Why doesn't God perform miracles on amputees? - Page 3

neuralshock · 11-07-2009, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AKR

WTF are you smoking? You post like an religious person, then make a comment like you're an atheist, and then, post again like a religious person. Negs if you don't knock it off.

Negs? Do you really take the forum this seriously?

pureboost · 11-07-2009, 12:54 PM

Ya seriously like I give a **** if you neg me lol..

ITT : We are called Trolls for discussing a different view than our own. Congratz. you took me from 0 rep power to... zero rep power

Loochi · 11-07-2009, 01:59 PM

I truely think that back in the day we were out of control and had no fear, so this dude decided to right a book and pretend it came from the sky and he witnessed a higher power. Did this to keep us in control, I don't know if this world would be a better or worse place without religion really.

I'd rather just not believe in the bs and let everyone else believe it lol.

jackal337 · 11-07-2009, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pureboost

Well if they are in heaven then presumably they already love God.

On the sin part... I'm not really sure. I don't know much about this area. I guess it would be possible to sin because wasn't the devil kicked out for sinning?

But then again, if heaven is perfect as we are led to believe then there will be zero temptation to sin in heaven. So YES we would have the free will to sin, but there would be no temptation to actually commit sin.

So there will be no sin in heaven. If that is the case, then why can't God create a sinless world here on Earth? Why does God allow sin to exist on Earth, but not in Heaven?

If free-will to sin is necessary for people on Earth to love God, then why is it not necessary in Heaven? You said that love is not forceful.

Whoda · 11-07-2009, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackal337

So there will be no sin in heaven. If that is the case, then why can't God create a sinless world here on Earth? Why does God allow sin to exist on Earth, but not in Heaven?

If free-will to sin is necessary for people on Earth to love God, then why is it not necessary in Heaven? You said that love is not forceful.

God didnt create sin, he created free choice. God did create a sinless world, but when Satan was cast out of heaven into Earth for rebelling against God, Sin entered the world

Theres free will in Heaven, just like their is free will on earth,except their will be no temptation to sin. Satan made his choices when he was in heaven, to transgress against God, and thus he was cast out of heaven.

You said it yourself, Love is not forceful. If God would have destroyed Satan when he transgressed, than the angels would "love" God out of fear of being annihilated.

Weightaholic · 11-07-2009, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J-Bol

Life is cruel. If you read and understood the temptation of Christ, you would understand who reigns in our world.

Well played. Anyone who doesn't believe it doesn't understand.

Nice.

JAGERBOY · 11-07-2009, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whoda

God didnt create sin, he created free choice. God did create a sinless world, but when Satan was cast out of heaven into Earth for rebelling against God, Sin entered the world

lol

Skunk · 11-07-2009, 03:49 PM

The ways of the Christian god is unknowable! You just have to trust it! Remember folks: the red, horned man with the pitch fork is the one to blame, not the invisible, unknowable trinity thingy god that is outside time and space! Pray for the amputees anyways fellas! Feels good man!

r0gue6 · 11-07-2009, 03:54 PM

I think maybe God has magic points, and he ran out.

Or there was some war of Gods, and he lost.

Loochi · 11-07-2009, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whoda

God didnt create sin, he created free choice. God did create a sinless world, but when Satan was cast out of heaven into Earth for rebelling against God, Sin entered the world

Theres free will in Heaven, just like their is free will on earth,except their will be no temptation to sin. Satan made his choices when he was in heaven, to transgress against God, and thus he was cast out of heaven.

You said it yourself, Love is not forceful. If God would have destroyed Satan when he transgressed, than the angels would "love" God out of fear of being annihilated.

Isn't that the only reason why we love God?? The fear of being annihilated though?? It is though right?

pureboost · 11-07-2009, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loochi

Isn't that the only reason why we love God?? The fear of being annihilated though?? It is though right?

That wouldn't be love then brah

Whoda · 11-07-2009, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loochi

Isn't that the only reason why we love God?? The fear of being annihilated though?? It is though right?

