Only thing about sheiko is that is really tailored for a single exercise right? So really as a BB that's not going to do you a whole lot of good. Since you'd be burnt to a crisp if you tried to impliment that system to the entire body.
I still think that GVT couls have strong merits for what you may be looking for. If you applied it to a single major movement then just filled the fluff (you could even mix in hyper and power to the fluff movements). Put that on a push, pull, upper, lower split. Rotate/change the major mover each session and I think you'd pretty much be sore as shhhh for a while.
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I have almost completed sheiko # 29 and I love it. No direct accessory movements, but MY GOSH my lats have never been more sore and everything seems to be maintaing and most growing honestly + massive strength gains it feels like. I also do HIIT twice a week, but with less intervals broken down. I will be maxing out next week once I officially finish and owned this passed 4 weeks, time to move on up to a higher routine, maybe smolov
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For the very same reasons you feel eh eh about GVT I did. So what I do now is basically just throw its rep/set scheme where I feel I need it. The setup Chris DA Basil is running is good, as was my Upper/Lower, but I might be a little biased. My new setup...Totally loving it!
You might like it to, very Max-OT'ish every other week, but very BB familiar the next week. But after Max-OT upping the frequency would be ideal! That would send you catapulting.
I had great results with GVT either the 10x10 version or the 5x10 version. i like to do it at least once in my off season.
What kind of split in your GVT did you used berto ? I'd like to know your point about it ! thanks
Todd, I think you are thinking of smolov. Sheiko is directed to the big 3, not just one of those lifts. But like I said in my original post, I agree Eric, I don't think it's what you'll need or what your body will want to do next. I like the upper lower idea.
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I bet I'll love it too, and yeah that is exactly the plan...but I'm having trouble thinking of a program to fit the bill...I was thinking GVT but really I don't think its a well designed program...the total number of sets per bodypart really isn't that high, the frequency is still 1x/week, and the only thing increased is the workload...but not that much from max ot...so all i'd really be doing is decreasing intensity...doesnt sound smart to me...
so let me put this out there to everybody, any suggestions on some high volume high frequency programs I should give a go? I could easily design my own, but I'd like to give some existing programs a shot.
I don't know if I'm any good for advice but I am currently doing, I don't know if you call this high volume though: I'm off the juice now and this is what i am currently doing in my contest prep
6 days a week: ( warm up excluded all 6-8 reps 60-70 sec rest between set)
day 1: back ( 12 sets ), rear delts ( 9 sets ), biceps ( 10 sets ), abs ( 8 sets)
day 2: chest ( 12 sets ), side delts ( 9 sets ) triceps ( 10 sets ) abs ( 8 sets )
day3: quads ( 16-18 sets ), calevs ( 9 sets )
day 4: same as day 1
day 5: same as day 2
day 6: hammies ( 16-18 sets ), calves ( 9 sets )
day 7: off
I'm prepping for show though but this is very hard !
I love GVT too: I did this in my last off season it worked great . I did it for 15 weeks then I stopped due to some slight tendon pain.
