Will Power Cleans add mass to Shoulders?

[rhino1964]

Hi, folks. I'm 45, been working out since March this year.

My shoulders are getting shaped, with a decent cap but I would like to add more mass. Most pressing movements irritate my left front delt, but pulling movements are okay.

Would adding power cleans help increase shoulder size? I'm doing Db laterals, bent over DB laterals, as well as heavy pulling movements like rack pulls, t-bar rows, pull-ups, hammer strength high & low rows, one arm DB rows, etc. (which are primarily back exercises but must involve the delts to some degree).

The result is that my front delts are underdeveloped due to pain during pressing. Will Power Cleans help at least a little?

As for the shoulder pain, I've opted for therapy rather than surgery. The only pressing movement I can go really heavy on is Hammer Strength Decline Presses. For some reason the angle is right and I can happily press as much as I want on that baby. I can do dips as well without pain.

Thanks for your sage wisdom....

[GnomusMaximus]

My guess is yes, plus they're good for your soul. Sort of like DL's and squats.

[rhino1964]

Originally Posted by GnomusMaximus

My guess is yes, plus they're good for your soul. Sort of like DL's and squats.

For the soul too? Wow, so many benefits!

Say, that's a rather big rock....

[GnomusMaximus]

Originally Posted by rhino1964

Say, that's a rather big rock....

Thanks, was just playing around on a beach at a Loch in Scotland and the wife took a few pics. If I remember right that one had some good hand holds.

[liegelord]

I think they are good for overall shoulder strength and stability. Two points though,

1. You may still experience pain in the shoulder when you receive the bar, especially if you don't receive it correctly. Make sure you receive it correctly on the front delts and your elbows are high, your upper arm should be parallel to the floor.

2. Don't start with power cleans, do the full squat clean. When you're proficient at squat cleans, then, if you want, start doing power cleans.

[gbg]

Originally Posted by liegelord

I think they are good for overall shoulder strength and stability. Two points though,

1. You may still experience pain in the shoulder when you receive the bar, especially if you don't receive it correctly. Make sure you receive it correctly on the front delts and your elbows are high, your upper arm should be parallel to the floor.

2. Don't start with power cleans, do the full squat clean. When you're proficient at squat cleans, then, if you want, start doing power cleans.

Why do you recommend starting with squat cleans?

[liegelord]

Because squat cleans require more strength and stability in the full squat that is not typically built from doing power cleans. If one worked up to doing PC's with say 245, from experience, would not be able to squat clean it without dumping it. The strength needed to correctly receive the bar and stabilize it are not built from PC's.

It develops a really bad habit of only dropping into a 1/4-1/2 squat that's very difficult to break. I did that with snatches, all I did for about a year was power snatches and it took a long time to be able to do squat snatches consistently.

Anyone who can do correct squat cleans can PC, but not always the other way around. Plus the SC allows for more weight to be used.

[gbg]

Originally Posted by liegelord

Because squat cleans require more strength and stability in the full squat that is not typically built from doing power cleans. If one worked up to doing PC's with say 245, from experience, would not be able to squat clean it without dumping it. The strength needed to correctly receive the bar and stabilize it are not built from PC's.

It develops a really bad habit of only dropping into a 1/4-1/2 squat that's very difficult to break. I did that with snatches, all I did for about a year was power snatches and it took a long time to be able to do squat snatches consistently.

Anyone who can do correct squat cleans can PC, but not always the other way around. Plus the SC allows for more weight to be used.

I was taught from power cleans so I could learn the pull correctly then went on to full squat and have no difficulty, of course I'm not pulling heavy numbers(yet)
but I always find this interesting, some people say to start with PC and some say to start with the full lift.

I think it's an individual thing and there is no wrong or write way so much depends on the person and that has to be assessed first.

Since the lifts are so technical starting with a PC makes it easier to understand the individual breakdown put it ball together and you have a technical sound lift.

[sportsfan69]

All excellent ideas, especially the starting with the squat clean. I echo what everyone else said and resoundingly say YES this exercise, done correctly, will help you gain mass. A caveat is that this exercise done incorrectly can mess you up. SOOOO, make sure you get your form correct before you start trying to throw around some heavy weight. Check your ego at the door, get it right, and build that awesome foundation that you want!

[liegelord]

Originally Posted by gbg

I was taught from power cleans so I could learn the pull correctly then went on to full squat and have no difficulty, of course I'm not pulling heavy numbers(yet)
but I always find this interesting, some people say to start with PC and some say to start with the full lift.

I think it's an individual thing and there is no wrong or write way so much depends on the person and that has to be assessed first.

Since the lifts are so technical starting with a PC makes it easier to understand the individual breakdown put it ball together and you have a technical sound lift.

