Cut is coming along....

[induced_drag]

I started about three weeks ago on a cut. I had 'bulked' up to 210 and felt it was time to cut back a little. I guess I got up to close to 14-15%bf. (from around a start of 11-12% my normal body comp)

My plan was to cut carbs to around 100g/day (although I usually hit 120-130). I shoot for 1.5g protein/lb, but most often get about 1.25g (250g). I also have been shooting for keeping my fat around 50g/day. This has not been all that hard.

I have incorporated two carb re-feeds weekly. Basically I use them as a fun cheat meal post workout. It usually will include a few sodas, a bunch of carbs and a big bowl of icecream for desert!

Being low on carbs has really been tough. I have lost considerable strength and endurance in my upperbody, but surprisingly it has not hurt my leg or deadlift strength. I lost a full 2 reps on my bench and my upper body endurance has fallen to crap! I barely have any in me on my last sets. My workouts have also been a lot harder to recover from.

For this reason I went to a three workout/week from my 4/week I had been doing. I am still lifting as heavy as possible, but I had to cut volume as I just could not seem to finish my workouts. (endurance is crap) This lower volume has allowed me to bump up my deadlift almost 30lbs in three weeks though!

This whole approach has worked pretty good. I am down to 202. I lost 2-3 lbs immediately from the water drop of cutting carbs....the rest has come off steadily. (despite a pretty good Halloween blowout and going off the wagon for a good two days )

My abs are starting to poke through again...but will be the last thing to show. (very stubborn midsection) I can see a good deal of difference in my legs though. My skinfold is down almost 2mm and there is a noticeable increase in definition. I took a pic to compare. No ab pics yet.....just not there yet. .

old leg pic


Yesterday....taken cold



Mentally this is hard because you feel like you are getting "small" as the weight drops. I know at some point I will feel like I start to look bigger....but the strength loss and lack of endurance is hard to deal with. Therefore, I am not sure how much longer I am going to continue 'cutting'. Maybe I will save all this aggravation for spring time and try to stay 11-12% and eat big and get stronger????

What do you guys think? Do you suffer the same depressed type feelings when cutting? It has been very hard working out and I am definetly not enjoying myself. Every workout feels like a chore where I used to look forward to them....

[BuckSpin]

Sorry, man, but I'm doing the same thing (cutting) for almost 5 weeks but with a different approach. Eating approx. 3000 cals/day on a 40/40/20 split (so that would be approximately 300g of protein & carbs, 67g fat (mid-high teens sat).....and I'm crushing the iron. Setting PRs across the board. My recovery time is off the charts, my training never heavier, metabolism is an inferno, sleeping great, all other "aspects" of life awesome.....and I've lost 8lbs in 4 weeks without doing any cardio.

The mirror, my & the Missus eyes all say I look like I have lost a lot more than just over 3% of my bodyweight. Its wild...

I do get "sluggish" at the end of the day from front loading the carbs, and 1st thing upon waking I am hurtin', but aside from that its been great. I think I'm actually in a "sweet spot" of a growth cycle right now, so I'm just gonna ride this wave until I beach myself.

[Old-Time-Lifter]

Buck,

What's your diet looking like? I really need to start cutting soon, but I'm reluctant to start until I hit a couple of strength goals that I'm very close to......... I'm looking at starting up right after X-mas as it is, so just curious what you're eating to get your current macro split.

[BuckSpin]

Originally Posted by Old-Time-Lifter

Buck, What's your diet looking like? I really need to start cutting soon, but I'm reluctant to start until I hit a couple of strength goals that I'm very close to......... I'm looking at starting up right after X-mas as it is, so just curious what you're eating to get your current macro split.

Here ya go....

Training Days Plan:

Meal #1: (approx 6am)
Immediately upon waking: 1 scoop protein powder in 1 cup ice water

24oz ice water
"fistful o' pills"
4 whole eggs, scrambed
1/2 cup steel cut oats
1/4 tsp cinnamon
1 tbsp raw honey
1 stevia packet
1 medium grapefruit
22oz black coffee

Meal #2 & #3: (#2 around 9am, #3 post-training (11:00-11:30ish)
The following is divided in 1/2 into 2 meals consumed pre & post WO:

12ozs sweet potato puree
12oz skim milk
12oz ice water
3 scoops vanilla whey protein
10g creatine mono
1/2 tsp cinnamon
1 tbsp non-akalyne cocoa power
2 stevia packets
1 tray ice cubes

Blend & enjoy. Also take 4g L-Arginine pre WO.