Day 1: Chest and Back
A-1: Incline Barbell Presses
10 sets of 5 on a 40X0 tempo, rest 70 seconds
A-2: lat pulldown or weighed chin up
10 sets of 5 on a 40X0 tempo, rest 60 seconds
B-1: Parallel Bar Dips
5 sets of 6-8 on a 40X0 tempo, rest 60 seconds
B-2: One-Arm Arc Dumbbell Rows
5 sets of 6-8 on a 40X0 tempo, rest 60 seconds
Day 2: Legs
A-1: Back Squats
10 sets of 5 on a 40X0 tempo, rest 70 seconds
A-2: Lying Leg Curls, feet pointing away from the body
10 sets of 5 on a 40X0 tempo, rest 100 seconds
B-1: Dumbbell Lunges
6 sets of 6-8 on a 30X0 tempo, rest 60 seconds
B-2: Romanian Deadlifts
6 sets of 6-8 on a 40X0 tempo, rest 60 seconds
Day 3: Arms
A-1: BB Curls
10 sets of 5 on a 30X0 tempo, rest 60 seconds
A-2: Close Grip Bench Press
10 sets of 5 on a 30X0 tempo, rest 60 seconds
B-1: hammer curls
5 sets of 6-8 on a 30X0 tempo, rest 60 seconds
B-2: Rope pressdown
6 sets of 6-8 on a 30X0 tempo, rest 60 seconds
Day 4: Chest and Back
A-1: 30-degree Incline Barbell Presses
10 sets of 5 on a 40X0 tempo, rest 70 seconds
A-2: Close Parallel Grip chin-ups
10 sets of 5 on a 40X0 tempo, rest 60 seconds
B-1: Flat Dumbbell Presses
5 sets of 6-8 on a 40X0 tempo, rest 90 seconds
B-2: Bent over rows
5 sets of 6-8 on a 30X0 tempo, rest 60 seconds
Day 5: Legs
A-1: Hack squats
10 sets of 5 on a 40X0 tempo, rest 70 seconds
A-2: Lying Leg curls
10 sets of 5 on a 30X0 tempo, rest 70 seconds
B-1: One leg incline press
5 sets 8 reps rest 60 seconds
B-2: Glute-ham Raises
5 sets of 6-8 on a 40X0 tempo, rest 60 seconds
Day 6: Arms
A-1: Seated Zottmann Curls
10 sets of 5 on a 30X0 tempo, rest 70 seconds
A-2: Low decline close grip bench presses
10 sets of 5 on a 30X0 tempo, rest 70 seconds
B-1: Scott Bench Curls
5 sets of 6-8 on a 30X0 tempo, rest 60 seconds
B-2: triceps pushdown
5 sets of 6-8 on a 30X0 tempo, rest 60 seconds
Day 7: Off
Then back on day 1
This is sooo intense and demanding but I do respond well to high voume.
I was on the huice though at the time so reconvery was easier.
Now i'm off the juice I'll give it another go in my next off season and see, and may be adapt.
Todd, I think you are thinking of smolov. Sheiko is directed to the big 3, not just one of those lifts. But like I said in my original post, I agree Eric, I don't think it's what you'll need or what your body will want to do next. I like the upper lower idea.
Oh yeah smolov. Good catch. Yeah that one is pick one exercise and kill it like 9 times a week lol
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sheiko is high frequency? I thought it was 3x/week? oh yeah...its full body 3x/week though isn't it?
I may just do the Ivory latino split:
Sat upper
Sun lower
Mon upper
Tue lower
Wed upper
Thu lower
Fri off
NO FAILURE, mon and tue moderate volume easier workout
unless of course serge's program is good stuff....or let me take a look at sheiko...#29 right?
Yep #29 or #37 is generally what people start with. Those are the two with the lowest volume.
Sheiko is probably the best pre-made program to follow imo. Every single lift laid out by one of the best PL coaches in the world. If you want to follow and have confidence in something someone else wrote and have proper periodization (in the high frequency/high volume range), that's the program series to probably roll with. Just my 2c Also depends if you mind lifting in the low rep range primarily.
You can toy with the assistance work a little bit too for some more specific hypertrophy action. Check out ChaseT's log and Frank's also as he's been tearin' it up lately Worst thing that could happen on a Sheiko split for a month or two is that your form becomes impeccable and you setup a nice rebound with some different volume/frequency parameters when you decide to switch.
Quote:
Originally Posted by toddbz
Oh yeah smolov. Good catch. Yeah that one is pick one exercise and kill it like 9 times a week lol
I wonder if Smolov has ever been done for the deadlift Can't wait to run the prog for my squat within the next year sometime.
so let me put this out there to everybody, any suggestions on some high volume high frequency programs I should give a go? I could easily design my own, but I'd like to give some existing programs a shot.