I've heard that also, I think it's better to break the lift down into parts. For example, just do clean pulls to work the 2nd pull if your not good at the 2nd pull. I'm all about the weight in good form though, SC's allow for more weight to be used than PC's.

[Old_Swole]

Originally Posted by GnomusMaximus

Thanks, was just playing around on a beach at a Loch in Scotland and the wife took a few pics. If I remember right that one had some good hand holds.

You know a guy is hardcore when he wears his lifting belt to the lake...uh I mean Loch

[GnomusMaximus]

Originally Posted by Old_Swole

You know a guy is hardcore when he wears his lifting belt to the lake...uh I mean Loch

We had gone to the beach the day before and I saw alll the stones. It was only a few hundred yards from our cottage. I loved it.

That's actually my throwing belt a BB tapered belt with a lever buckle. I didn't want to leave it in my hold luggage because I was worried if it got lost I'd be out of luck so I put it in my carry on. I got searched 4 times because of that thing.

[LWW]

Originally Posted by gbg

Since the lifts are so technical starting with a PC makes it easier to understand the individual breakdown put it ball together and you have a technical sound lift.

..and
it's still hard for most to even jumnp into these and the older one is the harder it's going to be, most coaches, and I'm a firm believer in this, is to start with hangcleans, (powercleans) these teach proper explosive pulling of the bar, starting from the floor is not a great teacher.

...and since shoulder mass/width? is the topic heavy weights are the key there, sometimes getting too concern with perfect tech. takes away from building mass, and squat cleans are not nessesary until you hit weights that are too heavy to catch in the "powerclean" I've found it to be a waste of time (not being a competitive lifter) to practice squatcleans with light weights, better off doing front squats with HEAVY wieghts, these also build width in the upper/back.

..and don't forget the "press" modern day lifters don't have the shoulder mass of the old-timers, cause they don't train "press" anymore.

[gbg]

Originally Posted by LWW

..and
it's still hard for most to even jumnp into these and the older one is the harder it's going to be, most coaches, and I'm a firm believer in this, is to start with hangcleans, (powercleans) these teach proper explosive pulling of the bar, starting from the floor is not a great teacher.

...and since shoulder mass/width? is the topic heavy weights are the key there, sometimes getting too concern with perfect tech. takes away from building mass, and squat cleans are not nessesary until you hit weights that are too heavy to catch in the "powerclean" I've found it to be a waste of time (not being a competitive lifter) to practice squatcleans with light weights, better off doing front squats with HEAVY wieghts, these also build width in the upper/back.

..and don't forget the "press" modern day lifters don't have the shoulder mass of the old-timers, cause they don't train "press" anymore.

That's the way I'm being taught, technique with the full lift it takes much patients when every little thing is watched but I would much rather learn the proper technique with a lighter weight till it becomes a natural move then move on to heavy weight.

The press isn't done anymore because overtime the technique went down hill with arching of the back and pushing through the legs unlike the original.

[redweston]

Just did these for the first time this week and they were awsome, take a lot out of ya, great delt, upper body builder, described in Arnolds book something about, great to give you that all herculn look !

Keeponpumpin-Powerhouse- RED !

[egoatdoor]

Originally Posted by rhino1964

Hi, folks. I'm 45, been working out since March this year.

My shoulders are getting shaped, with a decent cap but I would like to add more mass. Most pressing movements irritate my left front delt, but pulling movements are okay.

Would adding power cleans help increase shoulder size? I'm doing Db laterals, bent over DB laterals, as well as heavy pulling movements like rack pulls, t-bar rows, pull-ups, hammer strength high & low rows, one arm DB rows, etc. (which are primarily back exercises but must involve the delts to some degree).

The result is that my front delts are underdeveloped due to pain during pressing. Will Power Cleans help at least a little?

As for the shoulder pain, I've opted for therapy rather than surgery. The only pressing movement I can go really heavy on is Hammer Strength Decline Presses. For some reason the angle is right and I can happily press as much as I want on that baby. I can do dips as well without pain.

Thanks for your sage wisdom....

Adding them can't hurt from a size and mass perspective as long as your shoulder pain doesn't interfere.

I do suspect you may be doing too much volume from a direct and indirect ( where the shoulders are an assisting muscle such as one chest pressing movements) which may be why they are not growing. When doing the power cleans, I would use it as replacement for an exercise ( such as bent laterals for the rear delts. You've only been training for eight months, so why bother with working the rear delts. Thats for advanced trainers and those who are going to compete. Plus they are getting work indirectly on your rack pulls, pull ups and high rows) rather than adding to all the things you are doing now.

On heavy pressing movements, have you tried Smith Machine Bench Presses with a grip slightly inside the shoulders? I have a permanently damaged rotator cuff, but the Smith Machine Presses are the one type of press I can do going heavy with little shoulder involvement. The bar being on a fixed plane really helps.