There are many reasons why people "love" God. That is certainly one of them.

Point is, If God destroyed Lucifer, thus destroying Sin, than some would worship God out of fear, not Love.

Tiffany Wantsmore · 11-07-2009, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pureboost

Hmm.. how to word this. God loves us all and desires for us to have a loving relationship with him. But love is not forceful.

Humans have free-will.. the ability to choose. We must choose to love god, and accept him into our life.

So God created choice, not sin. Human sin comes from a result of their choices. If we didn't have a choice in loving god, it wouldn't be real love. There would be no relationships made between humans and humans, or humans and jesus without choice. So choice must be present. Sin is the aftermath of choice.

But you said earlier that because the first man, Adam, sinned, that resulted in human nature being sinful. So ONE person does it, and the rest of humanity is tarred with the same brush? That's fair.

jackal337 · 11-07-2009, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whoda

God didnt create sin, he created free choice. God did create a sinless world, but when Satan was cast out of heaven into Earth for rebelling against God, Sin entered the world

Theres free will in Heaven, just like their is free will on earth,except their will be no temptation to sin. Satan made his choices when he was in heaven, to transgress against God, and thus he was cast out of heaven.

You said it yourself, Love is not forceful. If God would have destroyed Satan when he transgressed, than the angels would "love" God out of fear of being annihilated.

God didn't need to destroy Satan, he could have just stopped him from transgressing in the first place. Whatever tempted Satan to transgress, God could have removed the temptation.

Whoda · 11-07-2009, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackal337

God didn't need to destroy Satan, he could have just stopped him from transgressing in the first place. Whatever tempted Satan to transgress, God could have removed the temptation.

"he could have just stopped him from transgressing". That statement alone shows that their is free will

pureboost · 11-07-2009, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiffany Wantsmore

But you said earlier that because the first man, Adam, sinned, that resulted in human nature being sinful. So ONE person does it, and the rest of humanity is tarred with the same brush? That's fair.

It wasn't just that he sinned. It was that he ate from the tree of knowledge. He chose the route of independence instead of being with god. All humans branched off from him after he ate from the tree of knowledge. It wasn't exactly that because he sinned we are all sinners. It's because the result of him choosing to eat off the tree of knowledge is the sinful nature of man.

BTW - Some people believe there were actual "trees" and a garden of Eden.. while some say it is metaphorical.

jackal337 · 11-07-2009, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whoda

"he could have just stopped him from transgressing". That statement alone shows that their is free will

I never said that free-will doesn't exist.

Let me say it as clearly as I can. If people in Heaven never sin, then there is no free-will in Heaven.

So which is it, is there sin in Heaven, or is there no free-will in heaven?

Whoda · 11-07-2009, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackal337

I never said that free-will doesn't exist.

Let me say it as clearly as I can. If people in Heaven never sin, then there is no free-will in Heaven.

So which is it, is there sin in Heaven, or is there no free-will in heaven?

Sin is transgressing against Gods law. There is no sin in heaven. There is also free will in heaven. The angels obey Gods law and love him out of free will. "If you love me, you will obey my commandments."

J-Bol · 11-07-2009, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weightaholic

Well played. Anyone who doesn't believe it doesn't understand.

Nice.

I did not say "that if you don't believe it you don't understand it". Try reading what I wrote next time.

jackal337 · 11-07-2009, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whoda

Sin is transgressing against Gods law. There is no sin in heaven. There is also free will in heaven. The angels obey Gods law and love him out of free will. "If you love me, you will obey my commandments."

Was it not Satan's free-will that allowed him to sin while he was in Heaven? What's to stop other angels from doing the same thing? Unless they don't have free-will at all....

J-Bol · 11-07-2009, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackal337

Was it not Satan's free-will that allowed him to sin while he was in Heaven? What's to stop other angels from doing the same thing? Unless they don't have free-will at all....

