11 year old Bulgarian woman gives birth

[SYRIANKID]

Married, with child:

[ThundaHawk]

Just because something can happen doesn't mean it should, though.

I'm of the opinion that 11 year old girls aren't emotionally and mentally developed enough to be wives/mothers. Hell, there are 25 year olds out there that haven't the maturity.

[psamty]

wow strong pedo

[SYRIANKID]

Originally Posted by ThundaHawk

Just because something can happen doesn't mean it should, though.

I'm of the opinion that 11 year old girls aren't emotionally and mentally developed enough to be wives/mothers. Hell, there are 25 year olds out there that haven't the maturity.

So what's the magical age that everyone can agree that a person becomes mature, responsible, and capable of entering a relationship or raising children? Please feel free to include consensus data on this topic. Also explain why it would be justified to prevent people from getting married but not prevent them, at the same time, from having extra-marital relationships in general, which can be just as dangerous when involving "immature" persons.

[ThundaHawk]

Originally Posted by SYRIANKID

So what's the magical age that everyone can agree that a person becomes mature, responsible, and capable of entering a relationship or raising children? Please feel free to include consensus data on this topic. Also explain why it would be justified to prevent people from getting married but not prevent them, at the same time, from having extra-marital relationships in general, which can be just as dangerous when involving "immature" persons.

There is no magical age, but I'm pretty sure that by consensus you could take a psych profile of all the 11 year old girls in the world and (if you were omniscient) come to the conclusion that most haven't even figured out who they are, let alone what they want in the world.

Also, To Catch a Predator isn't out to stop pedos from marrying prepubescent girls... it's more concerned with stopping adults from ****ing children. At what point a child stops being a child is arguable. I'd say it's when a person comes to terms with "I" and realizes that everything that happens in life is up to "I". The problem is, most 11 year olds haven't even figured out who that "I" is. They're a jumble of emotions and fickle desires for acceptance and teh coolness.

[leafs43]

The world record of the youngest age for giving birth is 5.

Just because a 5 year old can give birth doesn't justify having sex with one. Same thing for an 11 year old.

[jackamo2887]

The 'man' that married and impregnated that girl is as disgusting and pathetic as every other man through out history that has taken advantage of a young girl.

[Rune]

Originally Posted by SYRIANKID

So what's the magical age that everyone can agree that a person becomes mature, responsible, and capable of entering a relationship or raising children? Please feel free to include consensus data on this topic. Also explain why it would be justified to prevent people from getting married but not prevent them, at the same time, from having extra-marital relationships in general, which can be just as dangerous when involving "immature" persons.

So you'd be perfectly fine if your 11 year old daughter got knocked up?

[SYRIANKID]

Originally Posted by Rune

So you'd be perfectly fine if your 11 year old daughter got knocked up?

You mean if she decided to have children with a good husband? What would be the problem with that?

Keep in mind that charging a weak argument with electrifying terms will not improve the argument. You can try to make a legitimate marriage grotesque with selective wording, but that would be disingenuous.

[a_ahmed]

lol *high five SK*





Non-muslims = Owned






Cmon get real... you guys are attacking the idea of MARRIAGE from puberty.... but circumventing things like premarital fornication as OKAY because it just happens. Just admit it, you're trying to bash Muslims and Islam... plain and simple. Such a double standard.

[Dragger]

Originally Posted by SYRIANKID

So what's the magical age that everyone can agree that a person becomes mature, responsible, and capable of entering a relationship or raising children? Please feel free to include consensus data on this topic. Also explain why it would be justified to prevent people from getting married but not prevent them, at the same time, from having extra-marital relationships in general, which can be just as dangerous when involving "immature" persons.

No magical age, everyone matures at different ages, it varies from person to person.

[Halfway]

If a 'good husband' knocked up my pre teen daughter, I would pay him a visit with bolt cutters and a blow torch.

[a_ahmed]

Originally Posted by Rune

So you'd be perfectly fine if your 11 year old daughter got knocked up?

The problem with the mentality of you guys is that you have sick visions, pre conditions, conceptions etc...

One of the points of Aisha's marriage to Muhammad (peace be upon him) was to set the boundaries/limits as well.

People have been socially conditioned to accept it normal to marry 30+ as of late. In fact people are socially being conditioned to accept homosexual marriages....