Meal #3 & #4: #3 within 60 minutes of post WO, usually around noon, #4 3 hours later)
5-6ozs BSCB
8oz veggies (usually broccoli)
3/4 cup brown rice
4 almonds & 1 walnut

Meal #5: (approx 6pm)
1 6oz FF greek yogurt (this is my treat for the day)
1 stevia packet
1/2 large or 1 small apple
1 scoop protein powder in ice water
4 almonds & 2 walnuts

Meal #6: (right before bed, approx 9pm)
1 cup FF no salt cottage cheese
1 stevia packet
2 tsps non-akalyne cocoa powder
1 tbsp natty PB
2g L-Arginine

Non-Training Days Plan:

Meal #1: (approx 6am)
Same as above but 1st thing upon waking scoop of whey protein is in 12oz skim milk along with 5g creatine mono

Meal #2 & #3: #2 around 9:30-10am, #3 3 hours later)
Same as #3 & #4 above

Meal #4: (approx 3pm)
2 6oz Dannon FF plain yogurts
1 stevia packet
1/2 large or 1 small apple
1 scoop protein powder (in yogurts)
2 almonds & 1 walnut

Meal #5: (approx 6pm)
Same as above

Meal #6: (right before bed, approx 9pm)
Same as above

Plus I drink lots of H2O over the day, and on non-training days I'll have a few mugs of black coffee. Both days are, within 1%, a 40/40/20 split.

I have also got my sodium intake down to 1.5g/day!

Up at 5am, head on pillow around 9pm. Usually train around 9:30-10:30am ish

[induced_drag]

Originally Posted by BuckSpin

Sorry, man, but I'm doing the same thing (cutting) for almost 5 weeks but with a different approach. Eating approx. 3000 cals/day on a 40/40/20 split (so that would be approximately 300g of protein & carbs, 67g fat (mid-high teens sat)......

I am glad to hear you are having such good success. Our diets our similar except for the carbs. It works out to be about 50p/30c/20f breakdown and usually I end up at about 2200 cal/ day.

I dont think I would be successful losing fat with an extra 200g (800cal) of carbs per day. That is very close to where I was when I was on a mild 'bulk'. My activity level has been pretty low lately so I think my daily caloric needs are relatively low. Been doing a bunch of work in front of a computer lately......Only activity is the gym.

I am happy with the progress......Just mentally, I am struggling. Also feeling a little weak and tired takes it's toll on motivation to workout. The carb re-feeds help....but then I still drag the next few days waiting for another.... It has gotten to where I look more forward to eating then working out.

The thing I cant figure out is why it has mainly effected my upper body strength, yet my lower body has actually gone up a little? ....Could this be a combination of carb depletion causing the loss of strength in my upper body, but the reduced volume allowing my squat and deadlift to actually get stronger? (Endurance is down on both though)

[UncleSpam81st]

nice tear drop on the quad, very tough to make so great job!! do you use glutamine by chance? if not try adding with protien it helps in recovery for me anyways?

[ironwill2008]

Originally Posted by induced_drag

What do you guys think? Do you suffer the same depressed type feelings when cutting? It has been very hard working out and I am definetly not enjoying myself. Every workout feels like a chore where I used to look forward to them....

Sure, it can mess with your mind to watch your weight drop. After all, you've busted your hump for 'X' number of months to add muscle. But that's the reason why we take such a calculated and disciplined approach to cutting; drop the fat, keep the maximum amount of lean mass intact.

Your quads are getting cut, usually a tough place to see definition. Stay the course if that's your decision; you're certainly making progress. How long to continue cutting? Until you're happy with what the mirror says!

[BuckSpin]

Originally Posted by induced_drag

The thing I cant figure out is why it has mainly effected my upper body strength, yet my lower body has actually gone up a little? ....Could this be a combination of carb depletion causing the loss of strength in my upper body, but the reduced volume allowing my squat and deadlift to actually get stronger? (Endurance is down on both though)

Think of your muscle bellies as gas tanks. Compare the size of the gas tanks to upper vs lower. Where is there more "fuel" being stored in general? And x2 on volume. I'll bet you use less reps on the big lifts that would utilize those larger "gas tanks".

