is it neccessary to train Heavy to build muscle?

[stayfit2008]

I am dealing with a shoulder injury I sustained some time ago in my past. The injury may require me to change my whole training philosophy. Due to this injury I may have to lift lighter for chest and shoulder exercises. Is it possible to still gain size and mass with lighter volume?

[zmcdole]

Originally Posted by stayfit2008

I am dealing with a shoulder injury I sustained some time ago in my past. The injury may require me to change my whole training philosophy. Due to this injury I may have to lift lighter for chest and shoulder exercises. Is it possible to still gain size and mass with lighter volume?

I think it is absolutely possible. Just make sure you are constantly changing up your routine in regards to movements, order of movements, and even though you have to lift a little bit lighter you can still go as heavy as possible just for higher reps. Just don't let your muscles adapt and grow tolerant to what you are doing and I'm pretty sure you're still gonna grow.

[Jacure]

eat alot and just trained as hard as you can.

[Sporto1633]

Originally Posted by stayfit2008

I am dealing with a shoulder injury I sustained some time ago in my past. The injury may require me to change my whole training philosophy. Due to this injury I may have to lift lighter for chest and shoulder exercises. Is it possible to still gain size and mass with lighter volume?

With the available research that we have right now, the max strength rep range is responsible for the majority of all muscle growth, especially in trained athletes. The hypertophy rep range and beyond does account for a little, but relative to the max strength rep range, it really isn't much. Those rep ranges, however, are still very important for overall maximum development of any given muscle group due to the type of fibers that get recruited heavily beyond the max strength range. That's why I always say that all rep ranges are important.

But the thing is, you gotta do what you gotta do. Is it optimal to not train heavy? No, of course not. But, if you can't because of injury or anything else, then there's nothing you can do about that. Just do what you can do and get the most out of it - the stage will always be there

Sporto

[stayfit2008]

I had been dealing with this injury for years,...Ya know,..I just realized something,...I'm really psyching myself out here! Ive delt with this for years and it hasn't stopped me yet,..Hell with it,..I'm just gonna work on form,,.adjust a few exercises and drive on Dammit! Sure I'll identify exactly what the problem is but nothing changed since my last prep,..It's not any worse,..F@ck It,...I'm gonna train like there is no tomorrow,.I'll just train smarter,.Enuff self induced Pitty!! and I don't think I'll opt for surgery any time soon unless I really F@ck something up.

[njmuscle66]

Originally Posted by Sporto1633

But the thing is, you gotta do what you gotta do. Is it optimal to not train heavy? No, of course not. But, if you can't because of injury or anything else, then there's nothing you can do about that. Just do what you can do and get the most out of it - the stage will always be there

Sporto

Well said Tommy and one should always train heavy, if possible, however I would just add that "heavy" is a relative term. I am by no means the strongest guy in the gym. Far from it and always has been. In fact someone watching me train might even consider my training weights "light"
80-90 lb DB Bench, 40 lb DB curls for a 200 plus competitive bodybuilder is not much LOL.

But there are other ways to overload the muscle. Supersets, Pre-Exhaust, TUT, etc are all methods that can be used to make the training weight seem "heavy".

Chris-I like how in the end you answered your own question LOL. Senior citizen's like us just need to be smarter about how we train. Besides stop trying to out lift Matty H. The dude is a freak of nature in the strength department.

[Cape1]

Hey Fit

You just have to figure out movements that work. Re: my f'd up shouldler: I can't really do any over head pressing with significant weight but I can do inclines at a lower angle. I can do overhead presses using the plate loaded squat machine because I can lean forward a little. HEre's the good news though: almost anything you do for upper body has some impact on your shoulders so it's not like they're not getting worked.

Just work around it. And, like Mr. Jeffers said, Is it ideal? no. show stopper, no. Hey, I can't do rear squats anymore. Is that good? Of course not! But, do my heavy front squats fill a fair amount of that void? you bet your ass they do!

When you get old like us bro, **** starts to break. Just have to work smarter.

[stayfit2008]

Originally Posted by njmuscle66

Well said Tommy and one should always train heavy, if possible, however I would just add that "heavy" is a relative term. I am by no means the strongest guy in the gym. Far from it and always has been. In fact someone watching me train might even consider my training weights "light"
80-90 lb DB Bench, 40 lb DB curls for a 200 plus competitive bodybuilder is not much LOL.

But there are other ways to overload the muscle. Supersets, Pre-Exhaust, TUT, etc are all methods that can be used to make the training weight seem "heavy".