Likewise you've been preconditioned to find it 'eewy' for someone in their teens or just puberscent to get married.

People find it weird of ME getting married at 21.... so yeah go figure.

[Rune]

Originally Posted by SYRIANKID

You mean if she decided to have children with a good husband? What would be the problem with that?

Yup, because we all know 11 year olds are great decision makers.

[a_ahmed]

Originally Posted by Halfway

If a 'good husband' knocked up my pre teen daughter, I would pay him a visit with bolt cutters and a blow torch.

First of all don't use 'knocked up' as thats derogatory.

Secondly how could your 'pre teen daughter' get a 'good husband' if she wasnt married to begin with without your approval and her consent? In other words your argument and anger in that sentence doesn't make sense.

Would you rather your daughter secretly get 'knocked up' by other boys her age in elementary and high school?

We're talking about marriage here. Not fornication. You guys have sick vision and preconceptions. That's where the problem lies.

[VTheKing]

Originally Posted by a_ahmed

lol *high five SK*





Non-muslims = Owned






Cmon get real... you guys are attacking the idea of MARRIAGE from puberty.... but circumventing things like premarital fornication as OKAY because it just happens. Just admit it, you're trying to bash Muslims and Islam... plain and simple. Such a double standard.

I think the R/P is educated enough to realize that Bulgarians are largely Christian Orthodox and did not think of Islam when they clicked the link. You're the one making this about Islam.

Originally Posted by SYRIANKID

You mean if she decided to have children with a good husband? What would be the problem with that?

Keep in mind that charging a weak argument with electrifying terms will not improve the argument. You can try to make a legitimate marriage grotesque with selective wording, but that would be disingenuous.

So, you think it's fine if your daughter makes a decision as important as marrying someone and having children before she even hits puberty?

[SYRIANKID]

Originally Posted by Dragger

No magical age, everyone matures at different ages, it varies from person to person.

Exactly; that's the response of which people are deathly afraid.

[a_ahmed]

Originally Posted by VTheKing

I think the R/P is educated enough to realize that Bulgarians are largely Christian Orthodox and did not think of Islam when they clicked the link. You're the one making this about Islam.



So, you think it's fine if your daughter makes a decision as important as marrying someone and having children before she even hits puberty?

I think the whole point was to illustrate the "OMG an 11 year old having a child or being married OMG". As if the world is ending.

Exactly you attack Muslims about it.

The derogatory language used to describe Muhammad and Aisha is continous coming out of your mouths... yet the thing in question is MARRIAGE... not fornication, abuse, etc... that your sick minds are concieving.

[SYRIANKID]

Originally Posted by VTheKing

So, you think it's fine if your daughter makes a decision as important as marrying someone and having children before she even hits puberty?

As a parent, I have exclusive rights to block a marriage I don't find suitable. No judge can pass a marriage without the guardians. But if it's an excellent marriage, and everyone involved is past the age of puberty and consenting, then it's a great thing.

[VTheKing]

Originally Posted by a_ahmed

I think the whole point was to illustrate the "OMG an 11 year old having a child or being married OMG". As if the world is ending.

Exactly you attack Muslims about it.

The derogatory language used to describe Muhammad and Aisha is continous coming out of your mouths... yet the thing in question is MARRIAGE... not fornication, abuse, etc... that your sick minds are concieving.

Where did I attack Muslims?? Oh dear, man.

Originally Posted by SYRIANKID

As a parent, I have exclusive rights to block a marriage I don't find suitable. No judge can pass a marriage without the guardians. But if it's an excellent marriage, and everyone involved is past the age of puberty and consenting, then it's a great thing.

What is the % of 11 years old that hit puberty at that age? Extremely few.

Out of those 11 years old who have sex with much older fellas, how many of them have actually come anywhere close to that stage? Very few. Consented? Not many.

I know what you mean, SK - I do agree with the opinion that everyone matures differently but 11 years old is a ridiculously low age, and a marriage with a kid before she even completes primary will undoubtedly seriously hamper her education and even social interaction.

[a_ahmed]

Originally Posted by VTheKing

Where did I attack Muslims?? Oh dear, man.