[Bando]

Originally Posted by BuckSpin

fistful o' pills

LOL, glad I'm not the only one

[BuckSpin]

Originally Posted by Bando

LOL, glad I'm not the only one

Best $1.99 I've spent in a long time.....

[induced_drag]

Originally Posted by UncleSpam81st

nice tear drop on the quad, very tough to make so great job!! do you use glutamine by chance? if not try adding with protien it helps in recovery for me anyways?

Thanks man. Legs are coming back. Enjoying the dividends of my training I did in my 20's. Below is a pic from 14 years ago when I was 22... I am amazed at how quick the muscle can come back as I have only been back working out for 6 months after a decade off. (still got the bird calves though )

Also yes glutamine is a staple of mine.... I noticed increase in soreness and slower recovery as soon as I cut carbs.

Originally Posted by ironwill2008

Sure, it can mess with your mind to watch your weight drop. After all, you've busted your hump for 'X' number of months to add muscle. But that's the reason why we take such a calculated and disciplined approach to cutting; drop the fat, keep the maximum amount of lean mass intact.

You're quads are getting cut, usually a tough place to see definition. Stay the course if that's your decision; you're certainly making progress. How long to continue cutting? Until you're happy with what the mirror says!

Thanks....I am going to stick it out a little longer.....This is the time I wish I had a workout partner to help motivate me and bust on me for being a little b*tch! It is tough sometimes....and I get little support from my wife. God forbid I ever say I am tired...or sore....she just rolls her eyes..

BTW...like the new Avatar....you got a some great quad development! Inspirational to say the least!!!

Originally Posted by BuckSpin

Think of your muscle bellies as gas tanks. Compare the size of the gas tanks to upper vs lower. Where is there more "fuel" being stored in general? And x2 on volume. I'll bet you use less reps on the big lifts that would utilize those larger "gas tanks".

This makes total sense. Never thought of it this way. Truth is....I have never really cut before. In my 20's I did a modified KETO diet which kept me lean....also I was a lot more active then. Now 15 years later.....I am not really wanting to do keto so I am attempting for the first time something more conventional. It works well....but is very hard mentally. I have really enjoyed getting back some strength, so seeing myself loose some of that is tough. I think I just need to say the course for a little while.

[ironwill2008]

Originally Posted by induced_drag

Thanks....I am going to stick it out a little longer.....This is the time I wish I had a workout partner to help motivate me and bust on me for being a little b*tch! It is tough sometimes....and I get little support from my wife. God forbid I ever say I am tired...or sore....she just rolls her eyes..

LOL! I can relate!

BTW...like the new Avatar....you got a some great quad development! Inspirational to say the least!!!

thnx. Consistent work on basic exercises over a long period of time.

[Bando]

Originally Posted by BuckSpin

Best $1.99 I've spent in a long time.....

Amateur! I've got the 2 week pill box

[plmb1]

Originally Posted by induced_drag

I started about three weeks ago on a cut. I had 'bulked' up to 210 and felt it was time to cut back a little. I guess I got up to close to 14-15%bf. (from around a start of 11-12% my normal body comp)

My plan was to cut carbs to around 100g/day (although I usually hit 120-130). I shoot for 1.5g protein/lb, but most often get about 1.25g (250g). I also have been shooting for keeping my fat around 50g/day. This has not been all that hard.

I have incorporated two carb re-feeds weekly. Basically I use them as a fun cheat meal post workout. It usually will include a few sodas, a bunch of carbs and a big bowl of icecream for desert!

Being low on carbs has really been tough. I have lost considerable strength and endurance in my upperbody, but surprisingly it has not hurt my leg or deadlift strength. I lost a full 2 reps on my bench and my upper body endurance has fallen to crap! I barely have any in me on my last sets. My workouts have also been a lot harder to recover from.

For this reason I went to a three workout/week from my 4/week I had been doing. I am still lifting as heavy as possible, but I had to cut volume as I just could not seem to finish my workouts. (endurance is crap) This lower volume has allowed me to bump up my deadlift almost 30lbs in three weeks though!

