Getting in to squats

[Puddleglum]

So I've had a slipped disc in the past, that caused real bad sciatica.

So instead of squats, I've been using a leg press machine.

Tried doing some squats today, and found that my balance is crap, and weirdly, kept ending rising on to toes instead of feet staying flat.

So looking for some advice please. Should I stay off squats, given back history? If not, how can I sort out this form issues?

Thanks

[gotabyte]

I was having back pains prior to starting my trainging program 5 months ago. At first, squats were tough until I was given advise to back off the weight and get the form right. That really helped.

Another recommendation that really helped was getting correct shoes. Do not use regular tennis shoes. I found some hard-soled Nike Trainers and they helped my balance.

My squatting has improved greatly after 2nd month and back pains are gone. Improving the mucles around your back will lead to a back that is less succeptable to injury(better support).

Ultimately, check with your othopaedist for your condition.

[Equalizing]

Originally Posted by Puddleglum

So I've had a slipped disc in the past, that caused real bad sciatica.

So instead of squats, I've been using a leg press machine.

Tried doing some squats today, and found that my balance is crap, and weirdly, kept ending rising on to toes instead of feet staying flat.

So looking for some advice please. Should I stay off squats, given back history? If not, how can I sort out this form issues?

Thanks

I'm a newbie, but I can share this with you.

I used to find that my balance was off when I did squat and yes, I'd have to fight off what seemed like a natural push forward onto my toes. I used to wear either my running shoes or my cross trainers while working out.

One day I forgot to bring either pair of shoes and was forced to work out in my fairly wide based trail shoes. I couldn't help but notice that my feet remained firmly planted on the ground and the balance issue was resolved.

I don't know if my anecdotal story is the exception, rather than the rule, but it sure solved my problem.

[tank316]

Originally Posted by Puddleglum

So I've had a slipped disc in the past, that caused real bad sciatica.

So instead of squats, I've been using a leg press machine.

Tried doing some squats today, and found that my balance is crap, and weirdly, kept ending rising on to toes instead of feet staying flat.

So looking for some advice please. Should I stay off squats, given back history? If not, how can I sort out this form issues?

Thanks

What other therapy/strengthening have you done for your back?
Did you try squatting with the bar, bar and weights?
As far as getting your form back. Try box squats with no weight, focusing on your form. DONT bounce off the box or touch and go. Squat down, settle on the box, keeping your feet planted, push through heals and squat up. Does that make sense.
Here's a link from another thread
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=120122121
scroll down and find the one with the girl doing them, perfect form. Just try them with no wt.

[Puddleglum]

Other strengthening\therapy - pilates and swiss ball stuff for core. Happy to take advice on anything else that I should be doing.

Tried with bar and very light weights.

Box squats? As in squatting to a sitting position onto a box?

[Puddleglum]

Originally Posted by Equalizing

I couldn't help but notice that my feet remained firmly planted on the ground and the balance issue was resolved.

Will bear this in mind. Thanks.

[Puddleglum]

Originally Posted by gotabyte

My squatting has improved greatly after 2nd month and back pains are gone. Improving the mucles around your back will lead to a back that is less succeptable to injury

Yeah, definitely, which is why I'm wanting to do 'em

[Puddleglum]

Originally Posted by tank316

Here's a link from another thread
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=120122121
scroll down and find the one with the girl doing them, perfect form. Just try them with no wt.

Nice one. Thanks

[tank316]

Originally Posted by Puddleglum

Other strengthening\therapy - pilates and swiss ball stuff for core. Happy to take advice on anything else that I should be doing.

Tried with bar and very light weights.

Box squats? As in squatting to a sitting position onto a box?

Correct.
It sounds like your balance will come through more practice.
I would go with no weights till you have your form/balance back in check.

[FlexinMike]

I have extensive degenerative disk issues. I have found that with increased flexibility and warm ups that my back has improved(pain and mobility wise at least)the last couple years since really hitting my lower back with multiple exercises including squats. I used to have pain daily and many days could not walk straight up and down. Since hitting the weigth room hard the last few years it has made a world of difference.

[tank316]

I've been very lucky back wise, I have had close calls before. But with the age thing, I have increased my stretching greatly. Anything to give father time a kick in the ass,LOL

[bigvin73]

Try squating on the smith maching it will allow you to work form and angles that will allow you to find positions to decrease pain. I realize a lot of people will rant about the smith machine but until you get form down its much safer. The other thing I have seen and tried is leg width Being tall I have to go out a little wider to allow my legs the room to move without driving myself too far forward. Squating is more about getting the form right then the actual weight at first if done wrong a ton of things can go wrong so work the form like they said till you are comfortable before trying weight.

[ironwill2008]

Originally Posted by Puddleglum

So I've had a slipped disc in the past, that caused real bad sciatica.

So looking for some advice please. Should I stay off squats, given back history? If not, how can I sort out this form issues?

Before I'd advise you on squat form, what does your doc say about doing them at all?

[gbg]

I would focus on strengthening your posterior chain with reverse hypers or hyper ext, I like reverses hypers for spinal integrity it opens up the disk which can be good especially after loading it with squats.
Also start light don't do a crazy number of reps increase your sets if you want a lot of reps.
I have a herniation and what I have described has worked very well for me.

[Puddleglum]

Originally Posted by ironwill2008

Before I'd advise you on squat form, what does your doc say about doing them at all?

NHS. My GP has less of a clue about herniated disc \ sciatica than I do. To see someone who does, I'd need referring to a specialist - about 3-6 months. But you can't do that unless you're in need i.e. not just to ask questions. Hence polling thoughts here

I reckon that so long as I start out easy, and develop good form, it will be okay. And as others have said, the improvement in strength should help support spine.