The whole point of this thread is as a response to the "marrying a 13 year old" thread where people were taking every angle to bash Islam, Muslims, Muhammad (peace be upon him) and Aisha (peace be upon her -- one of the youngest wives of the prophet).

What is the % of 11 years old that hit puberty at that age? Extremely few.

Out of those 11 years old who have sex with much older fellas, how many of them have actually come anywhere close to that stage? Very few. Consented? Not many.

I know what you mean, SK - I do agree with the opinion that everyone matures differently but 11 years old is a ridiculously low age, and a marriage with a kid before she even completes primary will undoubtedly seriously hamper her education and even social interaction.

You are now in lets put it under the rug argument because of an example of an 11 year old who has a baby, is married and isn't even muslim. They both look very happy too.

The whole argument of islamophobes with derogatory language against marriage past puberty has been just that... bashing Islam, bashing Muhammad (peace be upon him). Ironically as many are suposedly christians they are also not aware of the ages of most prophets who were also in their youths as well as married young. This was a NON issue to islamophobes of the past because people in the past married very young.

Just because people of today can't wipe their own butts up until 12 something and are too busy picking noses and playing playstation.... or better yet staying with their mother's basement well into their 30s doesn't mean that Muslims are weirdos for marrying or sicko abusive people who take 'advantage of people' etc...

It's really ironic since western society encourages directly and indirectly 'taking advantage' of females by premarital sex and fornication.

It's 'normal' for a teen girl to have sex and WEIRD for her to be a virgin well into her 20s.... but its WEIRD for a person to get married past puberty and nto be taken advantage of but actually in a marriage where the man has responsibilties and duties towards his wife.

Its one big paradox... only explaining itself very clearly through both threads as just a non-issue that islamophobes have made into an issue because today most people are not mentally mature enough to hold the responsibility of marriage... and further more society encourages this notion.

Aisha (ra) was more than mature physically and mentally... and again was responsible for transmitting tons of intricate knowledge on Islam being the wife of the prophet (pbuh).

If she so was 'abused' or whatever she could have spoken out easily after the prophet (pbuh) died, instead she spoke only with love of him and respect, good words, sweetness, etc...

Only reason why alot of you get 'sick ideas' is because of your own sick imagination... seriously.

[SYRIANKID]

Originally Posted by VTheKing

Out of those 11 years old who have sex with much older fellas, how many of them have actually come anywhere close to that stage? Very few. Consented? Not many.

I know what you mean, SK - I do agree with the opinion that everyone matures differently but 11 years old is a ridiculously low age, and a marriage with a kid before she even completes primary will undoubtedly seriously hamper her education and even social interaction.

I'm going to tell you a secret.

Young people are immature today because of poor social practices. If young kids are raised by other kids, if they watch t.v. or play video games all the time, if for the first 12 years of their life they are still coloring things at school, if they have no quality time with attentive adults then they will remain mentally immature for a long time.

So today, yes, most young people are immature. Not all of them, but many of them. In many parts of the world, especially poorer areas where young people lead a rough life and start working early and have no time or money for playing too long, they tend to be far more mature. This was especially true of past societies.

The take home message: evaluate each person and each circumstance as a unique case.

[alero]

Originally Posted by a_ahmed

I think the whole point was to illustrate the "OMG an 11 year old having a child or being married OMG". As if the world is ending.

Exactly you attack Muslims about it.

The derogatory language used to describe Muhammad and Aisha is continous coming out of your mouths... yet the thing in question is MARRIAGE... not fornication, abuse, etc... that your sick minds are concieving.

Absurd, paranoid garbage.

[VTheKing]

I don't even know what Ahmed is talking about anymore - I guess he's afraid of his own shadow.

Originally Posted by SYRIANKID

I'm going to tell you a secret.

Young people are immature today because of poor social practices. If young kids are raised by other kids, if they watch t.v. or play video games all the time, if for the first 12 years of their life they are still coloring things at school, if they have no quality time with attentive adults then they will remain mentally immature for a long time.

So today, yes, most young people are immature. Not all of them, but many of them. In many parts of the world, especially poorer areas where young people lead a rough life and start working early and have no time or money for playing too long, they tend to be far more mature. This was especially true of past societies.

The take home message: evaluate each person and each circumstance as a unique case.

