Dirty Bulk vs Clean Bulk

[dat]

Originally Posted by kris90

I'm not wrong, it's my opinion. Let's test out the theory if you don't believe me?

It's been tested, and you don't want to listen to anyone else but yourself, it seems.

[-RAZ-]

Originally Posted by kris90

Alright just saying, you don't need to gain any fat to gain muscle, so why bother?

http://scoobysworkshop.com/bulkingAndCutting.htm

That defeats the purpose of bulking and cutting. You just have to tweak your diet to match your goals.

This guy is dead on in my opinion:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7dlrupsBWw

I agree with this scooby fan here LOL. He is right and i actually follow scooby's recomendations except the 6 meals a day.

my goals are to be lean and fairly big not huge. If my goals were to get huge i'd follow a higher calorie bulk for sure.

[SwiftyX]

Originally Posted by kris90

I'm not wrong, it's my opinion. Let's test out the theory if you don't believe me?

I only bulk or cut with the inclusion of some "dirty" foods. Doing so otherwise sucks the enjoyment out of your diet. Go to Bodyrecomposition.com look at most of those guys and ask them what they eat normally. You'll see a lot of ramen alot of hot pockets a lot of "dirty".... doesn't matter.

[kris90]

I just tend to agree with this scooby lad. I think he has a great point by saying you don't need to eat like a pig to bulk up and gain muscle. To me, it just seems silly dirty bulking, ya, you can gain the muscle, but have fun losing the fat. You can gain muscle with minimal fat, so why not do that? It's just my opinion and what I believe.

[lauhpurush]

Originally Posted by kris90

I just tend to agree with this scooby lad. I think he has a great point by saying you don't need to eat like a pig to bulk up and gain muscle. To me, it just seems silly dirty bulking, ya, you can gain the muscle, but have fun losing the fat. You can gain muscle with minimal fat, so why not do that? It's just my opinion and what I believe.

1.clean bulk is not possible for everyone..people who are really busy or have lesser time to devote to their nutrition have to depend on a so called 'dirty bulk'.

2. People around me have observed great results while staying on a 'eat anything during a bulk" diet while getting their macros right.

3. It all depends on genetics. A dirty diet might work well for some and might not for others.
hence no point in saying " SO WHY NOT DO THAT"....

to each his own..

u do a clean bulk and let others do what they want to do...

[bb.wolf]

I've lost the last 20 pounds doing a combination of both. 5 days clean. 2 days i might eat dirty here and there but manage to hit my macros. not much difference but clean foods do seem to be more filling.

[beerbaron105]

so if i count the calories i eat while at mcdonalds does that mean i am clean bulking? Since i am keeping track of calories? fail logic is fail.

3000 dirty cals = 3000 clean cals granted your macros are the same!

[2Dos]

Im doing a cleanish bulk.

Basically just eating clean, but not minding if I eat food I wouldn't eat on a cut. Besides, as long as i've got my requirements im set.

If you are putting on too much weight/fat, then reduce your calories. Although I would like to stay lean all year around negating the need to go through numerous cut/bulk schemes.. therefore eating slightly over maintenance and requiring a great deal of patience.

[VENOMsK8r]

Originally Posted by kris90

I know the difference. My whole point is just that, why do a dirty bulk, when you can gain muscle just as fast with a clean bulk, and then you won't need to cut out any fat? It's retarded in my opinion.

Well some people just can't control what they eat. Of course someone will have the urge to eat a slice of pizza which turns out to almost the whole box.

[Simmo0508]

Originally Posted by VENOMsK8r

Well some people just can't control what they eat. Of course someone will have the urge to eat a slice of pizza which turns out to almost the whole box.

lol This is true.


Anyway dirty bulking is retarded, i agree with Kris. It defeats the whole purpose of why we do this in the first place - to live healthier and reap the rewards of hard work.

It was fun eating a ton of crap when you were younger, but when you get older things change, your body changes, your life changes, and you generally take much greater care of yourself.

When it comes to bulking in general though, the top guys usually just increase the portion sizes of the normal healthy foods we eat day in day out. So the caloric surplus is there, the macros are shifted around a bit, but the food itself is basically the same.

(and no, i'm not referring to examples like those pictures with Priest feasting on a roast chicken in his kitchen with his huge beer belly, or Cutler with his double sized jaw).