Chris-I like how in the end you answered your own question LOL. Senior citizen's like us just need to be smarter about how we train. Besides stop trying to out lift Matty H. The dude is a freak of nature in the strength department.

I don't mind going lighter and leaving my ego at the door. these are great examples of what I can do and still grow,..as an old fart.

Originally Posted by Cape1

Hey Fit

You just have to figure out movements that work. Re: my f'd up shouldler: I can't really do any over head pressing with significant weight but I can do inclines at a lower angle. I can do overhead presses using the plate loaded squat machine because I can lean forward a little. HEre's the good news though: almost anything you do for upper body has some impact on your shoulders so it's not like they're not getting worked.

Just work around it. And, like Mr. Jeffers said, Is it ideal? no. show stopper, no. Hey, I can't do rear squats anymore. Is that good? Of course not! But, do my heavy front squats fill a fair amount of that void? you bet your ass they do!

When you get old like us bro, **** starts to break. Just have to work smarter.

I'm now in this process identifying what movements I can do with the least amount of injury issue. My only concern is making the injury worse. But smart lifting should strengthen the area I would think and only make it better?

[busyboy21]

Originally Posted by stayfit2008

I'm now in this process identifying what movements I can do with the least amount of injury issue. My only concern is making the injury worse. But smart lifting should strengthen the area I would think and only make it better?

Possibly this is where a sports doctor can help out. Let the experts help give some insight. I'm sure they've seen them all. Just my 2c

[aguy fish]

i've a veryn severe shoulder injury too as i told you in a previous thread, I need surgery badly and I'm prepping for a comp so I have to wait. My pain is some day almost umbearable and I've had to stop lifting heavy. I used to do 6 reps full strict overhead free BB presses at 265lbs ( i'm 4'11 and I was 190 lbs off season). belive me or not I have not really gone through shoulder shrinkage since i am going lighetr. i have considerably shortened my rest time between sets as low as 60 sec , i stay in the 6-8 rep range but because of short rest this is lighetr. i've also found out that isolation movement in lots of various angles really helped to keep size and even improve my shoulders " shape": as you can see in my avi ( from last year) my delts are still very "round" . I also don't train my whole delts at once: I do side delts with chest and rear delts with back. Presse movement are in the front with chest and in the back with back. It really helped me deal with this injury although now I cannot avoid surgery sine it has been years since I've been waiting and always delaying it saying " may be later" ....
I really hope it helps, this is only my experience though and I am not a pro but i'm ofetn told my shoulders are still one of my best bodypart along with my legs.

[stayfit2008]

Originally Posted by aguy fish

i've a veryn severe shoulder injury too as i told you in a previous thread, I need surgery badly and I'm prepping for a comp so I have to wait. My pain is some day almost umbearable and I've had to stop lifting heavy. I used to do 6 reps full strict overhead free BB presses at 265lbs ( i'm 4'11 and I was 190 lbs off season). belive me or not I have not really gone through shoulder shrinkage since i am going lighetr. i have considerably shortened my rest time between sets as low as 60 sec , i stay in the 6-8 rep range but because of short rest this is lighetr. i've also found out that isolation movement in lots of various angles really helped to keep size and even improve my shoulders " shape": as you can see in my avi ( from last year) my delts are still very "round" . I also don't train my whole delts at once: I do side delts with chest and rear delts with back. Presse movement are in the front with chest and in the back with back. It really helped me deal with this injury although now I cannot avoid surgery sine it has been years since I've been waiting and always delaying it saying " may be later" ....
I really hope it helps, this is only my experience though and I am not a pro but i'm ofetn told my shoulders are still one of my best bodypart along with my legs.

Do you do any direct shoulder presses? also what is your chest training like,...I like the idea of shortened rest periods between sets,..Thanks

[aguy fish]

I currently do:
6 days a week: ( warm up excluded all 6-8 reps 60-70 sec rest between set)
day 1: back ( 12 sets ), rear delts ( 9 sets ), biceps ( 10 sets ), abs ( 8 sets)
day 2: chest ( 12 sets ), side delts ( 9 sets ) triceps ( 10 sets ) abs ( 8 sets )
day3: quads ( 16-18 sets ), calevs ( 9 sets )
day 4: same as day 1
day 5: same as day 2
day 6: hammies ( 16-18 sets ), calves ( 9 sets )
day 7: off
I'm prepping for show though but this is very hard !

