should I struggle like crazy or take out school loans?

[Tech2TheLimit]

Right now I am about $4k in debt. I just went back to school this semester after a year and a half an am considered a junior. I'm paying my tuition and hardly able to make it, have about $20/week to spend on other stuff besides bills which doesn't get you far in New York. I don't really get financial aid because of something with my parents making too much money (mom only makes $46k) but last time I got about $250 from aid. That doesn't go very far. I was thinking about taking out loans each semester rather than killing myself working so much to pay for this. I would probably be about $20k in debt by the time I graduate. That doesn't seem too bad and I'm an accounting major so I should be able to start paying it off fairly quickly after college. Do you guys think it's worth it to take out loans and do this instead of paying for it each semester?

[Tech2TheLimit]

Bump

[Puresweat]

Get the loans brah

[LiftHeavy85]

wait till your 23 and then redo your fafsa since you wont have to put your parents information down. I get back like 2-3k every semester...helps a ton.

[MochaMadness]

I'm not sure about over there, but some schools offer an installment program where you pay 50% right away then 25% every 1 1/2 months. You should check your school out. I would advice that you struggle. I have worked with college loans and they pack on a lot of interest over the years. Maybe get a part-time job or do odd jobs to earn a little extra.

[Tech2TheLimit]

Originally Posted by LiftHeavy85

wait till your 23 and then redo your fafsa since you wont have to put your parents information down. I get back like 2-3k every semester...helps a ton.

Even if I live with my mom I don't put her down? My bday is in July and that's past the deadline I believe so would I still not put her down since I'll be 23 when next fall semester begins?

Originally Posted by MochaMadness

I'm not sure about over there, but some schools offer an installment program where you pay 50% right away then 25% every 1 1/2 months. You should check your school out. I would advice that you struggle. I have worked with college loans and they pack on a lot of interest over the years. Maybe get a part-time job or do odd jobs to earn a little extra.

My school has where you can pay in 50/50 installments but its very hard on my wage. I do work part time, about 30 hours a week.

[TheAdlerian]

Originally Posted by Tech2TheLimit

Right now I am about $4k in debt. I just went back to school this semester after a year and a half an am considered a junior. I'm paying my tuition and hardly able to make it, have about $20/week to spend on other stuff besides bills which doesn't get you far in New York. I don't really get financial aid because of something with my parents making too much money (mom only makes $46k) but last time I got about $250 from aid. That doesn't go very far. I was thinking about taking out loans each semester rather than killing myself working so much to pay for this. I would probably be about $20k in debt by the time I graduate. That doesn't seem too bad and I'm an accounting major so I should be able to start paying it off fairly quickly after college. Do you guys think it's worth it to take out loans and do this instead of paying for it each semester?

This is serious business and I have lots of advice, based on mind-numbing experience.

I had several options I could have taken for college. I finsihed high school in 1985 and did so in a fairly rural area. The area I grew up in had many nice people who were polite, helpful, and very hard working, but not a lot of people my parents' age had gone to school, so I, and most of my friends, were completely on our own about picking a career path in school. There was no internet and just a few books in the library about colleges, just what certain professions did, etc.

I was very good at:

1. Art.
2. Logical discussion (Lawyer type stuff).
3. Psychology. Most guys I grew up with, especially tough ones, would come to me with problems and questions because they knew I was smart, tough, and not gay. I enjoyed helping them out too.

So, I was talked out of Art by my parents and guidance counselor, all of which thought that "art" is some kind of nonsense. Meanwhile, my wife is a graphic designer and she makes about 100k a year, for drawing pictures on a computer. Anyway, I got a BA in Political Science and Psych.

Note: At the BA level these are degrees only, and have almost no earning power. I did not know that!

Masters: I got an MBA in Healthcare and a Masters in psych.

Doctorate: I earned that in psych.

So, I have three grad degrees, and two BAs.

Sounds cool, right?

Wrong.

I had to get loans to achive these degrees because I SCREWED myself from the beginning. Here's why.

1. My BA's had no earning potential. There's no real job being a "Political Scientist" and having a BA in psych, even today, will get you a 20 to 25K job.

2. So, I needed advanced degrees to have the hope of earning any kind of living. I could not pay for said degrees because I was in a very low wage professional job. So, I had to take out loans.