This whole approach has worked pretty good. I am down to 202. I lost 2-3 lbs immediately from the water drop of cutting carbs....the rest has come off steadily. (despite a pretty good Halloween blowout and going off the wagon for a good two days )

My abs are starting to poke through again...but will be the last thing to show. (very stubborn midsection) I can see a good deal of difference in my legs though. My skinfold is down almost 2mm and there is a noticeable increase in definition. I took a pic to compare. No ab pics yet.....just not there yet. .

old leg pic


Yesterday....taken cold



Mentally this is hard because you feel like you are getting "small" as the weight drops. I know at some point I will feel like I start to look bigger....but the strength loss and lack of endurance is hard to deal with. Therefore, I am not sure how much longer I am going to continue 'cutting'. Maybe I will save all this aggravation for spring time and try to stay 11-12% and eat big and get stronger????

What do you guys think? Do you suffer the same depressed type feelings when cutting? It has been very hard working out and I am definetly not enjoying myself. Every workout feels like a chore where I used to look forward to them....

congrats on your progress thus far.......

If you hit a wall or decide you can't/don't need to stay this course but don't like keto.......have you thought about carb cycling?

You prolly already know about this or something like but just thought I would bring it up just in case.

It's really not much different than what your doing now. Instead of eating the same set low # of carbs every day (I think you said somewhere around a 100) and then refeed......you could eat something like this (just an example of what I did on my last cut...which turned out great.....I got down to 5%...took me about 18 weeks or so):

On carb days I cut my carbs off atleast 4 hours before bedtime..

1st day.leg day (high carb).250 to 300 grams (atleast 200 of that was very clean).
2nd day...chest/tri..(low carb)...75 to 100 grams (all clean)
3rd day.off day.(no carb).(except what you get in your veggies.only green veggies)
4th day..back/bi...(high carb)
5th day...off day..(no carb)
6th day....shoulder/trap...(low carb)
7th day...off day....(no carb)
start over and so on........

^^^^^gives you enough carbs to train your big lifts plus enough carbs to not hit bottom on other sessions and no carbs other than (green veggies) on non-training days when you really don't need them as much..........the only thing about this for me was I could'nt eat dirty carbs and make very good progress like on refeed days on the type your on now...

There are a ton of ways to cycle carbs such as:

7 day cycle...high, low, no, high, no, low, no,.....then start cycle over.......<<<<my fav

3 day cycle...high, low, no.....then start over........worked ok but not as good as 7 day...

4 day cycle...high, low, low, no....then repeat........

Bottom line put your high carb days on your squat and back days and your low carb days on your chest and shoulder days.....

I do very well on carb cycling.....I did very little cardio on this...usually 45 min or so on high carb days only after training legs or back..

By the way........the high, low, no can be in any order.....

Just a thought.

again.....props on your progress so far

[induced_drag]

Originally Posted by plmb1

........If you hit a wall or decide you can't/don't need to stay this course but don't like keto.......have you thought about carb cycling?
...

Thank you! I have read briefly about it in the past, but had never really looked into it. Despite my past experience in the gym, I have never really 'cut' before.

I really need to examine what direction to go in. I know that I am only 3 weeks into this and not enjoying it at all! It makes me almost want to not work out and I have to drag myself in every time. I do enjoy my refeed days quite a bit though.....but not enough to make this whole thing enjoyable.

I am just not sure I could do the zero carb thing though. In my 20's I probably spent close to a year of my life on a modified Keto diet called the Anabolic Diet by Dr Mario DePasquale (sp?). It is zero carb with a 24-36hr super high carb refeed once a week. Basically a pig out fest! All the crap you can eat and all good stuff....high carb high fat!

I made amazing results on it and broke through a 3 year plateau and gained probably 7-8lbs lbm while getting the leanest I have ever gotten. (8% +/- bf) This was over a period of just over a year.

I just dont think I could go that extreme with my diet. I already have a hard time staying on track and find that I just end up eating the same stuff over and over...... (I eat enough 6oz 93/7 ground beef patties to choke a horse )

Plus my eating habits already strain my family life. I have a 5y.o. and 2y.o. and we always eat as a family. I dont want to create fussy eaters or set a bad example by not eating this and that....so I always eat what they eat. I just eat real small portions of the carbs. (sometimes only a bite for show ) If I do have to prepare special meals, (which happens depending on what they are eating) I try not to make a big deal about it. (although my wife usually bit*hes about it )

I just think that zero carb for me would be too disruptive to family life. At least now, with my refeeds, I can plan them so I can take the kids out to eat and everyone enjoys themselves (including me!) I may just see if I can work some more carbs in little by little and find a happy medium where I can still drop some BF, yet I have some more energy. After all.....I am not in any big hurry to loose the weight.

Thanks again for some great info.....I have some thinking to do!