Chest is: usually , because of my shoulder injury this is the least painful:
flat DB flies very strict and heavy: 4x6reps
Inc DB flies: 4x6
4 sets chest press( one session inc one session flat ) full stretch at the bottom very strict and slightly posed at the bottom2 seconds : 4x6-8reps

When I'm really in pain I do some pre exhaust peck deck 5-6 sest 15 reps 45 sec then 2 presses movements as before.I like to keep my arms open and not on a right angles since it's too painful on my front delt; Since I do lots of chest presses I don't do any front raises and don't do traps because I think it does not look good on short guys and takes away some visible shoulder width. My opinon

For shoulder lots of side raises: cables, one DB, lying on the side too. i've found out that sometimes slightly moving the DB 1 or 2 inches forward or behind was stopping the pain. So i have a lot more control on my shoulder cap when doing single DB works.
I do one presse movement at the end of the side delt/chest session: either front raises very upward on the smith machine wide grip, or Back raises with DB. 3-4 sets 60 sec rest.

Hope it helps !

[stayfit2008]

Originally Posted by aguy fish

I currently do:
6 days a week: ( warm up excluded all 6-8 reps 60-70 sec rest between set)
day 1: back ( 12 sets ), rear delts ( 9 sets ), biceps ( 10 sets ), abs ( 8 sets)
day 2: chest ( 12 sets ), side delts ( 9 sets ) triceps ( 10 sets ) abs ( 8 sets )
day3: quads ( 16-18 sets ), calevs ( 9 sets )
day 4: same as day 1
day 5: same as day 2
day 6: hammies ( 16-18 sets ), calves ( 9 sets )
day 7: off
I'm prepping for show though but this is very hard !

Chest is: usually , because of my shoulder injury this is the least painful:
flat DB flies very strict and heavy: 4x6reps
Inc DB flies: 4x6
4 sets chest press( one session inc one session flat ) full stretch at the bottom very strict and slightly posed at the bottom2 seconds : 4x6-8reps

When I'm really in pain I do some pre exhaust peck deck 5-6 sest 15 reps 45 sec then 2 presses movements as before.I like to keep my arms open and not on a right angles since it's too painful on my front delt; Since I do lots of chest presses I don't do any front raises and don't do traps because I think it does not look good on short guys and takes away some visible shoulder width. My opinon

For shoulder lots of side raises: cables, one DB, lying on the side too. i've found out that sometimes slightly moving the DB 1 or 2 inches forward or behind was stopping the pain. So i have a lot more control on my shoulder cap when doing single DB works.
I do one presse movement at the end of the side delt/chest session: either front raises very upward on the smith machine wide grip, or Back raises with DB. 3-4 sets 60 sec rest.

Hope it helps !

This does help,..Let me get this right tho,..prep or no prep,..you pre-exhaust yourself first with the flies or raises before you do the presses,..right? or is this just for Contest Prep??,..I like the idea of the pre load before./this will enable me to dol ighter weight mut at a great intensity.

[liftjunkie06]

Originally Posted by Sporto1633

With the available research that we have right now, the max strength rep range is responsible for the majority of all muscle growth, especially in trained athletes. The hypertophy rep range and beyond does account for a little, but relative to the max strength rep range, it really isn't much. Those rep ranges, however, are still very important for overall maximum development of any given muscle group due to the type of fibers that get recruited heavily beyond the max strength range. That's why I always say that all rep ranges are important.

But the thing is, you gotta do what you gotta do. Is it optimal to not train heavy? No, of course not. But, if you can't because of injury or anything else, then there's nothing you can do about that. Just do what you can do and get the most out of it - the stage will always be there

Sporto

This. I've been there, it may heal up, but you just have to see where your limits are.

[stayfit2008]

Originally Posted by liftjunkie06

This. I've been there, it may heal up, but you just have to see where your limits are.

So far with the limited amount of rehab,..I am virtually pain free! I have been incorperating some new techniques but I have been crushing it lately,..But I am training alot smarter, and form is optimum!

[crew5]

I've been lifting for 24 years - since I was 16 years old. I had my days of 450 benches and 675 squats. Due to a shoulder injury 4 years ago I can't do any flat or incline bench anymore so I had to change my philosophy to flies, cables, push ups etc and won the over-all at my first show last year (60 competitors) at 39 years old . While I agree when you are young you need that heavy weight to build the I think the amount of years you've been lfting means something. I thinkn the injury actually improved my physique forcing me to slow things down and squeeze. I guess when you get injured you should crawl into a hole and die = it's over.

I can't wait to see these 'go heavy or go home' guys when they are 40 with 20 plus years of lifting injuries.