and post some things you might consider to open/approach with the second time so we can tell you if its good or not. you want her to smile after hearing the first thing you say/not too funny or it will seem corny.
Lmao @ ' a conglomerate of proteins that my mind has evolved to want to fuk'
you sound so much like me its not funny. We'd get along like a house on fire in real life.
__________________
Bodybuilding is like Fight Club...I was on a plane the other day, I looked up and saw a guy get on the plane...big guy. I knew he lifted. I knew he ate oatmeal and egg whites for breakfast. He looked at me. He knew I lifted. He knew I had a protein shake before bed. We didnt say one word to each other,but I knew...and he knew. Now that's some cool, Fight Club type ****. Bodybuilding is the best thing since sliced bread...whole grain bread that is.
Alsio, have you considered the possibility that you might have Aspergers Syndrome? I'm picking up on a few things from reading your posts.
-the whole virgin thing
-social awkwardness
-incredibly eloquent and unnecessary verbosity
-narrow intensed focus interests etc
__________________
Bodybuilding is like Fight Club...I was on a plane the other day, I looked up and saw a guy get on the plane...big guy. I knew he lifted. I knew he ate oatmeal and egg whites for breakfast. He looked at me. He knew I lifted. He knew I had a protein shake before bed. We didnt say one word to each other,but I knew...and he knew. Now that's some cool, Fight Club type ****. Bodybuilding is the best thing since sliced bread...whole grain bread that is.
and post some things you might consider to open/approach with the second time so we can tell you if its good or not. you want her to smile after hearing the first thing you say/not too funny or it will seem corny.
be creative.
I was just thinking about it for a while while taking a dump... and man I have a brilliant idea... it will be epic ( i think).... I don't have the whole approach written down at the moment... but I know that part of it will involve asking her about her thoughts on men and makeup; I will preface that by saying that there's nothing wrong with men and make up, and, as she correctly pointed out, when it comes to our person we should do what makes us happy and what makes us feel good regardless of what others think (as long as we don't hurt others). So if a man wears make up because it makes him feel good, then kudos to him; it's not queer, metro, beta etc... but that being said, I'd like to know whether she thinks makeup can look good on a man ... i'll then ask her if she's ever done makeup on a man (the answer is irrelevant)... and then I say something like... "you know what.... I'm feeling spontaneous today... I'm curious now... I'd like to see what I look like with make up.... want to make me up?" (they do consultations and give people a makeup job if they want it)... then she can do me... and I'll get some pics of me with my make up and post some cropped pics lol... might even make it my new facebook profile pic lulz. Then after that we'd go for the coffee...
yay or nay? lol who cares... I actually want to get make up done... it'll be fun...
I'll think about my approach more tomorrow and I'll post a tentative script for people to analyze if they have time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wildphucker
Lmao @ ' a conglomerate of proteins that my mind has evolved to want to fuk'
you sound so much like me its not funny. We'd get along like a house on fire in real life.
lol... I've read some your posts and I thought the same thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wildphucker
Alsio, have you considered the possibility that you might have Aspergers Syndrome? I'm picking up on a few things from reading your posts.
-the whole virgin thing
-social awkwardness
-incredibly eloquent and unnecessary verbosity
-narrow intensed focus interests etc
I don't even know what that is (haven't studied it in school yet)... it's possible... I'll look it up when I have some time ... but to be honest I don't really care if I do; it wouldn't really change anything.
I don't even know what that is (haven't studied it in school yet)... it's possible... I'll look it up when I have some time ... but to be honest I don't really care if I do; it wouldn't really change anything.
I think it would change alot-there are alot of books written for people with Aspergers on dating/social life etc, and alot of psychologists have shown that many, many men who are virgins/not many friends show signs of Aspergers.
Also read David DeAngelos 'Why very intelligent men fail with women'. This will probably be you right down to a T.
__________________
Bodybuilding is like Fight Club...I was on a plane the other day, I looked up and saw a guy get on the plane...big guy. I knew he lifted. I knew he ate oatmeal and egg whites for breakfast. He looked at me. He knew I lifted. He knew I had a protein shake before bed. We didnt say one word to each other,but I knew...and he knew. Now that's some cool, Fight Club type ****. Bodybuilding is the best thing since sliced bread...whole grain bread that is.
yay or nay? lol who cares... I actually want to get make up done... it'll be fun...
That whole conversation/process would be so incredibly awkward and just plain strange. Don't do it if you want a reasonable shot with this lady. She's a cutie, by the way.