Workouts by Quelly! I say give one of your own a try. Offseasons don't have to be by the books
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IMO Eric, I would say go by your plan as this is what I have always made a mistake in offseason doing. During diet we come up with big plans, but throughout our offseason we lose track with our original plans. I would say try the routine as 10x10 on exercises for somehting like squat or deads or bench seem pretty rough IMO + following out the routine for the 13 weeks cant hurt if you put in best effort to smoke it. My opinion is just to stick with your written down plan and go with the flow and go with those other routines like sheiko or upper/lower split, etc.. since ya do have until 2011
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Workouts by Quelly! I say give one of your own a try. Offseasons don't have to be by the books
Thats what I'd say...I mean E, you could very well be one of the most knowledgeable people I know, you got enough in that head to create numerous AWESOME splits!
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Thats what I'd say...I mean E, you could very well be one of the most knowledgeable people I know, you got enough in that head to create numerous AWESOME splits!
Only thing about sheiko is that is really tailored for a single exercise right? So really as a BB that's not going to do you a whole lot of good. Since you'd be burnt to a crisp if you tried to impliment that system to the entire body.
I still think that GVT couls have strong merits for what you may be looking for. If you applied it to a single major movement then just filled the fluff (you could even mix in hyper and power to the fluff movements). Put that on a push, pull, upper, lower split. Rotate/change the major mover each session and I think you'd pretty much be sore as shhhh for a while.
GVT is the most focused program on one lift I can think of...so for all the reasons you said don't do sheiko (and you mean smolov) are all the same reasos I don't want to do gvt...and also all the adjustments you are talking about for GVT basically make it completely not GVT, you're combining in phat and changing the fundamental principles of gvt lol....plus what devin said below
Quote:
Originally Posted by devinh
Todd, I think you are thinking of smolov. Sheiko is directed to the big 3, not just one of those lifts. But like I said in my original post, I agree Eric, I don't think it's what you'll need or what your body will want to do next. I like the upper lower idea.
i agree
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankdaddy
I have almost completed sheiko # 29 and I love it. No direct accessory movements, but MY GOSH my lats have never been more sore and everything seems to be maintaing and most growing honestly + massive strength gains it feels like. I also do HIIT twice a week, but with less intervals broken down. I will be maxing out next week once I officially finish and owned this passed 4 weeks, time to move on up to a higher routine, maybe smolov
I'm really liking sheiko...but right now i need more than 3x/week lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by ehlisl
[/b]
Workouts by Quelly! I say give one of your own a try. Offseasons don't have to be by the books
not at all...my issue is that I'm ADD, and if I go by my plan I end up changing my mind a few weeks in lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankdaddy
IMO Eric, I would say go by your plan as this is what I have always made a mistake in offseason doing. During diet we come up with big plans, but throughout our offseason we lose track with our original plans. I would say try the routine as 10x10 on exercises for somehting like squat or deads or bench seem pretty rough IMO + following out the routine for the 13 weeks cant hurt if you put in best effort to smoke it. My opinion is just to stick with your written down plan and go with the flow and go with those other routines like sheiko or upper/lower split, etc.. since ya do have until 2011
I'm def gonna stick with my plans, yet I'm still in the process of making them...I just don't think gvt is the optimal shift to go to from max ot
Quote:
Originally Posted by gymratluke
Thats what I'd say...I mean E, you could very well be one of the most knowledgeable people I know, you got enough in that head to create numerous AWESOME splits!
Quote:
Originally Posted by visionz
Agreed here also
thanks guys, but like I said...ADD....I'm great at doing long term plans for others...but for me...I end up adding on **** and changing stuff every 3 days lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by gymratluke
O I C so you're just lookin into what you'll change to after you're done...I like Upper/Lower a lot! I personally would go with a Pull/Push/Lower routine, but I dont know if it has the frequency you need since you'd most likely need to take a day off between Lower and Pull.
that basically was my split for my entire prep...only reason I'm thinking upper lower instead
Quote:
Originally Posted by FATHER FLEX
For the very same reasons you feel eh eh about GVT I did. So what I do now is basically just throw its rep/set scheme where I feel I need it. The setup Chris DA Basil is running is good, as was my Upper/Lower, but I might be a little biased. My new setup...Totally loving it!