[ironwill2008]

Originally Posted by Puddleglum

NHS. My GP has less of a clue about herniated disc \ sciatica than I do. To see someone who does, I'd need referring to a specialist - about 3-6 months. But you can't do that unless you're in need i.e. not just to ask questions. Hence polling thoughts here

I reckon that so long as I start out easy, and develop good form, it will be okay. And as others have said, the improvement in strength should help support spine.

Understood. Here's the very best online resource I know of to help you learn how to squat properly. It will take you a while to get throught all the vids, but I'd strongly recommend you do so. Best of luck. Take it slow.


http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...rch_type=&aq=f

[Puddleglum]

Excellent. Thanks.

[gbg]

Originally Posted by Puddleglum

So I've had a slipped disc in the past, that caused real bad sciatica.

So instead of squats, I've been using a leg press machine.

Tried doing some squats today, and found that my balance is crap, and weirdly, kept ending rising on to toes instead of feet staying flat.

So looking for some advice please. Should I stay off squats, given back history? If not, how can I sort out this form issues?

Thanks

If you find yourself leaning forward when squatting it's usually because your hamstrings,glutes and hips aren't strong enough to perform the movement.
Those are the primary muscles used when squatting not your quads.

Work on strengthening those areas, as someone mentioned box squats are a great way to do that.

[zjpj]

I'm in the same boat! I just went to the doctor today - probable disc herniation from a deadlift. Very sad and painful and hope I can find some way to recover but not sure what to do?!

[GnomusMaximus]

I can't address your back issue but my experience is that 9 times out of ten balance is a question of head placement. Most people tend to look down and that is what pulls them forward. This may sound like an odd question, but what do you see when you squat?

[christos_swc]

Pay attention to your body.
You may be able to lift a weight with ease for reps but still feel some discomfort from your joints, tendons or ligaments.
Your muscles may have strength your frame isn't used to handling.
So stick with a weight until your whole body gets used to it before you move on.
I'm currently benching for 15 reps and way short of failure, but I feel some discomfort, I just got back to the gym after a long time.
The temptation to pile on the weight is there but I will take my time and let my body tell me when it's ready to go heavier.
I don't think you should worry about injury too much because the signs of injury will be there before it happens.
You should worry about ignoring them, it's easy to get carried away because you really want to do an exercise even though your body tells you not to at some point.
Needless to stay you should study good form with a weight you can handle with ease, it's all over the internet, shouldn't be too hard to learn to do the exercise correctly.
Just have to be patient before you start pressing on.

[Puddleglum]

Originally Posted by zjpj

I'm in the same boat! I just went to the doctor today - probable disc herniation from a deadlift. Very sad and painful and hope I can find some way to recover but not sure what to do?!

I suffered badly for 3 years, whilst being messed about by UK NHS. Their approach was to dope me up - codeine, paracetamol and ibuprofen and gabapentin (an epilepsy drug) all at max dosage. This was whilst waiting to see specialists, get x-rayed and eventually an MRI scan. All of which meant I was off my head for about 18 months (but hey, didn't feel a thing), and the only progress was to get to the point where MRI confirmed herniated disc (no sh!t sherlock).

During that time I tried TENS (worked for a while), chiropracty (expensive waste of money, but foxy lady) and osteo (very expensive waste of money and a creepy guy to boot).

In the end I used company private health insurance to see private specialist. 4 weeks later, I'd had an epidural of anti-inflammatory and pain killer. And that did the trick - was pain free 24 hours later.

I've been pretty much pain free now for 2 years since that epidural. I get occasional sciatica, but nothing a single ibuprofen doesn't handle. Recently saw a physio, who reckons the remaining sciatica is caused by the nerve not being mobile in it's sheath - so have exercises to mobilise it.

Maybe something helpful from my experiences...

[ctgblue]

Originally Posted by gbg

If you find yourself leaning forward when squatting it's usually because your hamstrings,glutes and hips aren't strong enough to perform the movement.
Those are the primary muscles used when squatting not your quads.

Work on strengthening those areas, as someone mentioned box squats are a great way to do that.

Another reason is that you probably have the bar way up on top of the traps, pushing the weigh out over the toes, get the bar DOWN into the traps, it will move the weight back over the heels and help with the balance

[Xyphis]

If all of the above does not work and it becomes a reality that Squats/Deadlifts are not for you and your back, perhaps Dumbbell Step-Ups can be a partial replacement, or at least a bridging exercise as your back heals.

It has advantages to your situation:

-Similar (I know, not exact) muscle usage
-Single Leg exercise, so less total load to body as weights will be less
-Dumbbells, so no DIRECT spinal load.
-Less Lumbar flexion (Likely even less than lunges)
-Still uses abdominal and erector muscles as STABILIZERS, which would be good for your back rehabilitation.

Heck, just looking at this list makes me want to switch out from Squats to this in my next workout rotation

Good luck in whatever you chose, and I hope your back gets better soon.

[Puddleglum]

Originally Posted by Xyphis

If all of the above does not work and it becomes a reality that Squats/Deadlifts are not for you and your back, perhaps Dumbbell Step-Ups can be a partial replacement, or at least a bridging exercise as your back heals.

Good call

[Puddleglum]

Okay, so today squats have gone really well, due to all the help with technique. Good arch to back, deep in the hole, totally exhausting

Very light weights at present while I nail the form every time, and figure a slow build to ease my back into it.

Thanks.

[UncleSpam81st]

maybe try some 5lb plates under your toes or go smaller and it will keep your heals planted firmly down so your mind can focus on the lift up.

[gbg]

Originally Posted by UncleSpam81st

maybe try some 5lb plates under your toes or go smaller and it will keep your heals planted firmly down so your mind can focus on the lift up.

IMO this will only form bad habits.