Stop saying "I wanted to talk to you", asking them personal questions without even knowing them etc. it sounds creepy. If you talk to other non-shopkeepers don't make it sound so planned. Make a joke about something they're wearing or an item they're looking at, as if you're saying it for your own amusement, and then "accidentally" become interested in them. You come off like a robot who is hunting for women.
Malodrax, NICE!!!!!!! You're always going to have some bad encounters, but you can't let it phase you b/c it really is a numbers game. You did well with a few of those encounters and I think you DEFINITELY have a chance with that last girl that asked you if you are in the mall alot. Even the encounter with the two friends that you gave your number to has potential. Even if they don't call you, what you do is ballsy and takes guts and they recognize that. You are the man! You are doing very well.
Stop saying "I wanted to talk to you", asking them personal questions without even knowing them etc. it sounds creepy. If you talk to other non-shopkeepers don't make it sound so planned. Make a joke about something they're wearing or an item they're looking at, as if you're saying it for your own amusement, and then "accidentally" become interested in them. You come off like a robot who is hunting for women.
this x213123912837132897123
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man I have so much respect for this guy, he is making such good progress. any tips for being able to think quickly on your feet and have good responses? if there is a subject I don't know anything / care about I cannot seem to speak about it for more than 2 seconds !
WhatisTheKey... our responses are very long... so let's simplify our discussions by outlining the sources of our disagreements.
Ok, let?s just focus on the topics you want to pick up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malodrax
Now my actions are legal, so law and order isn't the issue here. We have also already agreed that we can't please everyone; any given action has the potential to displease someone, and it is virtually IMPOSSIBLE to do something that is universally "right". As we already discussed "right or wrong" can be subjective; what is right to you may be wrong to me and vice-versa. I don't think that simply doing something without a person's consent is automatically wrong or abusive; we do things without people's consent all the time; you check a girl out without her consent, you talk to your friends about people without their consent, when you get a job, you are taking a job away from someone else without their consent and so on. So consent or lack thereof, is not necessarily the guiding principle behind our actions; In my opinion, doing something without someone's consent becomes wrong when that action can pose significant harm to that person, the action interferes with/violates a person's rights and the net harm outweighs the benefit. Below we will analyze the potential harm imposed on the people in my vids, and I will attempt to show that the harm is insignificant. So now, I will outline to you way I rationalize my actions and ultimately why I feel that my actions are not "wrong" or "abuse".
Whether it is legal may not be an issue for you because you take it as an opinion. But it is not determined by your words and I don't know whether it is legal or not. The fact that we cannot please everyone does not mean we can ignore irritating others, or intentionally overlooking others rights. They are 2 separate concepts. Being impossible does not mean you don't have to strive for it. It is like avoiding car accident is impossible, but it does not mean you can drive recklessly. "Right" and "Wrong" are not an issue here. The point in the discussion was whether you will stay on social awkward if you choose weird actions and whether you are inviting troubles. I did not say that consent will decide "Right" or "Wrong". I was implying that getting a consent could be less likely getting troubles, or in dispute. Whether your action is "Right" or "Wrong" is not determined by how many PROs for YOU but also any CONs for OTHERS. So simply comparing the quality and quantity of PROs and CONs won't work here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malodrax
Now keep in mind that we typically do PRO/CON analysis when we do things, and it is very difficult, if not impossible, to do things that have ZERO cons. Thus we often do things that do carry some CONs and/or potential CONs because the quality and quantity of the PROs are greater overall.
So now I will do a PRO/CON analysis of my actions:
PROS
-overcome social anxiety
-improve social skills/conversation skills (with video analysis and tips from viewers)
-work on confidence (with video analysis and tips from viewers)
-Improve my ability to make friends
-get better with women (with video analysis and tips from viewers)
-maximize my appeal (physically and verbally) so that I can maximize my chances of getting a girlfriend at some point. (with video analysis and tips from viewers)
-having fun, being creative, have laughs
-bringing entertainment for misc brahs
-potentially helping others socially anxious/awkward people
CONS
-sometimes I creep people out or make myself look "weird" by their standards... (not really a con because I don't really care to please others incessantly anyway).
-IF the people who I tape find out about my vids, then they MAY be creeped out/upset that I taped them secretly, they MAY be upset to have their face on the net for random people to see.
**As you can see there is only ONE potential CON; it's not even a definitive CON. The PROs on the other hand ARE tangible and definitive and they greatly outnumber the potential CONS.