[plmb1]

Originally Posted by induced_drag

Thank you! I have read briefly about it in the past, but had never really looked into it. Despite my past experience in the gym, I have never really 'cut' before.

I really need to examine what direction to go in. I know that I am only 3 weeks into this and not enjoying it at all! It makes me almost want to not work out and I have to drag myself in every time. I do enjoy my refeed days quite a bit though.....but not enough to make this whole thing enjoyable.

I am just not sure I could do the zero carb thing though. In my 20's I probably spent close to a year of my life on a modified Keto diet called the Anabolic Diet by Dr Mario DePasquale (sp?). It is zero carb with a 24-36hr super high carb refeed once a week. Basically a pig out fest! All the crap you can eat and all good stuff....high carb high fat!

I made amazing results on it and broke through a 3 year plateau and gained probably 7-8lbs lbm while getting the leanest I have ever gotten. (8% +/- bf) This was over a period of just over a year.

I just dont think I could go that extreme with my diet. I already have a hard time staying on track and find that I just end up eating the same stuff over and over...... (I eat enough 6oz 93/7 ground beef patties to choke a horse )

Plus my eating habits already strain my family life. I have a 5y.o. and 2y.o. and we always eat as a family. I dont want to create fussy eaters or set a bad example by not eating this and that....so I always eat what they eat. I just eat real small portions of the carbs. (sometimes only a bite for show ) If I do have to prepare special meals, (which happens depending on what they are eating) I try not to make a big deal about it. (although my wife usually bit*hes about it )

I just think that zero carb for me would be too disruptive to family life. At least now, with my refeeds, I can plan them so I can take the kids out to eat and everyone enjoys themselves (including me!) I may just see if I can work some more carbs in little by little and find a happy medium where I can still drop some BF, yet I have some more energy. After all.....I am not in any big hurry to loose the weight.

Thanks again for some great info.....I have some thinking to do!

Your very welcome........I'm sure you'll do great no matter which direction you take...

Good luck...not that you'll need it.

[yakabebe]

Originally Posted by plmb1

congrats on your progress thus far.......

If you hit a wall or decide you can't/don't need to stay this course but don't like keto.......have you thought about carb cycling?

You prolly already know about this or something like but just thought I would bring it up just in case.

It's really not much different than what your doing now. Instead of eating the same set low # of carbs every day (I think you said somewhere around a 100) and then refeed......you could eat something like this (just an example of what I did on my last cut...which turned out great.....I got down to 5%...took me about 18 weeks or so):

On carb days I cut my carbs off atleast 4 hours before bedtime..

1st day.leg day (high carb).250 to 300 grams (atleast 200 of that was very clean).
2nd day...chest/tri..(low carb)...75 to 100 grams (all clean)
3rd day.off day.(no carb).(except what you get in your veggies.only green veggies)
4th day..back/bi...(high carb)
5th day...off day..(no carb)
6th day....shoulder/trap...(low carb)
7th day...off day....(no carb)
start over and so on........

^^^^^gives you enough carbs to train your big lifts plus enough carbs to not hit bottom on other sessions and no carbs other than (green veggies) on non-training days when you really don't need them as much..........the only thing about this for me was I could'nt eat dirty carbs and make very good progress like on refeed days on the type your on now...

There are a ton of ways to cycle carbs such as:

7 day cycle...high, low, no, high, no, low, no,.....then start cycle over.......<<<<my fav

3 day cycle...high, low, no.....then start over........worked ok but not as good as 7 day...

4 day cycle...high, low, low, no....then repeat........

Bottom line put your high carb days on your squat and back days and your low carb days on your chest and shoulder days.....

I do very well on carb cycling.....I did very little cardio on this...usually 45 min or so on high carb days only after training legs or back..

By the way........the high, low, no can be in any order.....

Just a thought.

again.....props on your progress so far

I'm following this keenly. good thread

was wondering what you meant re your carbs when you say "atleast 200 of that was very clean".

"Clean" i get but in the context of a carb free regime whereby the chicken/fish/fat etc content are meticulously monitored but with,....carbs...

.....what do you mean by "clean"?

TIA

[BuckSpin]

That cycling makes my head spin (bad joke)....

