whos ready for a 235 division - Page 2

Tank87 · 11-02-2009, 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragger

The 205 div is overflowing as is, the belt has changed hands 5 or 6 times in the past 2 1/2 years. Why? Because it's full of fighters that are too small to fight 265 pounders but too big to cut to 185.

And yeah, a 245 to 265(or unlimited) division is going to be lean and have very few fighters... because there's not that many athletes that weight 265 pounds, especially with the interest to dedicate their lives to MMA. That's just how it is.

So if the 205 weight division is over flooded dnt u think a 225 weight division would help. I mean from my prospective if I was to fight, id cut the 20 pounds from what I weigh now to 205 rather then staying at my weight and trying to gain more weight witch is ****ing near impossible for me because of my training. There r probaly a lot of fighters out there that would feel comftirable at 225 but dnt want to go up against the bigger guys that weigh 265 plus so they cut to 205. A division like 225 would help with getting rid of the overflow in the 205 weight class.

Starwars69 · 11-02-2009, 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord_Lemon

You're contradicting yourself. You are saying he trains as hard as anyone, serious and dedicated to MMA which is what seperates him from the others but then basically say he's only winning because of his weight advantage.

You don't make any sense.

If Nate Marquardt was allowed to compete at LW at his current weight, would he win all his fights on skill alone?

beaucephus · 11-02-2009, 11:01 AM

I can easily walk around under 18% BF at 290lbs and if there was a 235lb division, I'd be all over it.

Making a 235lb division will all but eliminate the 236-285lb class (assuming they'd raise the max 20lbs to compensate) as very few human beings can't cut to 235lbs.

i don't see there being any talent left in the 236-285 division if this went into affect, I don't, however, see it having any affect on the 205 (LHW) division.

Dragger · 11-02-2009, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tank87

So if the 205 weight division is over flooded dnt u think a 225 weight division would help. I mean from my prospective if I was to fight, id cut the 20 pounds from what I weigh now to 205 rather then staying at my weight and trying to gain more weight witch is ****ing near impossible for me because of my training. There r probaly a lot of fighters out there that would feel comftirable at 225 but dnt want to go up against the bigger guys that weigh 265 plus so they cut to 205. A division like 225 would help with getting rid of the overflow in the 205 weight class.

That's what I'm saying...

Dragger · 11-02-2009, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by homerunrbi

Not enough fighters to entertain that weight class. You would see them cutting to lhw or bulking to shw to often. I do agree tho some guys like crocop, randy, ... should all cut to lhw.

Not enough? Look at how stacked the LHW div already is because their's too much of a gap between LHW and HW, 60 pounds!

So you want to add all HW under 240 pounds to the LHW div? Would that further make LHW over flowed and HW even weaker?

Like I said earlier, the LHW belt has changed hands 5, almost 6 times among 6 different fighters in 2 1/2 years. LHW is already the most stack div in UFC and HW is already their weakest.

And how does a late 20's/early 30's MMA fighter bulk on an additional 40 pounds in the middle of his MMA career without roiding up?

british-beef · 11-02-2009, 08:28 PM

Should just make HW an open division like it used to be.

Would be nice to see carwin and brock ****ing their pants when standing face to face with some 7ft 300+lb monster

HardGainer82 · 11-02-2009, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by british-beef

Should just make HW an open division like it used to be.

Would be nice to see carwin and brock ****ing their pants when standing face to face with some 7ft 300+lb monster

lol like who? Choi?

Gomi · 11-02-2009, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by homerunrbi

Not enough fighters to entertain that weight class. You would see them cutting to lhw or bulking to shw to often. I do agree tho some guys like crocop, randy, ... should all cut to lhw.

crocop would never cut weight, since he's a natural HW.....besides, he's about to officially retire if he hasnt already.

dont see the point of cutting weight a weight class lower if you've been a natural HW all your life

HardGainer82 · 11-02-2009, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gomi

crocop would never cut weight, since he's a natural HW.....besides, he's about to officially retire if he hasnt already.

dont see the point of cutting weight a weight class lower if you've been a natural HW all your life

Because to some people that's the answer to everything.

Zoupa · 11-03-2009, 07:54 AM

there aren't enough HW fighters. that's why a LHW won the last heavyweight TUF and why this season of TUF sucks so much.

Lord_Lemon · 11-03-2009, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Starwars69

If Nate Marquardt was allowed to compete at LW at his current weight, would he win all his fights on skill alone?

I love how all the sudden ppl are up in arms about the weight difference @ HW sense Brock is champ. I didn't hear any outcries of unfairness when Fedor was fighting SHW's. If he lost it would be due to the weight disadvantage. Oh, he beat them so it's all good right?

Alot (not all) of Fedor fans are major hypocrites.

Dragger · 11-03-2009, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord_Lemon

I love how all the sudden ppl are up in arms about the weight difference @ HW sense Brock is champ. I didn't hear any outcries of unfairness when Fedor was fighting SHW's. If he lost it would be due to the weight disadvantage. Oh, he beat them so it's all good right?