I agree that youngsters are generally more immature nowadays - due to a lack of exposure to the "real world". But then again, it's easier who say is better off - the kid who had no option but throw himself at a coal mine everyday to survive and have to do the same thing all over his life or a kid that can afford to go into a protected environment, learn and grow to be educated and so as he desires? I'm not saying it's ideal if today's kids take longer to mature - but they're certainly much better off than before. Add a sense of community responsibility and contribution to the lot and it'll be great.

Laws have to reflect the current reality - since people generally take longer to mature, the bar of legislation related to "mature" activities has to be adjusted somewhat accordingly. Minimal consent/marriage age exists because for one, the likehood of a child having sex not knowing wtf is going on is big - girl gets pregnant, good game for her - same for boy if he cares about her. Secondly, the likelihood of the bride/sexual partner to be manipulating the other into "consenting" is HUGE - if he is exponentially older. It is all too easy to emotionally control a child through physical and sexual abuse. Lastly, a child is the responsibility of the guardians until he/she reaches legal adulthood - she/he should never marry if any guardian disagrees.

[a_ahmed]

Originally Posted by alero

Absurd, paranoid garbage.

Really?

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=120167851

Haven't seen that thread have you huh?

"13 year old marriage"

Pretty much 90% bashing Muhammad (peace be upon him) and derogatory talk about Islam, Muslims, Muhammad (pbuh), etc....

[a_ahmed]

Originally Posted by VTheKing

I don't even know what Ahmed is talking about anymore - I guess he's afraid of his own shadow.



I agree that youngsters are generally more immature nowadays - due to a lack of exposure to the "real world". But then again, it's easier who say is better off - the kid who had no option but throw himself at a coal mine everyday to survive and have to do the same thing all over his life or a kid that can afford to go into a protected environment, learn and grow to be educated and so as he desires? I'm not saying it's ideal if today's kids take longer to mature - but they're certainly much better off than before. Add a sense of community responsibility and contribution to the lot and it'll be great.

Laws have to reflect the current reality - since people generally take longer to mature, the bar of legislation related to "mature" activities has to be adjusted somewhat accordingly. Minimal consent/marriage age exists because for one, the likehood of a child having sex not knowing wtf is going on is big - girl gets pregnant, good game for her - same for boy if he cares about her. Secondly, the likelihood of the bride/sexual partner to be manipulating the other into "consenting" is HUGE - if he is exponentially older. It is all too easy to emotionally control a child through physical and sexual abuse. Lastly, a child is the responsibility of the guardians until he/she reaches legal adulthood - she/he should never marry if any guardian disagrees.

Well that's not how we work.

Just because people have become cookoo in the head today doesn't mean we change Islam. People should change instead. Just because TV says its okay to fornicate according to the latest hip hop song, doesn't mean we change Islam.

Just because people decide... you know what... fornication is okay, doesn't mean we abolish the law of marriage.

Same idea. We Muslims have islam for all times and we will continue to follow these laws despite time or space. Just because people chose to follow their own whims and desires to set laws one second this way, one second the other way doesn't mean we change.

Sure people may not even marry AT ALL anymore, that doesn't mean we'll stop marrying be it puberty+ or otherwise.

People tend to want to change things in order to satisfy what they are currently doing. We are trying to change ourselves towards what God has outlined for us in Islam and examplified through Muhammad and his life (pbuh)


I could have just as easily chosen the western... 'easy life' (on the surface) of going clubbing, picking up girls, fornicating, dumping them left and right, using them, etc... but instead I chose to get married and follow my religion, be loyal to my wife, respect her, take care of her, etc...

[alero]

Originally Posted by a_ahmed

Really?

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=120167851

Haven't seen that thread have you huh?

"13 year old marriage"

Pretty much 90% bashing Muhammad (peace be upon him) and derogatory talk about Islam, Muslims, Muhammad (pbuh), etc....

Absolutely none of what was going on in that thread is going on in here.

Originally Posted by VTheKing

I don't even know what Ahmed is talking about anymore - I guess he's afraid of his own shadow.



I agree that youngsters are generally more immature nowadays - due to a lack of exposure to the "real world". But then again, it's easier who say is better off - the kid who had no option but throw himself at a coal mine everyday to survive and have to do the same thing all over his life or a kid that can afford to go into a protected environment, learn and grow to be educated and so as he desires? I'm not saying it's ideal if today's kids take longer to mature - but they're certainly much better off than before. Add a sense of community responsibility and contribution to the lot and it'll be great.