I just front load my carbs for the day. I basically take in over 1/3 of the day's carbs by 6am, over 1/2 by 11am & almost 85% by 3pm. I get a lil' hungry by evening & burn thru my meals in about an hour, but thats a good sign my metabolism is firing late in the day. I keep it stoked with meals every 3 hours, plus I still have 2 meals to go in the evening. I know about all the studies/etc that meal timing (to a degree) has no effect on body comp, but I do know my body & I can feel the gears grinding to a halt internally, my face loses color (not pretty when a pasty white boy gets paler) and I feel very sluggish. To each their own....

By bedtime I am typically pretty darn tired, so this tells me that my intra-muscular glycogen is low (good) plus it ensures a good night's ZZZZZZs.

I also train around 9:30, so this ensures that I have tons of carbs to fuel that session.

I'm also a mesomorph, and while I know its naive & foolish to think that I'm a true mesomorph (they are extremely rare) I am starting to believe I'm a pretty decent one based on some of the things I can do with body comp, etc.

And dropped another 1.8lbs this past week

[trans4mation]

Originally Posted by BuckSpin

That cycling makes my head spin (bad joke)....

I just front load my carbs for the day. I basically take in over 1/3 of the day's carbs by 6am, over 1/2 by 11am & almost 85% by 3pm.

This makes sense for you with your current morning workouts but how would this work for you if your workout was at 6:30 p.m. in the evening?

[BuckSpin]

Originally Posted by trans4mation

This makes sense for you with your current morning workouts but how would this work for you if your workout was at 6:30 p.m. in the evening?

I slide my 2 PWO meals to before & after training, sandbag Meal #3 for 60 minutes after & bump Meals #4 & 5 up to #3 & #4. I've done this a few times when RL dictates as much & it keeps my macros the same.

[plmb1]

Originally Posted by yakabebe

I'm following this keenly. good thread

was wondering what you meant re your carbs when you say "atleast 200 of that was very clean".

"Clean" i get but in the context of a carb free regime whereby the chicken/fish/fat etc content are meticulously monitored but with,....carbs...

.....what do you mean by "clean"?

TIA

Hey yak,

when I carb cycle in that manner I eat mostly clean carbs (what I call clean: sweet potatoes, brown rice, raw oats...with very little fruit).

As I am human and have a sweet tooth as big as texas I cheat only on high carb days. When I say cheat I mean I'll have upto 50 grams of carbs from any source I choose mostly pizza (home made so its not to bad) and the like and always right after my training session.

It's worked well for me. I can drop bf faster by not doing this but we all know that faster is not always better. I keep more lbm by dropping it slower.

Hope this helps in some way.

by the way, your looking great these days!

[Bob45]

I've noticed over the years on here some people do great and feel great on very low carbs and some don't. I can't do it. I need at least 150 grams of carbs to get by. If workouts and strength suffer than so does the muscle. If you aren't going to compete than I can't see doing it if you feel lousy. What happens when you get to where you want to be? Eat to feel better and gain the fat back? I'd rather feel strong all the time. Very low carb isn't the only way to do it.

There are so many people that have their diet down on here giving great advice.

[induced_drag]

Originally Posted by Bob45

I've noticed over the years on here some people do great and feel great on very low carbs and some don't. I can't do it. I need at least 150 grams of carbs to get by. If workouts and strength suffer than so does the muscle. If you aren't going to compete than I can't see doing it if you feel lousy. What happens when you get to where you want to be? Eat to feel better and gain the fat back? I'd rather feel strong all the time. Very low carb isn't the only way to do it.

There are so many people that have their diet down on here giving great advice.

I do feel like crap on the low carb.....but I dont know what else I can cut?... I am making sure I get 250 +/- g of protein per day and try to get around 50g of fat.....What else is there to cut other then carbs?

I think when I get to where I want to be, I can maintain just fine. I will probably just add back in carbs for a 40/40/20 split. It will also up my calories by 500-800/ day. Right now I am at 50/30/20. 2200 cals.

I know I am not competing....but I have been trying to put on mass. I just went on a 2 month 'bulk' and I got up to 210 and gained a good deal of lean mass in that time. Probably put on 4-5 lbs of fat too...

Yea.....I know 'bulking' is a controversial topic around here.....but what I have been doing the past 6 months has been working for me. I have no arguments in what I have gained and have managed to stay between 11% BF and top out at max of 15% while I do this.

So when I hit 210....I was pushing right up to my 15% limit where I feel comfortable. I knew I needed to cut back and wanted to try a 'real' cut for once, rather then just making real small changes over months. It has really sucked because I miss my oatmeal and brown rice! They are staples for me.