3. With a Masters in psych I was now able to make more, around 35 to 40, in a city. So I had to move, but the cost of city living ate into the salary. So, I figured I'd go for the gold, and get a doctorate.

4. A doctorate is about 80k in fees. If you check, you'll find that there's little employment for psychs because agencies no longer really need them due to psychiatrists pushing pills. It's hard to start your own practice because the average American does not like to discuss problems because it makes them feel "beta," was we say here.

So, in attempting to get somewhere in a difficult field, I racked up MASSIVE student loan bills, as did anyone in my shoes. I was resigned to the idea that I'd die with this debt, and F everyone, because I was helping poor people and had saved lives and all my clients liked me, so too bad. But creditors didn't care and I'd end up on the phone saying crap like "You know what, I could die any minute. I'm not afraid of you and I own nothing, and nothing can't be taken away."

Then, like last year, the US government started the STUDENT LOAN FORGIVENESS ACT, with a special program for public servants (anyone who works for a non-profit, which I always have). The Public Service Forgiveness Act, checks your income, determines a fair months price, and you pay 122 payments for ten years, and your loan is forgiven. So, on like 170k, I'll pay 40!

That saved my ass!

I would love to shake the hand of the person who came up with the idea.

Moral of The Story:

If you're getting a degree, make sure that it pays enough to justify the expense, and will allow you to pay loans off quickly once you get a STARTING level job. If the degree does not justify the expense and you still want it, then take the extra time to work and save for the classes. Once you're on your own and need your salary live off of, you can't afford debt which goes on on for decades, or your whole life.

[Better Unborn]

School loans are an amazing f#cking deal.

[Tech2TheLimit]

Originally Posted by TheAdlerian

This is serious business and I have lots of advice, based on mind-numbing experience.

I had several options I could have taken for college. I finsihed high school in 1985 and did so in a fairly rural area. The area I grew up in had many nice people who were polite, helpful, and very hard working, but not a lot of people my parents' age had gone to school, so I, and most of my friends, were completely on our own about picking a career path in school. There was no internet and just a few books in the library about colleges, just what certain professions did, etc.

I was very good at:

1. Art.
2. Logical discussion (Lawyer type stuff).
3. Psychology. Most guys I grew up with, especially tough ones, would come to me with problems and questions because they knew I was smart, tough, and not gay. I enjoyed helping them out too.

So, I was talked out of Art by my parents and guidance counselor, all of which thought that "art" is some kind of nonsense. Meanwhile, my wife is a graphic designer and she makes about 100k a year, for drawing pictures on a computer. Anyway, I got a BA in Political Science and Psych.

Note: At the BA level these are degrees only, and have almost no earning power. I did not know that!

Masters: I got an MBA in Healthcare and a Masters in psych.

Doctorate: I earned that in psych.

So, I have three grad degrees, and two BAs.

Sounds cool, right?

Wrong.

I had to get loans to achive these degrees because I SCREWED myself from the beginning. Here's why.

1. My BA's had no earning potential. There's no real job being a "Political Scientist" and having a BA in psych, even today, will get you a 20 to 25K job.

2. So, I needed advanced degrees to have the hope of earning any kind of living. I could not pay for said degrees because I was in a very low wage professional job. So, I had to take out loans.

3. With a Masters in psych I was now able to make more, around 35 to 40, in a city. So I had to move, but the cost of city living ate into the salary. So, I figured I'd go for the gold, and get a doctorate.

4. A doctorate is about 80k in fees. If you check, you'll find that there's little employment for psychs because agencies no longer really need them due to psychiatrists pushing pills. It's hard to start your own practice because the average American does not like to discuss problems because it makes them feel "beta," was we say here.

So, in attempting to get somewhere in a difficult field, I racked up MASSIVE student loan bills, as did anyone in my shoes. I was resigned to the idea that I'd die with this debt, and F everyone, because I was helping poor people and had saved lives and all my clients liked me, so too bad. But creditors didn't care and I'd end up on the phone saying crap like "You know what, I could die any minute. I'm not afraid of you and I own nothing, and nothing can't be taken away."

Then, like last year, the US government started the STUDENT LOAN FORGIVENESS ACT, with a special program for public servants (anyone who works for a non-profit, which I always have). The Public Service Forgiveness Act, checks your income, determines a fair months price, and you pay 122 payments for ten years, and your loan is forgiven. So, on like 170k, I'll pay 40!

That saved my ass!