You'll find that the main proponents for unhealthy living simply find ways to justify their actions via any means necessary. It's their defense mechanism to make themselves feel validated for the things they do. It's similar to a drug addiction, in the way that they view certain food. They've "gotta" have it, kinda thing. They'll have that urge for the entire pizza. The urge to eat all these junk food meals frequently. Everybody knows it isn't good for you, but they still do it anyway, but find ways in order to make it seem warranted and ok.

When you enter the bodybuilding game, one of the first things you learn is that what you wanna eat and what you can eat (in order to reach your goal) don't always correlate. Food is simply the vehicle to your goal, nothing more. A treat now and then, sure, we all have our weaknesses, but thinking that that sort of thing is perfectly normal on a consistent basis in a lifestyle that's meant to be healthy, is retarded like i said. Do it right or don't do it at all.

[cpursx]

Originally Posted by kris90

Yes, but with a clean bulk, you're generally following a specific diet. You'll probably be consuming more fiber, protein, and healthy fats. These are going to fill you up a lot more than sugary carbs, and trans fat/processed foods. So by choosing the clean bulk, you probably won't NEED to consume as many calories to be full as with a dirty bulk. Thus, you will minimize unwanted fat with a clean bulk and still gain the same amount of muscle.

There are 2 definitions of the "clean vs. dirty" bulk.

1.
clean-eating only 300-500cals over maint
dirty-eating everything in your path and then some

2.
clean-eating "clean" foods
dirty-eating "dirty" foods

A bulk can clean/dirty in both or either of the definition.

[MaxxBot]

The whole "a calorie is a calorie" thing isn't true, here's some proof.

http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/...aneating_1.htm

[BaFtub]

Phucking balls a Calorie is a god damn calorie.

I did a 16+ week contest prep following Macros to a T and whatever I saw fit inside them, and guess what happened? Oh teh noes I wonder?!

Listen to Lyle McDonald and not these brotifical people. *Awaits Alan, Spokes, Wavelength,*

[SwiftyX]

Originally Posted by MaxxBot

The whole "a calorie is a calorie" thing isn't true, here's some proof.

http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/...aneating_1.htm

John Berardi is proof of nothing except that it is possible to jump to a ton of bull**** conclusions. Don't eat teh carbz and teh fatz at the same time, you'll catch teh fat.

[hankst]

Originally Posted by kris90

Explain? Because I think I'm right.

If dead animals could scream it would be kinda loud around here; with all the beatings the dead horse has to take and all.

OP:
Eating dirty does not make you fat, excess calories do. Do some research on the board, I have discussed this about 100 times and won't bother to do it again.

(I am talking about body composition, not health)

[Simmo0508]

A calorie is not a calorie.

The body treats different foods in different ways, not just equally based on it's original caloric content. Things aren't that simplistic.


*brb, eating 4000cals worth of olive oil because a calorie is just a calorie* lol :P

[wwong]

To find the answer, start off with reading the stickies in this section, specifically under The Best of Threads - "Time to Debunk Bodybuilding Nutrition Myths", "Good Carbs vs. Bad Carbs ", "The only difference between a "CLEAN" and "DIRTY" food is... ".

Then for more reading related to the topic, search with keyword "Clean" posted by Alan Aragon, his answers are more science and research based, which imo is much better than bro science.

Been reading here long enough but first time posting so can't post links...

[Money Shot]

here we go again

[RealMenDeadLift]

Originally Posted by Simmo0508

A calorie is not a calorie.

The body treats different foods in different ways, not just equally based on it's original caloric content. Things aren't that simplistic.


*brb, eating 4000cals worth of olive oil because a calorie is just a calorie* lol :P

How many times have people stated that basic requirements are essential? No one claims you can eat 4000 calories worth olive oil and get results. No one means what you suggest when they say a calorie is a calorie. You have possibly the worst reading comprehension I have ever seen.

[SwiftyX]

Originally Posted by Simmo0508

A calorie is not a calorie.
The body treats different foods in different ways, not just equally based on it's original caloric content. Things aren't that simplistic.

Bray GA et. al. Hormonal Responses to a Fast-Food Meal Compared with Nutritionally Comparable Meals of Different Composition. Ann Nutr Metab. 2007 May 29;51(2):163-171

[hooked4life]

Originally Posted by Simmo0508

A calorie is not a calorie.

The body treats different foods in different ways, not just equally based on it's original caloric content. Things aren't that simplistic.