On the other hand....I have gained a GREAT deal of respect for the true 'bodybuilders' on this site. I have only been cutting for just over 3 weeks and I am bitc*ng like a little girl . Major props to the guys who work down to contest shape! Way tougher much more hardcore then throwing some iron around!

Because I have never really done this before, I was just looking to see if my experiences were normal. (loss of strength and endurance and feeling like dog meat)

[JOHN GARGANI]

INDUCED: you look terrific......

but you should feel sh@#tty on that diet, because 100 carbs a day for a guy that lifts is simply not enough, even on a cut.....


the re-feeds are what's keeping you going, without that, your brain would REALLY crash, literally, because your brain needs carbs also.....


exchange 50 of the protein grams for the carbs, and you will feel better.....

also: look at the conditioning on Buck Spin and look at the carbs he eats, and keep in mind, he can show you old pictures where he was VERY smooth, so, he is not naturally that way.....

[StressMonkey]

Solid progress on the wheels mister. My @ss was dragging about doing legs today. Now I'm heading out the door inspired.

[JOHN GARGANI]

Originally Posted by YAKABEE

"Clean" i get but in the context of a carb free regime whereby the chicken/fish/fat etc content are meticulously monitored but with,....carbs...

.....what do you mean by "clean"?

YAK: like so many other things in Bodybuilding lexicon, "Clean" has to come to be a catch all for several things......

so, for example: a Baked Potato would be "clean" as opposed to French fries.....same potato, different nutritional breakdown ( in this case the fat and salt content and lack of roughage from the skin )


brown rice would be "cleaner" than white rice....

Peas would be "cleaner" than kernel corn.....and so on.......

the relativity of it all is amazing: enhance a salad with buttered croutons, bacon bits and cream dressing, and you have now "dirt-i-fied" it! LOL.....


skip all that, and season a tad with a little balsamic vinegar, and it has suddenly become a "clean" carb! HAHAHA.........

just the way certain words have seemed to go, encompassing more and more meanings....


so, with that in mind, for the bodybuilder, anything, no matter WHICH macro, is "clean" on the basis of saturated fat content, salt content, and/or concentrated caloric content and subsequently, glycemic index rate.


To overdo the point ( which I always do ) plain toasted Almond slivers would be "cleaner" than honey roasted peanuts.....

[Bob45]

Originally Posted by JOHN GARGANI

INDUCED: you look terrific......

but you should feel sh@#tty on that diet, because 100 carbs a day for a guy that lifts is simply not enough, even on a cut.....


the re-feeds are what's keeping you going, without that, your brain would REALLY crash, literally, because your brain needs carbs also.....


exchange 50 of the protein grams for the carbs, and you will feel better.....

also: look at the conditioning on Buck Spin and look at the carbs he eats, and keep in mind, he can show you old pictures where he was VERY smooth, so, he is not naturally that way.....

Hi John. Haven't talked to you in a while. I don't believe he needs that much protein either. That would be a good exchange for more carbs. Then feel better and stick with it long term.

[JOHN GARGANI]

Good to hear from you BOB!!

yep, I don't like the balance of his diet...it is NOT healthy to stay on even a modified Atkins type diet for any length of time......


carbs are often villainized, and unfairly so.....

Plus, you can only force feed the body protein to a certain extent.....

if your protein intake is DOUBLE your carbs, then your body will have to go into a protein burning metabolism, instead of a protein SPARING metabolism......

in such a mode, it is easier for the body to take from it's own stores of protein, when it needs energy, since, it is already in a protein burning mode.....

I try to never let the Carbs go lower than 200.....even in strict diet mode....

[induced_drag]

So you guys think I am being too extreme with trying to keep carbs around 100g/ day? Although I shoot for this, most days I am more likely to get 120-130 range.

I would love to get some more oatmeal back in my diet. (keeps me regular )

Maybe I will switch out a scoop of protein powder (25g) with a 1/2 cup of oatmeal (27g)

I would need to add a full cup to get up to 200g of carbs / day. That would bring my protein down to 200 grams. Exactly 1g / lb body weight. (a little lower then many recommend)

Do you think that is better?

Sorry for the dumb questions.....as I said.....although I have over 10 years training experience, I have never really tried a real 'cut'. Thanks in advance!

[mharrislove]

induced_drag: lookin' good, man. Keep it going!!!