 1: OTC or AI PCT and option 2: SERM. It's everyone's right to make they're own choice though. Do what you want just don't recommend anything but the best possible option.

[CaptMcClain]

Originally Posted by Ironman88

Strong this. If you had to pick one SERMs are way better than AI.



Exactly, You don't understand. I'm trying to save as many endocrine systems as I can. Some of the stuff people have been saying in this thread leaves me completely dumbfounded in shock...Lol so is it an AI or isn't it? I loved his proposed inverse AI dosing scheme to that poster a few pages back. Ramping up an "AI" then abruptly discontinuing is a great way to cause this "rebound gyno", not prevent it. You've been given a brain. Use it. Taking ph/ds/aas is dangerous. You should completely mitigate risks, not open yourself up to new ones. Serm or Real AI is the way to do it.

speaking of not understanding..

I always use a serm lol

that being said however if I didnt have access to one I would definately use a product like Bioforge or Primal Male stacked with a AI and/or ATD

truth is alot of people would recover from these non aromatizing ds's without a thing for pct but 1) its better safe than sorry 2) you'll recover faster to baseline with rather than without 3) gyno probably sucks *see #1

I believe the most complete PCT would be..
SERM 4 weeks tapering down
AI 4 weeks after that tapering down
Natty test booster 2 weeks into AI for 4 weeks no need to taper

but alot would call that extreme overkill so to each his own

[tdog69]

Originally Posted by ThrashMetal

Never recommend a SERM? No offense, but that definitely isn't very smart. What if this was your life you were dealing with and you had 2 options. option 1 creates a half decent chance of survival and option 2 creates a more than probable chance of survival. which would you choose? Same goes with option 1: OTC or AI PCT and option 2: SERM. It's everyone's right to make they're own choice though. Do what you want just don't recommend anything but the best possible option.

Both option 1 and option 2 have there pros and cons, which have to be considered when making a choice, unfortunetly a lot of folks on here blindly follow the advice that option 2 is the best choice for everything.

[Ironman88]

Originally Posted by tdog69

I have never ran a SERM for any OTC Anabolic and never would, trust me I have yet to see a reason from any of my blood results to run any Pharm grade SERM for recovery <these are my blood results not yours, so I do not recommend this unless you have your own>

I have not purchased the OTC PCT items for my cut with SD in Jan of next year and just might run the exact same thing with blood work just to prove a point.

As far as research chemicals go, why do you think they state not for human consumption on them. They do not even list the suspension agent on most of them; QA does not exist and believe me they do not follow the same guidelines for sterile work environments like in a pharmaceutical company.

Wow, just wow. Where to begin. What you've just written might be the most insanely idiotic thing I have ever read. You're going to play russian roulette with your endocrine system to prove a point on an internet message board? Sure some people do recover with NO PCT, but the simple fact is most don't. You're also putting your body through unneeded risks. Nolva also has other beneficial effects, such as blood lipid profiles, and has been medically proven to cause dramatic increases in testosterone. As for blood tests I have my own, and can provide countless others. The effectiveness of SERMs is not in question like OTC pct.

Research Chemicals state not for human consumption because they have to. It's called a loophole. By suspension agent, I believe you meant solvent. Which will predominately be ethanol, or glycerin, a sugar alcohol, which can be used as a substitute. That has no bearing on what is suspended. Actually research chemicals are normally produced in extremely sterile environments, well because they're research chemicals. Imagine the scrutiny they are put through, and how many experiments they'd mess up had they not been accurate. In any case the solvent won't allow for any type of bacterial development. They're so cheap to make it would be stupid for a lab to make bunk stuff.

[olazabal]

Originally Posted by CaptMcClain

speaking of not understanding..