In your analysis, you seem self centered. The all PROs you listed are for you not for the subjects you have approached to. I bet you that your HS peers could come up with more PROs than CONs when they made fun of you. As you repeatedly stated that one?s action should not pose harm to others. So net gain is not an only criterion to justify an action. With the logic in your analysis, a rapist can argue that he has all PROs (to overcome his loneliness, to meet his biological needs, to have fun and a good time etc.) and CONs (no CONs if the victim could be cooperative and enjoy the event.) for the victim are just potential. So his action is justified. Are you drawing the same conclusion?
Even those PROs that you listed may not be PROs if you get into a situation similar to the character in your story. Assume you get into a trouble (it could a civil law suit, having a conflict with security guard, getting confronted by a girl?s boyfriend who is fed up by your treatment to his girl etc.), your blood reaches its "boiling point" and you had a nerve meltdown. You bite someone's "testacies" to serve the "justice" for your unhappy past. Then your valuable properties are taken away and get locked up. Your mom has a heart broken/attack. You attribute all those events to others. The all PROs you listed will be gone. So there is also a risk analysis and management. If you are psychologically strong and able to ride the roller coaster, the risk may not be a big issue for you. But if you had anxiety or the psychological issues in the past plus you apparently have a bitter taste of your past, you got be careful to make risky moves.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malodrax
Now just because an action has more PROs than CONs, that doesn't mean that the action is right or wise; we have to analyze the QUALITY of the PROs/CONs aswell as the quantity. If the overall quality and quantity of the PROs for an action is greater than the overall quality and quanity the CONS, then it would be rational and acceptable to carry out that action. This is how people operate; we don't go around doing things that have no CONs whatsoever... and we don't go around making sure to refrain from doing anything that has any CON... that would be unrealistic and impractical... remember we can't please everyone and everything.
Needless to say, the quality of the PROs are high. Now lets examine the quality of the potential CON (for the sake of this discussion, let's even go so far as to assume that the girls WOULD be upset with having their face on the net). Is this CON of high enough quality to overshadow all of the PROs and thus make my actions "wrong" or unwise? I say NO. Think about it, these girls work in a public setting; 100s of random people walk by them each day and see them and talk with them. Many of these people see them or check them out or hear their conversations with other people/customers without them even knowing. Each of these random people could look at them, hear them and think negatively of them all without them even knowing.. all without their consent. If they were really so "afraid" to have their faces seen by random people or to have people hear them in conversations then they should go around with a bag on their heads or they should just isolate themselves forever (ideally they should actually get therapy). Clearly they're not afraid to be seen in public by random people, clearly they're not afraid to converse with others and have others overhear the conversations so why would they be so upset to have their face and words seen on a public forum? what's the difference here? There is none. So the fact that their face is being posted on a public forum is irrelevant. The fact that my casual, non-private conversation with them is posted is irrelevant. If they are upset by this, then they shouldn't be; it's some illogical insecurity. Now should I really abandon all of the tangible PROS just because some chick is illogically uncomfortable with having her face on the web on a public forum? I think not. Overall, my actions are rational, they don't pose any significant harm, and the net benefit is greater than the net harm.
If you apply your reasoning here to the case that you were picked on by your peers, what can you conclude? BTW, telling you having a boyfriend may be considered as a private conversation. You also admitted that you set up for rejections. Do you think the conversations you had were truly casual or you had a strong agenda? Do you think you were using them as a "tool" for your own personal gain? It is not like people do not want to help you. I believe people do not want to be used in a manipulative way. That is why I said that being truthful and honest is a better way to overcome your issues.
There is no concept of "raping" in the wild animal world. One animal can take an action against another's will. The fact that one boyfriend is kissing his girl in a public setting does not give you the permission to kiss the same girl since the girl is not afraid of being kissed in the public. If you are so confident that those girls won't be upset or should not be upset, why do you need a hidden camera and not try to get a consent from them to post your videos? For a civilized society to function, rights and responsibilities have to coexist. You have been talking about your rights and benefits but not much about responsibilities and other's rights. You sounded a super-citizen and the society has to accept. To me it won't work out as you expected. You cannot enjoy both what the civilized society offers to you and the wildness that you desired. It is just not fair to others who maintain the law and order for you while you choose either side of the world as you wish.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malodrax
You also disagree with my methods because you think I'm "cheating my mind" by doing what I've been doing. The phrase "cheating my mind" implies that I am giving myself some sort of illusion of benefit - meaning that I'm not deriving any tangible benefits from my efforts. I completely disagree; what I've done HAS helped me tremendously; the initially socially akward things I did had allowed me to condition myself to the point where I no longer care about rejection or coming across as "weird" or "awkward". Ultimately, those initially socially strange videos helped me overcome approach anxiety (which is a HUGE first step for me because prior to this endeavour I would never even be able to get myself to approach people in social settings, let alone women). After overcoming the approach anxiety, I have been able to work on my conversation skills with women and get tips from fellow miscers. These efforts have allowed me to analyze what I've been doing wrong and what I could improve on. I've made tremendous improvements since first starting and I feel alot more comfortable/confident talking to girls. I've made more improvements in this past month then I could have ever imagined (check out my latest vids specifically). So at the end of the day, the results speak from themselves.