*brb, eating 4000cals worth of olive oil because a calorie is just a calorie* lol :P

You are a very dishonest man.

Either that or you have the memory of a goldfish.

[RealMenDeadLift]

Originally Posted by hooked4life

You are a very dishonest man.

Either that or you have the memory of a goldfish.

my assumption is the latter

[Problem]

Originally Posted by hooked4life

You are a very dishonest man.

Either that or you have the memory of a goldfish.

He's being sarcastic I guess.

[RealMenDeadLift]

Originally Posted by Problem

He's being sarcastic I guess.

hooked wasn't suggesting that he may actually be doing that

[kris90]

Originally Posted by Simmo0508

*brb, eating 4000cals worth of olive oil because a calorie is just a calorie* lol :P

He's so right tho! By saying a calorie is a calorie, then we can eat just one type of food to get our daily calories.

There are calories from proteins, calories from carbs, calories from fat. How can you compare protein calories with carb calories or fat calories? They are different sources of calories. Why don't I just go on a diet of pure protein then? That obviously doesn't make sense, because a calorie is NOT a calorie.

[Vietgoboi]

Originally Posted by Simmo0508

A calorie is not a calorie.

The body treats different foods in different ways, not just equally based on it's original caloric content. Things aren't that simplistic.


*brb, eating 4000cals worth of olive oil because a calorie is just a calorie* lol :P

Seriouly, everyone been through this, no one gonna eat all their calories from one macronutrients.

Originally Posted by kris90

He's so right tho! By saying a calorie is a calorie, then we can eat just one type of food to get our daily calories.

There are calories from proteins, calories from carbs, calories from fat. How can you compare protein calories with carb calories or fat calories? They are different sources of calories. Why don't I just go on a diet of pure protein then? That obviously doesn't make sense, because a calorie is NOT a calorie.

[RealMenDeadLift]

Originally Posted by kris90

He's so right tho! By saying a calorie is a calorie, then we can eat just one type of food to get our daily calories.

There are calories from proteins, calories from carbs, calories from fat. How can you compare protein calories with carb calories or fat calories? They are different sources of calories. Why don't I just go on a diet of pure protein then? That obviously doesn't make sense, because a calorie is NOT a calorie.

A calorie is a unit of energy, nothing more

[Chicago1287]

Originally Posted by kris90

He's so right tho! By saying a calorie is a calorie, then we can eat just one type of food to get our daily calories.

There are calories from proteins, calories from carbs, calories from fat. How can you compare protein calories with carb calories or fat calories? They are different sources of calories. Why don't I just go on a diet of pure protein then? That obviously doesn't make sense, because a calorie is NOT a calorie.

I'm pretty sure no one is saying that. Is it not true that excess calories = weight gain? If it is, then answer this question. If you're goal was to reach 200g of protein in a day plus a 1000 calorie surplus...would a surplus of 1000 calories that come from a burger be different than a surplus of 1000 calories than a healthy meal (if you already reached your protein intake goal) in terms of weight gain?

[RealMenDeadLift]

Originally Posted by kris90

Based on this thread is what I'm saying :P

what thread are you looking at? there are plenty of people with excellent physiques right in this very thread that agree with me

[kris90]

Originally Posted by Chicago1287

I'm pretty sure no one is saying that. Is it not true that excess calories = weight gain? If it is, then answer this question. If you're goal was to reach 200g of protein in a day plus a 1000 calorie surplus...would a surplus of 1000 calories that come from a burger be different than a surplus of 1000 calories than a healthy meal (if you already reached your protein intake goal) in terms of weight gain?

My point is you don't need 1000 calorie surplus. 500 calorie surplus is more safe, and if your on a dirty bulk, how will you know your 1000 over? Someone said you don't count calories on a dirty bulk which means your likely to over eat.

Someone else said the more you eat, the more muscle you'll gain, even if you're gaining more fat. This is NOT true. Your muscles only require a certain amount of protein or carbs or fats to feed them. You can't feed your muscles any more after a certain point. Why do you think high protein diets long-term can cause kidney problems? If your a small guy and your eating obsurd amounts of protein, you're likely going to be wasting a lot. People think the more you eat the better it is for your muscles. NO! You can only feed your muscles so much, so once you reach that point, why continue to eat? There's no need to, this is going to cause you to gain excess fat, which is ****ing stupid! Excess food goes to waste!