Alot (not all) of Fedor fans are major hypocrites.

Are you that new here? It's been brought up before lesnar came to UFC, hell, I brought it up years ago:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragger

The current Heavyweight division is too broad.

Heavyweight should be 206-235, then Superheavyweight 236-265.

Anyone 266 or up is too Sylvish/slow and/or fat and slugish.

That was back in 2007, Post #27, see for yourself:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...&highlight=265

Lord_Lemon · 11-03-2009, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragger

Are you that new here? It's been brought up before lesnar came to UFC, hell, I brought it up years ago:

That was back in 2007, Post #27, see for yourself:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...&highlight=265

I'm talking about in general. There has never been this much of an outcry before.

Dragger · 11-03-2009, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord_Lemon

I'm talking about in general. There has never been this much of an outcry before.

It's been brought up before, it's not like all the sudden people are up in arms about the 60 pound weight difference in HW just because Brock is champ.

The 60 pound spread and critisism of such is nothing new.

HardGainer82 · 11-03-2009, 11:36 AM

People were making the same complaints when Sylvia was champ and everyone claimed he was only winning by his size (somewhat legit complaint in the later years).

Dragger · 11-03-2009, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HardGainer82

People were making the same complaints when Sylvia was champ and everyone claimed he was only winning by his size (somewhat legit complaint in the later years).

This

Lord_Lemon · 11-03-2009, 11:58 AM

Sylvia was getting flack because he was just using his size to LnP a win which was a legitimate criticism. Maybe there were some people back then calling for the HW division to be divided because of him, but I don't remember any.

Dragger · 11-03-2009, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord_Lemon

Sylvia was getting flack because he was just using his size to LnP a win which was a legitimate criticism.

Sylvia never LnP(Lay and Pray) to win, he wasn't a wrestler he was a striker. Initially he was a pretty good striker(17 KO's?). After getting the belt back he started to use his reach to tap from distance for points instead of fighting. THAT'S what he was critisized for.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord_Lemon

Maybe there were some people back then calling for the HW division to be divided because of him, but I don't remember any.

How new are you to MMA?

And I don't recall him being the only reason people were bringing up the HW div to be cut in half, it's mostly because:

LW 9 pound spread
WW 14 pound spread
MW 14 pound spread
LHW 19 pound spread
HW 59 pound spread!!! [WTF?!?!]

2kool4skool · 11-03-2009, 01:05 PM

I'll ask again, why is MMA so different from boxing and amateur wrestling, where the spread between HW and the next weight class is just as disproportionate compared to other weight classes(more so in boxing)?

Comparing a 185'er fighting at LW is nothing like a 30 pound difference at HW. As you move up in weight, each pound becomes less significant.

The best HW in the world for the past 6 years has been an undersized HW who has used his explosive power to dominate slower opponents. There is just as much advantage to being light and quick as there is to being big and strong at HW.

The problem is when you have a guy like Mir who is smaller but not very athletic either. And that's just a difference in athletic ability. Just as Brock is one of the biggest heavyweights and one of the quickest/most explosive, GSP is one of the biggest WW's and easily the quickest and most explosive. I would say GSP beating Penn had just as much to do with physical superiority as Lesnar beating Mir.

If Brock fought a guy who he outweighed by 40 pounds but had a significant athletic disadvantage against, he'd be in big trouble. Problem is, this person just doesn't exist because Lesnar's a genetic freak. But a guy like Sylvia who was just big was quickly dispatched of once he faced more athletic opponents.

Normot · 11-03-2009, 02:36 PM

If wrestling, Judo, and Boxing don't have any extra weight class, MMA doesn't need one either.

HardGainer82 · 11-03-2009, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Normot

If wrestling, Judo, and Boxing don't have any extra weight class, MMA doesn't need one either.

wat

Normot · 11-03-2009, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HardGainer82

wat

Meaning nothing between 200 and unlimited.

ira_est_a_donum · 11-03-2009, 05:44 PM

a lot of HWs who are around 225-245 should lean up as much as possible and drop a little muscle mass if needed and cut 20-25 msx lbs to be a force in the LHW division... if i was at kimbos or franks weight i would do just that... who wants to fight a guy who doesnt get depleted from a weight cut or anything and still outweights you by 20-30-40 lbs (or even worse a guy who cuts to make the HW weight limit and comes in even heavier...

Dragger · 11-03-2009, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ira_est_a_donum

a lot of HWs who are around 225-245 should lean up as much as possible and drop a little muscle mass if needed and cut 20-25 msx lbs to be a force in the LHW division... if i was at kimbos or franks weight i would do just that... who wants to fight a guy who doesnt get depleted from a weight cut or anything and still outweights you by 20-30-40 lbs (or even worse a guy who cuts to make the HW weight limit and comes in even heavier...

Problem is LHW is already over flowing with talent, it's the most stacked div in UFC. While HW is already the leanest div in UFC.

This would make it worse.