You might like it to, very Max-OT'ish every other week, but very BB familiar the next week. But after Max-OT upping the frequency would be ideal! That would send you catapulting.
I think I'm gonna go with the upper lower, biased or not
Quote:
Originally Posted by aguy fish
I don't know if I'm any good for advice but I am currently doing, I don't know if you call this high volume though: I'm off the juice now and this is what i am currently doing in my contest prep
6 days a week: ( warm up excluded all 6-8 reps 60-70 sec rest between set)
day 1: back ( 12 sets ), rear delts ( 9 sets ), biceps ( 10 sets ), abs ( 8 sets)
day 2: chest ( 12 sets ), side delts ( 9 sets ) triceps ( 10 sets ) abs ( 8 sets )
day3: quads ( 16-18 sets ), calevs ( 9 sets )
day 4: same as day 1
day 5: same as day 2
day 6: hammies ( 16-18 sets ), calves ( 9 sets )
day 7: off
I'm prepping for show though but this is very hard !
I love GVT too: I did this in my last off season it worked great . I did it for 15 weeks then I stopped due to some slight tendon pain.
Day 1: Chest and Back
A-1: Incline Barbell Presses
10 sets of 5 on a 40X0 tempo, rest 70 seconds
A-2: lat pulldown or weighed chin up
10 sets of 5 on a 40X0 tempo, rest 60 seconds
B-1: Parallel Bar Dips
5 sets of 6-8 on a 40X0 tempo, rest 60 seconds
B-2: One-Arm Arc Dumbbell Rows
5 sets of 6-8 on a 40X0 tempo, rest 60 seconds
Day 2: Legs
A-1: Back Squats
10 sets of 5 on a 40X0 tempo, rest 70 seconds
A-2: Lying Leg Curls, feet pointing away from the body
10 sets of 5 on a 40X0 tempo, rest 100 seconds
B-1: Dumbbell Lunges
6 sets of 6-8 on a 30X0 tempo, rest 60 seconds
B-2: Romanian Deadlifts
6 sets of 6-8 on a 40X0 tempo, rest 60 seconds
Day 3: Arms
A-1: BB Curls
10 sets of 5 on a 30X0 tempo, rest 60 seconds
A-2: Close Grip Bench Press
10 sets of 5 on a 30X0 tempo, rest 60 seconds
B-1: hammer curls
5 sets of 6-8 on a 30X0 tempo, rest 60 seconds
B-2: Rope pressdown
6 sets of 6-8 on a 30X0 tempo, rest 60 seconds
Day 4: Chest and Back
A-1: 30-degree Incline Barbell Presses
10 sets of 5 on a 40X0 tempo, rest 70 seconds
A-2: Close Parallel Grip chin-ups
10 sets of 5 on a 40X0 tempo, rest 60 seconds
B-1: Flat Dumbbell Presses
5 sets of 6-8 on a 40X0 tempo, rest 90 seconds
B-2: Bent over rows
5 sets of 6-8 on a 30X0 tempo, rest 60 seconds
Day 5: Legs
A-1: Hack squats
10 sets of 5 on a 40X0 tempo, rest 70 seconds
A-2: Lying Leg curls
10 sets of 5 on a 30X0 tempo, rest 70 seconds
B-1: One leg incline press
5 sets 8 reps rest 60 seconds
B-2: Glute-ham Raises
5 sets of 6-8 on a 40X0 tempo, rest 60 seconds
Day 6: Arms
A-1: Seated Zottmann Curls
10 sets of 5 on a 30X0 tempo, rest 70 seconds
A-2: Low decline close grip bench presses
10 sets of 5 on a 30X0 tempo, rest 70 seconds
B-1: Scott Bench Curls
5 sets of 6-8 on a 30X0 tempo, rest 60 seconds
B-2: triceps pushdown
5 sets of 6-8 on a 30X0 tempo, rest 60 seconds
Day 7: Off
Then back on day 1
This is sooo intense and demanding but I do respond well to high voume.