I have not discounted the benefits you gain in this process. Instead, I have acknowledged many times. That is not the point. I was talking about "cheating my mind" in the context of "boosting your courage" to freely break the social boundary. You can break the social boundary and none but you can stop it, but it won't be free. That is my point. Focusing on breaking your personal boundary is a better bet for you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malodrax
So at this point... after reading my arguments... I really think that you'd have to be a pretty big white knight if you really think what I'm doing is "wrong" or "abusive"...
I am not convinced anything at this point. I still think your action is abusive regardless what you think I am.
Makeup chick was a success. You could have mindfuked her by not getting the number.
__________________
"Real results require real effort. You need to work so hard you almost pass out when you do a heavy set. You need to drive yourself to the point where, many times, you literally collapse after the set is over. You must train so hard that one heavy set can make you sore for days. You need to yell and shout and sweat and hurt when you train."
Ok, let?s just focus on the topics you want to pick up.
Whether it is legal may not be an issue for you because you take it as an opinion. But it is not determined by your words and I don't know whether it is legal or not. The fact that we cannot please everyone does not mean we can ignore irritating others, or intentionally overlooking others rights. They are 2 separate concepts. Being impossible does not mean you don't have to strive for it. It is like avoiding car accident is impossible, but it does not mean you can drive recklessly. "Right" and "Wrong" are not an issue here. The point in the discussion was whether you will stay on social awkward if you choose weird actions and whether you are inviting troubles. I did not say that consent will decide "Right" or "Wrong". I was implying that getting a consent could be less likely getting troubles, or in dispute. Whether your action is "Right" or "Wrong" is not determined by how many PROs for YOU but also any CONs for OTHERS. So simply comparing the quality and quantity of PROs and CONs won't work here.
In your analysis, you seem self centered. The all PROs you listed are for you not for the subjects you have approached to. I bet you that your HS peers could come up with more PROs than CONs when they made fun of you. As you repeatedly stated that one?s action should not pose harm to others. So net gain is not an only criterion to justify an action. With the logic in your analysis, a rapist can argue that he has all PROs (to overcome his loneliness, to meet his biological needs, to have fun and a good time etc.) and CONs (no CONs if the victim could be cooperative and enjoy the event.) for the victim are just potential. So his action is justified. Are you drawing the same conclusion?
Even those PROs that you listed may not be PROs if you get into a situation similar to the character in your story. Assume you get into a trouble (it could a civil law suit, having a conflict with security guard, getting confronted by a girl?s boyfriend who is fed up by your treatment to his girl etc.), your blood reaches its "boiling point" and you had a nerve meltdown. You bite someone's "testacies" to serve the "justice" for your unhappy past. Then your valuable properties are taken away and get locked up. Your mom has a heart broken/attack. You attribute all those events to others. The all PROs you listed will be gone. So there is also a risk analysis and management. If you are psychologically strong and able to ride the roller coaster, the risk may not be a big issue for you. But if you had anxiety or the psychological issues in the past plus you apparently have a bitter taste of your past, you got be careful to make risky moves.
If you apply your reasoning here to the case that you were picked on by your peers, what can you conclude? BTW, telling you having a boyfriend may be considered as a private conversation. You also admitted that you set up for rejections. Do you think the conversations you had were truly casual or you had a strong agenda? Do you think you were using them as a "tool" for your own personal gain? It is not like people do not want to help you. I believe people do not want to be used in a manipulative way. That is why I said that being truthful and honest is a better way to overcome your issues.