I always use a serm lol

whatttt? but aren't they all just bottled urine? /end sarcasm

[THEHUGE]

Originally Posted by Ironman88

I can see his intent. Throwing around some words to convince noobs and sheep that OTC PCT is a logical option. This thread is wreaking with bad information, and I agree it gives off a terrible impression. I3C is actually not even close to the best OTC "AI" ever produced. Androst-4-ene-3,6,17-trione, 6oxo, is considered to be...Without further ado ladies and gentlemen:

Abstract

The purpose of this study was to determine the effects of 6-OXO, a purported nutritional aromatase inhibitor, in a dose dependent manner on body composition, serum hormone levels, and clinical safety markers in resistance trained males. Sixteen males were supplemented with either 300 mg or 600 mg of 6-OXO in a double-blind manner for eight weeks. Blood and urine samples were obtained at weeks 0, 1, 3, 8, and 11 (after a 3-week washout period). Blood samples were analyzed for total testosterone (TT), free testosterone (FT), dihydrotestosterone (DHT), estradiol, estriol, estrone, SHBG, leutinizing hormone (LH), follicle stimulating hormone (FSH), growth hormone (GH), cortisol, FT/estradiol (T/E). Blood and urine were also analyzed for clinical chemistry markers. Data were analyzed with two-way MANOVA. For all of the serum hormones, there were no significant differences between groups (p > 0.05). Compared to baseline, free testosterone underwent overall increases of 90% for 300 mg 6-OXO and 84% for 600 mg, respectively (p < 0.05). DHT underwent significant overall increases (p < 0.05) of 192% and 265% with 300 mg and 600 mg, respectively. T/E increased 53% and 67% for 300 mg and 600 mg 6-OXO, respectively. For estrone, 300 mg produced an overall increase of 22%, whereas 600 mg caused a 52% increase (p < 0.05). Body composition did not change with supplementation (p > 0.05) and clinical safety markers were not adversely affected with ingestion of either supplement dose (p > 0.05). While neither of the 6-OXO dosages appears to have any negative effects on clinical chemistry markers, supplementation at a daily dosage of 300 mg and 600 mg for eight weeks did not completely inhibit aromatase activity, yet increased FT, DHT, and T/E.

Table 6
Serum Hormone Levels
There was a significant main effect for Test for FT (p = 0.017), DHT (p = 0.006), T/E (p = 0.025), and estrone (p = 0.007), along with a trend for significance for TT (p = 0.062, effect size = 0.068). Compared to baseline, post-hoc tests showed FT levels to be higher at week 1 (p = 0.016) and week 3 (p = 0.019), and week 8 (p = 0.037). DHT levels were significantly higher at week 1 (p = 0.026), week 3 (p = 0.004), and week 8 (p = 0.014). T/E levels were significantly higher at week 1 (p = 0.034), week 3 (p = 0.018), and week 8 (p = 0.37). Estrone was significantly higher at week 1 (p = 0.003) and week 3 (p = 0.007), with a trend towards also being higher at week 8 (p = 0.057, effect size = 0.056).

Link to references and complete article: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2100070/

Further enlightenment when I get to my laptop.

Are you drunk? what the FUK has this to do with Indole-3-carbinol??

Originally Posted by CaptMcClain

so..I'm not exactly sure what you're arguing except for some sort of implied secret agenda thats fairly far fetched

Somebody got it finally.
Please everybody notice how he describes accurately "the extremely sterile environments and quality controls" of those research chems facilities!!

Originally Posted by Ironman88

I'm trying to save as many endocrine systems as I can.

LMAO who do you think you are?

Originally Posted by Ironman88

I loved his proposed inverse AI dosing scheme to that poster a few pages back. Ramping up an "AI" then abruptly discontinuing is a great way to cause this "rebound gyno", not prevent it.

There's no rebound in E2 with steroidal AIs. Steroidal AI's like Teslac, Exemestane and 6-bromo will not result in 'rebound' phenomena because the inhibition is non-competitive and irreversible. They act as false substrates, so aromatase is still happy to act on them (instead of androstenedione)
and the body keeps no record of an imbalance. Go back to school.

Jesus, how can all you're posting be totally wrong?

Originally Posted by CaptMcClain

You've been given a brain.

His brain got to be lost by the postal service.Stop posting, your words are embarassingly ignorant.

[THEHUGE]

Originally Posted by Ironman88

Actually research chemicals are normally produced in extremely sterile environments, well because they're research chemicals. Imagine the scrutiny they are put through, and how many experiments they'd mess up had they not been accurate. In any case the solvent won't allow for any type of bacterial development. .