I would love to shake the hand of the person who came up with the idea.

Moral of The Story:

If you're getting a degree, make sure that it pays enough to justify the expense, and will allow you to pay loans off quickly once you get a STARTING level job. If the degree does not justify the expense and you still want it, then take the extra time to work and save for the classes. Once you're on your own and need your salary live off of, you can't afford debt which goes on on for decades, or your whole life.

Wow sounds like you've been through a lot. I was on the same track then switched to accounting. It will take a bit longer to graduate but will get me a decent living. I think with $20k in debt I'd be able to manage that. I'm planning on going for my CPA, figure by 25-26 I'll be one and set. It would be nice not having loans though that's why I'm torn

[TheAdlerian]

Originally Posted by Tech2TheLimit

Wow sounds like you've been through a lot. I was on the same track then switched to accounting. It will take a bit longer to graduate but will get me a decent living. I think with $20k in debt I'd be able to manage that. I'm planning on going for my CPA, figure by 25-26 I'll be one and set. It would be nice not having loans though that's why I'm torn

Dude, with a CPA, you'll be paying that back in no time. Plus, will the demand for CPA/accountants ever go down?

Not unless we have a barter system Communist revolution.

And, yes, I have been through a lot. Much of it was about being a smart guy with little earning potential and a drive to be excellent at what I chose to do. In spite of all the negative financial stuff, I've had an amazing amount of experience working with different types of people in the most heinous situations. I've also never done anything dishonest and bad to another person in my career, so it feels good man.

However, at times I wish I had chosen a more comfortable path were I could have had a fun and easy life. So I recommend that unless you're on some warrior path, pick a job that will allow to have good wages and some fun if possible.

[juju_BEAN]

Originally Posted by TheAdlerian

This is serious business and I have lots of advice, based on mind-numbing experience.

I had several options I could have taken for college. I finsihed high school in 1985 and did so in a fairly rural area. The area I grew up in had many nice people who were polite, helpful, and very hard working, but not a lot of people my parents' age had gone to school, so I, and most of my friends, were completely on our own about picking a career path in school. There was no internet and just a few books in the library about colleges, just what certain professions did, etc.

I was very good at:

1. Art.
2. Logical discussion (Lawyer type stuff).
3. Psychology. Most guys I grew up with, especially tough ones, would come to me with problems and questions because they knew I was smart, tough, and not gay. I enjoyed helping them out too.

So, I was talked out of Art by my parents and guidance counselor, all of which thought that "art" is some kind of nonsense. Meanwhile, my wife is a graphic designer and she makes about 100k a year, for drawing pictures on a computer. Anyway, I got a BA in Political Science and Psych.

Note: At the BA level these are degrees only, and have almost no earning power. I did not know that!

Masters: I got an MBA in Healthcare and a Masters in psych.

Doctorate: I earned that in psych.

So, I have three grad degrees, and two BAs.

Sounds cool, right?

Wrong.

I had to get loans to achive these degrees because I SCREWED myself from the beginning. Here's why.

1. My BA's had no earning potential. There's no real job being a "Political Scientist" and having a BA in psych, even today, will get you a 20 to 25K job.

2. So, I needed advanced degrees to have the hope of earning any kind of living. I could not pay for said degrees because I was in a very low wage professional job. So, I had to take out loans.

3. With a Masters in psych I was now able to make more, around 35 to 40, in a city. So I had to move, but the cost of city living ate into the salary. So, I figured I'd go for the gold, and get a doctorate.

4. A doctorate is about 80k in fees. If you check, you'll find that there's little employment for psychs because agencies no longer really need them due to psychiatrists pushing pills. It's hard to start your own practice because the average American does not like to discuss problems because it makes them feel "beta," was we say here.

So, in attempting to get somewhere in a difficult field, I racked up MASSIVE student loan bills, as did anyone in my shoes. I was resigned to the idea that I'd die with this debt, and F everyone, because I was helping poor people and had saved lives and all my clients liked me, so too bad. But creditors didn't care and I'd end up on the phone saying crap like "You know what, I could die any minute. I'm not afraid of you and I own nothing, and nothing can't be taken away."

Then, like last year, the US government started the STUDENT LOAN FORGIVENESS ACT, with a special program for public servants (anyone who works for a non-profit, which I always have). The Public Service Forgiveness Act, checks your income, determines a fair months price, and you pay 122 payments for ten years, and your loan is forgiven. So, on like 170k, I'll pay 40!