There is no concept of "raping" in the wild animal world. One animal can take an action against another's will. The fact that one boyfriend is kissing his girl in a public setting does not give you the permission to kiss the same girl since the girl is not afraid of being kissed in the public. If you are so confident that those girls won't be upset or should not be upset, why do you need a hidden camera and not try to get a consent from them to post your videos? For a civilized society to function, rights and responsibilities have to coexist. You have been talking about your rights and benefits but not much about responsibilities and other's rights. You sounded a super-citizen and the society has to accept. To me it won't work out as you expected. You cannot enjoy both what the civilized society offers to you and the wildness that you desired. It is just not fair to others who maintain the law and order for you while you choose either side of the world as you wish.
I have not discounted the benefits you gain in this process. Instead, I have acknowledged many times. That is not the point. I was talking about "cheating my mind" in the context of "boosting your courage" to freely break the social boundary. You can break the social boundary and none but you can stop it, but it won't be free. That is my point. Focusing on breaking your personal boundary is a better bet for you.
I am not convinced anything at this point. I still think your action is abusive regardless what you think I am.
This is my best apprach by far in my opinion; I tried to randomly approach a couple of girls at the same time... to be honest... I think that this is a pretty good approach if you want to go up to a group of girls.... you guys be the judge.
Transcription
Malodrax: Hi sorry to come up to you guys randomly like this... but I saw you both walking by and I felt that if I didn't come and stop you guys then I'd never talk to you guys.. probably...so I thought that maybe I just stop you and try and start a conversation... so... Hi I'm X...
girl 1: you scared us
girl 2: You've seen us before
Malodrax: uh no I was walking by.. I saw you guys and.. I was walking by a few times and ..
girl 2: like here at zellers?
Malodrax: yea... and I just felt compelled to come up and start a conversation... why not right?
Hey buddy.
This was an EXCELLENT approach. It is NOT surprising that it was a successful one. you engaged in an interesting conversation about her and her profession and her personal choices. You made her think.
Women love it when a man can make them think. Because they suck at thinking on their own. (serious)
And you did not come right out telling her she's beautiful etc. You actually made her a little self concious by asking her if she always wears this much makeup..
but later told her she doesn't look like she needs it because of her natural beauty.
BUT...you failed in closing. You should have asked for her NUMBER!!!!!!
omg dude how could you blow that?
also here are a couple tips.
1. dont say "excuse me, sorry to bother you". you are giving her too much status immediately. you shouldn't act like you're bothering her. you should act as though she should be thankful that you are approaching her.
2. dont say "do you think you might want to get some coffee some time"? say, "listen, we should get some coffee some time, type your number into my phone" (then hand her your phone ready for her to type her number) your question reeks of low self confidence..... be aggressive.
I was just thinking about it for a while while taking a dump... and man I have a brilliant idea... it will be epic ( i think).... I don't have the whole approach written down at the moment... but I know that part of it will involve asking her about her thoughts on men and makeup; I will preface that by saying that there's nothing wrong with men and make up, and, as she correctly pointed out, when it comes to our person we should do what makes us happy and what makes us feel good regardless of what others think (as long as we don't hurt others). So if a man wears make up because it makes him feel good, then kudos to him; it's not queer, metro, beta etc... but that being said, I'd like to know whether she thinks makeup can look good on a man ... i'll then ask her if she's ever done makeup on a man (the answer is irrelevant)... and then I say something like... "you know what.... I'm feeling spontaneous today... I'm curious now... I'd like to see what I look like with make up.... want to make me up?" (they do consultations and give people a makeup job if they want it)... then she can do me... and I'll get some pics of me with my make up and post some cropped pics lol... might even make it my new facebook profile pic lulz. Then after that we'd go for the coffee...
yay or nay? lol who cares... I actually want to get make up done... it'll be fun...
no don't talk about makeup. she has to deal with that all day. don't get your face done with make up either. that just plain fails.
don't ask her for her opinion on things.
you are suppose to go back to see her again to say hi, say something funny. small talk back and forth between you flirting and number close.
#1. I would ask for a phone number rather than asking for coffee. The reason I say this is they are going to feel more comfortable giving out a phone number, that way they can get to know you a little better and then you get the date. When you just straight up ask if they want to get coffee it really puts them on the spot, especially since they don't know you, so they will be more likely to decline the idea.
#2. For the love of god don't call them out on having a boyfriend. If they say they have a boyfriend say something like "I don't remember saying anything about your boyfriend, here is my phone number for when you change your mind" . Calling them out on if they have a boyfriend is unproductive and most likely comes off a little creepy.
(serious)
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