LMAO @ scientists purchasing their tools from your beloved research chems sites

[tdog69]

Originally Posted by Ironman88

Wow, just wow. Where to begin. What you've just written might be the most insanely idiotic thing I have ever read. You're going to play russian roulette with your endocrine system to prove a point on an internet message board? Sure some people do recover with NO PCT, but the simple fact is most don't. You're also putting your body through unneeded risks. Nolva also has other beneficial effects, such as blood lipid profiles, and has been medically proven to cause dramatic increases in testosterone. As for blood tests I have my own, and can provide countless others. The effectiveness of SERMs is not in question like OTC pct.

Research Chemicals state not for human consumption because they have to. It's called a loophole. By suspension agent, I believe you meant solvent. Which will predominately be ethanol, or glycerin, a sugar alcohol, which can be used as a substitute. That has no bearing on what is suspended. Actually research chemicals are normally produced in extremely sterile environments, well because they're research chemicals. Imagine the scrutiny they are put through, and how many experiments they'd mess up had they not been accurate. In any case the solvent won't allow for any type of bacterial development. They're so cheap to make it would be stupid for a lab to make bunk stuff.

Wow just wow, there you go thinking again. Russian roulette with your endocrine system, how is having blood work and taking an OTC PCT playing Russian roulette with your endocrine system, LOL last time I checked it is called research. Nowhere did I say I have never run it and this is my first time with this Anabolic. Russian roulette is taking a Research SERM and praying that it truly dosed right or it is in actually the substance you ordered.

Take a tour of Pharmaceutical company sometime, then go take a tour of a company that makes a research chemicals sold on the internet, o wait they don?t do tours nor do they give physical locations of the labs.

[JJ22]

Originally Posted by olazabal

whatttt? but aren't they all just bottled urine? /end sarcasm

You act like there aren't bunk serms out there.

[Ironman88]

Originally Posted by THEHUGE

Are you drunk? what the FUK has this to do with Indole-3-carbinol??

It's been proven to be MORE EFFECTIVE than Indole-3-carbinol. Indole-3-carbinol consumption produces an even more unfavorable ratio. Don't worry I have plenty of studies on my laptop. When you're in a hole, stop digging.

Somebody got it finally.
Please everybody notice how he describes accurately "the extremely sterile environments and quality controls" of those research chems facilities!!

What are we noticing? Truth, logic, and English? I mean what the hell could get contaminated? Do you even know anything about chemistry? Solvents like alcohol and glycerin won't allow biological growth of any kind...that's right no fungi, bacteria, or whatever else you are attempting to insinuate. In fact they're commonly used to kill germs, fungi, and bacteria.

There's no rebound in E2 with steroidal AIs. Go back to school.
Jesus, how can all you're posting be totally wrong?

Lulz, It's funny you mention school. I'm graduating next semester with a BS in Biochemistry and Molecular Biology. You're saying your estrogen levels don't increase coming of an AI? This mysterious rebound E2 you speak of is not the only avenue of possible gyno development, and lol at you calling Indole-3-carbinol a steroidal AI.

Yours got to be lost by the postal service.Stop posting, your words are embarassingly ignorant.

I may stop posting in this thread. I'm losing faith in humanity after reading most of these posts. It amazes me some people can wake up and remember to breath in the morning.

[Ironman88]

Originally Posted by JJ22

You act like there aren't bunk serms out there.

Bunk no, scammers yes. If you get something it's almost a certainty it's legit, and anyone with half a brain and access to google can find plenty of reliable sites with many satisfied customers.

[michael3435]

Originally Posted by Ironman88

Don't worry I have plenty of studies on my laptop. When you're in a hole, stop digging.

in for this....

[Ironman88]

Originally Posted by THEHUGE

LMAO @ scientists purchasing their tools from your beloved research chems sites

Silly me, I thought you had the power of deductive reasoning.

[CaptMcClain]

ya messed up your quoting there a bit HUGE lol

I was like; "waaaait a minute"