That saved my ass!

I would love to shake the hand of the person who came up with the idea.

Moral of The Story:

If you're getting a degree, make sure that it pays enough to justify the expense, and will allow you to pay loans off quickly once you get a STARTING level job. If the degree does not justify the expense and you still want it, then take the extra time to work and save for the classes. Once you're on your own and need your salary live off of, you can't afford debt which goes on on for decades, or your whole life.

how the **** did you manage that with women, going out, pay bills, and having a social life? Seems like you had your hands full for such a long time.

but imo, only take the loan if you are getting into a field where there is a big pay out in the career of choice. So you'll actually be able to pay it off...

or you could just flee the country lol

[j_to_the]

Originally Posted by Better Unborn

School loans are an amazing f#cking deal.

^ This.

20k isn't sh!t brah...

[TheAdlerian]

Originally Posted by juju_BEAN

how the **** did you manage that with women, going out, pay bills, and having a social life? Seems like you had your hands full for such a long time.

but imo, only take the loan if you are getting into a field where there is a big pay out in the career of choice. So you'll actually be able to pay it off...

or you could just flee the country lol

And, I worked out every day on top of it all. My only failure was when I started working for the prison system, which was so depressing and stressful that I gained thirty pounds. It got rid of that by quitting and then going back to the same eating and workout routine i had in my twenties.

Anyway, I'm kind of an oddity. If I read something I'm interested in I can remember most of the details for decades, and the same goes for movies, TV shows, songs. I remember lots of crap I'd rather not. So, I'd study for a few hours a day, and then go and do whatever I wanted to. However, I'd never attempt to cram for an exam because my brain doesn't work that way. I have to completely learn it and do so on a daily basis, then the info becomes second nature. Plus, I was working in psych as I got these degrees, so it's like learning a language in a foreign country, you're in it up to your neck.

I would relieve my stress through working out, drinking (not too much), and girlfriends. Sadly, I'm sure I ruined a few relationships which could have become friendships because I wasn't too happy if I wasn't getting support from girlfriends when I was exhausted or it seemed like it would never end. That's all for the best though, as of now, but it was unpleasant at the time.

Time Saver:

Once Dragon Naturally Speaking (a voice recognition program) came out, I did all of my papers by dictating them. That was on a much slower computer than we have today, and it worked well. I could be totally exhausted and "write" as fast as I can talk, which is pretty fast.

Flee the Country:

Thought of it!

My wife is from Eastern Europe and I now have citizenship through her. I was ready to go, trust me.

[DedicatedToLift]

Look into loans from the school/government, I'm not exactly sure though. My parents took out a loan for my brother and I, and they got quite a bit of money that is INTEREST FREE. Also, the loan doesn't have to be paid back until 6 months out of college, so you'll be able to get a job and pay it off.

[bigdan]

Originally Posted by TheAdlerian

If you're getting a degree, make sure that it pays enough to justify the expense, and will allow you to pay loans off quickly once you get a STARTING level job. If the degree does not justify the expense and you still want it, then take the extra time to work and save for the classes. Once you're on your own and need your salary live off of, you can't afford debt which goes on on for decades, or your whole life.

Great advice. I think it's important to have a solid idea of not only what you want to do, but what you realistically expect to make.

Debt is to be avoided if possible(in these cases, I'm not talking about leverage), but in the pursuit of an education often times it's unavoidable. If you can get the subsidized loans I would take them because the interest doesn't accrue while you are in school.

[TheAdlerian]

Originally Posted by bigdan

Great advice. I think it's important to have a solid idea of not only what you want to do, but what you realistically expect to make.

Debt is to be avoided if possible(in these cases, I'm not talking about leverage), but in the pursuit of an education often times it's unavoidable. If you can get the subsidized loans I would take them because the interest doesn't accrue while you are in school.

What's great about today is the internet. You can log onto something like careerbuilder and see exactly whose jobs pay and in what part of the country. That would have been silly science fiction when I was a guy in college.

I've also suggested that people I know look at IT certs like Cisco related stuff. You do not need college, just the cert and you start at 70k. I know some young guys in Philly how have done this, like a room full, and was amazed at the wages and upward mobility.

On a personal note, I had to summon all of my powers to avoid comparing my situation to theirs. Good luck to them though.