Laws have to reflect the current reality - since people generally take longer to mature, the bar of legislation related to "mature" activities has to be adjusted somewhat accordingly. Minimal consent/marriage age exists because for one, the likehood of a child having sex not knowing wtf is going on is big - girl gets pregnant, good game for her - same for boy if he cares about her. Secondly, the likelihood of the bride/sexual partner to be manipulating the other into "consenting" is HUGE - if he is exponentially older. It is all too easy to emotionally control a child through physical and sexual abuse. Lastly, a child is the responsibility of the guardians until he/she reaches legal adulthood - she/he should never marry if any guardian disagrees.

No where in this post are Muslims or the Islamic faith mentioned, yet you go on a rant in your next post.

Originally Posted by a_ahmed

Well that's not how we work.

Just because people have become cookoo in the head today doesn't mean we change Islam. People should change instead. Just because TV says its okay to fornicate according to the latest hip hop song, doesn't mean we change Islam.

Just because people decide... you know what... fornication is okay, doesn't mean we abolish the law of marriage.

Same idea. We Muslims have islam for all times and we will continue to follow these laws despite time or space. Just because people chose to follow their own whims and desires to set laws one second this way, one second the other way doesn't mean we change.

Sure people may not even marry AT ALL anymore, that doesn't mean we'll stop marrying be it puberty+ or otherwise.

People tend to want to change things in order to satisfy what they are currently doing. We are trying to change ourselves towards what God has outlined for us in Islam and examplified through Muhammad and his life (pbuh)


I could have just as easily chosen the western... 'easy life' (on the surface) of going clubbing, picking up girls, fornicating, dumping them left and right, using them, etc... but instead I chose to get married and follow my religion, be loyal to my wife, respect her, take care of her, etc...

Then you disrespect us all by using the same technique you're blatting about.

Negged for your reverse racism, ignorance and intolerance.

[a_ahmed]

Originally Posted by Weightaholic

Do you do anything but cry about what people say about that bearded lunatic? How many posts are you going to make in this thread crying about the unjustness of it all?

Leaving aside the fact that Mohammed (pox be upon him), was nothing more than a warlord with a neurological disorder, he's been dead 1400 years, and is far beyond the slings and arrows of harsh words.

^ I'm not paranoid just refuting idiots like this. Thanks for proof of what I was talking about (refering to the other thread).

Your intent is not to ascertain the truth but to hide it and attack it for whatever personal reasons.

[a_ahmed]

Originally Posted by alero

Absolutely none of what was going on in that thread is going on in here.

See above lol. Weightaholic. The whole point of this thread was a response to that stupendous islamophobe thread.

Clearly that hatred has spewed in here.

No where in this post are Muslims or the Islamic faith mentioned, yet you go on a rant in your next post.

Yeah because an 11 year old non muslim is okay marrying but a 13 year old muslim marrying is 'evil'.

Double standard.

Then you disrespect us all by using the same technique you're blatting about.

Negged for your reverse racism, ignorance and intolerance.

"Reverse racism" what the hell is that?

And how am I 'racist', im a white westerner LMAO... ex-christian. Too much anti-ayrab hatred going on in here. You guys dont even know what being muslim means.

[Weightaholic]

Originally Posted by a_ahmed

See above lol. Weightaholic. The whole point of this thread was a response to that stupendous islamophobe thread.

It's called an opinion.

Brainwashed people tend to not have opinions. Well, not of their own, anyway.

Originally Posted by a_ahmed

Clearly that hatred has spewed in here.

Because you trolled it right in.

Originally Posted by a_ahmed

Yeah because an 11 year old non muslim is okay marrying but a 13 year old muslim marrying is 'evil'.

Again, trolling.

Originally Posted by a_ahmed

Double standard.

Half the wit....

Originally Posted by a_ahmed

"Reverse racism" what the hell is that?

And how am I 'racist', im a white westerner LMAO... ex-christian. Too much anti-ayrab hatred going on in here. You guys dont even know what being muslim means.

Apparently, if you're any example, it means troll.