I was on the huice though at the time so reconvery was easier.
Now i'm off the juice I'll give it another go in my next off season and see, and may be adapt.
I hope it helps !
thanks for all that info bro!
Quote:
Originally Posted by visionz
Yep #29 or #37 is generally what people start with. Those are the two with the lowest volume.
Sheiko is probably the best pre-made program to follow imo. Every single lift laid out by one of the best PL coaches in the world. If you want to follow and have confidence in something someone else wrote and have proper periodization (in the high frequency/high volume range), that's the program series to probably roll with. Just my 2c Also depends if you mind lifting in the low rep range primarily.
You can toy with the assistance work a little bit too for some more specific hypertrophy action. Check out ChaseT's log and Frank's also as he's been tearin' it up lately Worst thing that could happen on a Sheiko split for a month or two is that your form becomes impeccable and you setup a nice rebound with some different volume/frequency parameters when you decide to switch.
I wonder if Smolov has ever been done for the deadlift Can't wait to run the prog for my squat within the next year sometime.
I'm def gonna run 29 after my next high intesnity low volume period....and smolov with deads...crazy! dont do it lol
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Yeah going to do Alberto's split because he is VERY good looking. Nuff said
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the 3x per week does suck, especially after a prep and everything is getting back to normal. I switched from 1+ year of max-ot to the power.hyper split with layne for 13 weeks and then we switched to sheiko, which was a nice feeling of destruction all over with the switches LOL.
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Yeah going to do Alberto's split because he is VERY good looking. Nuff said
and this is why you make sure you log off your account when staying at aberto's pad lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebasil
which one? lol
i think the berto split is generally just...move some heavy **** coupled with excessive amounts of total volume
its my fave!
specifically his upper/lower 6 days in a row split
Quote:
Originally Posted by aguy fish
Could you tell more about alberto split I'm interested too!
essentially its:
Sat upper
Sun lower
Mon upper
Tue lower
Wed upper
Thu lower
Fri OFF
NO FAILURE, mon and tue volume is low and movements are easier, sat and sun and wed and thu volume is moderate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankdaddy
the 3x per week does suck, especially after a prep and everything is getting back to normal. I switched from 1+ year of max-ot to the power.hyper split with layne for 13 weeks and then we switched to sheiko, which was a nice feeling of destruction all over with the switches LOL.
I bet! I d want to try it out though...but probably not yet, probably after I run westside
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specifically his upper/lower 6 days in a row split
essentially its:
Sat upper
Sun lower
Mon upper
Tue lower
Wed upper
Thu lower
Fri OFF
NO FAILURE, mon and tue volume is low and movements are easier, sat and sun and wed and thu volume is moderate.
I bet! I d want to try it out though...but probably not yet, probably after I run westside
I support this! I am a huge fan of upper/lower. For me it allows me to pound the crap out of each bodypart multiple times a week with a lower volume. This is exactly the kind of thing that makes me grow. Never tried it 6 days a week though. That should be really taxing, which is awesome for you right now.
For me, too doing too much volume doesn't help because I'm fried after like 10 sets. For me, Frequency and Intensity > High Volume.
Question eric,
what do you call low volume and moderate volume?
I have the feeling i've overtraining but I am one of those who think they never do enough and this is why I think i'm close to breakdown right now during my prep. I guess I need advice on this one. Would you advice an upper lower routine such as berto's for contest prep ?
Just curious, what would you think would be a good routine for the final three weeks just for me to feel better no sooo tired and weak ( plus all my numerous injuries)?
Upper/lowers are great, man. As you said, Berto incorporates them. Tommy Jeffers is a huge fan of upper/lowers as well, and Layne uses them all the time. I believe Layne called his version his "bread and butter" routine.