1. Yes
2. The same thing that stops you from murdering someone, for lack of a better explanation.
3. They do have free will.

pureboost · 11-07-2009, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackal337

I never said that free-will doesn't exist.

Let me say it as clearly as I can. If people in Heaven never sin, then there is no free-will in Heaven.

So which is it, is there sin in Heaven, or is there no free-will in heaven?

And let us say it as clearly as we can. Neither of those options.

There is free-will in heaven. There is zero temptation to sin, resulting in no sin

jackal337 · 11-07-2009, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J-Bol

1. Yes
2. The same thing that stops you from murdering someone, for lack of a better explanation.
3. They do have free will.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pureboost

And let us say it as clearly as we can. Neither of those options.

There is free-will in heaven. There is zero temptation to sin, resulting in no sin

If it is as you say... that heaven has both free-will and there is no sin, then that brings me back to my original post in this thread which is as follows...

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackal337

Why couldn't your god make a world in which people would have no need for prayer? Everyone could have all their needs met and be in perfect happiness forever. Isn't that what you believe heaven to be like? If your god can construct a perfect afterlife then why can he not construct a perfect world for this life?

aaron653 · 11-07-2009, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JAGERBOY

Actually a miracle like that is very important, certainly not overrated. If God healed an amputee, he would then convince many people he existed. Then they would start living the life he wanted them to. You say that belief in God gets you nowhere, thats fine, but if people don't believe in God from the get go, they aren't going to follow any of these other guidelines you think are necessary.

God could speak directly to every person in the world and many of them would not be "convinced." They would make up some other reason for it happening.

Maestro · 11-07-2009, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asylumz

THREADS LIKE THIS ARE STUPID AND POINTLESS.

why are they stupid and pointless?

Harbinger · 11-07-2009, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aaron653

God could speak directly to every person in the world and many of them would not be "convinced." They would make up some other reason for it happening.

God could also come to Earth some day and say "Jesus, who's Jesus? I never said anything about a son". and the Christians would try to use scripture to prove him wrong.

pureboost · 11-07-2009, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackal337

If it is as you say... that heaven has both free-will and there is no sin, then that brings me back to my original post in this thread which is as follows...

And that brings us back to choice and the sinful nature of man. Because of choice, not everyone makes it to heaven.

MonsterG8r · 11-07-2009, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JAGERBOY

Actually a miracle like that is very important, certainly not overrated. If God healed an amputee, he would then convince many people he existed. Then they would start living the life he wanted them to. You say that belief in God gets you nowhere, thats fine, but if people don't believe in God from the get go, they aren't going to follow any of these other guidelines you think are necessary.

Nope. If that happened the "scientists" of the world would simply point to some recessive genetic trait or fluke because the person was exposed to radiation or some other environmental toxin. They would simply explain how this proves evolution.....but it was excelerated like punctuated equilibrium. It wouldn't change a thing.

Mr Bounce · 11-07-2009, 07:01 PM

This whole idea of prayer is so human, it's ridiculous.
We go to all the trouble of creating a God character only to use him as a magic genie. How selfish!

edit: typo

Tsudo · 11-07-2009, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JAGERBOY

Actually a miracle like that is very important, certainly not overrated. If God healed an amputee, he would then convince many people he existed. Then they would start living the life he wanted them to. You say that belief in God gets you nowhere, thats fine, but if people don't believe in God from the get go, they aren't going to follow any of these other guidelines you think are necessary.

Camel's nose, man. You're making a lot of assumptions about what people would respond to, and how they would respond.

"If God does this, then I'll certainly believe He exists"

"If smoking kills, then I'll certainly stop smoking..."

"If drinking and driving can lead to potential deaths, then people would certainly not drink and drive..."

I don't know why He doesn't do some things, and why He elects to do others -- you're just going to have to ask Him...

But I'd venture to say no amount of evidence aside from the perfect resolution (raising the bar, btw) would persuade you to believe in Him.