I support this! I am a huge fan of upper/lower. For me it allows me to pound the crap out of each bodypart multiple times a week with a lower volume. This is exactly the kind of thing that makes me grow. Never tried it 6 days a week though. That should be really taxing, which is awesome for you right now.
For me, too doing too much volume doesn't help because I'm fried after like 10 sets. For me, Frequency and Intensity > High Volume.
yah i'm actually going to really have to watch the failure, and keep the volume moderate on this frequency
Quote:
Originally Posted by visionz
Good stuff.
And trust me I won't! Smolov ran with deadlifts would probably be the slowest most painful death imaginable!
Looks like a fun split!
its gonna rock! overtraining ftw
Quote:
Originally Posted by aguy fish
Question eric,
what do you call low volume and moderate volume?
I have the feeling i've overtraining but I am one of those who think they never do enough and this is why I think i'm close to breakdown right now during my prep. I guess I need advice on this one. Would you advice an upper lower routine such as berto's for contest prep ?
Just curious, what would you think would be a good routine for the final three weeks just for me to feel better no sooo tired and weak ( plus all my numerous injuries)?
I consulted with bert on that pm you got friend
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bnizzle163
Upper/lowers are great, man. As you said, Berto incorporates them. Tommy Jeffers is a huge fan of upper/lowers as well, and Layne uses them all the time. I believe Layne called his version his "bread and butter" routine.
gotta love bread and butter...can't wait to get in 3 workouts/week on each bodypart with the loads that I'm going to be able to move after Max OT
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Drove up to Alberto's last night, kept it quiet so we could surprise Nick today, I talked to him on the phone all the way up to his door and he when he answered the door bell I was still on the phone with him....took him a good 3 seconds before he recovered from the confusion lol.
We hit up an awesome workout, nick is getting LEAN, berto is getting HUGE, and I'm getting STRONG, probably 3 weeks away from a new all time PR on db overhead press, best to date is 90 x 3...almost there and beyond!
We hit up an awesome indian meal for an early dinner followed by frozen yogurt, good times!
Heading to the gym
Oh my god its Alberto Nunez!
Like I said, I aint storin it like I used to!
Like I said Alberto is getting bigger
And Nick is getting LEAN
Nutrition
1,285 19.3 117.7 158.9 + Indian and Frozen Yogurt I would estimate total calories for the day 3.5k-3.7k....much more reasonable day with a cheat meal compared to last week
Training
Periodization Mesocycle: Max OT
Delts, warm ups excluded
Seated DB Shoulder Press
Last WO: 80's x 6, 6, 6
This time: 85's x 5, 5, 4
1 arm Leaning DB lateral raise
Last WO: 50 x 6, 6, 6
This Time: 55 x 5, 5, 5
Single Arm Front Delt Cable Raise *(can't compare cables, so I just felt it out)
1st WO: *40lbs x 4, 30lbs x 5
Last time: *20lbs x 6, 6
This time: *25kg x 4, 20kg x 6
Bent Over Rear Delt Raises
Last WO: 60's x 6
This time: 65's x 5
Misc
Ive had a ridiculous amount of diet soda today lol
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http://www.3dmusclejourney.com/team-3dmj.php
Relentless 2009-2011: Eric Helms forging a physique that leaves no doubt.
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=119360441
(opens door and sees Eric, then immediately looks at his phone)
"WTF!"
^^^ you definitely got me yesterday
your shoulder presses were money yesterday! At least with your body storing visceral differently this time around, you can enjoy the leg separation longer , since we all know you worked so damn hard to get it!
next time you come down here Im going to be joining the curry corner and frozen yogurt trip! Buleeeeeed dat!
But now I am in... Good to see all the workout routine talk. Ever decided what your going to do? Are you going to the plan out the next couple months or wing it?
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I just wanted to say that you are progressing at an rate strength wise! Every time I come in here you have increased reps or weight (which I know is the point of MAX-OT but still). Impressive.